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Article on SOF (W10) patching



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 6th 15, 04:25 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,600
Default Article on SOF (W10) patching

Hi All,

The answer is "maybe":

http://www.infoworld.com/article/291...n-details.html

-T
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  #2  
Old May 6th 15, 04:27 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
T
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Posts: 4,600
Default Article on SOF (W10) patching

On 05/05/2015 08:25 PM, T wrote:
Hi All,

The answer is "maybe":

http://www.infoworld.com/article/291...n-details.html


-T



I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.
I said I didn't know.
--Mark Twain

  #3  
Old May 6th 15, 09:22 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Bill[_40_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 346
Default Article on SOF (W10) patching

In message , T writes

The answer is "maybe":

http://www.infoworld.com/article/291.../how-windows-1
0-updating-will-work-devils-in-details.html


Part of which surmises:

" •When the patch looks good, it'll go to Windows Insiders in the Fast
ring. (There may be a "Ludicrous ring" at some point, but there's been
no official word from Microsoft.)
•Once the Fast folks have hammered on it for a suitable amount of
time, the patch will go to the Windows Insiders Slow ring.
•Having passed Slow ring muster, the patch heads out in two directions.
•First, the Slow-approved patch goes out to all consumer Windows 10
customers -- the ones with "free" Windows. Consumers have no choice
about it; they will get the patch, thereby being updated to the "Current
branch." Presumably Windows 10 will have some mechanism for prohibiting
reboots at specific times of the day, but that's the extent of
individual customers' control. There will be no ability to shut off
automatic updates (short of permanently disconnecting from the
Internet), no provision for blocking specific updates, and no way to
roll back updates -- either one at a time, or en masse -- should they
cause problems. I haven't seen any official announcement that lays the
process out quite so starkly, but that seems to be where we're headed. "


The full article makes the update situation as currently being tested
sound much better than it is.

I'm bogged down in a Synaptics update situation at the moment where an
update cured a problem (not the major one that seems to have affected
others), then a new build came out which took the situation back to
where it was before, then yesterday there was another update. I haven't
had time to test yet.

Update history doesn't seem to have a scroll bar, so you get a page of
Defender updates and no clue as to whether you have the real updates
installed or not, no easy way of checking what they were and no easy way
of opting out.

And what do I do when W10 is 2 years old and I have the original
recovery disk or partition and my ssd wears out and needs a new one. I
recover from the media I have and then need 2 years of updates. My
experience is that these updates need to be done in the correct order or
in small batches to avoid recurrent update failures. An automatic system
will make this impossible.

I think I understand what Microsoft is trying to do - to get a mass user
base on the same universal up to date OS. The trouble is that as I see
things now Windows Update has become the game killer.

Also, what happens when the Windows Insiders get bored and gradually
drop out. Who will be testing for the great corporations then?

Still, to make this work, they will have to provide Insiders with a
current free OS on a permanent basis. I might sign up to that.
--
Bill
  #4  
Old May 6th 15, 11:48 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Roderick Stewart
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Posts: 456
Default Article on SOF (W10) patching

On Wed, 6 May 2015 09:22:48 +0100, Bill wrote:

I think I understand what Microsoft is trying to do - to get a mass user
base on the same universal up to date OS.


World domination in other words, as is usually, in one form or
another, the aim of the villains in the James Bond movies. It never
ends well for them.

The trouble is that as I see
things now Windows Update has become the game killer.


That's how it generally happens in the James Bond movies too. Whatever
the contribution of the hero, the world dominating villains are
ultimately undone by the magnitude of their own ambition.

Rod.
  #5  
Old May 6th 15, 04:46 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Char Jackson
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Posts: 10,449
Default Article on SOF (W10) patching

On Wed, 6 May 2015 09:22:48 +0100, Bill wrote:

And what do I do when W10 is 2 years old and I have the original
recovery disk or partition and my ssd wears out and needs a new one. I
recover from the media I have and then need 2 years of updates.


