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  #16  
Old May 14th 16, 07:34 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Tim[_8_]
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Posts: 141
Default 8.1 to 10 Question`

Keith Nuttle wrote in news:nh75pd$13ca$1
@gioia.aioe.org:

On 5/14/2016 6:20 AM, DMP wrote:
On 5/13/2016 8:15 PM, Drew wrote:



I find bootup and shutdown much faster, however, I am using a local
account with most of its enhancements that phone home turned off. I

have
never had the PC crash and the OS has run flawlessly. I don't think

the
upgrade was necessary and would have stayed with 8.1 but the price was
right.

D.

I have a fully updated Windows 8.1 computer. I upgraded to Windows 10
in the weeks after it came out, but reverted to Windows 8.1.

Now after many of the bugs have been worked out of Windows 10 I would
like to try again. As I understand there are two ways to upgrade. One
where Windows 10 installs over Windows 8.1, this would preserve all of
the current drivers on the computer.

The other option is a clean install.

If I go for a clean install, will the installer find the proper drivers
for my computer, or will I have to locate them all as part of the
installation and manually install them.

I want to spend the minimal time in upgrading.

If you are upgrading from 8.1 you do not want to do a clean install. If
you do, your Win10 will not authenticate, and you will be forced to
either revert or purchase a Win10 license.

As far as I know, the correct path is to upgrade 8.1 to 10, get it
authenicated, and then do a clean install of Win10 if that is what you
want. You will then need to contact Microsoft and tell them that you had
an authenticated version of Win10, but had to do a clean install. They
should be able to then authenticate your clean install. Google Win10
clean install for more info.
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  #17  
Old May 14th 16, 08:06 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Blake[_5_]
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Posts: 2,221
Default 8.1 to 10 Question`

On Sat, 14 May 2016 11:00:42 -0400, DMP wrote:


IMHO, t's always better to clean install with a new OS;




I strongly disagree. A clean installation (with all the effort of
installing all your applications, and configuring Windows and the
applications the way you want them) is much more work, and takes much
longer. And most of the time, upgrading works fine, without problems.
However, two points:

1. Upgrading usually works fine, but doesn't always, so before
starting the upgrade, you should always be prepared to redo the
installation cleanly if necessary; make sure that you have all the
data backups, application installation CDs, and anything else you need
for a clean installation.

2. The one time you should avoid upgrading and do a clean installation
instead is when you are having problems. Despite the hope and
expectation many people have that upgrading will solve the problems,
upgrading is more likely to worsen the problems than to solve them.

  #18  
Old May 14th 16, 08:47 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Good Guy[_2_]
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Posts: 3,354
Default 8.1 to 10 Question`

On 14/05/2016 19:34, Tim wrote:
If you are upgrading from 8.1 you do not want to do a clean install. If
you do, your Win10 will not authenticate, and you will be forced to
either revert or purchase a Win10 license.


This is not quite correct. If your Windws 8.1 is already stored in Bios
(Most OEMs shipping Windows 8/8.1 were required to store the serial
number in Bios) then it will activate without any problems. However,
even if the serial number is not stored in BIOS, it is still possible to
do a clean install. To do this, follow the online instructions at the
time of installation and choose the option to delete everything
including your files and windows will make sure it has all the necessary
info required to install Windows 10 and to activate it. I did this on a
Windows 7 machine where the serial number wasn't stored in the BIOS but
it was still possible to do the cean install.


As far as I know, the correct path is to upgrade 8.1 to 10, get it
authenicated, and then do a clean install of Win10 if that is what you
want. You will then need to contact Microsoft and tell them that you had
an authenticated version of Win10, but had to do a clean install. They
should be able to then authenticate your clean install. Google Win10
clean install for more info.


your info is a bit outdated so perhaps you need to try installing using
the latest Windows 10 (1511).



  #19  
Old May 15th 16, 01:27 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul
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Posts: 18,275
Default 8.1 to 10 Question`

pjp wrote:
In article , says...
Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 5/14/2016 6:20 AM, DMP wrote:
On 5/13/2016 8:15 PM, Drew wrote:
I find bootup and shutdown much faster, however, I am using a local
account with most of its enhancements that phone home turned off. I have
never had the PC crash and the OS has run flawlessly. I don't think the
upgrade was necessary and would have stayed with 8.1 but the price was
right.

D.
I have a fully updated Windows 8.1 computer. I upgraded to Windows 10
in the weeks after it came out, but reverted to Windows 8.1.

Now after many of the bugs have been worked out of Windows 10 I would
like to try again. As I understand there are two ways to upgrade. One
where Windows 10 installs over Windows 8.1, this would preserve all of
the current drivers on the computer.

The other option is a clean install.

If I go for a clean install, will the installer find the proper drivers
for my computer, or will I have to locate them all as part of the
installation and manually install them.

