Microsoft Bob and Cortana

On Sat, 31 Jan 2015 13:47:55 -0800, T wrote:

Hahm I just finished tidying up a friends computer a half hour ago - it was
a mess.

I installed Libre, (RE)installed MBam and CC Cleaner

Tell the truth I find it hard jockeying around 8.1 -
He had a problem and went back to the retailer - who put McAfee on it
(charged him for it) and told him that should fix 'everything' -
In order to 'fix' everything, he uninstalled MBam, Spybot S&D, and left bits
all over the place.

Now his machine is reduced to a crawl - &^%%$£ing

This sort of thing seems to be a fairly common result of taking a
computer to a shop to get it fixed. I once worked on an ISP helpdesk,
where I had to deal all day every day with with computers that
wouldn't connect to the internet. Sometimes the customer would say
that the fault couldn't possibly be their computer because they'd just
got it back from a repair shop so it must be working properly. I soon
learned that in these cases the first place to direct the customer was
the Device Manager, where it would almost invariably become clear that
several devices were missing their drivers.

The lesson would appear to be that if you have any problems with a
computer, don't take it near a computer shop, but do your best to
learn how to deal with it yourself.

Rod.


Hi Rod,

I see that all the time. And, I fix it all the time.

What you are describing sound like a reinstall of the OS
and the tech forgot to make sure all the drivers were
installed. When I come across something like that, I often
will boot into an Xfce Fedora Live DVD, which has excellent
Ethernet card support, and go find the drivers the customer
is missing.

In my case, the telephone support desk I was working on was purely to
do with the provision of the internet service, and it wasn't part of
the job to fix computers. In fact, we were specifically told not to.
The customers' equipment was their own responsibility, and if we
wasted too much time on somebody's faulty PC we would be depriving
other paying customers of the service they actually were paying for.
Of course we could guide them through all the standard network-related
settings, and give a bit of general advice when relevant, but missing
drivers or buggy software were our excuse not to get involved.

It's astonishing how many people seem to have "a friend of a friend
who knows about computers" and are perfectly happy to allow them to
meddle with something so personal and so vital, but I would have
expected better service from proper PC sales and repair companies. I
have heard one very well-known name mentioned on many occasions.

Ironically, the most difficult thing in this scenario was not
technical at all, but the task of making the customer understand the
problem. They don't want to be told that their computer is faulty, and
this is the point at which they would usually stop listening (and
sometimes start shouting). Quite a lot can be tested from an ISP's
call centre desk, in that you can often be about 99.9% certain the
service is working, but it's impossible to be 100% certain without a
working computer on the end of it, and that's up to it's owner.

The real lesson is to find a competent professional.
That goes for all professionals, not just computer guys.

Too true.

Rod.

On 02/01/2015 01:57 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jan 2015 13:47:55 -0800, T wrote:

Hahm I just finished tidying up a friends computer a half hour ago - it was
a mess.

I installed Libre, (RE)installed MBam and CC Cleaner

Tell the truth I find it hard jockeying around 8.1 -
He had a problem and went back to the retailer - who put McAfee on it
(charged him for it) and told him that should fix 'everything' -
In order to 'fix' everything, he uninstalled MBam, Spybot S&D, and left bits
all over the place.

Now his machine is reduced to a crawl - &^%%$£ing

This sort of thing seems to be a fairly common result of taking a
computer to a shop to get it fixed. I once worked on an ISP helpdesk,
where I had to deal all day every day with with computers that
wouldn't connect to the internet. Sometimes the customer would say
that the fault couldn't possibly be their computer because they'd just
got it back from a repair shop so it must be working properly. I soon
learned that in these cases the first place to direct the customer was
the Device Manager, where it would almost invariably become clear that
several devices were missing their drivers.

The lesson would appear to be that if you have any problems with a
computer, don't take it near a computer shop, but do your best to
learn how to deal with it yourself.

Rod.


Hi Rod,

I see that all the time. And, I fix it all the time.

What you are describing sound like a reinstall of the OS
and the tech forgot to make sure all the drivers were
installed. When I come across something like that, I often
will boot into an Xfce Fedora Live DVD, which has excellent
Ethernet card support, and go find the drivers the customer
is missing.

In my case, the telephone support desk I was working on was purely to
do with the provision of the internet service, and it wasn't part of
the job to fix computers. In fact, we were specifically told not to.
The customers' equipment was their own responsibility, and if we
wasted too much time on somebody's faulty PC we would be depriving
other paying customers of the service they actually were paying for.
Of course we could guide them through all the standard network-related
settings, and give a bit of general advice when relevant, but missing
drivers or buggy software were our excuse not to get involved.

