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Heads Up. Shutdown is not shutdown in W8
Hi All,
Just a heads up. Shutdown is not shutdown. It is actually log off and hibernate. Reboot is the same. So good luck trying to get into BIOS or trying to get some device drivers to activate or trying to unscramble a screwed up OS. This is the marketing guys at M$ telling the engineers that W8 takes too long to shutdown and/or start up. Bad idea. Should have given the user both options: hard shutdown and log off and hibernate. To do an actual shutdown, open a command prompt and enter shutdown /s Then hold your breath. It won't give you an indication that anything is happening for about 20 seconds. This was the only way I got a customer's Ethernet card to see her Ethernet cable. Never did figure out the magic keystrokes to get into BIOS (new HP laptop). Got every other thing: diagnostics, recovery, yada, yada, yada. Got so ****ed at W8 that I tried to boot into a Linux Live CD, but could not get into BIOS to make it boot from her DVD first. But, her Ethernet card started working after a hard boot, so I got away with it. -T |
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#2
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Heads Up. Shutdown is not shutdown in W8
Todd wrote:
Hi All, Just a heads up. Shutdown is not shutdown. It is actually log off and hibernate. Reboot is the same. So good luck trying to get into BIOS or trying to get some device drivers to activate or trying to unscramble a screwed up OS. This is the marketing guys at M$ telling the engineers that W8 takes too long to shutdown and/or start up. Bad idea. Should have given the user both options: hard shutdown and log off and hibernate. To do an actual shutdown, open a command prompt and enter shutdown /s Then hold your breath. It won't give you an indication that anything is happening for about 20 seconds. This was the only way I got a customer's Ethernet card to see her Ethernet cable. Never did figure out the magic keystrokes to get into BIOS (new HP laptop). Got every other thing: diagnostics, recovery, yada, yada, yada. Got so ****ed at W8 that I tried to boot into a Linux Live CD, but could not get into BIOS to make it boot from her DVD first. But, her Ethernet card started working after a hard boot, so I got away with it. -T I run my Windows 8 with powercfg -h off Makes getting to the BIOS easier. Other info here. http://superuser.com/questions/49945...r-on-windows-8 HTH, Paul |
#3
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Heads Up. Shutdown is not shutdown in W8
Todd wrote:
This is the marketing guys at M$ telling the engineers that W8 takes too long to shutdown and/or start up. Bad idea. Should have given the user both options: hard shutdown and log off and hibernate. If I tell the computer to shut down, I expect it to *SHUT DOWN*, not go into low power mode. Once it's done shutting down, I usually turn the power bar off, so just going into standby would be... bad. -- They'll vomit blood. -- Fitz (98 KUPD) |
#4
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Heads Up. Shutdown is not shutdown in W8
Auric__ wrote:
Todd wrote: This is the marketing guys at M$ telling the engineers that W8 takes too long to shutdown and/or start up. Bad idea. Should have given the user both options: hard shutdown and log off and hibernate. If I tell the computer to shut down, I expect it to *SHUT DOWN*, not go into low power mode. Once it's done shutting down, I usually turn the power bar off, so just going into standby would be... bad. Hibernate isn't a low power mode, it's zero power mode, after hybrid shutdown you're perfectly free to turn the power-bar off with no ill effects. |
#5
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Heads Up. Shutdown is not shutdown in W8
Andy Burns wrote:
Auric__ wrote: Todd wrote: This is the marketing guys at M$ telling the engineers that W8 takes too long to shutdown and/or start up. Bad idea. Should have given the user both options: hard shutdown and log off and hibernate. If I tell the computer to shut down, I expect it to *SHUT DOWN*, not go into low power mode. Once it's done shutting down, I usually turn the power bar off, so just going into standby would be... bad. Hibernate isn't a low power mode, it's zero power mode, after hybrid shutdown you're perfectly free to turn the power-bar off with no ill effects. Ah, my bad. My brain hid the word "hibernate" from me. Still, I don't want hibernate to be the default poweroff thing either. (If I *want* hibernation, I will *select* hibernation.) -- It's all going to be written off anyway. It's not like I own any of this stuff. |
#6
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Heads Up. Shutdown is not shutdown in W8
Auric__ wrote:
Still, I don't want hibernate to be the default poweroff thing either. (If I *want* hibernation, I will *select* hibernation.) They hybrid shutdown saves 5 seconds at boot on my laptop, I haven't timed how much (if any) it saves on shutdown, unfortunately I had to disable hybrid shutdown as it makes the machine unreliable at doing the final power-off, not good when the machine is going to get stuffed into a laptop bag .. but odd given that actual hibernate works 100% on the same machine. I have found a MS article on debugging the issue, but not bothered to go through it yet for the sake of 5 seconds. |