I want to spend the minimal time in upgrading.

I just installed Win10 here a couple hours ago
(test install), and I went to Device Manager
and asked it to "Update" the driver for a device
in there. It can search online for a driver.
It's only if it cannot find a driver, you
have to dredge for it yourself. For example,
no OS was able to find the driver for my
PCI Express parallel port card. So that will
be extra work, when I get around to it. The
OS is otherwise fully functional.

And the Win10 DVD did install the Basic Display Adapter
for my 7950 video card (a card with no Win10 driver).
That's the fallback driver, when no manufacturer driver
is available. An attempt to search for a driver, of
course it failed. The Win10 screen in this case, will
be staying at 1024x768, as that is all the
Basic Display Adapter offers for resolution.
Even if your screen is 1920x1080, it runs
at 1024x768 (ugly).


That's my problem with two different pcs more than capable of running
Win10 EXCEPT for video. One's a nVidia 6800 the other an ATI 4650.
Neither company appears to plan on providing any updated driver for
either video card.

I am NOT going to buy a new video card just for an OS, especially when
they run all the games I want to play just fine as is. I also don't want
to loose multi-monitor setup on one and a functioning composite TV-OUT
to a TV on the other. Both cases I assume would not work after upgrade.


This is a poor example, but it appears the OP in this
thread got support for just one display when the
Basic Display Adapter was in control. I really
need to find a desktop example.

http://superuser.com/questions/10072...onitors-broken

Paul
  #20  
Old May 15th 16, 08:22 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Big Bad Bob
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Posts: 793
Default 8.1 to 10

On 05/13/16 17:15, Drew so wittily quipped:
Curious and considering it.
Recent custom build with Intel core 17 4790, 16 gigs of ram, 256 gig
ssd for c:, 2tb drive for docs and such. Also using several externals
for backups and other storage.
On this type of system where 8.1 seems to run well and very fast. The
question is would win 10 be the same or better?

Currently running win 10 on 2 other machines that belong to the wife and
she likes it.

I understand people not wanting to lose win 7 and also for the "other"
generation that does not have the ability or want to change.


SERIOUSLY? "does not want to change" - that sounds very very very
arrogant of you. Oh, Nemesis... where ARE you?

looking to start a flame war but I have noticed that there has been a
huge drop off in posts on alt.comp.os.windows-8 since 10 came out.


that's because MOST of the shift to 10 comes from "Ape". They look so
much alike after all...


  #21  
Old May 15th 16, 08:24 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Big Bad Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 793
Default 8.1 to 10

On 05/13/16 18:25, Good Guy so wittily quipped:
On 14/05/2016 02:09, Ron wrote:

Not if you like using Windows Media Center.




What is Media Center? How do you use it in business to make profits?
Can a Tax/Accounting practise use it? what about employee
productivity? does it go up or down by using Media Center?


you really ARE an clueless asshole, aren't you?


Would you like a CLUEBAT applied to the seat of knowledge? Or how about
a CAT5-o-9-tails - I got some laying about, gladly will apply them as
needed. In PERSON even!


  #22  
Old May 15th 16, 08:26 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Big Bad Bob
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Posts: 793
Default 8.1 to 10

On 05/14/16 02:28, Ken Springer so wittily quipped:
On 5/13/16 6:58 PM, Paul wrote:
Do not rely on the "reversion" capability
of Win10 installations, to get back to the
Win8.1 qualifying OS. Tiny details will get
missed if you do that. If you make a backup
first, however, everything gets put back
the way you had it.


+1

I work 9 hr./wk at a PC shop, and we see people bringing in their
systems where the reversion from 10 to X has not gone well.


not surprised. even within the 30 days, sometimes it gets screwed up
[seen too many horror stories online already].

  #23  
Old May 15th 16, 08:29 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Big Bad Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 793
Default 8.1 to 10

On 05/13/16 21:31, Tim so wittily quipped:
Drew wrote in :

Curious and considering it.
Recent custom build with Intel core 17 4790, 16 gigs of ram, 256 gig
ssd for c:, 2tb drive for docs and such. Also using several externals
for backups and other storage.
On this type of system where 8.1 seems to run well and very fast. The
question is would win 10 be the same or better?

I am not a fan of some of the new features, but on my system Win10 seems to
run faster than 8.1 did.


interestingly enough, this has been measured. Win-10-nic is still a bit
slower than 7 and XP, though, from the measurement results I've seen.
And made. SPINNY drives have the worst comparison, since Win-10-nic
seems to be a bit unfriendlier to them. Too much registry crap compared
to earlier versions, WAY slows things down due to internally 'paranoid'
cacheing like "I gotta re-re-re-re-read that AGAIN because it *might*
have changed, even though that's impossible". I'm pretty sure that with
the registry, THAT is happening [which is why an SSD makes such a huge
difference, even though it shouldn't be THAT huge, because spinny disks
have latency due to the 'spinning' thing, and I'm right about the
'paranoid cacheing'].


