Windows 10 experience

Hi all,

Yesterday I upgraded my pc to W10. It was quite easy, easier than I
expected. But it was a devastating experience. Many of my applications
did not run on W10. The same for Classic Shell. And it looks so cheap.
W7 looks so much better.
I did not know how fast to place back an image of W7. Happily running W7
again.

Fokke

"Fokke Nauta" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Yesterday I upgraded my pc to W10. It was quite easy, easier than I
expected. But it was a devastating experience. Many of my applications did
not run on W10. The same for Classic Shell. And it looks so cheap. W7
looks so much better.
I did not know how fast to place back an image of W7. Happily running W7
again.

Fokke

I didn't have that same experience, although Win10 is quite different. I'm
yet to find an app that won't run on Win10 x64 that did run on Win7 x64; not
saying there aren't any, just that all of my older ones run well.

Classic Shell DOES run run on Win10. I have it on both of my machines. You
have to get the newest version, of course.

As with Win7 and Win8, there are plenty of tweaks and 3rd-party programs to
make it look the way you'd like it. I think very few people run any OS
natively out of the box without customizing it some, and Win10 is no
different.
--

SC Tom

SC Tom wrote:


"Fokke Nauta" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Yesterday I upgraded my pc to W10. It was quite easy, easier than I
expected. But it was a devastating experience. Many of my applications
did not run on W10. The same for Classic Shell. And it looks so cheap.
W7 looks so much better.
I did not know how fast to place back an image of W7. Happily running
W7 again.

Fokke

I didn't have that same experience, although Win10 is quite different.
I'm yet to find an app that won't run on Win10 x64 that did run on Win7
x64; not saying there aren't any, just that all of my older ones run well.

Classic Shell DOES run run on Win10. I have it on both of my machines.
You have to get the newest version, of course.

As with Win7 and Win8, there are plenty of tweaks and 3rd-party programs
to make it look the way you'd like it. I think very few people run any
OS natively out of the box without customizing it some, and Win10 is no
different.

With the caveat, that the OS installer is triggered for
many of the cumulative updates. The ones where Windows Update
later has no apparent record of what happened.

After one of those, certain of your customizations can be
reset to the system default. The Win10 OS has poor "persistence"
of user settings.

I'm sure that properly installed add-ons, they have a start item at
boot, which goes in and refreshes anything the program might need.
For programs like that, you might not notice a problem. It's the
trivial things, like the "screen blanker set to 10 minutes by default",
that keep coming back and coming back.

I think I've already related the story, where I attempted to use
the "Power" troubleshooter, to fix the hibernate on the machine.
I wanted to see if the machine could enable Hibernate for me,
without me lifting a finger. Now, troubleshooters don't generally
give you a detailed description of what they're doing. So, I
run the Power troubleshooter. And after the run, Hibernate
has not been touched, and is not enabled. But the G.D. troubleshooter
prints on the screen "we noticed your screen blanker was set to
2 hours, which is too long, so we set if back to 10 minutes for
you". *That* should give you some idea what Microsoft thinks
of your attempts to use any controls in the OS for your own
purposes. "We think what you've done is horrible and
wrong, and to prove it, now it's 10 minutes again,
the way myself and the rest of the staff at Microsoft
like it."

So yes, customize away. But don't be surprised if a
customization disappears. Keep copious notes (at least
at first), to avoid having to repeat any research
work on the settings.

Paul

"Paul" wrote in message
...
SC Tom wrote:


"Fokke Nauta" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Yesterday I upgraded my pc to W10. It was quite easy, easier than I
expected. But it was a devastating experience. Many of my applications
did not run on W10. The same for Classic Shell. And it looks so cheap.
W7 looks so much better.
I did not know how fast to place back an image of W7. Happily running W7
again.

Fokke

I didn't have that same experience, although Win10 is quite different.
I'm yet to find an app that won't run on Win10 x64 that did run on Win7
x64; not saying there aren't any, just that all of my older ones run
well.

Classic Shell DOES run run on Win10. I have it on both of my machines.
You have to get the newest version, of course.

As with Win7 and Win8, there are plenty of tweaks and 3rd-party programs
to make it look the way you'd like it. I think very few people run any OS
natively out of the box without customizing it some, and Win10 is no
different.

With the caveat, that the OS installer is triggered for
many of the cumulative updates. The ones where Windows Update
later has no apparent record of what happened.

After one of those, certain of your customizations can be
reset to the system default. The Win10 OS has poor "persistence"
of user settings.

