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M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 12th 19, 03:19 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,151
Default M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall

or I lose my license.

Am I being bamboozled?

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  #2  
Old February 12th 19, 03:26 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,730
Default M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall

In article , wrote:

or I lose my license.


win10 uses entitlements, so not an issue.
  #3  
Old February 12th 19, 03:31 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,151
Default M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall

On 2/11/19 6:19 PM, T wrote:
or I lose my license.

Am I being bamboozled?


They are telling me since it was a free upgrade from
Windows 8.1 and I wiped my hard drive when going
from 1803 to 1809 that I lost my rights

  #4  
Old February 12th 19, 04:02 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,470
Default M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall

T wrote:
On 2/11/19 6:19 PM, T wrote:
or I lose my license.

Am I being bamboozled?


They are telling me since it was a free upgrade from
Windows 8.1 and I wiped my hard drive when going
from 1803 to 1809 that I lost my rights


Not as I understand it.

Did you change the installed hardware, such as
using a different motherboard ? That would cause
the hardware hash to change and your Digital
Entitlement could not be located on the license
server at MS.

When a system does a Free Upgrade by doing
an over-the-top Win7SP1 to Win10, you're allow
to then scrub the drive and do a Clean Install
of the same SKU of Win10. Win7SP1 Pro to Win10 Pro,
then Clean Install of Win10 Pro. The Digital Entitlement
generated during the 7-10 install, records the motherboard
MAC and other identifying serial numbers. The Clean
Install attempt, then sends in the same hardware hash,
proving it's the same machine, and that it should be
activated again. The original Win7 image doesn't have
to be present. The free upgrade license key, like
the bogus *3V66T key, isn't a real key, and cannot be
typed into any screens for activation purposes. Each
SKU (Home and Pro and...) has its own specific key
(8HVX7, 3V66T, ...).

If the Win7 install was Retail, and you moved it to another
machine, maybe they can see that at Microsoft on their
screen.

If you change the hardware, that can cause the activation
to fail on a Clean Install.

If all the machines in your house use the same MSA account,
it's supposed to make it easier for Microsoft Support to
handle cases where a Win7SP1 Pro OEM +Freebie user say, changes a
motherboard and expects it to be activated. Without the
MSA for tracking purposes, it's harder to prove what license
is involved and why it should be activated. Since no one
has posted an experience involving that sort of details,
there's no confirmation of any "generous" support behavior.

I had a WinXP install on a different motherboard work
for a System Builder OEM. The terms of the license
should not allow that, but it activated. There had not
been a lot of install attempts on that particular license.
Which really should not have made a difference, as OEM
isn't move-able. I got rid of my VIA motherboard, because
there was a problem with PCI bus behavior, so I got an
Intel chipset motherboard instead (with a different
NIC MAC value).

Paul
  #5  
Old February 12th 19, 04:10 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,151
Default M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall

On 2/11/19 7:02 PM, Paul wrote:
T wrote:
On 2/11/19 6:19 PM, T wrote:
or I lose my license.

Am I being bamboozled?


They are telling me since it was a free upgrade from
Windows 8.1 and I wiped my hard drive when going
from 1803 to 1809 that I lost my rights


Not as I understand it.

Did you change the installed hardware, such as
using a different motherboard ? That would cause
the hardware hash to change and your Digital
Entitlement could not be located on the license
server at MS.

When a system does a Free Upgrade by doing
an over-the-top Win7SP1 to Win10, you're allow
to then scrub the drive and do a Clean Install
of the same SKU of Win10. Win7SP1 Pro to Win10 Pro,
then Clean Install of Win10 Pro. The Digital Entitlement
generated during the 7-10 install, records the motherboard
MAC and other identifying serial numbers. The Clean
Install attempt, then sends in the same hardware hash,
proving it's the same machine, and that it should be
activated again. The original Win7 image doesn't have
to be present. The free upgrade license key, like
the bogus *3V66T key, isn't a real key, and cannot be
typed into any screens for activation purposes. Each
SKU (Home and Pro and...) has its own specific key
(8HVX7, 3V66T, ...).

If the Win7 install was Retail, and you moved it to another
machine, maybe they can see that at Microsoft on their
screen.

If you change the hardware, that can cause the activation
to fail on a Clean Install.

If all the machines in your house use the same MSA account,
it's supposed to make it easier for Microsoft Support to
handle cases where a Win7SP1 Pro OEM +Freebie user say, changes a
motherboard and expects it to be activated. Without the
MSA for tracking purposes, it's harder to prove what license
is involved and why it should be activated. Since no one
has posted an experience involving that sort of details,
there's no confirmation of any "generous" support behavior.