Hi Rod,

I always love it when I get a guy like you on the other end. My
favorite tests to ask for are loop back tests and bit error rate tests.
I love ask them to check my signal levels. Some times it takes
guys like you and me on both ends to fix problems, especially
if internal routers at the ISP are involved.

Some ISPs though are really sorry affairs. I can not even get them to
ping my customer's modem, let alone do a traceroute. They freak if
I ask for a TCP SYN traceroute. AAAAHHHHHHH!!!!

I work with on particular local ISP who sends me out on their
real hard cases. The problems vary all over the place. and
a surprising amount of the time, the problem is the ISP or
their equipment (I never get called out on the easy ones, which
are usually the customer's fault). They are a blast to
troubleshoot.

Charter drives me nuts are they are a bunch of liars when it
comes them putting artificial blocks on ports with their
firewalls to try to force people working from home into
into business accounts. Especially when I can trace the
dropped packet to their exact firewall and/or router.

But, occasionally I get a guy like you on the other end
and it is pure fun!



It's astonishing how many people seem to have "a friend of a friend
who knows about computers" and are perfectly happy to allow them to
meddle with something so personal and so vital,

Amen!

That and a serious disrespect for what others do for
a living.

but I would have
expected better service from proper PC sales and repair companies. I
have heard one very well-known name mentioned on many occasions.

If you are thinking the Geek Squad, they really, really suck.

Ironically, the most difficult thing in this scenario was not
technical at all, but the task of making the customer understand the
problem. They don't want to be told that their computer is faulty, and
this is the point at which they would usually stop listening (and
sometimes start shouting).

Been there, had that happen to me. I feel your pain! :'(

Quite a lot can be tested from an ISP's
call centre desk, in that you can often be about 99.9% certain the
service is working, but it's impossible to be 100% certain without a
working computer on the end of it, and that's up to it's owner.

If their employers will train them on it and actually
let them use it! "What is a ping?" "What is a SYN
Packet?" "We do not blocks ports." "What is a port?"

One time it took 45 minutes of arguing with a tech to
find if a modem was under warranty or not! "Are the
light on in the front of the modem?" His employer
insisted he read a check list and he could not deviate
or he would lose his job. AAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!

With a lot of these problems, I will boot into Linux with a
live CD or a Live USB that I have customized to my taste.
Linux has all the cool networking tools. When I do
networking projects for a customer, I almost always
get things working in Linux first, before messing with
all of Windows weirds gotchas.

In Linux Live, I can also eliminate the customer's hardware
as the problem. (I once identified a really nasty video
card as a problem, which surprised me. I could of swore
it was a corrupted Windows driver.)

The real lesson is to find a competent professional.
That goes for all professionals, not just computer guys.

Too true.

Rod.


I live to get guys like you on the other end. I hate trouble
shooting something when I don't know who's equipment is at
fault.

By the way, most of the problems you are noting is caused
by a disease called CABDs: Cheap Asses Buzzard Disease
The "B" might not stand for "Buzzard".

-T

On 02/01/2015 01:57 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jan 2015 13:47:55 -0800, T wrote:

Hahm I just finished tidying up a friends computer a half hour ago - it was
a mess.

I installed Libre, (RE)installed MBam and CC Cleaner

Tell the truth I find it hard jockeying around 8.1 -
He had a problem and went back to the retailer - who put McAfee on it
(charged him for it) and told him that should fix 'everything' -
In order to 'fix' everything, he uninstalled MBam, Spybot S&D, and left bits
all over the place.

Now his machine is reduced to a crawl - &^%%$£ing

This sort of thing seems to be a fairly common result of taking a
computer to a shop to get it fixed. I once worked on an ISP helpdesk,
where I had to deal all day every day with with computers that
wouldn't connect to the internet. Sometimes the customer would say
that the fault couldn't possibly be their computer because they'd just
got it back from a repair shop so it must be working properly. I soon
learned that in these cases the first place to direct the customer was
the Device Manager, where it would almost invariably become clear that
several devices were missing their drivers.

The lesson would appear to be that if you have any problems with a
computer, don't take it near a computer shop, but do your best to
learn how to deal with it yourself.

Rod.


Hi Rod,

I see that all the time. And, I fix it all the time.

What you are describing sound like a reinstall of the OS
and the tech forgot to make sure all the drivers were
installed. When I come across something like that, I often
will boot into an Xfce Fedora Live DVD, which has excellent
Ethernet card support, and go find the drivers the customer
is missing.

