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  #16  
Old December 31st 12, 12:54 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Gene E. Bloch[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,485
Default Latest Windows Upgrade offer

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 23:25:14 +0000, Robin Bignall wrote:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 15:04:02 -0800, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:02:34 +0000, Robin Bignall wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 17:28:16 -0800, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 20:42:20 +0000, Robin Bignall wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:23:54 -0700, "...winston"
wrote:

The real question, if you care to elaborate further:
- Why won't your hardware do an upgrade install ?

I went through this way upthread, Winston. During the upgrade process
the installer issues reboot requests. My hardware, for some reason,
ignores them. So, what should have been done during the reboot does not
get done and the install fails. Clean installs do not issue reboots.

I have checked my motherboard to see if anyone else has reported this
(Paul had a search too) and I can find nothing. This is a new, modern
M/B -- Gigabyte GA-X79-UD3.

(What you actually see during the install is the installer window saying
something like "Press 'next' to reboot your system". You press, the
window shuts and immediately reopens again. It expects that a reboot
has been done, but it hasn't, so whatever should have happened during
the reboot has not happened. The installer tries to continue but says
it can't find the files it's looking for and exits. If you do a manual
reboot at that 'next', the system does not pick up that an installer was
supposed to be running. If you restart the installer it starts at the
beginning again.)

Reading your scenario above, it looks to me like you made the same
mistake I did a while back.

The deal is that the second and subsequent boots are *not* from the DVD.
When you are asked to press any key to reboot, *don't do it*. Let it
boot from the partially completed installation on the hard drive.

Yes, I know that, but there is no partially-completed installation,
Gene. And the Win8 installer does not say 'press any key to reboot'. It
just issues a 'restart' command and shuts down, leaving itself pending,
but the hardware ignores the command. The installer then restarts
assuming the reboot has happened.

Anyway, today I decided to try installing the Win8 that I bought and
downloaded to the desk top yesterday. It started, and went to get
updates. Then it told me that it would reboot when I pressed 'next'.
When I did, the installer window closed. Needless to say, it didn't
reboot, and the installer window opened again (assuming the reboot had
been done) and showed me the licence. I accepted that and then it
started installing..10%..30%..60%. I thought it was going to work. At
80% it said 'in a few moments your computer will reboot'. The few
moments passed, then up came a grey, unassuming OK box that simply said
'Windows 8 has failed to install'. No error code.
That was that.

If I go to shutdown and select 'restart' the system will reboot. If
some installation ends up with 'restart now' and 'restart later' boxes,
and I choose the former, it reboots. But if a program such as an
installer issues a 'restart' command internally, my hardware ignores it.
That is the problem.


Sorry that my guess wasn't correct. I read your statements as a bit
ambiguous, and on the off-chance that one of my interpretations was
correct, it seemed to be worth posting my idea. I wish it had helped...

As you might guess, I therefore have no useful ideas. Your problem seems
bizarre enough. Even the idea of BIOS settings doesn't make sense (to
me, anyway), since shutdown as a command doesn't mean sleep or
whatever...

Additionally, I don't think I understand that if the computer hasn't
rebooted, it manages to run the installer again. Does that mean it
doesn't even shut down? You said "It just issues a 'restart' command and
shuts down"; I thought that meant the computer, but now I am guessing
that it means the program.


Yes, the installer program.
It closes the installer window, calls for a reboot from the system, and
then immediately reopens the window again and carries on, not knowing
that the reboot hasn't happened. But because it hasn't happened,
whatever should have been done during the reboot, but which hasn't been
done, causes the install to eventually fail.

It happens almost immediately if I try to install from DVD. The
installer fails at the very next step after getting updates, because it
can't find the licence on C: that it's installing to. Thus, one of the
things that must happen on the reboot is the copying of the licence from
DVD to C:. When installing from desktop, the licence is already on C:,
so it finds it and breaks down at a later, failing reboot at 80% done.

I hope that's fairly clear. Why it's happening on my hardware, I
haven't a clue. Nobody else has found it or brought it up as far as I
can tell. There's nothing in BIOS, and it's maddening: it means that to
get W8 I shall have to do a clean install. That's a lot of work; more
than 60 programs to reinstall.