  #24  
Old May 15th 16, 08:42 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Big Bad Bob
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Posts: 793
Default 8.1 to 10

On 05/14/16 00:34, Paul so wittily quipped:
There are some benchmarks here, which cover more areas
than I'd be able to cover. What I really want to see,
is this suite run on a dual core processor, because
I feel the dual core highlights the details of the
OSes better.

http://www.techspot.com/review/1042-...-vs-windows-7/


when I saw that they compared 8 and 7 and said '8 was on par, and
sometimes a little faster' I just about fell off the chair.

EVERY! OTHER! MEASUREMENT! I! HAVE! SEEN! (and made myself) shows that
for some rather CRITICAL timings [like application load times], "Ape" is
a LOT slower than 7.

THIS page, however, was consistent with that:
http://www.techspot.com/review/1042-...s-7/page3.html

where it matters - APPLICATION PERFORMANCE [like I mentioned already] is
SLOWER in "Ape", but about the same between 7 and 10, with 10 being
"slightly slower" than 7, with the interesting exception of firefox...
10 was slower than 8, which was slower than 7.

IE11 was the exception, being slower on 7 than 8 or 10, and WAY slower
than their new 'edge' (not surprising since MS browsers *SUCK*)

(they're disk performance did NOT compare any 'spinny' drives,
interestingly enough, so it was pointless to proceed)

in any case, things that matter and frustrate people the MOST are
"application slowness" issues, and NOT 'all that other ****' that makes
the BENCHMARK FANS cream their jeans. In fact, you could build an
adaptor or software or even an operating system "to pass the test with
flying colors", and YET have it COMPLETELY SUCK with REAL WORLD
performance. it happens, AND has been written about more than once.


In short, I think my observations stand: 7's performance (overall) is
faster than "Ape", and slightly faster than Win-10-nic. And that would
be based on USER PERCEPTION, which makes the BIGGEST difference in the
OS and platform that people choose.

incidentally - the 2D FLUGLY affects USER PERCEPTION also, which is why
7 machines (up until October of 2014) *FLEW* off of the shelves when
compared to "Ape" machines, because the PERCEPTION was that 7 is, just,
BETTER than "Ape". And Win-10-nic is like APE with spyware, adware,
forced updates, yotta yotta.

Micro-shaft HAS to give it away! Otherwise, who would BUY it [except
fanbois] ???



  #25  
Old May 15th 16, 08:45 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Big Bad Bob
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Posts: 793
Default 8.1 to 10

On 05/13/16 22:02, Mr. Man-wai Chang so wittily quipped:
On 14/05/2016 8:15 AM, Drew wrote:
I understand people not wanting to lose win 7 and also for the "other"
generation that does not have the ability or want to change....


This belief enable Window$ 7 to be sold at higher prices.


funny, I bought a 7 machine recently for $150 and it's a dual core 3Ghz
Lenovo running 7 Pro 64-bit.

"higher prices" indeed...

How about USER PREFERENCE because "Ape" and Win-10-nic *SUCK* by
comparison to 7???

  #26  
Old May 15th 16, 08:54 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Big Bad Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 793
Default 8.1 to 10 Question`

On 05/14/16 10:01, pjp so wittily quipped:
In article , says...

Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 5/14/2016 6:20 AM, DMP wrote:
On 5/13/2016 8:15 PM, Drew wrote:


I find bootup and shutdown much faster, however, I am using a local
account with most of its enhancements that phone home turned off. I have
never had the PC crash and the OS has run flawlessly. I don't think the
upgrade was necessary and would have stayed with 8.1 but the price was
right.

D.
I have a fully updated Windows 8.1 computer. I upgraded to Windows 10
in the weeks after it came out, but reverted to Windows 8.1.

Now after many of the bugs have been worked out of Windows 10 I would
like to try again. As I understand there are two ways to upgrade. One
where Windows 10 installs over Windows 8.1, this would preserve all of
the current drivers on the computer.

The other option is a clean install.

If I go for a clean install, will the installer find the proper drivers
for my computer, or will I have to locate them all as part of the
installation and manually install them.

I want to spend the minimal time in upgrading.


I just installed Win10 here a couple hours ago
(test install), and I went to Device Manager
and asked it to "Update" the driver for a device
in there. It can search online for a driver.
It's only if it cannot find a driver, you
have to dredge for it yourself. For example,
no OS was able to find the driver for my
PCI Express parallel port card. So that will
be extra work, when I get around to it. The
OS is otherwise fully functional.