Within about 6 months (give or take) of installing the public release
version of W10, you put your original recovery disk away for safekeeping and
never use it again, unless you're restoring the system for disposal. Instead
of using that disc, you start thinking about using your own restore disk.
You know, the one(s) that you periodically make every 6 months or so.

My
experience is that these updates need to be done in the correct order or
in small batches to avoid recurrent update failures. An automatic system
will make this impossible.


I personally haven't ever seen any issues with letting the update process
take care of itself, so I never bother doing anything special like breaking
a larger number of updates into several smaller chunks. I'm aware that a few
others have had issues, though. As for an automatic update system making
that impossible, I think it might be the opposite. It might make updating
seamless and transparent.

There isn't a day that goes by without my Android phone telling me that such
and such apps were updated. It all happens seamlessly, in the background,
and so far there's never been an issue. So the model is there and it's now
down to whether MS can successfully do what Android does, although I'm
clearly mixing apps and OS here. Two different kettle of fish, but there are
still similarities.

Also, what happens when the Windows Insiders get bored and gradually
drop out. Who will be testing for the great corporations then?


The entire user base?

Still, to make this work, they will have to provide Insiders with a
current free OS on a permanent basis. I might sign up to that.


Why couldn't they do it with telemetry?

  #6  
Old May 6th 15, 08:51 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Bill[_40_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 346
Default Article on SOF (W10) patching

In message , Char Jackson
writes
On Wed, 6 May 2015 09:22:48 +0100, Bill wrote:

And what do I do when W10 is 2 years old and I have the original
recovery disk or partition and my ssd wears out and needs a new one. I
recover from the media I have and then need 2 years of updates.


Within about 6 months (give or take) of installing the public release
version of W10, you put your original recovery disk away for safekeeping and
never use it again, unless you're restoring the system for disposal. Instead
of using that disc, you start thinking about using your own restore disk.
You know, the one(s) that you periodically make every 6 months or so.

You may take a full system image every 6 months, but I don't know of
many "normal" users who do. I occasionally support small offices - say
10 computers. They do regular backups of the one that acts as the
"server", and maybe some machines, but most rely on the one original
image and/or the restore partition.
With most people I know, finding any disk is a huge problem, let alone
multiple images.
My
experience is that these updates need to be done in the correct order or
in small batches to avoid recurrent update failures. An automatic system
will make this impossible.


I personally haven't ever seen any issues with letting the update process
take care of itself, so I never bother doing anything special like breaking
a larger number of updates into several smaller chunks. I'm aware that a few
others have had issues, though. As for an automatic update system making
that impossible, I think it might be the opposite. It might make updating
seamless and transparent.

Well, that's not my experience.

There isn't a day that goes by without my Android phone telling me that such
and such apps were updated. It all happens seamlessly, in the background,
and so far there's never been an issue. So the model is there and it's now
down to whether MS can successfully do what Android does, although I'm
clearly mixing apps and OS here. Two different kettle of fish, but there are
still similarities.

One fishy kettle has an OS and small apps that update themselves on top
of it, the other kettles update the OS itself. I just booted up a Vista
laptop that I found under a pile of papers. It has just downloaded and
installed 80 updates, almost all to the OS itself.
When did you last have to reboot an Android tablet because of updates?

If you follow the W10 insider forums, you must have seen how many
different things are broken by each update, and how bad driver updates
re-install over and over again.
--
Bill
  #7  
Old May 7th 15, 06:29 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default Article on SOF (W10) patching

On Wed, 6 May 2015 20:51:58 +0100, Bill wrote:

In message , Char Jackson
writes
On Wed, 6 May 2015 09:22:48 +0100, Bill wrote:

And what do I do when W10 is 2 years old and I have the original
recovery disk or partition and my ssd wears out and needs a new one. I
recover from the media I have and then need 2 years of updates.