:-(

By now, that emoticon is all I can offer, sadly.

I hope the rest of the New Year season goes well for you, i.e., have a
happy New Year otherwise...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
Ads
  #17  
Old December 31st 12, 01:02 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Latest Windows Upgrade offer

Robin Bignall wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 15:04:02 -0800, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:02:34 +0000, Robin Bignall wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 17:28:16 -0800, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 20:42:20 +0000, Robin Bignall wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:23:54 -0700, "...winston"
wrote:

The real question, if you care to elaborate further:
- Why won't your hardware do an upgrade install ?
I went through this way upthread, Winston. During the upgrade process
the installer issues reboot requests. My hardware, for some reason,
ignores them. So, what should have been done during the reboot does not
get done and the install fails. Clean installs do not issue reboots.

I have checked my motherboard to see if anyone else has reported this
(Paul had a search too) and I can find nothing. This is a new, modern
M/B -- Gigabyte GA-X79-UD3.

(What you actually see during the install is the installer window saying
something like "Press 'next' to reboot your system". You press, the
window shuts and immediately reopens again. It expects that a reboot
has been done, but it hasn't, so whatever should have happened during
the reboot has not happened. The installer tries to continue but says
it can't find the files it's looking for and exits. If you do a manual
reboot at that 'next', the system does not pick up that an installer was
supposed to be running. If you restart the installer it starts at the
beginning again.)
Reading your scenario above, it looks to me like you made the same
mistake I did a while back.

The deal is that the second and subsequent boots are *not* from the DVD.
When you are asked to press any key to reboot, *don't do it*. Let it
boot from the partially completed installation on the hard drive.

Yes, I know that, but there is no partially-completed installation,
Gene. And the Win8 installer does not say 'press any key to reboot'. It
just issues a 'restart' command and shuts down, leaving itself pending,
but the hardware ignores the command. The installer then restarts
assuming the reboot has happened.

Anyway, today I decided to try installing the Win8 that I bought and
downloaded to the desk top yesterday. It started, and went to get
updates. Then it told me that it would reboot when I pressed 'next'.
When I did, the installer window closed. Needless to say, it didn't
reboot, and the installer window opened again (assuming the reboot had
been done) and showed me the licence. I accepted that and then it
started installing..10%..30%..60%. I thought it was going to work. At
80% it said 'in a few moments your computer will reboot'. The few
moments passed, then up came a grey, unassuming OK box that simply said
'Windows 8 has failed to install'. No error code.
That was that.

If I go to shutdown and select 'restart' the system will reboot. If
some installation ends up with 'restart now' and 'restart later' boxes,
and I choose the former, it reboots. But if a program such as an
installer issues a 'restart' command internally, my hardware ignores it.
That is the problem.

Sorry that my guess wasn't correct. I read your statements as a bit
ambiguous, and on the off-chance that one of my interpretations was
correct, it seemed to be worth posting my idea. I wish it had helped...

As you might guess, I therefore have no useful ideas. Your problem seems
bizarre enough. Even the idea of BIOS settings doesn't make sense (to
me, anyway), since shutdown as a command doesn't mean sleep or
whatever...

Additionally, I don't think I understand that if the computer hasn't
rebooted, it manages to run the installer again. Does that mean it
doesn't even shut down? You said "It just issues a 'restart' command and
shuts down"; I thought that meant the computer, but now I am guessing
that it means the program.


Yes, the installer program.
It closes the installer window, calls for a reboot from the system, and
then immediately reopens the window again and carries on, not knowing
that the reboot hasn't happened. But because it hasn't happened,
whatever should have been done during the reboot, but which hasn't been
done, causes the install to eventually fail.

It happens almost immediately if I try to install from DVD. The
installer fails at the very next step after getting updates, because it
can't find the licence on C: that it's installing to. Thus, one of the
things that must happen on the reboot is the copying of the licence from
DVD to C:. When installing from desktop, the licence is already on C:,
so it finds it and breaks down at a later, failing reboot at 80% done.

