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Solid State Drive/Windows 8



 
 
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  #16  
Old November 20th 12, 02:12 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Solid State Drive/Windows 8

Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 11/16/2012, Boris posted:
I bought a Win 8 Toshiba ultra laptop with a SATA 500GB drive and a
solid state 32GB drive. The description says the solid state drive is
for the OS use only:


http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/...oid=2000040281


My question is, do I install the apps on the SS drive? And if so, do
I need to change any folder settings, or do I just direct app installs
to the proper drive letter designation?


I haven't even turned on the laptop yet. Win 8 is new to me, as is
the best use of solid state drives.


TIA


After reading this thread and after (finally!) reading the specs on the
Toshiba site you linked us to, I side with all of the people who say
that your 32 GB "SSD" is *definitely* a cache built in to the 500 GB
drive and it is *definitely* not accessible to you.

Here's a copy and paste directly from the specs on that site:
"Hard Drive
500GB HDD (5400 RPM, Serial ATA) with 32GB (system use only) solid
state disk cache"


No.

It's not inside the hard drive.

It's a separate device.

Why do I say that ? The Toshiba site offers the Intel RST
driver for that computer. You don't need the RST driver
for a single hard drive (as you propose). Therefore, this
is the (chipset licensed) software cache feature built into
the RST driver, which uses a small SSD combined with the
hard drive.

On hybrid hard drives, if you look at the specs, a hybrid
uses less flash than that.

Example of a 2.5" hybrid.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148591

"Solid state hybrid drive with 4GB solid state memory delivers
SSD-like performance with hard drive capacity options."

The OP has also stated, that he sees a "RAID 0 disk listed, which
is disconnected", and that is a side effect of the RST option
to split the cache SSD in two (unequal) pieces, using part of
it for regular storage, and part as cache. The portion of the
SSD allocated for regular storage, becomes a "single disk RAID 0"
according to Intel. So the evidence lines up with the Intel
description of that caching feature (SSD+HDD, two drives).
The "RAID 0 disk listed, which is disconnected" will magically
be reconnected, when the OP enters the Intel RST control panel,
and reduces the setting for the size of the cache. The
evidence suggests currently the entire 32GB is set up as
cache, and 0GB is set for regular SSD usage. And at 0GB,
the "RAID 0 disk listed", ends up disconnected. This is
all trickery by the RST driver. And it only is licensed to
work with particular chipsets. Since it's a software
technique, it would probably work everywhere otherwise.
It doesn't rely on hardware.

Paul
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  #17  
Old November 20th 12, 03:54 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Gene E. Bloch[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,720
Default Solid State Drive/Windows 8

On 11/19/2012, Paul posted:
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 11/16/2012, Boris posted:
I bought a Win 8 Toshiba ultra laptop with a SATA 500GB drive and a solid
state 32GB drive. The description says the solid state drive is for the
OS use only:


http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/...oid=2000040281


My question is, do I install the apps on the SS drive? And if so, do I
need to change any folder settings, or do I just direct app installs to
the proper drive letter designation?


I haven't even turned on the laptop yet. Win 8 is new to me, as is the
best use of solid state drives.


TIA


After reading this thread and after (finally!) reading the specs on the
Toshiba site you linked us to, I side with all of the people who say that
your 32 GB "SSD" is *definitely* a cache built in to the 500 GB drive and
it is *definitely* not accessible to you.

Here's a copy and paste directly from the specs on that site:
"Hard Drive
500GB HDD (5400 RPM, Serial ATA) with 32GB (system use only) solid state
disk cache"


No.


It's not inside the hard drive.


It's a separate device.


Why do I say that ? The Toshiba site offers the Intel RST
driver for that computer. You don't need the RST driver
for a single hard drive (as you propose). Therefore, this
is the (chipset licensed) software cache feature built into
the RST driver, which uses a small SSD combined with the
hard drive.


On hybrid hard drives, if you look at the specs, a hybrid
uses less flash than that.


Example of a 2.5" hybrid.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148591


"Solid state hybrid drive with 4GB solid state memory delivers
SSD-like performance with hard drive capacity options."


The OP has also stated, that he sees a "RAID 0 disk listed, which
is disconnected", and that is a side effect of the RST option
to split the cache SSD in two (unequal) pieces, using part of
it for regular storage, and part as cache. The portion of the
SSD allocated for regular storage, becomes a "single disk RAID 0"
according to Intel. So the evidence lines up with the Intel
description of that caching feature (SSD+HDD, two drives).
The "RAID 0 disk listed, which is disconnected" will magically
be reconnected, when the OP enters the Intel RST control panel,
and reduces the setting for the size of the cache. The
evidence suggests currently the entire 32GB is set up as
cache, and 0GB is set for regular SSD usage. And at 0GB,
the "RAID 0 disk listed", ends up disconnected. This is
all trickery by the RST driver. And it only is licensed to
work with particular chipsets. Since it's a software
technique, it would probably work everywhere otherwise.
It doesn't rely on hardware.


Paul


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148591

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)


  #18  
Old November 20th 12, 04:07 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Gene E. Bloch[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,720
Default Solid State Drive/Windows 8

On 11/19/2012, Gene E. Bloch posted:
On 11/19/2012, Paul posted:
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 11/16/2012, Boris posted:
I bought a Win 8 Toshiba ultra laptop with a SATA 500GB drive and a solid
state 32GB drive. The description says the solid state drive is for the
OS use only:

http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/...oid=2000040281

My question is, do I install the apps on the SS drive? And if so, do I
need to change any folder settings, or do I just direct app installs to
the proper drive letter designation?