Within about 6 months (give or take) of installing the public release
version of W10, you put your original recovery disk away for safekeeping and
never use it again, unless you're restoring the system for disposal. Instead
of using that disc, you start thinking about using your own restore disk.
You know, the one(s) that you periodically make every 6 months or so.

You may take a full system image every 6 months, but I don't know of
many "normal" users who do. I occasionally support small offices - say
10 computers. They do regular backups of the one that acts as the
"server", and maybe some machines, but most rely on the one original
image and/or the restore partition.
With most people I know, finding any disk is a huge problem, let alone
multiple images.
My
experience is that these updates need to be done in the correct order or
in small batches to avoid recurrent update failures. An automatic system
will make this impossible.


I personally haven't ever seen any issues with letting the update process
take care of itself, so I never bother doing anything special like breaking
a larger number of updates into several smaller chunks. I'm aware that a few
others have had issues, though. As for an automatic update system making
that impossible, I think it might be the opposite. It might make updating
seamless and transparent.

Well, that's not my experience.

There isn't a day that goes by without my Android phone telling me that such
and such apps were updated. It all happens seamlessly, in the background,
and so far there's never been an issue. So the model is there and it's now
down to whether MS can successfully do what Android does, although I'm
clearly mixing apps and OS here. Two different kettle of fish, but there are
still similarities.

One fishy kettle has an OS and small apps that update themselves on top
of it, the other kettles update the OS itself. I just booted up a Vista
laptop that I found under a pile of papers. It has just downloaded and
installed 80 updates, almost all to the OS itself.
When did you last have to reboot an Android tablet because of updates?

If you follow the W10 insider forums, you must have seen how many
different things are broken by each update, and how bad driver updates
re-install over and over again.


Windows 10 hasn't been released yet. I'm not going to get too concerned
about it until it has.

  #8  
Old May 7th 15, 09:51 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Roderick Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 456
Default Article on SOF (W10) patching

On Thu, 07 May 2015 00:29:41 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

Windows 10 hasn't been released yet. I'm not going to get too concerned
about it until it has.


I already have Windows 7, so for the next five years I have no need to
be concerned about Windows 10 at all.

By then there's sure to be something good enough to replace it, and I
don't care if it's Microsoft or not as long as it works for me.

Rod.
  #9  
Old May 7th 15, 01:12 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Bill[_40_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 346
Default Article on SOF (W10) patching

In message , Roderick
Stewart writes
On Thu, 07 May 2015 00:29:41 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

Windows 10 hasn't been released yet. I'm not going to get too concerned
about it until it has.


I already have Windows 7, so for the next five years I have no need to
be concerned about Windows 10 at all.

By then there's sure to be something good enough to replace it, and I
don't care if it's Microsoft or not as long as it works for me.

.

I have always had a, probably vain (in both senses), regret that I
didn't get involved in something like beta testing of Windows 7, and
that I might have had a small chance of steering the audio parts of that
OS away from the mistakes.
If we don't try to influence the development by commenting, there's no
point in looking at the current W10 builds. Like the lottery, in it to
win it, you may have an infinitesimal chance of avoiding frustration,
but .........

The problem is that for the audio that I do, there's nothing better than
XP or W2k, and they are more than 5 years old.
--
Bill
  #10  
Old May 8th 15, 06:49 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
. . .winston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,345
Default Article on SOF (W10) patching

T wrote:
Hi All,

The answer is "maybe":

http://www.infoworld.com/article/291...n-details.html


-T


The most important piece of the article (writer's comments) is
qp
Worth noting: If you want to choose when you get patches, you will have
to pay for Windows 10 Pro or Enterprise. Consumer "core" Windows 10
users get updated, period, as best I can tell. And it isn't at all clear
if stand-alone Windows 10 Pro users can control their own patching
destiny -- customers may be forced to run a server and use something
like WSUS just to keep the wolves from the door.
/qp

Fyi...also yet to finalized....whether or not the free upgrade only
provides Core regardless of the existing Win7 Sp1 or 8.1 installed SKU.

