MS 8.1 Update

On 13/08/2014 19:28, Silver Slimer wrote:


No, GNU/Linux and LibreOffice are not quality work in comparison to
Windows and MS Office.


We have known this for years and that is why serious people are using
Windows and not Linux despite being free.

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:54:03 +0100, Tester wrote:

Also, to distribute applications on a USB flash drive is not
convenient because of the bulkiness!


Whether a thumb drive has bulkiness or not depends on the particular
thumb drive. I have a 128MB thumb drive in my hand that I got because
an application was distributed on it. It's not bulky at all; its total
size in inches is 1 and 11/16 x 11/16 x 3/32.

On 13/08/2014 19:40, A wrote:



and Linux will continue to improve so we won't really know until then.

which one?

Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:54:03 +0100, Tester wrote:

Also, to distribute applications on a USB flash drive is not
convenient because of the bulkiness!


Whether a thumb drive has bulkiness or not depends on the particular
thumb drive. I have a 128MB thumb drive in my hand that I got because
an application was distributed on it. It's not bulky at all; its total
size in inches is 1 and 11/16 x 11/16 x 3/32.

USB flash can get bulky, when you want it running at screaming speeds.

I have a 128MB flash, that runs about 45MB/sec, and it's a single
chip design. I know, because I've had it open while trying to
repair the connector.

Patriot was one of the first to make a four channel USB key, which
is a bit bulky. In a case like that, they use more chips, to get
the bandwidth level up there. That allows the key to get well
past 45MB/sec. Now, there are several manufacturers doing that.

An SSD has eight or more chips in it, and you could take
the circuit out of an SSD, slap a SATA to USB3 chip on it, and
make a USB3 key. But that would be a little too bulky. And the
flash chips themselves, there isn't much you can shave off the
package, to make them smaller. Some of the flash chips now,
are 3D, and they stack them to get higher density. But for the
high speed flash keys, individual chip density doesn't have to be
the absolute highest one. If I wanted to make a fast 128MB key,
I would use four 32MB chips and run them in parallel. If I wanted
to make a 256MB flash key, perhaps I'd put two chips per channel
times four channels (runs at the same speed).

My first decent USB key, was the OCZ Technology Rally2. Which
was a two channel design, and it did around 18MB/sec on writes.
Now there are a larger variety of flash chips, spanning
crappy 4MB/sec chips, up to around 75MB/sec. Always check the
specs on your USB key (or use the Newegg reviewer benchmark
numbers where available), before you buy. There is no
reasoning at all on USB flash prices. I can have a retailer
sell me a 4MB/sec speed USB key for the same price as the
45MB/sec one. The one I bought which could only do 4MB/sec,
the product name has "Ultra" in it. It's hard to imagine
what moniker the "stinky" one has.

Paul

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 18:18:48 -0400, Paul wrote:

Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:54:03 +0100, Tester wrote:

Also, to distribute applications on a USB flash drive is not
convenient because of the bulkiness!


Whether a thumb drive has bulkiness or not depends on the particular
thumb drive. I have a 128MB thumb drive in my hand that I got because
an application was distributed on it. It's not bulky at all; its total
size in inches is 1 and 11/16 x 11/16 x 3/32.

USB flash can get bulky, when you want it running at screaming speeds.


My point was that it didn't *have to* be bulky. And especially for
distributing an application, the kind I mentioned would be adequate.
Installations don't have to run at "screaming speeds."

Silver Slimer wrote:
On 2014-08-13 2:40 PM, A wrote:

If they have an approach to the operating system similar to what they
have with Office 365, count me in. I find Office 365 INCREDIBLY
convenient and love the fact that it saves everything to OneDrive by
default. It is virtually impossible to delete any of your work in
progress as a result of this default feature. If Microsoft wants to
charge me say 5$ or 10$ per months to make sure that my Windows
installation updates for as long as I keep paying while still offering
stand-alone Windows versions like they do with Office, I'd be very
fine
with that.


You're the kind of sheep MS just loves. I'm sure businesses that
want to
protect intellectual property would disagree with you. Even Microsoft
can be hacked. And if you miss a payment, bye bye data. You say you
would never miss a payment? If so, you're pretty ****ing stupid. $5 or
$10 a month? LOL! You're kidding, right?

Considering Office costs about as much as Windows does for a license, I
don't see why they would charge more than 10$.

Like heroin, at first it's cheap until you get hooked and then the price
goes up. Once they've moved to ALL rental, watch the price go up. Where
else would someone like you go? They will have you by the short hairs
and can charge whatever they want.

That's why the stand-alone versions of Office exist as well, if ever
people are worried that their data might be taken hostage. You're not
FORCED to use Office 365 the same way you wouldn't be forced to install
Windows 365 either.

Now. This will change.


As for never missing a
payment, I have excellent credit and constantly have funds in my bank
account so I can't imagine why I would miss a payment.

You do now. This could change in a split second. I imagine you don't
know how.

My wife and I have very stable incomes coming from very stable jobs. My
job is essentially protected no matter how badly the economy is doing
(which is why I went into the field) whereas my wife benefits greatly
from the economy whether it goes down or not.

