Solid State Drive/Windows 8

I bought a Win 8 Toshiba ultra laptop with a SATA 500GB drive and a solid
state 32GB drive. The description says the solid state drive is for the OS
use only:

http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/...oid=2000040281

My question is, do I install the apps on the SS drive? And if so, do I
need to change any folder settings, or do I just direct app installs to the
proper drive letter designation?

I haven't even turned on the laptop yet. Win 8 is new to me, as is the
best use of solid state drives.

TIA

Boris nospam nospam.invalid wrote:

I bought a Win 8 Toshiba ultra laptop with a SATA 500GB drive
and a solid state 32GB drive. The description says the solid
state drive is for the OS use only:

http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/...oid=2000040281

My question is, do I install the apps on the SS drive? And if
so, do I need to change any folder settings, or do I just direct
app installs to the proper drive letter designation?

The SSD is best for the operating system and applications. Keep
your multimedia on the large conventional drive. Of course that
assumes there is enough room on the SSD.

Looking at the description. It doesn't say "operating system use",
it says "system use". If I were you, I wouldn't worry about it,
just install programs wherever they are supposed to go. I haven't
messed with program paths in ages, and I wouldn't mess around on
that thing. It might not even let you. I would forget about
redirecting programs, instead I would concentrate on a good backup
scheme.

Good luck and have fun.

--













I haven't even turned on the laptop yet. Win 8 is new to me, as
is the best use of solid state drives.

TIA

John Doe wrote:
Boris nospam nospam.invalid wrote:

I bought a Win 8 Toshiba ultra laptop with a SATA 500GB drive
and a solid state 32GB drive. The description says the solid
state drive is for the OS use only:

http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/...oid=2000040281

My question is, do I install the apps on the SS drive? And if
so, do I need to change any folder settings, or do I just direct
app installs to the proper drive letter designation?

The SSD is best for the operating system and applications. Keep
your multimedia on the large conventional drive. Of course that
assumes there is enough room on the SSD.

Looking at the description. It doesn't say "operating system use",
it says "system use". If I were you, I wouldn't worry about it,
just install programs wherever they are supposed to go. I haven't
messed with program paths in ages, and I wouldn't mess around on
that thing. It might not even let you. I would forget about
redirecting programs, instead I would concentrate on a good backup
scheme.

Good luck and have fun.


(On the Toshiba web site, the thing that caught my eye, was that
the laptop uses the Intel RST driver. That's what guided my
search for details.)

http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/cont...U945-S4380.pdf

Processor and Graphics
Intel Core i3-3217U Processor (3MB Cache, 1.8GHz)
Mobile Intel HM77 Express Chipset
Mobile Intel HD Graphics with
64MB-1696MB dynamically allocated shared graphics memory

Storage Drive
500GB (5400 RPM) Serial ATA hard disk drive
with 32GB (system use only) solid state disk cache

*******

HM77 overview - Smart Response Technology is featured (this means nothing, other than the
Intel RST driver can implement caching transparently). So at least SRT
is available, and the RST driver would recognize it if the hardware was
available (like the small SSD).

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www...pset-brief.pdf

*******

Solid State Disk Cache = Intel Smart Response Technology (SRT)

http://www.pcworld.com/article/24882...h nology.html

"Smart Response Technology hides all or part of the SSD from the
operating system, and it caches data automatically. No additional
drive letters are necessary, and data moves dynamically to and from
the SSD based on individual usage patterns.

The result is a system that delivers SSD-like performance and
HDD-like capacities, without the user's having to manage multiple
drive letters."

That means, the feature is relatively transparent. The user "sees"
a 500GB drive, and most frequently used files are kept in the
cache.

*******

From the Anandtech review, there is an RST driver control panel,
that shows details of the cache.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4329/i...ching-review/2

"Unlike Seagate's Momentus XT, both reads and writes are cached
with SRT enabled.

Intel allows two modes of write caching: enhanced and maximized.

Enhanced mode makes the SSD cache behave as a write through cache,
where every write must hit both the SSD cache and hard drive before
moving on.

Whereas in maximized mode the SSD cache behaves more like a write
back cache, where writes hit the SSD and are eventually written back
to the hard drive but not immediately."