Paul, is there any reason that disabling Windows Update in services.msc
won't fix that?

dadiOH wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
...
SC Tom wrote:

"Fokke Nauta" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Yesterday I upgraded my pc to W10. It was quite easy, easier than I
expected. But it was a devastating experience. Many of my applications
did not run on W10. The same for Classic Shell. And it looks so cheap.
W7 looks so much better.
I did not know how fast to place back an image of W7. Happily running W7
again.

Fokke
I didn't have that same experience, although Win10 is quite different.
I'm yet to find an app that won't run on Win10 x64 that did run on Win7
x64; not saying there aren't any, just that all of my older ones run
well.

Classic Shell DOES run run on Win10. I have it on both of my machines.
You have to get the newest version, of course.

As with Win7 and Win8, there are plenty of tweaks and 3rd-party programs
to make it look the way you'd like it. I think very few people run any OS
natively out of the box without customizing it some, and Win10 is no
different.
With the caveat, that the OS installer is triggered for
many of the cumulative updates. The ones where Windows Update
later has no apparent record of what happened.

After one of those, certain of your customizations can be
reset to the system default. The Win10 OS has poor "persistence"
of user settings.

Paul, is there any reason that disabling Windows Update in services.msc
won't fix that?

I think somebody has done that, but I've not tried.

In addition to a plain jane wuauserv (as in other OSes),
the OS also has USOSVC.

Startup type : Windows Service
Service Name : UsoSvc
Display Name : Update Orchestrator Service
Dll path : C:\Windows\system32\usocore.dll
Image path : C:\Windows\system32\svchost.exe -k netsvcs
Current Status : Manual/Running

It works in partnership with Task Scheduler. Like a
malware, the Task Scheduler launches usosvc at regular
intervals. Potentially, if something was amiss with
wuauserv, they could fire off a troubleshooter and
restore the missing file (modern DISM can repair
computers by fetching the necessary file from
Microsoft - you don't need to insert the DVD
for the OS to obtain a missing file).

It would really depend on how defensively the
wuauserv/usosvc/Task Scheduler setup works, as
to how easy it is to defeat. Some features
on Win10, already look like malware, in terms
of technique. For example, if you load up the
HOSTS file with anti-Microsoft entries, that is
ignored. If you disable DNS, the OS has hard
coded IP addresses for emergency usage. So some
degree of effort has been put into infrastructure
in the OS. You cannot assume any naive approach
will work the first time...

The Metered NIC hack might be as good as any
defense against Windows Update.

Normally, Wifi networks support a registry
setting declaring the connection "metered".
It's for people who pay a lot of money for
a couple GB of data transfer per month. It
turns out the same registry entry can be
added to a wired NIC, causing the OS to pause
and think, before downloading updates. If a
"zero cost" NIC is available, the OS will use it.

The OS could also have "call home" logic for
activation. While your OS may list itself as
"Activated" and have no expiry date (unlike the
Insider editions), it's still possible
the OS will throw a wobbly if disconnected
from the Internet for too long. We just
don't know what the policy is at the
moment. That's the thing about temporal
policies - they're hard to test. The OS has
the notion of "valid current time" versus
just "time", so when it times stuff, if your
clock is not trustworthy, the OS knows. Presumably
it accepts a Network Time Protocol update from
a trusted source (time.microsoft.com) as proof
of the current date and time. In the interim, it
could even track elapsed time, as an approximation,
if the owner is setting the clock back.

Paul

On 19/07/2016 12:37, SC Tom wrote:


"Fokke Nauta" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Yesterday I upgraded my pc to W10. It was quite easy, easier than I
expected. But it was a devastating experience. Many of my applications
did not run on W10. The same for Classic Shell. And it looks so cheap.
W7 looks so much better.
I did not know how fast to place back an image of W7. Happily running
W7 again.

Fokke

I didn't have that same experience, although Win10 is quite different.
I'm yet to find an app that won't run on Win10 x64 that did run on Win7
x64; not saying there aren't any, just that all of my older ones run well.

Strange.
Many of my old applications didn't run.


Classic Shell DOES run run on Win10. I have it on both of my machines.
You have to get the newest version, of course.

That's what I thought as well. I had W10 running in a virtual machine
(VWMare) and Classic Shell was OK on that. But not on my recent W10
update. It was very conciderated. Many applications did not run, under
which Classic Shell. Wrong update, perhaps?

As with Win7 and Win8, there are plenty of tweaks and 3rd-party programs
to make it look the way you'd like it.

Yes, I know. And when I will go over to W10 I will use them. But I
haven't found anything yet that changes the looks of W10 to W7.

I think very few people run any
OS natively out of the box without customizing it some, and Win10 is no
different.