I had a WinXP install on a different motherboard work
for a System Builder OEM. The terms of the license
should not allow that, but it activated. There had not
been a lot of install attempts on that particular license.
Which really should not have made a difference, as OEM
isn't move-able. I got rid of my VIA motherboard, because
there was a problem with PCI bus behavior, so I got an
Intel chipset motherboard instead (with a different
NIC MAC value).

** Paul


It is a vm. The only that that changed was the USB flash drives.
I did a full wipe of the hard drive before upgrading from 1803 to 1809


  #6  
Old February 12th 19, 05:00 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
pjp[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,130
Default M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall

In article , lid says...

T wrote:
On 2/11/19 6:19 PM, T wrote:
or I lose my license.

Am I being bamboozled?


They are telling me since it was a free upgrade from
Windows 8.1 and I wiped my hard drive when going
from 1803 to 1809 that I lost my rights


Not as I understand it.

Did you change the installed hardware, such as
using a different motherboard ? That would cause
the hardware hash to change and your Digital
Entitlement could not be located on the license
server at MS.

When a system does a Free Upgrade by doing
an over-the-top Win7SP1 to Win10, you're allow
to then scrub the drive and do a Clean Install
of the same SKU of Win10. Win7SP1 Pro to Win10 Pro,
then Clean Install of Win10 Pro. The Digital Entitlement
generated during the 7-10 install, records the motherboard
MAC and other identifying serial numbers. The Clean
Install attempt, then sends in the same hardware hash,
proving it's the same machine, and that it should be
activated again. The original Win7 image doesn't have
to be present. The free upgrade license key, like
the bogus *3V66T key, isn't a real key, and cannot be
typed into any screens for activation purposes. Each
SKU (Home and Pro and...) has its own specific key
(8HVX7, 3V66T, ...).

If the Win7 install was Retail, and you moved it to another
machine, maybe they can see that at Microsoft on their
screen.

If you change the hardware, that can cause the activation
to fail on a Clean Install.

If all the machines in your house use the same MSA account,
it's supposed to make it easier for Microsoft Support to
handle cases where a Win7SP1 Pro OEM +Freebie user say, changes a
motherboard and expects it to be activated. Without the
MSA for tracking purposes, it's harder to prove what license
is involved and why it should be activated. Since no one


I have two Win7 pcs here I know I used the same key for and both are
activsated and work fine for long time now. I'm unsure if the activation
server is anything more than a dummy nowadays and allows pretty much
anything matches what it expects a key to look like.
  #7  
Old February 12th 19, 05:03 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
😉 Good Guy 😉
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 469
Default M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall

On 12/02/2019 02:19, T wrote:
or I lose my license.

Am I being bamboozled?


*No you are a liar and a very big rogue trader. Pure & Simple.*

*People like you should be locked away for good.*

--
With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

  #8  
Old February 12th 19, 06:12 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,470
Default M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall

T wrote:


It is a vm. The only that that changed was the USB flash drives.
I did a full wipe of the hard drive before upgrading from 1803 to 1809


Isn't there some sort of identifier inside the VM that
identifies the container ?

The key you used, should follow the container.

If you attach a second (empty) VHD and clone over
the install to the second VHD, then delete the first
VHD, I would expect trouble.

I've not been able to verify that by the way. It
was just a claim I saw, that said there was some
unique "thing" on the container used. The Guest
environment would otherwise be too insulated to
probe directly. (Does an emulated NIC have a
unique MAC ???)

*******

From inside a Win10 VM Guest I run... looking for unique numbers.

C:\WINDOWS\system32wmic diskdrive get *
Availability BytesPerSector Capabilities
512 {3, 4, 10}

CapabilityDescriptions
{"Random Access", "Supports Writing", "SMART Notification"}

Caption CompressionMethod ConfigManagerErrorCode ConfigManagerUserConfig
VBOX HARDDISK 0 FALSE

CreationClassName DefaultBlockSize Description DeviceID
Win32_DiskDrive Disk drive \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE0

ErrorCleared ErrorDescription ErrorMethodology FirmwareRevision
1.0

Index InstallDate InterfaceType LastErrorCode Manufacturer
0 IDE (Standard disk drives)

MaxBlockSize MaxMediaSize MediaLoaded MediaType
TRUE Fixed hard disk media

MinBlockSize Model Name NeedsCleaning
VBOX HARDDISK \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE0

NumberOfMediaSupported Partitions PNPDeviceID
2 SCSI\DISK&VEN_VBOX&PROD_HARDDISK\4&2617AEAE&0&0000 00 ===

PowerManagementCapabilities PowerManagementSupported SCSIBus SCSILogicalUnit
0 0

SCSIPort SCSITargetId SectorsPerTrack SerialNumber
0 0 63 VB6ac4a490-1911585e ===

Signature
2678489361 ===

Size Status StatusInfo SystemCreationClassName SystemName
68713989120 OK Win32_ComputerSystem MYMACHINE

TotalCylinders TotalHeads TotalSectors TotalTracks TracksPerCylinder
8354 255 134207010 2130270 255

There are at least three numbers that look interesting there.