Subjectively, the automated caching makes the storage subsystem
feel like it's an SSD, but without the "SSD price".

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4329/i...ching-review/4

And the best part is, "you just use it" :-) LOL.
There's no need to worry about changing where you store stuff.

The RST driver should take care of ensuring the frequently used
files are in the cache.

The user still needs to back up the 500GB drive, as on
any other computer. And that's also what should appear in
disk management, is the hard drive part of it. The RST control
panel should provide any other details needed.

Paul

Paul wrote in :

John Doe wrote:
Boris nospam nospam.invalid wrote:

I bought a Win 8 Toshiba ultra laptop with a SATA 500GB drive
and a solid state 32GB drive. The description says the solid
state drive is for the OS use only:

http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/...oid=2000040281

My question is, do I install the apps on the SS drive? And if
so, do I need to change any folder settings, or do I just direct
app installs to the proper drive letter designation?

The SSD is best for the operating system and applications. Keep
your multimedia on the large conventional drive. Of course that
assumes there is enough room on the SSD.

Looking at the description. It doesn't say "operating system use",
it says "system use". If I were you, I wouldn't worry about it,
just install programs wherever they are supposed to go. I haven't
messed with program paths in ages, and I wouldn't mess around on
that thing. It might not even let you. I would forget about
redirecting programs, instead I would concentrate on a good backup
scheme.

Good luck and have fun.


(On the Toshiba web site, the thing that caught my eye, was that
the laptop uses the Intel RST driver. That's what guided my
search for details.)

http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/cont.../detailed_spec
s/satellite_U945-S4380.pdf

Processor and Graphics
Intel Core i3-3217U Processor (3MB Cache, 1.8GHz)
Mobile Intel HM77 Express Chipset
Mobile Intel HD Graphics with
64MB-1696MB dynamically allocated shared graphics memory

Storage Drive
500GB (5400 RPM) Serial ATA hard disk drive
with 32GB (system use only) solid state disk cache

*******

HM77 overview - Smart Response Technology is featured (this means
nothing, other than the
Intel RST driver can implement caching
transparently). So at least SRT is available, and the
RST driver would recognize it if the hardware was
available (like the small SSD).

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www...ts/product-bri
efs/hm77-mobile-chipset-brief.pdf

*******

Solid State Disk Cache = Intel Smart Response Technology (SRT)

http://www.pcworld.com/article/24882...smart_response
_ssd_caching_technology.html

"Smart Response Technology hides all or part of the SSD from the
operating system, and it caches data automatically. No additional
drive letters are necessary, and data moves dynamically to and
from the SSD based on individual usage patterns.

The result is a system that delivers SSD-like performance and
HDD-like capacities, without the user's having to manage multiple
drive letters."

That means, the feature is relatively transparent. The user "sees"
a 500GB drive, and most frequently used files are kept in the
cache.

*******

From the Anandtech review, there is an RST driver control panel,
that shows details of the cache.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4329/i...t-response-tec
hnology-ssd-caching-review/2

"Unlike Seagate's Momentus XT, both reads and writes are cached
with SRT enabled.

Intel allows two modes of write caching: enhanced and maximized.

Enhanced mode makes the SSD cache behave as a write through
cache, where every write must hit both the SSD cache and hard
drive before moving on.

Whereas in maximized mode the SSD cache behaves more like a write
back cache, where writes hit the SSD and are eventually written
back to the hard drive but not immediately."

Subjectively, the automated caching makes the storage subsystem
feel like it's an SSD, but without the "SSD price".

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4329/i...t-response-tec
hnology-ssd-caching-review/4

And the best part is, "you just use it" :-) LOL.
There's no need to worry about changing where you store stuff.

The RST driver should take care of ensuring the frequently used
files are in the cache.

The user still needs to back up the 500GB drive, as on
any other computer. And that's also what should appear in
disk management, is the hard drive part of it. The RST control
panel should provide any other details needed.

Paul


Hi, Paul,

I checked out the Toshiba Create Recovery Media last night (didn't create
anything), and it showed I had to use at least an 8.8GB USB flash drive,
and suggested using a 16GB one. I had purchased a new 8GB flash drive
just for this purpose, but will have to get a larger one.