I didn't think you could figure it out. Try this scenario:

You and your wife are in an automobile accident. You can't work for over
a year and have very high medical bills.


Depends on the work you do. Again, "quality" is a subjective opinion,
not a fact and I'm not talking about now. Windows 8 and Office 2013 will
be supported for a long time and Linux will continue to improve so we
won't really know until then. For the work I do, the only thing I would
miss would be Outlook.

GNU/Linux has been steadily improving for two decades and has yet to
become anything better than pure ****.


I disagree. It's much better than, say, three years ago.

--
A

A wrote on 8/13/2014 8:13 PM:
Silver Slimer wrote:
On 2014-08-13 2:40 PM, A wrote:

If they have an approach to the operating system similar to what they
have with Office 365, count me in. I find Office 365 INCREDIBLY
convenient and love the fact that it saves everything to OneDrive by
default. It is virtually impossible to delete any of your work in
progress as a result of this default feature. If Microsoft wants to
charge me say 5$ or 10$ per months to make sure that my Windows
installation updates for as long as I keep paying while still
offering
stand-alone Windows versions like they do with Office, I'd be very
fine
with that.


You're the kind of sheep MS just loves. I'm sure businesses that
want to
protect intellectual property would disagree with you. Even Microsoft
can be hacked. And if you miss a payment, bye bye data. You say you
would never miss a payment? If so, you're pretty ****ing stupid. $5 or
$10 a month? LOL! You're kidding, right?

Considering Office costs about as much as Windows does for a license, I
don't see why they would charge more than 10$.

Like heroin, at first it's cheap until you get hooked and then the price
goes up. Once they've moved to ALL rental, watch the price go up. Where
else would someone like you go? They will have you by the short hairs
and can charge whatever they want.

That's why the stand-alone versions of Office exist as well, if ever
people are worried that their data might be taken hostage. You're not
FORCED to use Office 365 the same way you wouldn't be forced to install
Windows 365 either.

Now. This will change.


As for never missing a
payment, I have excellent credit and constantly have funds in my bank
account so I can't imagine why I would miss a payment.

You do now. This could change in a split second. I imagine you don't
know how.

My wife and I have very stable incomes coming from very stable jobs. My
job is essentially protected no matter how badly the economy is doing
(which is why I went into the field) whereas my wife benefits greatly
from the economy whether it goes down or not.

I didn't think you could figure it out. Try this scenario:

You and your wife are in an automobile accident. You can't work for over
a year and have very high medical bills.


Depends on the work you do. Again, "quality" is a subjective opinion,
not a fact and I'm not talking about now. Windows 8 and Office 2013 will
be supported for a long time and Linux will continue to improve so we
won't really know until then. For the work I do, the only thing I would
miss would be Outlook.

GNU/Linux has been steadily improving for two decades and has yet to
become anything better than pure ****.


I disagree. It's much better than, say, three years ago.

I agree, I use Windows heavily, but I've got a Linux Mint Partition and
I can get lost in using Linux for a day or two and not go back to
Windows. Given a little bit of effort and a few strategic programs, I
can drop Windows.

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:54:03 +0100, Tester wrote:

On 13/08/2014 18:21, . . .winston wrote:

- thus Win9 could also follow one of both of those paths (no media,
all full version)in addition to a subscription version.


I am not surprised because more and more OEMs (DELL for example) are not
installing CD/DVD Roms so they are becoming obsolete like old 3.5 disk
drives. Also, to distribute applications on a USB flash drive is not
convenient because of the bulkiness!!!

Per cubic foot or whatever unit of measure you care to use, are USB flash
drives any more bulky than CDs or DVDs? I think not, and when you get away
from the question of quantity and move to the question of capacity, USB
flash drives run away and leave optical media in the dust.

I just bought a pair of 128 GB (yes, gigabyte) USB flash drives for $40
each. At 700 MB per CD or 4.3GB per single layer DVD, how big a stack of
optical discs does it take to equal a single 128GB flash drive? Bulkiness
can be an issue, but it's more likely to be an issue with optical discs.

I recently wanted to buy another laptop and a desktop from DELL and I
had to make sure I select the systems with CD/DVD drives otherwise they
would have sent me without them.

My last two laptops, both Dell systems, were ordered without optical drives.
One of them used the space for a second hard drive, which is much more
useful to me than an optical drive. YMMV

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:05:47 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:54:03 +0100, Tester wrote:

Also, to distribute applications on a USB flash drive is not
convenient because of the bulkiness!


Whether a thumb drive has bulkiness or not depends on the particular
thumb drive. I have a 128MB thumb drive in my hand that I got because
an application was distributed on it. It's not bulky at all; its total
size in inches is 1 and 11/16 x 11/16 x 3/32.

Somewhere, I have a small pile of older USB flash drives of similar capacity
- 128MB, 256MB, and a couple of 1GB flash drives. Most recently, I bought a
pair of 128GB flash drives. The amazing thing to me is that no matter the
capacity, the form factor hasn't changed. My 128GB drives are the same
physical size as my 128MB drives, despite having roughly 1000 times the
storage capacity.