And inside the VM, the emulated Intel Pro/1000 NIC MAC is different than the host.
08-00-27-1E-EB-F3

So then the question is, what happens to those if the VHD moves to
another machine ?

*******

Since I've never wasted a license key on a VM install,
I can't comment on how "cranky" they are.

*******

I hope you didn't throw away the VHD file.

Maybe what you could do, is "format" the VHD with something,
zero it out, then do a Clean Install and see if preserving the
VHD also manages to preserve the license.

*******

https://www.zdnet.com/article/window...n-same-system/

"...when you move an existing VMware-based VM from one computer to another.

The first time you try to run that VM, it detects that the VM was moved
and asks if you want to keep it associated with VMware's unique identifier
(known as the UUID) for that virtual machine, or if you want to create one.

According to VMware, if you create a new UUID, that will trigger a change
to the MAC address which in turn could awaken the licensing Gods at Microsoft.
"

OK, in VirtualBox works, I can look at "Windows 10.vbox" file
with Wordpad, as it's an XML file.

HardDisk uuid="{6ac4a490-5e2c-41d2-95ff-d3115e581119}" === SerialNumber value inside
location="D:/Windows10.vhd" format="VHD" type="Normal"/

So how does that number "outside the machine", get "inside the machine" ?
Looking at bcdedit inside the Windows 10 Guest, it would be
"too late to figure out" if that number is in there too.

The last digits of the "resumeobject" in BCDEDIT, match
the MAC address... 0800271eebf3} Reinstalling would just
copy the new value, if there was a new value. That still
doesn't explain how the Guest MAC address is derived.

You would have to experiment with your materials, to figure out
what "change", changes the hardware signature items. The Guest
MAC is way more important than the disk serial number (since
I change disks all the time with OSes on them, clone over and
so on, without anything tipping over). No hardware identifier is
completely innocuous - it takes multiple of the "small ones"
changing to upset activation. But in normal usage, changing
the motherboard is bound to blow things up (NIC MAC). The
motherboard also has a serial number, but some of those
can be flashed, so for Microsoft that would not be
a very good identifier. I suppose even a physical NIC MAC
isn't immune from that either (I had one motherboard where
the BIOS flasher had a couple command line options to
change the MAC on Eth and the MAC on Firewire).

Paul
  #9  
Old February 12th 19, 08:27 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Big Bad Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 767
Default M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall

On 02/11/19 18:19, T wrote:
or I lose my license.

Am I being bamboozled?


MS Chat - is that the old 'comic chat' or something else?
  #10  
Old February 12th 19, 09:05 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,151
Default M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall

Hi Paul,

When I wiped, I really wiped: copied /dev/zero
from dark to daylight.

-T

  #11  
Old February 12th 19, 09:06 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,151
Default M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall

On 2/11/19 11:27 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
On 02/11/19 18:19, T wrote:
or I lose my license.

Am I being bamboozled?


MS Chat - is that the old 'comic chat' or something else?


M$'s support is so, so bad it takes my breath away
  #12  
Old February 12th 19, 01:50 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,470
Default M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall

T wrote:
Hi Paul,

When I wiped, I really wiped: copied /dev/zero
from dark to daylight.

-T


When I do a diskpart "clean all" inside a VHD,
the first 128KB still appears to be non-zero.
The rest of it might have got zeroed (all the
chunks that were represented in the VHD got zeroed).

The header of the VHD file has the SerialNumber in it,
at offset 0x44. The serial number is in reverse byte
order, plus there's another four byte number that
I don't have a match on.

The .vbox XML file assigns a value to a particular
storage item. So that's an example of a number not
stored in the VHD itself. You can see some chatter
about that here.

https://superuser.com/questions/4729...ctivation-afte

Still can't find an article that matches your situation
exactly.

Paul
  #13  
Old February 13th 19, 12:03 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,151
Default M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall

On 2/11/19 6:19 PM, T wrote:
or I lose my license.

Am I being bamboozled?


Yup. I was. You can always tell when they refuse to escalate
an issue.

Well as it transpires and calling speaking to five more
Indians:

The license I see installed is a temporary installation key
and won't activate.

My actual license turned out to be a Beta license and M$ reneged
on upgrading it. I do remember filling out the forms and
what the hell...

W8 license upgrade to w10 gets/got deactivated after ANY hardware
change. As such is totally inadequate for my needs. And got
tossed out of the system years ago.

The full commercial/retail license can be reinstalled and transferred
and does not care so much about hardware changes. (M$ can release
any hardware change hold by calling them.)

Oh ya, there is no way around paying them again for another license.
And I really resent becoming part of their revenue stream when I
am reselling their ****.


 




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