My reading led me to believe that because this particular SSD is small
(32GB), it is indeed meant only for system use, and it's probably
configured to disallow installing anything else on it, as you point out.
And, if one reads the technical specs, it says

"Storage Drive6
.. 500GB (5400 RPM) Serial ATA hard disk drive with 32GB (system use
only) solid state disk cache"

The specs can be found he

http://tinyurl.com/bloqvvt

on the Detailed Specs tab.

I did look into Disk Management, and it shows two drives, one with three
partitioins, and one with one partition. In Device Manager, it shows two
raid 0 drives, that when you do a Properties on, it says something like
not connected, and that I should connect them. It also shows two other
drives, one is the 500GB hard drive. I'm not in front of the laptop now,
and I don't remember what the fourth drive showed. But I'll figure this
out. You see, this laptop is for my wife, to replace an old Dell
Inspiron 6400, circa 2007, running WinXP.

I used to know my way around WinXP pretty well, and then when I moved
some of my machines to Vista/Win7, I sort of stopped learning (heck, I
didn't have time to 'play' around). Now I'm wanting to get back into
knowing more about everything technical. I'm the 'admin' for all my kids
and parents, and in-laws.

Thanks for the reply. You'll be seeing a lot of me on this newsgroup
with Win8 questions.

Boris wrote:

Paul wrote
John Doe wrote:
Boris nospam nospam.invalid wrote:

I bought a Win 8 Toshiba ultra laptop with a SATA 500GB drive
and a solid state 32GB drive. The description says the solid
state drive is for the OS use only:

http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/...oid=2000040281

My question is, do I install the apps on the SS drive? And
if so, do I need to change any folder settings, or do I just
direct app installs to the proper drive letter designation?

The SSD is best for the operating system and applications.
Keep your multimedia on the large conventional drive. Of
course that assumes there is enough room on the SSD.

Looking at the description. It doesn't say "operating system
use", it says "system use". If I were you, I wouldn't worry
about it, just install programs wherever they are supposed to
go. I haven't messed with program paths in ages, and I
wouldn't mess around on that thing. It might not even let you.
I would forget about redirecting programs, instead I would
concentrate on a good backup scheme.

Good luck and have fun.


(On the Toshiba web site, the thing that caught my eye, was
that the laptop uses the Intel RST driver. That's what guided
my search for details.)

http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/cont...f_files/detail
ed_spec s/satellite_U945-S4380.pdf

Processor and Graphics
Intel Core i3-3217U Processor (3MB Cache, 1.8GHz)
Mobile Intel HM77 Express Chipset Mobile Intel HD
Graphics with
64MB-1696MB dynamically allocated shared graphics
memory

Storage Drive 500GB (5400 RPM) Serial ATA hard disk drive
with 32GB (system use only) solid state disk cache

*******

HM77 overview - Smart Response Technology is featured (this
means nothing, other than the
Intel RST driver can implement caching
transparently). So at least SRT is available,
and the RST driver would recognize it if the
hardware was available (like the small SSD).

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www...documents/prod
uct-bri efs/hm77-mobile-chipset-brief.pdf

*******

Solid State Disk Cache = Intel Smart Response Technology (SRT)

http://www.pcworld.com/article/24882..._intel_smart_r
esponse _ssd_caching_technology.html

"Smart Response Technology hides all or part of the SSD
from the
operating system, and it caches data automatically. No
additional drive letters are necessary, and data moves
dynamically to and from the SSD based on individual usage
patterns.

The result is a system that delivers SSD-like performance
and HDD-like capacities, without the user's having to
manage multiple drive letters."

That means, the feature is relatively transparent. The user
"sees" a 500GB drive, and most frequently used files are kept
in the cache.

*******

From the Anandtech review, there is an RST driver control
panel,
that shows details of the cache.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4329/i...et-smart-respo
nse-tec hnology-ssd-caching-review/2

"Unlike Seagate's Momentus XT, both reads and writes are
cached
with SRT enabled.

Intel allows two modes of write caching: enhanced and
maximized.