#7
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Heads Up. Shutdown is not shutdown in W8
On 01/13/2013 11:40 PM, Todd wrote:
Hi All, Just a heads up. Shutdown is not shutdown. It is actually log off and hibernate. Reboot is the same. So good luck trying to get into BIOS or trying to get some device drivers to activate or trying to unscramble a screwed up OS. This is the marketing guys at M$ telling the engineers that W8 takes too long to shutdown and/or start up. Bad idea. Should have given the user both options: hard shutdown and log off and hibernate. To do an actual shutdown, open a command prompt and enter shutdown /s Then hold your breath. It won't give you an indication that anything is happening for about 20 seconds. This was the only way I got a customer's Ethernet card to see her Ethernet cable. Never did figure out the magic keystrokes to get into BIOS (new HP laptop). Got every other thing: diagnostics, recovery, yada, yada, yada. Got so ****ed at W8 that I tried to boot into a Linux Live CD, but could not get into BIOS to make it boot from her DVD first. But, her Ethernet card started working after a hard boot, so I got away with it. -T My notes on how to change the behavior: -T Disable fast startup via the Shutdown settings in Win8's Power Options menu. Open the Win8 Control Panel and click Hardware and Sound/Power Options/System Settings. Scroll to the bottom of the dialog box and deselect Turn On Fast Startup |
#8
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Heads Up. Shutdown is not shutdown in W8
My notes on how to change the behavior:
-T Disable fast startup via the Shutdown settings in Win8's Power Options menu. Open the Win8 Control Panel and click Hardware and Sound/Power Options/System Settings. Scroll to the bottom of the dialog box and deselect Turn On Fast Startup Oh, don't go doing this too fast. See my next post on "Heads up: when off isn't off, it will wake up to do updates" -T |
#9
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Heads Up. Shutdown is not shutdown in W8
On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 23:40:54 -0800, Todd wrote:
Hi All, Just a heads up. Shutdown is not shutdown. It is actually log off and hibernate. Reboot is the same. So good luck trying to get into BIOS or trying to get some device drivers to activate or trying to unscramble a screwed up OS. This is the marketing guys at M$ telling the engineers that W8 takes too long to shutdown and/or start up. Bad idea. Should have given the user both options: hard shutdown and log off and hibernate. To do an actual shutdown, open a command prompt and enter shutdown /s Then hold your breath. It won't give you an indication that anything is happening for about 20 seconds. This was the only way I got a customer's Ethernet card to see her Ethernet cable. Never did figure out the magic keystrokes to get into BIOS (new HP laptop). Got every other thing: diagnostics, recovery, yada, yada, yada. Got so ****ed at W8 that I tried to boot into a Linux Live CD, but could not get into BIOS to make it boot from her DVD first. But, her Ethernet card started working after a hard boot, so I got away with it. -T When I restart my Windows 8 computer I have no trouble pressing F2 to get into the BIOS setup, and I have done nothing to configure shutdown on that box. My main problem is that the settings screen is pretty limited on the cheap Dell that I have. -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#10
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Heads Up. Shutdown is not shutdown in W8
Shutdown works fine here from the Modern UI logon screen and the desktop (Alt F4 Shutdown) with no problems whatsoever accessing
the Bios on restart on desktop or laptop (both running Win8 Pro) -- ....winston msft mvp "Todd" wrote in message ... Hi All, Just a heads up. Shutdown is not shutdown. It is actually log off and hibernate. Reboot is the same. So good luck trying to get into BIOS or trying to get some device drivers to activate or trying to unscramble a screwed up OS. This is the marketing guys at M$ telling the engineers that W8 takes too long to shutdown and/or start up. Bad idea. Should have given the user both options: hard shutdown and log off and hibernate. To do an actual shutdown, open a command prompt and enter shutdown /s Then hold your breath. It won't give you an indication that anything is happening for about 20 seconds. This was the only way I got a customer's Ethernet card to see her Ethernet cable. Never did figure out the magic keystrokes to get into BIOS (new HP laptop). Got every other thing: diagnostics, recovery, yada, yada, yada. Got so ****ed at W8 that I tried to boot into a Linux Live CD, but could not get into BIOS to make it boot from her DVD first. But, her Ethernet card started working after a hard boot, so I got away with it. -T |
#11
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Heads Up. Shutdown is not shutdown in W8
On Mon, 14 Jan 2013 14:04:48 -0500, "..winston"
wrote: Shutdown works fine here from the Modern UI logon screen and the desktop (Alt F4 Shutdown) with no problems whatsoever accessing the Bios on restart on desktop or laptop (both running Win8 Pro) Yeah, mine shuts down by default also. Win8 Pro x64. |
#12
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Heads Up. Shutdown is not shutdown in W8