Good Guy wrote:
On 13/08/2014 18:49, A wrote:

And if you miss a payment, bye bye data.

Where did you get this from? I thought you can subscribe to OneDrive
without having Office365! I have onedrive free versions (old hotmail
type accounts with 25 GB) but I can add extra diskspace if I want to.




One can have a free OneDrive account (15GB) or pay for additional
storage ($2/mo down from $7.50 for 100GB or $4 down from $11.50 for 200GB).

Office 365 provides 1TB OneDrive storage for each user.

Both, additional storage and Office 365 subscriptions have auto-renewal
options. i.e. if enabled, and credit card is valid then no missed
payments.



--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

.. . .winston wrote:
Good Guy wrote:
On 13/08/2014 18:49, A wrote:

And if you miss a payment, bye bye data.

Where did you get this from? I thought you can subscribe to OneDrive
without having Office365! I have onedrive free versions (old hotmail
type accounts with 25 GB) but I can add extra diskspace if I want to.




One can have a free OneDrive account (15GB) or pay for additional
storage ($2/mo down from $7.50 for 100GB or $4 down from $11.50 for 200GB).

Office 365 provides 1TB OneDrive storage for each user.

Both, additional storage and Office 365 subscriptions have auto-renewal
options. i.e. if enabled, and credit card is valid then no missed
payments.




It's also important to note Office 365 isn't true cloud software...the
software still installs on the pc. For certain plans full application
programs (just like Office 2013) are installed locally.

Even if the subscription expires, one does not lose the ability to open
files (view, save)...the ability to edit them is halted until the
subscription is renewed. Files from OneDrive are also not deleted. They
can be viewed and or downloaded.

I.e. Bottom line...what some people think it is and base their
opinion/discussion may not be the least bit correct.

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

.. . .winston wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
Good Guy wrote:
On 13/08/2014 18:49, A wrote:

And if you miss a payment, bye bye data.

Where did you get this from? I thought you can subscribe to OneDrive
without having Office365! I have onedrive free versions (old hotmail
type accounts with 25 GB) but I can add extra diskspace if I want to.




One can have a free OneDrive account (15GB) or pay for additional
storage ($2/mo down from $7.50 for 100GB or $4 down from $11.50 for
200GB).

Office 365 provides 1TB OneDrive storage for each user.

Both, additional storage and Office 365 subscriptions have auto-renewal
options. i.e. if enabled, and credit card is valid then no missed
payments.




It's also important to note Office 365 isn't true cloud software...the
software still installs on the pc. For certain plans full application
programs (just like Office 2013) are installed locally.

Even if the subscription expires, one does not lose the ability to open
files (view, save)...the ability to edit them is halted until the
subscription is renewed. Files from OneDrive are also not deleted. They
can be viewed and or downloaded.

I.e. Bottom line...what some people think it is and base their
opinion/discussion may not be the least bit correct.

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

Can one edit files using another program such as Libre Office if the
subscription expires?

--
A

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:54:03 +0100, Tester wrote:

- thus Win9 could also follow one of both of those paths (no media,
all full version)in addition to a subscription version.


I am not surprised because more and more OEMs (DELL for example) are not
installing CD/DVD Roms so they are becoming obsolete like old 3.5 disk
drives. Also, to distribute applications on a USB flash drive is not
convenient because of the bulkiness!!!

I recently wanted to buy another laptop and a desktop from DELL and I
had to make sure I select the systems with CD/DVD drives otherwise they
would have sent me without them.

If your computer hasn't got a built-in CD/DVD drive, it's the easiest
thing in the world to plug in an external one. You'd only need to keep
one between all your computers for those rare occasions when you want
to install something. I even have a USB external floppy drive in a
cupboard somewhere, though I haven't used it for years.

Rod.

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 23:50:59 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

My 128GB drives are the same physical size as my 128MB drives,
despite having roughly 1000 times the storage capacity.

Congratulations, you've discovered Moore's Law.

On 2014-08-13 8:13 PM, A wrote:

My wife and I have very stable incomes coming from very stable jobs. My
job is essentially protected no matter how badly the economy is doing
(which is why I went into the field) whereas my wife benefits greatly
from the economy whether it goes down or not.

I didn't think you could figure it out. Try this scenario:

You and your wife are in an automobile accident. You can't work for over
a year and have very high medical bills.

I truly doubt that being able to use my computer will be my principal
concern if ever I am on the sidelines for a year.


Depends on the work you do. Again, "quality" is a subjective opinion,
not a fact and I'm not talking about now. Windows 8 and Office 2013 will
be supported for a long time and Linux will continue to improve so we
won't really know until then. For the work I do, the only thing I would
miss would be Outlook.

GNU/Linux has been steadily improving for two decades and has yet to
become anything better than pure ****.

I disagree. It's much better than, say, three years ago.

I was using it exclusively three years ago and did the same this year
for two months. To say the least, it hasn't changed that drastically.

--
Silver Slimer
OpenMedia Supporter
GNU/Linux is a dangerous attack on your data