Enhanced mode makes the SSD cache behave as a write
through cache, where every write must hit both the SSD
cache and hard drive before moving on.

Whereas in maximized mode the SSD cache behaves more like
a write back cache, where writes hit the SSD and are
eventually written back to the hard drive but not
immediately."

Subjectively, the automated caching makes the storage subsystem
feel like it's an SSD, but without the "SSD price".

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4329/i...et-smart-respo
nse-tec hnology-ssd-caching-review/4

And the best part is, "you just use it" :-) LOL. There's no
need to worry about changing where you store stuff.

The RST driver should take care of ensuring the frequently used
files are in the cache.

The user still needs to back up the 500GB drive, as on any
other computer. And that's also what should appear in disk
management, is the hard drive part of it. The RST control panel
should provide any other details needed.

Paul


Hi, Paul,

I checked out the Toshiba Create Recovery Media last night
(didn't create anything), and it showed I had to use at least an
8.8GB USB flash drive, and suggested using a 16GB one. I had
purchased a new 8GB flash drive just for this purpose, but will
have to get a larger one.

My reading led me to believe that because this particular SSD is
small (32GB), it is indeed meant only for system use, and it's
probably configured to disallow installing anything else on it,
as you point out.

That was not pointed out, nothing is installed on it. What was
pointed out is that you use the 500 GB drive and you forget about
everything else.

And, if one reads the technical specs, it says

"Storage Drive6
. 500GB (5400 RPM) Serial ATA hard disk drive with 32GB (system
use only) solid state disk cache"

That's right, it's a cache. Nothing is installed on a cache, at
least not as far as a user is concerned. A user can generate a
cache. A user can copy files to a cache. But a user does not
install anything to a cache.

The specs can be found he

http://tinyurl.com/bloqvvt

on the Detailed Specs tab.

I did look into Disk Management, and it shows two drives, one
with three partitioins, and one with one partition. In Device
Manager, it shows two raid 0 drives, that when you do a
Properties on, it says something like not connected, and that I
should connect them. It also shows two other drives, one is the
500GB hard drive.

At most, your only concern is what is shown in file manager.
Of course you can do whatever you want to do, but you can stop
thinking about messing with it unless you want to wreck your
wife's system. Whether you can cope with it should have been
determined before it was purchased.

--













I'm not in front of the laptop now,
and I don't remember what the fourth drive showed. But I'll figure this
out. You see, this laptop is for my wife, to replace an old Dell
Inspiron 6400, circa 2007, running WinXP.

I used to know my way around WinXP pretty well, and then when I moved
some of my machines to Vista/Win7, I sort of stopped learning (heck, I
didn't have time to 'play' around). Now I'm wanting to get back into
knowing more about everything technical. I'm the 'admin' for all my kids
and parents, and in-laws.

Thanks for the reply. You'll be seeing a lot of me on this newsgroup
with Win8 questions.

John Doe wrote:
Boris wrote:

Paul wrote
John Doe wrote:
Boris nospam nospam.invalid wrote:

I bought a Win 8 Toshiba ultra laptop with a SATA 500GB drive
and a solid state 32GB drive. The description says the solid
state drive is for the OS use only:

http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/...oid=2000040281

My question is, do I install the apps on the SS drive? And
if so, do I need to change any folder settings, or do I just
direct app installs to the proper drive letter designation?
The SSD is best for the operating system and applications.
Keep your multimedia on the large conventional drive. Of
course that assumes there is enough room on the SSD.

Looking at the description. It doesn't say "operating system
use", it says "system use". If I were you, I wouldn't worry
about it, just install programs wherever they are supposed to
go. I haven't messed with program paths in ages, and I
wouldn't mess around on that thing. It might not even let you.
I would forget about redirecting programs, instead I would
concentrate on a good backup scheme.

Good luck and have fun.