The content can be viewed in the channel9.msdn video link I posted 2
days ago.

Requoted below...

" Hi, Paul and T
http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Ignite/2015/KEY01

Windows Update info
Scroll forward to the 2 hour 19-20 minute mark...the next presenter,
Terry Myerson, top Windows exec, covers WU on Win10.

The meat of the matter starts around 2:27 where it covers Enterprise
(mission-critical devices) and consumers (Windows-as-a-service) and
delivery methods (distribution rings) - note the 2 slides regarding
Windows 10 Update Approach (slide 1 for Mission critical, End-user
devices, Consumers)applicable. End-User devices (falls under Windows
Update for Busines - slide 2, Consumer does not) - Windows Update for
Business (free and applicable to Win 10 Pro and Enterprise (allows
choice and control) but apparently not necessarily for Consumer (e.g.
Windows Core).

Based on the above, Pro, if available to the consumer market would seem
to be the sole choice for WU control.

What everyone should keep an eye out for is the qualifying o/s(Win7,
Win8.1 Core and Pro) and the available upgrade paths to Win 10..e.g.
will Pro 7/8.1 upgrade to Pro 10."

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
  #11  
Old May 8th 15, 07:49 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,600
Default Article on SOF (W10) patching

On 05/07/2015 10:49 PM, . . .winston wrote:
The most important piece of the article (writer's comments) is
qp
Worth noting: If you want to choose when you get patches, you will have
to pay for Windows 10 Pro or Enterprise. Consumer "core" Windows 10
users get updated, period, as best I can tell. And it isn't at all clear
if stand-alone Windows 10 Pro users can control their own patching
destiny -- customers may be forced to run a server and use something
like WSUS just to keep the wolves from the door.
/qp

Fyi...also yet to finalized....whether or not the free upgrade only
provides Core regardless of the existing Win7 Sp1 or 8.1 installed SKU.


Hi Winston,

A real moving target.

The home edition s have always driven me crazy. Businesses just go
out and buy home edition as it is cheaper and never consider all
the features that are unavailable. They only look at the purchase
price. Above Pro, though, I consider overkill.

-T
  #12  
Old May 9th 15, 06:21 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
. . .winston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,345
Default Article on SOF (W10) patching

T wrote:
On 05/07/2015 10:49 PM, . . .winston wrote:
The most important piece of the article (writer's comments) is
qp
Worth noting: If you want to choose when you get patches, you will have
to pay for Windows 10 Pro or Enterprise. Consumer "core" Windows 10
users get updated, period, as best I can tell. And it isn't at all clear
if stand-alone Windows 10 Pro users can control their own patching
destiny -- customers may be forced to run a server and use something
like WSUS just to keep the wolves from the door.
/qp

Fyi...also yet to finalized....whether or not the free upgrade only
provides Core regardless of the existing Win7 Sp1 or 8.1 installed SKU.


Hi Winston,

A real moving target.

The home edition s have always driven me crazy. Businesses just go
out and buy home edition as it is cheaper and never consider all
the features that are unavailable. They only look at the purchase
price. Above Pro, though, I consider overkill.

-T


It's often challenging to predict with the ecosystem changing so rapidly.

While many might not like it...MSFT is gradually becoming a two o/s
support (one in mainstream, one in extended) organization. The days of
multiple o/s spread over a decade imo will be gone in the near future.
Once Windows 7 reaches EOL, it could very well be current released
version 10.x+1 and 10.x - same o/s (i.e. down to 1 o/s) just different
build versions and most likely, only the latest capable of getting
updates.
- From a support, budget, expense, manpower side of the equation, it
may actually make business sense.


I've had Home Editions on new laptop hardware (OEM units) until the
warranty ran out or I replaced and stored the original drive for
safekeeping during the warranty. My choice in either case has always
been Pro (except Vista, it was called Vista Business edition). Those
Home Editions ran fine, no complaints beyond occasionally missing the
features that came with the next-up-level o/s.


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
 




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