In my case, the telephone support desk I was working on was purely to
do with the provision of the internet service, and it wasn't part of
the job to fix computers. In fact, we were specifically told not to.
The customers' equipment was their own responsibility, and if we
wasted too much time on somebody's faulty PC we would be depriving
other paying customers of the service they actually were paying for.
Of course we could guide them through all the standard network-related
settings, and give a bit of general advice when relevant, but missing
drivers or buggy software were our excuse not to get involved.

Hi Rod,

I always love it when I get a guy like you on the other end. My
favorite tests to ask for are loop back tests and bit error rate tests.
I love ask them to check my signal levels. Some times it takes
guys like you and me on both ends to fix problems, especially
if internal routers at the ISP are involved.

Some ISPs though are really sorry affairs. I can not even get them to
ping my customer's modem, let alone do a traceroute. They freak if
I ask for a TCP SYN traceroute. AAAAHHHHHHH!!!!

I work with on particular local ISP who sends me out on their
real hard cases. The problems vary all over the place. and
a surprising amount of the time, the problem is the ISP or
their equipment (I never get called out on the easy ones, which
are usually the customer's fault). They are a blast to
troubleshoot.

Charter drives me nuts are they are a bunch of liars when it
comes them putting artificial blocks on ports with their
firewalls to try to force people working from home into
into business accounts. Especially when I can trace the
dropped packet to their exact firewall and/or router.

But, occasionally I get a guy like you on the other end
and it is pure fun!



It's astonishing how many people seem to have "a friend of a friend
who knows about computers" and are perfectly happy to allow them to
meddle with something so personal and so vital,

Amen!

That and a serious disrespect for what others do for
a living.

but I would have
expected better service from proper PC sales and repair companies. I
have heard one very well-known name mentioned on many occasions.

If you are thinking the Geek Squad, they really, really suck.

Ironically, the most difficult thing in this scenario was not
technical at all, but the task of making the customer understand the
problem. They don't want to be told that their computer is faulty, and
this is the point at which they would usually stop listening (and
sometimes start shouting).

Been there, had that happen to me. I feel your pain! :'(

Quite a lot can be tested from an ISP's
call centre desk, in that you can often be about 99.9% certain the
service is working, but it's impossible to be 100% certain without a
working computer on the end of it, and that's up to it's owner.

If their employers will train them on it and actually
let them use it! "What is a ping?" "What is a SYN
Packet?" "We do not blocks ports." "What is a port?"

One time it took 45 minutes of arguing with a tech to
find if a modem was under warranty or not! "Are the
light on in the front of the modem?" His employer
insisted he read a check list and he could not deviate
or he would lose his job. AAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!

With a lot of these problems, I will boot into Linux with a
live CD or a Live USB that I have customized to my taste.
Linux has all the cool networking tools. When I do
networking projects for a customer, I almost always
get things working in Linux first, before messing with
all of Windows weirds gotchas.

In Linux Live, I can also eliminate the customer's hardware
as the problem. (I once identified a really nasty video
card as a problem, which surprised me. I could of swore
it was a corrupted Windows driver.)

The real lesson is to find a competent professional.
That goes for all professionals, not just computer guys.

Too true.

Rod.


I live to get guys like you on the other end. I hate trouble
shooting something when I don't know who's equipment is at
fault.

By the way, most of the problems you are noting is caused
by a disease called CABDs: Cheap Asses Buzzard Disease
The "B" might not stand for "Buzzard".

-T

On 01/31/2015 02:55 PM, Tommy wrote:
"T" wrote in message ...
On 01/30/2015 03:41 PM, Tommy wrote:
"T" wrote in message
...
On 01/29/2015 04:05 PM, Tommy wrote:


Also, you may have junkware out the nose. Junkware makes
you really S-L-O-W. I love both these two tools (run them
both, one picks up what the other misses), plus MBam to
finish it off. You can find both of these at bleeping
as well:

Junkware Removal Tool's web site:
http://thisisudax.org/


http://www.giga.de/downloads/junkwar...campaign=Badge



Adw Cleaner:
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/download/adwcleaner/

https://toolslib.net/downloads/viewd.../1-adwcleaner/


Also, you can create an Xfce Fedora 21 Live DVD to test
his hardware and to give you an idea of how a solid
operating system is suppose to operate:

https://spins.fedoraproject.org/xfce/#downloads

I use the Live DVD all the time for troubleshooting
and data recovery on Windows machines.

Love to know how everything turns out.