Ofcourse, I have tuned W7 as well.

On 19/07/2016 18:11, Paul wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
...
SC Tom wrote:

"Fokke Nauta" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Yesterday I upgraded my pc to W10. It was quite easy, easier than I
expected. But it was a devastating experience. Many of my
applications did not run on W10. The same for Classic Shell. And it
looks so cheap. W7 looks so much better.
I did not know how fast to place back an image of W7. Happily
running W7 again.

Fokke
I didn't have that same experience, although Win10 is quite
different. I'm yet to find an app that won't run on Win10 x64 that
did run on Win7 x64; not saying there aren't any, just that all of
my older ones run well.

Classic Shell DOES run run on Win10. I have it on both of my
machines. You have to get the newest version, of course.

As with Win7 and Win8, there are plenty of tweaks and 3rd-party
programs to make it look the way you'd like it. I think very few
people run any OS natively out of the box without customizing it
some, and Win10 is no different.
With the caveat, that the OS installer is triggered for
many of the cumulative updates. The ones where Windows Update
later has no apparent record of what happened.

After one of those, certain of your customizations can be
reset to the system default. The Win10 OS has poor "persistence"
of user settings.

Paul, is there any reason that disabling Windows Update in
services.msc won't fix that?

I think somebody has done that, but I've not tried.

In addition to a plain jane wuauserv (as in other OSes),
the OS also has USOSVC.

Startup type : Windows Service
Service Name : UsoSvc
Display Name : Update Orchestrator Service
Dll path : C:\Windows\system32\usocore.dll
Image path : C:\Windows\system32\svchost.exe -k netsvcs
Current Status : Manual/Running

It works in partnership with Task Scheduler. Like a
malware, the Task Scheduler launches usosvc at regular
intervals. Potentially, if something was amiss with
wuauserv, they could fire off a troubleshooter and
restore the missing file (modern DISM can repair
computers by fetching the necessary file from
Microsoft - you don't need to insert the DVD
for the OS to obtain a missing file).

It would really depend on how defensively the
wuauserv/usosvc/Task Scheduler setup works, as
to how easy it is to defeat. Some features
on Win10, already look like malware, in terms
of technique. For example, if you load up the
HOSTS file with anti-Microsoft entries, that is
ignored. If you disable DNS, the OS has hard
coded IP addresses for emergency usage. So some
degree of effort has been put into infrastructure
in the OS. You cannot assume any naive approach
will work the first time...

The Metered NIC hack might be as good as any
defense against Windows Update.

Normally, Wifi networks support a registry
setting declaring the connection "metered".
It's for people who pay a lot of money for
a couple GB of data transfer per month. It
turns out the same registry entry can be
added to a wired NIC, causing the OS to pause
and think, before downloading updates. If a
"zero cost" NIC is available, the OS will use it.

The OS could also have "call home" logic for
activation. While your OS may list itself as
"Activated" and have no expiry date (unlike the
Insider editions), it's still possible
the OS will throw a wobbly if disconnected
from the Internet for too long. We just
don't know what the policy is at the
moment. That's the thing about temporal
policies - they're hard to test. The OS has
the notion of "valid current time" versus
just "time", so when it times stuff, if your
clock is not trustworthy, the OS knows. Presumably
it accepts a Network Time Protocol update from
a trusted source (time.microsoft.com) as proof
of the current date and time. In the interim, it
could even track elapsed time, as an approximation,
if the owner is setting the clock back.

Paul


Thanks, Paul.

Anyway, I'm not so keen of W10. I have it running in VMWare just to get
the taste of it. I'd rather stick with W7 as long as possible.

Fokke

On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 21:59:02 +0200, Fokke Nauta
wrote:


But I haven't found anything yet that changes the looks of W10 to W7.

Perhaps it is time to install Start10 instead of Classic Shell. You do
get a 30-day trial period, after which it will cost you $5.

There is a picture of the desktop of one of my Windows 10 PCs at
http://i67.tinypic.com/29m29ft.jpg

The only difference between that picture and my previous Windows 7
desktop is the Start button icon on the top right corner.

"Monty" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 21:59:02 +0200, Fokke Nauta
wrote:


But I haven't found anything yet that changes the looks of W10 to W7.

Perhaps it is time to install Start10 instead of Classic Shell. You do
get a 30-day trial period, after which it will cost you $5.

There is a picture of the desktop of one of my Windows 10 PCs at
http://i67.tinypic.com/29m29ft.jpg

The only difference between that picture and my previous Windows 7
desktop is the Start button icon on the top right corner.