I haven't even turned on the laptop yet. Win 8 is new to me, as is the
best use of solid state drives.

TIA

After reading this thread and after (finally!) reading the specs on the
Toshiba site you linked us to, I side with all of the people who say that
your 32 GB "SSD" is *definitely* a cache built in to the 500 GB drive and
it is *definitely* not accessible to you.

Here's a copy and paste directly from the specs on that site:
"Hard Drive
500GB HDD (5400 RPM, Serial ATA) with 32GB (system use only) solid
state disk cache"


No.


It's not inside the hard drive.


It's a separate device.


Why do I say that ? The Toshiba site offers the Intel RST
driver for that computer. You don't need the RST driver
for a single hard drive (as you propose). Therefore, this
is the (chipset licensed) software cache feature built into
the RST driver, which uses a small SSD combined with the
hard drive.


On hybrid hard drives, if you look at the specs, a hybrid
uses less flash than that.


Example of a 2.5" hybrid.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148591


"Solid state hybrid drive with 4GB solid state memory delivers
SSD-like performance with hard drive capacity options."


The OP has also stated, that he sees a "RAID 0 disk listed, which
is disconnected", and that is a side effect of the RST option
to split the cache SSD in two (unequal) pieces, using part of
it for regular storage, and part as cache. The portion of the
SSD allocated for regular storage, becomes a "single disk RAID 0"
according to Intel. So the evidence lines up with the Intel
description of that caching feature (SSD+HDD, two drives).
The "RAID 0 disk listed, which is disconnected" will magically
be reconnected, when the OP enters the Intel RST control panel,
and reduces the setting for the size of the cache. The
evidence suggests currently the entire 32GB is set up as
cache, and 0GB is set for regular SSD usage. And at 0GB,
the "RAID 0 disk listed", ends up disconnected. This is
all trickery by the RST driver. And it only is licensed to
work with particular chipsets. Since it's a software
technique, it would probably work everywhere otherwise.
It doesn't rely on hardware.


Paul


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148591


I thought it might be better to see what Seagate has to say, rather
than go through an outside agency (i.e.Newegg).

This is Seagate's page for the above drive:

http://www.seagate.com/internal-hard...tus-xt-hybrid/

but that seems to be the same as Newegg's data.

The Seagate page points to this, which might be more marketing than
explanation:

http://www.epageflip.net/t/26941/22

Unfortunately the web designer for that page thinks tiny pale blue and
pale grey type is cool. I can't quite read it :-(

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)


  #19  
Old November 20th 12, 04:08 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Solid State Drive/Windows 8

Gene E. Bloch wrote:


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148591


It has 32 MB of cache RAM (buffers disk I/O near the cable).

It has 4GB of flash memory for the hybrid feature.

Still a lot less than the 32 GB of the OP's laptop.

Paul
  #20  
Old November 20th 12, 04:58 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Gene E. Bloch[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,720
Default Solid State Drive/Windows 8

On 11/19/2012, Paul posted:
Gene E. Bloch wrote:



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148591


It has 32 MB of cache RAM (buffers disk I/O near the cable).


It has 4GB of flash memory for the hybrid feature.


Still a lot less than the 32 GB of the OP's laptop.


Paul


I looked again, and ended up agreeing with you, AKA you're right and
I'm wrong :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)


  #21  
Old November 20th 12, 05:07 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Solid State Drive/Windows 8

Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 11/19/2012, Paul posted:
Gene E. Bloch wrote:



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148591


It has 32 MB of cache RAM (buffers disk I/O near the cable).


It has 4GB of flash memory for the hybrid feature.


Still a lot less than the 32 GB of the OP's laptop.


Paul


I looked again, and ended up agreeing with you, AKA you're right and I'm
wrong :-)


BTW: the fast storage doc is available here.

http://cdn.epageflip.net//files/aT04...IwZA%253D%253D

I like the way they try to hide it underneath the other part of the presentation.
And make it so hard to get to.

I had to use Firefox in Ubuntu, to get an actual link I could use.
Download is 44.9MB or so. For some reason, my browsers in Windows
were giving me a hard time.

This is a line from the doc...

"Adaptive Memory technology makes such efficient
use of the drive's solid state memory that only 4gB
to 8GB of flash capacity is actually needed."

Roughly translated, "that's all they were willing to spend".

Paul
  #22  
Old November 20th 12, 05:34 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Gene E. Bloch[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,720
Default Solid State Drive/Windows 8

On 11/19/2012, Paul posted:
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 11/19/2012, Paul posted:
Gene E. Bloch wrote:



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148591


It has 32 MB of cache RAM (buffers disk I/O near the cable).


It has 4GB of flash memory for the hybrid feature.


Still a lot less than the 32 GB of the OP's laptop.


Paul


I looked again, and ended up agreeing with you, AKA you're right and I'm
wrong :-)


BTW: the fast storage doc is available here.


http://cdn.epageflip.net//files/aT04...IwZA%253D%253D


I like the way they try to hide it underneath the other part of the
presentation.
And make it so hard to get to.


I had to use Firefox in Ubuntu, to get an actual link I could use.
Download is 44.9MB or so. For some reason, my browsers in Windows
were giving me a hard time.


This is a line from the doc...


"Adaptive Memory technology makes such efficient
use of the drive's solid state memory that only 4gB
to 8GB of flash capacity is actually needed."


Roughly translated, "that's all they were willing to spend".


Paul


That reminds me of the old cartoon showing two insects, one naked and
one with a tuxedo on, but otherwise identical. The first was labeled
"Bug", the second "Feature".

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)


 




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