(On the Toshiba web site, the thing that caught my eye, was
that the laptop uses the Intel RST driver. That's what guided
my search for details.)

http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/cont...f_files/detail
ed_spec s/satellite_U945-S4380.pdf

Processor and Graphics
Intel Core i3-3217U Processor (3MB Cache, 1.8GHz)
Mobile Intel HM77 Express Chipset Mobile Intel HD
Graphics with
64MB-1696MB dynamically allocated shared graphics
memory

Storage Drive 500GB (5400 RPM) Serial ATA hard disk drive
with 32GB (system use only) solid state disk cache

*******

HM77 overview - Smart Response Technology is featured (this
means nothing, other than the
Intel RST driver can implement caching
transparently). So at least SRT is available,
and the RST driver would recognize it if the
hardware was available (like the small SSD).

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www...documents/prod
uct-bri efs/hm77-mobile-chipset-brief.pdf

*******

Solid State Disk Cache = Intel Smart Response Technology (SRT)

http://www.pcworld.com/article/24882..._intel_smart_r
esponse _ssd_caching_technology.html

"Smart Response Technology hides all or part of the SSD
from the
operating system, and it caches data automatically. No
additional drive letters are necessary, and data moves
dynamically to and from the SSD based on individual usage
patterns.

The result is a system that delivers SSD-like performance
and HDD-like capacities, without the user's having to
manage multiple drive letters."

That means, the feature is relatively transparent. The user
"sees" a 500GB drive, and most frequently used files are kept
in the cache.

*******

From the Anandtech review, there is an RST driver control
panel,
that shows details of the cache.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4329/i...et-smart-respo
nse-tec hnology-ssd-caching-review/2

"Unlike Seagate's Momentus XT, both reads and writes are
cached
with SRT enabled.

Intel allows two modes of write caching: enhanced and
maximized.

Enhanced mode makes the SSD cache behave as a write
through cache, where every write must hit both the SSD
cache and hard drive before moving on.

Whereas in maximized mode the SSD cache behaves more like
a write back cache, where writes hit the SSD and are
eventually written back to the hard drive but not
immediately."

Subjectively, the automated caching makes the storage subsystem
feel like it's an SSD, but without the "SSD price".

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4329/i...et-smart-respo
nse-tec hnology-ssd-caching-review/4

And the best part is, "you just use it" :-) LOL. There's no
need to worry about changing where you store stuff.

The RST driver should take care of ensuring the frequently used
files are in the cache.

The user still needs to back up the 500GB drive, as on any
other computer. And that's also what should appear in disk
management, is the hard drive part of it. The RST control panel
should provide any other details needed.

Paul

Hi, Paul,

I checked out the Toshiba Create Recovery Media last night
(didn't create anything), and it showed I had to use at least an
8.8GB USB flash drive, and suggested using a 16GB one. I had
purchased a new 8GB flash drive just for this purpose, but will
have to get a larger one.

My reading led me to believe that because this particular SSD is
small (32GB), it is indeed meant only for system use, and it's
probably configured to disallow installing anything else on it,
as you point out.

That was not pointed out, nothing is installed on it. What was
pointed out is that you use the 500 GB drive and you forget about
everything else.

And, if one reads the technical specs, it says

"Storage Drive6
. 500GB (5400 RPM) Serial ATA hard disk drive with 32GB (system
use only) solid state disk cache"

That's right, it's a cache. Nothing is installed on a cache, at
least not as far as a user is concerned. A user can generate a
cache. A user can copy files to a cache. But a user does not
install anything to a cache.

The specs can be found he

http://tinyurl.com/bloqvvt

on the Detailed Specs tab.

I did look into Disk Management, and it shows two drives, one
with three partitioins, and one with one partition. In Device
Manager, it shows two raid 0 drives, that when you do a
Properties on, it says something like not connected, and that I
should connect them. It also shows two other drives, one is the
500GB hard drive.

At most, your only concern is what is shown in file manager.
Of course you can do whatever you want to do, but you can stop
thinking about messing with it unless you want to wreck your
wife's system. Whether you can cope with it should have been
determined before it was purchased.


Well, I'm curious about these things (even if I can't afford them).

It says here, the SSD used as cache, can be partitioned so
part of the SSD functions as cache, and the other part
can be used for ordinary storage. The ordinary storage portion,
manifests itself as a "single-disk RAID 0 volume".