I use StartIsBack, ($2.99 for 1 PC, $4.99 for 2)
http://www.startisback.com/#buy-tab
I do have Classic Shell installed for the Classic Explorer toolbar is all.

Here's what my Start menu looks like:
http://tinypic.com/m/ja97hf/3

But I don't keep my desktop quite as busy as you do :-)
http://tinypic.com/m/ja97hj/3

No particular reason; just like a clean desktop. Must be the Sheldon Cooper
in me, LOL! I've had it pretty much that way from Win95 to the present.
--

SC Tom

On 20/07/2016 06:30, Monty wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 21:59:02 +0200, Fokke Nauta
wrote:


But I haven't found anything yet that changes the looks of W10 to W7.

Perhaps it is time to install Start10 instead of Classic Shell. You do
get a 30-day trial period, after which it will cost you $5.

There is a picture of the desktop of one of my Windows 10 PCs at
http://i67.tinypic.com/29m29ft.jpg

The only difference between that picture and my previous Windows 7
desktop is the Start button icon on the top right corner.


I know Start10, I have it installed in a virtual W10 system. I prefer
Classic Shell.

On 19/07/2016 11:59, Fokke Nauta wrote:
Hi all,

Yesterday I upgraded my pc to W10. It was quite easy, easier than I
expected. But it was a devastating experience. Many of my applications
did not run on W10. The same for Classic Shell. And it looks so cheap.
W7 looks so much better.
I did not know how fast to place back an image of W7. Happily running W7
again.

Fokke

Whatever went wrong, I don't know. But my W10 machine was a disaster.
Many applications did not run.
Second problem: Another pc upgraded with W10 did not run anymore. It
boots and then there is a black screen. It stays there. So also put an
W7 image back.
I don't think I will make an effort to upgrade more of my pc's to W10.

Fokke

On 19/07/2016 10:59, Fokke Nauta wrote:
Hi all,

Yesterday I upgraded my pc to W10. It was quite easy, easier than I
expected. But it was a devastating experience. Many of my applications
did not run on W10. The same for Classic Shell. And it looks so cheap.
W7 looks so much better.
I did not know how fast to place back an image of W7. Happily running
W7 again.

Fokke

To get the best experience of Windows 10 is by installing it cleanly.
this simply means that you wipe your HD and delete all your hidden
partitions and install Windows 10 from a Media. The Media Creation Tool
is available from Microsoft Website and it can install on your machine
with your Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 serial number. If your machine came with
Windows 8 or 8.1 then you won't even need any serial number as it is
already in your Bios and Microsoft Installation program can make use of it.

I have installed 10 on 64 machines so far and none of them had any
problems. In fact all machines are running better than they were on
Windows 8 or 8.1.

--

If you want to filter all of my posts then please read this article:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/organize-your-messages-using-filters
In step 7 select "Delete"

With over 350 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

Good Guy wrote:


To get the best experience of Windows 10 is by installing it cleanly.

There are recorded cases of the Start menu
not working after doing that.

And there is no indication why that was
happening. Whether it was related to local account
versus MSA, or some other causative factor. I don't
even know if that is fixed yet.

Even a clean install, comes with no guarantees of "purity".

Some software can have race conditions, where two processes
complete out of order, and the software design lacks
a synchronization primitive to prevent trouble. I'm
surprised there aren't more problems in Win10, which
tells you they did a pretty good job with synchronization
primitives. For example, I can start an Upgrade install
while Windows Update is running in the background
(trying to do an Upgrade install too), and to date,
it's never screwed up.

Paul

On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 22:23:27 +0200, Fokke Nauta
wrote:


I know Start10, I have it installed in a virtual W10 system. I prefer
Classic Shell.


Interesting. That's the first time I've heard from someone who prefers
Classic Shell.

I like them both, but I think Start10 is better.

On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 21:36:55 +0100, Good Guy
wrote:

To get the best experience of Windows 10 is by installing it cleanly.



That's not me experience at all. I've had very good results with
upgrading.

Unlike with previous versions of Windows, when doing an upgrade was
often a mistake, an upgrade to Windows XP or later replaces almost
everything, and usually works very well.

The only real exception is when you are having problems; in that
situation, an upgrade often worsens problems, rather than solving
them.

My recommendation is to at least try the upgrade, since it's much
easier than a clean installation. You can always change your mind and
reinstall cleanly if problems develop.

However, don't assume that doing an upgrade relieves you of the need
to backup your data, etc. before beginning. Before starting to
upgrade, it's always prudent to recognize that things like a sudden
power loss can occur in the middle of it and cause the loss of
everything. For that reason you should make sure you have backups and
anything else you need to reinstall if the worst happens.