I hope that's fairly clear. Why it's happening on my hardware, I
haven't a clue. Nobody else has found it or brought it up as far as I
can tell. There's nothing in BIOS, and it's maddening: it means that to
get W8 I shall have to do a clean install. That's a lot of work; more
than 60 programs to reinstall.


The BIOS probably makes some of the controls accessible as ACPI objects.
Lots of those are assigned standard numbers. And names like "power button".

You'd need to boot something like the recovery console (or something like
whatever WinPE is), and run the equivalent of Everest, and get a listing
of ACPI objects. And see if you recognize anything out of sorts there.

It's possible the installer isn't using the ACPI object offered by the
BIOS, and there's a lack of communications between the two of them.

Just for laughs, you could enter the BIOS, and see if there is an
APM versus ACPI option (APM is an older standard for passing stuff
from OS to BIOS). Or even, check the BIOS and see if there
is an "ACPI 2.0" [Enable] option. Going backwards to APM, might
restore communications between the installer and BIOS. Of, going
forward, and enabling ACPI 2.0, might help (if, say, the installer
no longer recognizes any standard before ACPI 2.0). The goofy thing
is, Asus motherboards *disable* ACPI 2.0 by default. It's one of
the things on my "must fix" list, when I get a new motherboard.

Paul
  #18  
Old December 31st 12, 01:43 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Robin Bignall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 595
Default Latest Windows Upgrade offer

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:02:45 -0500, Paul wrote:

Robin Bignall wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 15:04:02 -0800, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:02:34 +0000, Robin Bignall wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 17:28:16 -0800, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 20:42:20 +0000, Robin Bignall wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:23:54 -0700, "...winston"
wrote:

The real question, if you care to elaborate further:
- Why won't your hardware do an upgrade install ?
I went through this way upthread, Winston. During the upgrade process
the installer issues reboot requests. My hardware, for some reason,
ignores them. So, what should have been done during the reboot does not
get done and the install fails. Clean installs do not issue reboots.

I have checked my motherboard to see if anyone else has reported this
(Paul had a search too) and I can find nothing. This is a new, modern
M/B -- Gigabyte GA-X79-UD3.

(What you actually see during the install is the installer window saying
something like "Press 'next' to reboot your system". You press, the
window shuts and immediately reopens again. It expects that a reboot
has been done, but it hasn't, so whatever should have happened during
the reboot has not happened. The installer tries to continue but says
it can't find the files it's looking for and exits. If you do a manual
reboot at that 'next', the system does not pick up that an installer was
supposed to be running. If you restart the installer it starts at the
beginning again.)
Reading your scenario above, it looks to me like you made the same
mistake I did a while back.

The deal is that the second and subsequent boots are *not* from the DVD.
When you are asked to press any key to reboot, *don't do it*. Let it
boot from the partially completed installation on the hard drive.

Yes, I know that, but there is no partially-completed installation,
Gene. And the Win8 installer does not say 'press any key to reboot'. It
just issues a 'restart' command and shuts down, leaving itself pending,
but the hardware ignores the command. The installer then restarts
assuming the reboot has happened.

Anyway, today I decided to try installing the Win8 that I bought and
downloaded to the desk top yesterday. It started, and went to get
updates. Then it told me that it would reboot when I pressed 'next'.
When I did, the installer window closed. Needless to say, it didn't
reboot, and the installer window opened again (assuming the reboot had
been done) and showed me the licence. I accepted that and then it
started installing..10%..30%..60%. I thought it was going to work. At
80% it said 'in a few moments your computer will reboot'. The few
moments passed, then up came a grey, unassuming OK box that simply said
'Windows 8 has failed to install'. No error code.
That was that.

If I go to shutdown and select 'restart' the system will reboot. If
some installation ends up with 'restart now' and 'restart later' boxes,
and I choose the former, it reboots. But if a program such as an
installer issues a 'restart' command internally, my hardware ignores it.
That is the problem.
Sorry that my guess wasn't correct. I read your statements as a bit
ambiguous, and on the off-chance that one of my interpretations was
correct, it seemed to be worth posting my idea. I wish it had helped...