-T


I left in your useful url's, in case someone else needs them :-)

I use either "Dustbuster" or PC decrap...(both on Bleeping)
One or two caveats though
Only ever download from the authors page (or Bleepingcomputer if its
noted there)
Do a backup first before running any _cleaning tools_
And most if not all these crap cleaners work best when installed on a
virgin machine -
Although they will clean up extraneous rubbish :-)

http://the-pc-decrapifier.en.lo4d.com/

Hi Tommy,

I haven't had good luck with decrapifier other than
loving the name. Found it removing things it shouldn't.
I must have been doing something wrong

I decided to leave him with Mcafee - he is not very internet savvy - he
promised to call me about once a month for a tidy up, and will
definitely let me know when the years subscription is up. Just as a fyi
for anyone thats still with us :-) ... Mcafee shows up over 60
services when I checked - I showed him this and he half-undertands so
'we' decided its worth the delay if it keeps him safe.

I would have gone with MSE (M$ Security Essentials or what ever
it is called on Frankenstein [w8]). MSE sucks, but so does McAfee.
MSE doesn't interfere with much functionality.


He's a plumber so we cooperate nicely (I need 2 new radiators and also
replacement bathroom double taps)

I scored some farm fresh organic eggs last week. Sometimes
I get fed, but not very often.

Another hand 'startup' is TRK ie Trinity rescue kit - I swear by it -
hand if you lose your window password or your machine is so virus-ridden
it won't start - again a major caveat is "read the directions" -
http://trinityhome.org/Home/index.ph...E_KIT_DOWNLOAD

This sounds interesting. I will check it out. Thank you!

You would never believe the carp you kill by booting into
a live cd and whacking all three temp directories. Find it
makes it easier for the junk scanners to work.

Although one a really old laptop, since it took over five
minutes to register a mouse click, I told the guy just to toss
it and buy himself a new W7 laptop (not w8).

Sounds like you kicked butt. Awesome.

-T

Cheers
Tommy

On 01/31/2015 02:55 PM, Tommy wrote:
"T" wrote in message ...
On 01/30/2015 03:41 PM, Tommy wrote:
"T" wrote in message
...
On 01/29/2015 04:05 PM, Tommy wrote:


Also, you may have junkware out the nose. Junkware makes
you really S-L-O-W. I love both these two tools (run them
both, one picks up what the other misses), plus MBam to
finish it off. You can find both of these at bleeping
as well:

Junkware Removal Tool's web site:
http://thisisudax.org/


http://www.giga.de/downloads/junkwar...campaign=Badge



Adw Cleaner:
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/download/adwcleaner/

https://toolslib.net/downloads/viewd.../1-adwcleaner/


Also, you can create an Xfce Fedora 21 Live DVD to test
his hardware and to give you an idea of how a solid
operating system is suppose to operate:

https://spins.fedoraproject.org/xfce/#downloads

I use the Live DVD all the time for troubleshooting
and data recovery on Windows machines.

Love to know how everything turns out.

-T


I left in your useful url's, in case someone else needs them :-)

I use either "Dustbuster" or PC decrap...(both on Bleeping)
One or two caveats though
Only ever download from the authors page (or Bleepingcomputer if its
noted there)
Do a backup first before running any _cleaning tools_
And most if not all these crap cleaners work best when installed on a
virgin machine -
Although they will clean up extraneous rubbish :-)

http://the-pc-decrapifier.en.lo4d.com/

Hi Tommy,

I haven't had good luck with decrapifier other than
loving the name. Found it removing things it shouldn't.
I must have been doing something wrong

I decided to leave him with Mcafee - he is not very internet savvy - he
promised to call me about once a month for a tidy up, and will
definitely let me know when the years subscription is up. Just as a fyi
for anyone thats still with us :-) ... Mcafee shows up over 60
services when I checked - I showed him this and he half-undertands so
'we' decided its worth the delay if it keeps him safe.

I would have gone with MSE (M$ Security Essentials or what ever
it is called on Frankenstein [w8]). MSE sucks, but so does McAfee.
MSE doesn't interfere with much functionality.


He's a plumber so we cooperate nicely (I need 2 new radiators and also
replacement bathroom double taps)

I scored some farm fresh organic eggs last week. Sometimes
I get fed, but not very often.

Another hand 'startup' is TRK ie Trinity rescue kit - I swear by it -
hand if you lose your window password or your machine is so virus-ridden
it won't start - again a major caveat is "read the directions" -
http://trinityhome.org/Home/index.ph...E_KIT_DOWNLOAD

This sounds interesting. I will check it out. Thank you!

You would never believe the carp you kill by booting into
a live cd and whacking all three temp directories. Find it
makes it easier for the junk scanners to work.

Although one a really old laptop, since it took over five
minutes to register a mouse click, I told the guy just to toss
it and buy himself a new W7 laptop (not w8).

Sounds like you kicked butt. Awesome.

-T

Cheers
Tommy