On 01/14/2013 02:39 PM, Oh Yeah wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2013 14:04:48 -0500, "..winston" wrote: Shutdown works fine here from the Modern UI logon screen and the desktop (Alt F4 Shutdown) with no problems whatsoever accessing the Bios on restart on desktop or laptop (both running Win8 Pro) Yeah, mine shuts down by default also. Win8 Pro x64. Is your "Turn On Fast Startup" unclicked? This would be an OEM modification. Interesting. |
#13
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Heads Up. Shutdown is not shutdown in W8
"Todd" wrote in message ... Is your "Turn On Fast Startup" unclicked? This would be an OEM modification. Interesting. If you are referring to 'Turn on Fast Startup' being checked or unchecked....it's not an OEM modification, it is a Windows feature. Its' also not entirely Hibernation...more appropriately it’s a hybrid shutdown (partial hibernate) that saves only the kernel session and device drivers to the hiberfil.sys file on disk instead of closing it when you shut down your PC (also the reason why Fast Startup doesn't apply to a Restart since it requires a full Shutdown). For Fast Startup to function Hibernate does need to be enabled. If not enabled the Fast Shutdown option is not present in 'Control Panel\Power Options\System Settings\Shutdown Options Fast Startup for a full shutdown, as you've noted earlier, can be disabled by unchecking 'Turn on fast startup' in the 'Shutdown Options'. Optionally, some folks prefer to just disable (or enable) Hibernate via an elevated command prompt. To disable or enable Hibernate via an admin command prompt: 1. Open a command prompt in elevated mode (Rt Click Command Prompt and choose Run As Administrator) 2. Enter the appropriate command powercfg -h off or powercfg -h on For what its worth...the difference for me on an Intel i3 Laptop/6GB Win8 Pro from a Power button start (after Shutdown) with or without Fast Shutdown when Hibernate is disabled or enabled is a whopping 7 seconds (6 seconds vs. 13 seconds). - Also (at least for me) neither changes the allotted time (about 2-3 sec) available to press F2 to access the BIOS. I'm also not seeing any wake-up (ever) with or without Fast Startup enabled...though iirc the primary contributors to that occurring a 1. PC bios configured to wake on lan (when the option is available) and/or 2. Automatic maintenance (Action Center/Maintenance/Automatic Maintenance/Allow scheduled maintenance to wake up my computer **Note: My Win8 is configured to run maintenance during daylight hours (9 am) and the majority of time circa 9 am, I'm usually doing other things (making coffee/breakfast, reading the newspaper) thus rarely impacted or subject to 'Windows interference'. We're all learning from each other...with a whole lot more knowledge being brought to the table daily. -- ....winston msft mvp |
#14
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Heads Up. Shutdown is not shutdown in W8
On 01/15/2013 12:04 AM, ..winston wrote:
"Todd" wrote in message ... Is your "Turn On Fast Startup" unclicked? This would be an OEM modification. Interesting. If you are referring to 'Turn on Fast Startup' being checked or unchecked....it's not an OEM modification, it is a Windows feature. Its' also not entirely Hibernation...more appropriately it’s a hybrid shutdown (partial hibernate) that saves only the kernel session and device drivers to the hiberfil.sys file on disk instead of closing it when you shut down your PC (also the reason why Fast Startup doesn't apply to a Restart since it requires a full Shutdown). For Fast Startup to function Hibernate does need to be enabled. If not enabled the Fast Shutdown option is not present in 'Control Panel\Power Options\System Settings\Shutdown Options Fast Startup for a full shutdown, as you've noted earlier, can be disabled by unchecking 'Turn on fast startup' in the 'Shutdown Options'. Optionally, some folks prefer to just disable (or enable) Hibernate via an elevated command prompt. To disable or enable Hibernate via an admin command prompt: 1. Open a command prompt in elevated mode (Rt Click Command Prompt and choose Run As Administrator) 2. Enter the appropriate command powercfg -h off or powercfg -h on For what its worth...the difference for me on an Intel i3 Laptop/6GB Win8 Pro from a Power button start (after Shutdown) with or without Fast Shutdown when Hibernate is disabled or enabled is a whopping 7 seconds (6 seconds vs. 13 seconds). - Also (at least for me) neither changes the allotted time (about 2-3 sec) available to press F2 to access the BIOS. I'm also not seeing any wake-up (ever) with or without Fast Startup enabled...though iirc the primary contributors to that occurring a 1. PC bios configured to wake on lan (when the option is available) and/or 2. Automatic maintenance (Action Center/Maintenance/Automatic Maintenance/Allow scheduled maintenance to wake up my computer **Note: My Win8 is configured to run maintenance during daylight hours (9 am) and the majority of time circa 9 am, I'm usually doing other things (making coffee/breakfast, reading the newspaper) thus rarely impacted or subject to 'Windows interference'. We're all learning from each other...with a whole lot more knowledge being brought to the table daily. Hi Winston, Cool. Thank you. I will be writing this stuff down in my keepers. -T |
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