"Intel Smart Response Technology User Guide"

http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/sb/CS-032826.htm

Presumably the status of that, will change if you use the
control panel.

http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/sb/img/srt1.jpg

It's also available as a (very short) PDF. I think the comments
in the Anandtech article, would help fill in the details, of
what operations or modifications are "safe" on the thing.
As it has two operating modes, and one is more reliant on
the flash not failing (i.e. writethru versus writeback).

http://download.intel.com/support/ch...er_guide_2.pdf

Paul

John Doe wrote in news:k89jc6$jjq$1@dont-
email.me:

At most, your only concern is what is shown in file manager.
Of course you can do whatever you want to do, but you can stop
thinking about messing with it unless you want to wreck your
wife's system. Whether you can cope with it should have been
determined before it was purchased.


Cope with it?

Boris nospam nospam.invalid wrote:

John Doe jdoe usenetlove.invalid wrote

Whether you can cope with it should have been determined before
it was purchased.

Cope with it?

Some of us have a tough time leaving well-enough alone.

Hi, Boris.

The link that you gave says that laptop has:
"500GB 5400 RPM storage + 32GB solid state cache"

NOT an SSD (Solid State DRIVE).

My question is, do I install the apps on the SS drive?

There is a fundamental difference between an SSD and a cache! The main
difference is that a cache is dynamic RAM. That means that it forgets
everything each time you turn off the power. It is meant only to hold
read/write data momentarily - for only a very short time (seconds?) - in the
pipeline from the CPU to/from the HDD (or SSD).

That's why it is for "system use only". If you somehow managed to create
and format a partition there and install a program or save some data, it
would all disappear when you restart or shut down the computer.

An SSD uses non-volatile or static RAM, which retains whatever is written to
it even after power is removed. Such as an SD memory card for a camera or a
USB jump drive.

I'm an accountant, not a techie, so my explanation may not be technically
correct, but I think it is close enough to answer your question.

RC
-- --
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3505.0912) in Win8


"Boris" wrote in message
.100...

I bought a Win 8 Toshiba ultra laptop with a SATA 500GB drive and a solid
state 32GB drive. The description says the solid state drive is for the OS
use only:

http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/...oid=2000040281

My question is, do I install the apps on the SS drive? And if so, do I
need to change any folder settings, or do I just direct app installs to the
proper drive letter designation?

I haven't even turned on the laptop yet. Win 8 is new to me, as is the
best use of solid state drives.

TIA

R. C. White wrote:
Hi, Boris.

The link that you gave says that laptop has:
"500GB 5400 RPM storage + 32GB solid state cache"

NOT an SSD (Solid State DRIVE).

My question is, do I install the apps on the SS drive?

There is a fundamental difference between an SSD and a cache! The main
difference is that a cache is dynamic RAM. That means that it forgets
everything each time you turn off the power. It is meant only to hold
read/write data momentarily - for only a very short time (seconds?) - in
the pipeline from the CPU to/from the HDD (or SSD).

That's why it is for "system use only". If you somehow managed to
create and format a partition there and install a program or save some
data, it would all disappear when you restart or shut down the computer.

An SSD uses non-volatile or static RAM, which retains whatever is
written to it even after power is removed. Such as an SD memory card
for a camera or a USB jump drive.

I'm an accountant, not a techie, so my explanation may not be
technically correct, but I think it is close enough to answer your
question.

RC
-- --
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3505.0912) in Win8

I think it is actually a SATA SSD. The Intel software implements
a cache strategy. And only if the chipset is one approved
to run the software (as the software and feature are an enticement
to use the chipsets in question).

If you wanted, you could dump the Intel RST driver, and set the
controller to non-RAID, and then two drives would show up,
one 500GB and one 32GB in size. A 32GB drive is a bit too small
to be practical for anything. My Windows 7 laptop, C: is shrunk
about as much as is practical, and that partition is 40GB. So I
doubt I could move the C: of my laptop, to such a small SSD. In
which case, running it as a cache drive, using the Intel RST
driver, is the next best thing.

