Windows 8.1 User accounts

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 16:26:54 -0400, . . .winston wrote:

Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 02:38:20 -0400, . . .winston wrote:

Gene E. Bloch wrote:

1. You are right - my user account can change the Administrator password
w/o knowledge of the current password.

Was that user account was a standard user account ?

No, it was an admin account. I didn't even bother with testing a
standard account.


Which then raises the question...if one wishes to keep other user's from
changing things on a system, why not password protect the Admin account
and create standard users accounts for the others.

As I've done. The full Administrator account and the Administrator user
are both PW protected. No one else will know those passwords.

But note that I haven't done the experiment mentioned. It's reasonable
to assume what you've assumed, but not demonstrated (by me ATM).

And I am also not sure if that is good enough for Joe User.

Anyway, I have another challenge right now, so I won't be doing it.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On 20/09/14 21:26, . . .winston wrote:
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 02:38:20 -0400, . . .winston wrote:

Gene E. Bloch wrote:

1. You are right - my user account can change the Administrator
password
w/o knowledge of the current password.

Was that user account was a standard user account ?

No, it was an admin account. I didn't even bother with testing a
standard account.


Which then raises the question...if one wishes to keep other user's from
changing things on a system, why not password protect the Admin account
and create standard users accounts for the others.

Here's the thing. It is possible to arrange things so that a normal user
can elevate themselves to admin status. The circumstances are specific
but it can be done.

It appears to be the case that the default 'hardcoded' unprotected
Administrator account exists for just such a purpose or so I have been
told by a[n apparent] microsoft 'spokesman' on the support forum.

I can arrange this in a way that doesn't really reflect the general
state of affairs on a 'normal' system and I have been told that it is
possible in, but have been unable to reproduce the situation in, more
normal conditions.

I'm still working on this and will post the results here in the hope of
getting them validated.

I have to say I find it hard to believe it's possible.

--
Not confused, just ... bewildered

Joe User wrote:
On 20/09/14 21:26, . . .winston wrote:
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 02:38:20 -0400, . . .winston wrote:

Gene E. Bloch wrote:

1. You are right - my user account can change the Administrator
password
w/o knowledge of the current password.

Was that user account was a standard user account ?

No, it was an admin account. I didn't even bother with testing a
standard account.


Which then raises the question...if one wishes to keep other user's from
changing things on a system, why not password protect the Admin account
and create standard users accounts for the others.

Here's the thing. It is possible to arrange things so that a normal user
can elevate themselves to admin status. The circumstances are specific
but it can be done.

It appears to be the case that the default 'hardcoded' unprotected
Administrator account exists for just such a purpose or so I have been
told by a[n apparent] microsoft 'spokesman' on the support forum.

I can arrange this in a way that doesn't really reflect the general
state of affairs on a 'normal' system and I have been told that it is
possible in, but have been unable to reproduce the situation in, more
normal conditions.

I'm still working on this and will post the results here in the hope of
getting them validated.

I have to say I find it hard to believe it's possible.

Joe, thanks for the those details.

Have you a link for that support forum discussion with the apparent MSFT
spokesman's comments ?



--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

On 21/09/14 07:05, . . .winston wrote:
Joe User wrote:
On 20/09/14 21:26, . . .winston wrote:
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 02:38:20 -0400, . . .winston wrote:

Gene E. Bloch wrote:

1. You are right - my user account can change the Administrator
password
w/o knowledge of the current password.

Was that user account was a standard user account ?

No, it was an admin account. I didn't even bother with testing a
standard account.


Which then raises the question...if one wishes to keep other user's from
changing things on a system, why not password protect the Admin account
and create standard users accounts for the others.

Here's the thing. It is possible to arrange things so that a normal user
can elevate themselves to admin status. The circumstances are specific
but it can be done.

It appears to be the case that the default 'hardcoded' unprotected
Administrator account exists for just such a purpose or so I have been
told by a[n apparent] microsoft 'spokesman' on the support forum.

I can arrange this in a way that doesn't really reflect the general
state of affairs on a 'normal' system and I have been told that it is
possible in, but have been unable to reproduce the situation in, more
normal conditions.

I'm still working on this and will post the results here in the hope of
getting them validated.

I have to say I find it hard to believe it's possible.

Joe, thanks for the those details.

Have you a link for that support forum discussion with the apparent MSFT
spokesman's comments ?

Of course, would you mind if I finished my discussion with him first?
It might muddy the waters if others add comments. Give it 48 hours and
I'll post the link, you can check the dates when you view the thread.


--
Not confused, just ... bewildered

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 13:42:21 -0700, Gene E. Bloch wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 16:26:54 -0400, . . .winston wrote:

Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 02:38:20 -0400, . . .winston wrote:

Gene E. Bloch wrote:

1. You are right - my user account can change the Administrator password
w/o knowledge of the current password.

Was that user account was a standard user account ?

No, it was an admin account. I didn't even bother with testing a
standard account.


Which then raises the question...if one wishes to keep other user's from
changing things on a system, why not password protect the Admin account
and create standard users accounts for the others.

As I've done. The full Administrator account and the Administrator user
are both PW protected. No one else will know those passwords.

But note that I haven't done the experiment mentioned. It's reasonable
to assume what you've assumed, but not demonstrated (by me ATM).

And I am also not sure if that is good enough for Joe User.

Anyway, I have another challenge right now, so I won't be doing it.

OK, that other challenge is resolved (enough to do my task, but not
finished), so I did the experiment.

If I switch user to a Standard (non-Admin) user, I can change that
user's password, but the dialog requires me to enter that user's
existing password first.

In that user's user-management Control Panel, I can choose to Manage
another account, and I can click on Change Password there. But the
dialog won't open unless I enter an Administrator password. I am
presented with edit boxes to enter either the PW for the Administrator
or the PW for an Administrator level account.

So without knowing an Administrator's password, a Standard User is
locked out of any other user's password dialog. Nonetheless, that
Standard User *can* change an Administrator password if he knows at
least one of those PWs to get in with.

It could be worse :-)

Joe User, are you reading this too?

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 15:58:07 -0700, Gene E. Bloch wrote:

Joe User, are you reading this too?

Having read Joe User's latest thread, I now hope the answer is and
remains "No".

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)