And the Win10 DVD did install the Basic Display Adapter
for my 7950 video card (a card with no Win10 driver).
That's the fallback driver, when no manufacturer driver
is available. An attempt to search for a driver, of
course it failed. The Win10 screen in this case, will
be staying at 1024x768, as that is all the
Basic Display Adapter offers for resolution.
Even if your screen is 1920x1080, it runs
at 1024x768 (ugly).


That's my problem with two different pcs more than capable of running
Win10 EXCEPT for video. One's a nVidia 6800 the other an ATI 4650.
Neither company appears to plan on providing any updated driver for
either video card.


of course not. Welcome to the world of Micro-shaft
non-backward-compatibility! [I had this happen when I put 7 on an XP
laptop, which had an S3 Verge adapter, supported by XP, Linux, and
FreeBSD, but not by 7. But I needed 7 on it for work reasons so I just
won't be able to play any videos on it, and must use the 'generic' VESA
adaptor without any of the video performance boosts].


I am NOT going to buy a new video card just for an OS, especially when
they run all the games I want to play just fine as is. I also don't want
to loose multi-monitor setup on one and a functioning composite TV-OUT
to a TV on the other. Both cases I assume would not work after upgrade.


ACK on that. Micro-shaft stopped their backward compatibility support
some time ago, seems like, and isn't interested in starting it back up
again.

Computers last a LOT longer these days than they used to. 15 year old
computers still work "just fine" in fact, if you don't need super high
performance. Just upgrade the RAM and hard drive, and you're good to go
at 2Ghz or whatever. And the new inefficiencies of the "new" operating
systems makes the performance difference "that much less" than before.

And don't forget, on a LAPTOP, you can't just "change the adaptor".

  #27  
Old May 15th 16, 11:53 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.comp.os.windows-10
. . .winston[_3_]
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Posts: 335
Default 8.1 to 10 Question`

Big Bad Bob wrote on 05/15/2016 3:54 PM:
S3 Verge adapter


Microsoft designed and built Verge adapters and wrote the XP code ?

--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience
  #28  
Old May 16th 16, 02:24 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Big Bad Bob
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Posts: 793
Default 8.1 to 10 Question`

On 05/15/16 15:53, . . .winston so wittily quipped:
Big Bad Bob wrote on 05/15/2016 3:54 PM:
S3 Verge adapter


Microsoft designed and built Verge adapters and wrote the XP code ?


don't know, except that the XP driver won't work in 7. And it's *OLD*
and nobody wants to support old hardware, regardless of how FUNCTIONAL
it still is.


  #29  
Old May 16th 16, 05:52 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.comp.os.windows-10
. . .winston[_3_]
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Posts: 335
Default 8.1 to 10 Question`

Big Bad Bob wrote on 05/15/2016 9:24 PM:
On 05/15/16 15:53, . . .winston so wittily quipped:
Big Bad Bob wrote on 05/15/2016 3:54 PM:
S3 Verge adapter


Microsoft designed and built Verge adapters and wrote the XP code ?


don't know, except that the XP driver won't work in 7. And it's *OLD*
and nobody wants to support old hardware, regardless of how FUNCTIONAL
it still is.


Won't be the first XP driver that didn't work on 7, though doubtful MSFT
was responsible for creating the driver. More likely the hardware
manufacturer chose not to do so on multiple fronts - release, submit to
MSFT for certification, etc.

Doesn't sound like a MSFT backward non-compatibility issue.

--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience
  #30  
Old May 17th 16, 12:56 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Drew[_8_]
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Posts: 75
Default 8.1 to 10

On 5/13/2016 5:15 PM, Drew wrote:
Curious and considering it.
Recent custom build with Intel core 17 4790, 16 gigs of ram, 256 gig
ssd for c:, 2tb drive for docs and such. Also using several externals
for backups and other storage.
On this type of system where 8.1 seems to run well and very fast. The
question is would win 10 be the same or better?

Currently running win 10 on 2 other machines that belong to the wife and
she likes it.

I understand people not wanting to lose win 7 and also for the "other"
generation that does not have the ability or want to change. I am not
looking to start a flame war but I have noticed that there has been a
huge drop off in posts on alt.comp.os.windows-8 since 10 came out.


Full image of Win 8.1 as well as verified any previous backups. Took the
plunge on Saturday evening. Win 10 is taking a bit to get it the way 8.1
was (setup, personalizing etc). I run Tbird so mail is not a problem,
Mostly use Firefox but will probably mess around with edge to see if I
can make it useable. So far and overall it appears to be snappy just
like 8.1 was on this particular machine. I have seen many that hate 10
and many that hated 8.1. All love or at least like win 7. I understand
that as I still use that on other machines and it is better out of the
box than xp was to start with. (...and here we go!) Let the flood gates
open and we will see if and who really remembers!
 




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