As you might guess, I therefore have no useful ideas. Your problem seems
bizarre enough. Even the idea of BIOS settings doesn't make sense (to
me, anyway), since shutdown as a command doesn't mean sleep or
whatever...

Additionally, I don't think I understand that if the computer hasn't
rebooted, it manages to run the installer again. Does that mean it
doesn't even shut down? You said "It just issues a 'restart' command and
shuts down"; I thought that meant the computer, but now I am guessing
that it means the program.


Yes, the installer program.
It closes the installer window, calls for a reboot from the system, and
then immediately reopens the window again and carries on, not knowing
that the reboot hasn't happened. But because it hasn't happened,
whatever should have been done during the reboot, but which hasn't been
done, causes the install to eventually fail.

It happens almost immediately if I try to install from DVD. The
installer fails at the very next step after getting updates, because it
can't find the licence on C: that it's installing to. Thus, one of the
things that must happen on the reboot is the copying of the licence from
DVD to C:. When installing from desktop, the licence is already on C:,
so it finds it and breaks down at a later, failing reboot at 80% done.

I hope that's fairly clear. Why it's happening on my hardware, I
haven't a clue. Nobody else has found it or brought it up as far as I
can tell. There's nothing in BIOS, and it's maddening: it means that to
get W8 I shall have to do a clean install. That's a lot of work; more
than 60 programs to reinstall.


The BIOS probably makes some of the controls accessible as ACPI objects.
Lots of those are assigned standard numbers. And names like "power button".

You'd need to boot something like the recovery console (or something like
whatever WinPE is), and run the equivalent of Everest, and get a listing
of ACPI objects. And see if you recognize anything out of sorts there.

It's possible the installer isn't using the ACPI object offered by the
BIOS, and there's a lack of communications between the two of them.

Just for laughs, you could enter the BIOS, and see if there is an
APM versus ACPI option (APM is an older standard for passing stuff
from OS to BIOS). Or even, check the BIOS and see if there
is an "ACPI 2.0" [Enable] option. Going backwards to APM, might
restore communications between the installer and BIOS. Of, going
forward, and enabling ACPI 2.0, might help (if, say, the installer
no longer recognizes any standard before ACPI 2.0). The goofy thing
is, Asus motherboards *disable* ACPI 2.0 by default. It's one of
the things on my "must fix" list, when I get a new motherboard.

I'll have a look tomorrow, Paul.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England
  #19  
Old December 31st 12, 04:57 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Robin Bignall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 595
Default Latest Windows Upgrade offer

On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 00:43:21 +0000, Robin Bignall
wrote:

The BIOS probably makes some of the controls accessible as ACPI objects.
Lots of those are assigned standard numbers. And names like "power button".

The only mention of ACPI in BIOS is 'ACPI sleep state' which is set to
S3.

In device mgr:
'computer' says 'ACPI x86-based PC'
'system devices' says 'ACPI fixed feature button' and 'ACPI power
button'.
The specs on the site below say it's ACPI 2.0a.

You'd need to boot something like the recovery console (or something like
whatever WinPE is), and run the equivalent of Everest, and get a listing
of ACPI objects. And see if you recognize anything out of sorts there.

It's possible the installer isn't using the ACPI object offered by the
BIOS, and there's a lack of communications between the two of them.

Heaven knows what to do about that. This is a modern UEFI motherboard.
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/pro...px?pid=4050#ov

Very weird, the whole shebang!
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England
  #20  
Old December 31st 12, 05:35 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Latest Windows Upgrade offer

Robin Bignall wrote:
On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 00:43:21 +0000, Robin Bignall
wrote:

The BIOS probably makes some of the controls accessible as ACPI objects.
Lots of those are assigned standard numbers. And names like "power button".

The only mention of ACPI in BIOS is 'ACPI sleep state' which is set to
S3.

In device mgr:
'computer' says 'ACPI x86-based PC'
'system devices' says 'ACPI fixed feature button' and 'ACPI power
button'.
The specs on the site below say it's ACPI 2.0a.

You'd need to boot something like the recovery console (or something like
whatever WinPE is), and run the equivalent of Everest, and get a listing
of ACPI objects. And see if you recognize anything out of sorts there.

It's possible the installer isn't using the ACPI object offered by the
BIOS, and there's a lack of communications between the two of them.

Heaven knows what to do about that. This is a modern UEFI motherboard.
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/pro...px?pid=4050#ov

Very weird, the whole shebang!


OK, had a look at the manual, and anything useful is gone.

*******

The first review here, mentions a problem with power cutting out
on the board.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...tem=13-128-532

"At first I couldn't even get a windows install going on the machine
and I kept getting hard resets out of nowhere. I did a little research
and found that there was an updated bios that effectively limited power
to certain parts of the board. I just wanted to get it working so I
installed the new bios and all was well."

But looking through the BIOS releases on the web page you show,
there's nothing there admitting to any problems. And "kept
getting hard resets" is the exact opposite of your symptoms,
because in your case, you're not getting a reset pulse.

What do you have plugged into the machine ? Any iPod chargers ?
Any unique plug-in cards in the slots ? I'm just looking for
something that might interfere with the logic in the power
cycling section.

I couldn't find anything in the Newegg reviews, that
matched your symptoms.

You should be running a relatively recent BIOS, because when
your board first shipped, there was a danger of the voltage
regulator on board burning up (while extreme overclocking).
It would seem that the later BIOS changes the power limiter
setting (as if it just wasn't set on the early BIOS). F7
is probably safe, as the release notes mention "improved protection mechanism".
I guess terse working comes from their marketing department
("admit to nothing").

Paul
  #21  
Old December 31st 12, 06:32 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Robin Bignall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 595
Default Latest Windows Upgrade offer

On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 11:35:41 -0500, Paul wrote:

Robin Bignall wrote:
On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 00:43:21 +0000, Robin Bignall
wrote:

The BIOS probably makes some of the controls accessible as ACPI objects.
Lots of those are assigned standard numbers. And names like "power button".

The only mention of ACPI in BIOS is 'ACPI sleep state' which is set to
S3.

In device mgr:
'computer' says 'ACPI x86-based PC'
'system devices' says 'ACPI fixed feature button' and 'ACPI power
button'.
The specs on the site below say it's ACPI 2.0a.

You'd need to boot something like the recovery console (or something like
whatever WinPE is), and run the equivalent of Everest, and get a listing
of ACPI objects. And see if you recognize anything out of sorts there.

It's possible the installer isn't using the ACPI object offered by the
BIOS, and there's a lack of communications between the two of them.

Heaven knows what to do about that. This is a modern UEFI motherboard.
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/pro...px?pid=4050#ov

Very weird, the whole shebang!


OK, had a look at the manual, and anything useful is gone.

*******

The first review here, mentions a problem with power cutting out
on the board.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...tem=13-128-532

"At first I couldn't even get a windows install going on the machine
and I kept getting hard resets out of nowhere. I did a little research
and found that there was an updated bios that effectively limited power
to certain parts of the board. I just wanted to get it working so I
installed the new bios and all was well."

But looking through the BIOS releases on the web page you show,
there's nothing there admitting to any problems. And "kept
getting hard resets" is the exact opposite of your symptoms,
because in your case, you're not getting a reset pulse.

What do you have plugged into the machine ? Any iPod chargers ?
Any unique plug-in cards in the slots ? I'm just looking for
something that might interfere with the logic in the power
cycling section.

Nope, nothing special. A PCI modem for phone that I've had for years. A
USB 2 D-Link 7-way USB box with the wireless mouse, keyboard and numeric
pad plugged in. But I tried to install W8 before getting the D-link,
with wireless in regular USB2 slots on M/B. Same problem.

I couldn't find anything in the Newegg reviews, that
matched your symptoms.

You should be running a relatively recent BIOS, because when
your board first shipped, there was a danger of the voltage
regulator on board burning up (while extreme overclocking).
It would seem that the later BIOS changes the power limiter
setting (as if it just wasn't set on the early BIOS). F7
is probably safe, as the release notes mention "improved protection mechanism".
I guess terse working comes from their marketing department
("admit to nothing").

I don't overclock and BIOS is dated May, 2012. Level F10.

All very peculiar. Everything else runs fine, installers and all. Just
not Windows.

--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England
 




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