Inside the laptop, the thing may not have a conventional look
to it. For example, if the 32GB drive looked like this, it
may not be suitable for repurposing in a desktop computer.
This thing may still have a SATA interface, but not official
SATA connectors. So they're free to package it as cheaply
as they wish. They make them modular (not soldered to the
laptop motherboard), so they can be replaced if they fail.

http://www.memoryc.com/images/produc...ache_14706.jpg

Another thing to notice about such small drives - reduced number
of flash channels. That drive would not have "barn burning transfer
performance". The peak transfer rate is likely rather modest. The
main advantage is the "zero seek time". Real SSD drives might have
eight channels (eight or sixteen chips), while that one could be
four channel.

Paul

Paul nospam needed.com wrote:

R. C. White wrote:
Hi, Boris.

The link that you gave says that laptop has: "500GB 5400 RPM
storage + 32GB solid state cache"

NOT an SSD (Solid State DRIVE).

My question is, do I install the apps on the SS drive?

There is a fundamental difference between an SSD and a cache!
The main difference is that a cache is dynamic RAM. That means
that it forgets everything each time you turn off the power.
It is meant only to hold read/write data momentarily - for only
a very short time (seconds?) - in the pipeline from the CPU
to/from the HDD (or SSD).

That's why it is for "system use only". If you somehow managed
to create and format a partition there and install a program or
save some data, it would all disappear when you restart or shut
down the computer.

An SSD uses non-volatile or static RAM, which retains whatever
is written to it even after power is removed. Such as an SD
memory card for a camera or a USB jump drive.

I'm an accountant, not a techie, so my explanation may not be
technically correct, but I think it is close enough to answer
your question.

I think it is actually a SATA SSD. The Intel software implements
a cache strategy. And only if the chipset is one approved to run
the software (as the software and feature are an enticement to
use the chipsets in question).

If you wanted, you could dump the Intel RST driver, and set the
controller to non-RAID,

At best, that sounds like pure speculation to me. Are you really
suggesting that the BIOS would allow that? Are you talking about
redesigning the laptop? Hardware modifications too?

and then two drives would show up, one 500GB and one 32GB in
size. A 32GB drive is a bit too small to be practical for
anything. My Windows 7 laptop, C: is shrunk about as much as is
practical, and that partition is 40GB. So I doubt I could move
the C: of my laptop, to such a small SSD. In which case, running
it as a cache drive, using the Intel RST driver, is the next
best thing.

Are you suggesting that it's marketing hype? Sounds like they are
using it to improve system performance, I'm sure they know what
they're doing. I can envision such an automated system. All you
have to do is put the most frequently read-accessed data on the
SSD. Dollar for dollar, I think it might even be better/faster
than using the thing as a separate drive for the OS and
applications. Sounds like they are beginning to adapt cache
technology to SSDs. Sounds good to me.

And, not all 32 GB drives are the same speed. You can get better
performance for less money with a smaller drive.

You could partition the 500 GB drive, or just add a folder, for
your multimedia and other user data storage.

--











Inside the laptop, the thing may not have a conventional look
to it. For example, if the 32GB drive looked like this, it
may not be suitable for repurposing in a desktop computer.
This thing may still have a SATA interface, but not official
SATA connectors. So they're free to package it as cheaply
as they wish. They make them modular (not soldered to the
laptop motherboard), so they can be replaced if they fail.

http://www.memoryc.com/images/produc...ache_14706.jpg

Another thing to notice about such small drives - reduced number
of flash channels. That drive would not have "barn burning transfer
performance". The peak transfer rate is likely rather modest. The
main advantage is the "zero seek time". Real SSD drives might have
eight channels (eight or sixteen chips), while that one could be
four channel.

Paul


Path: eternal-september.org!mx04.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Paul nospam needed.com
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-8
Subject: Solid State Drive/Windows 8
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 00:37:25 -0500
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John Doe wrote:
Paul nospam needed.com wrote:

R. C. White wrote:
Hi, Boris.

The link that you gave says that laptop has: "500GB 5400 RPM
storage + 32GB solid state cache"

NOT an SSD (Solid State DRIVE).

My question is, do I install the apps on the SS drive?
There is a fundamental difference between an SSD and a cache!
The main difference is that a cache is dynamic RAM. That means
that it forgets everything each time you turn off the power.
It is meant only to hold read/write data momentarily - for only
a very short time (seconds?) - in the pipeline from the CPU
to/from the HDD (or SSD).

That's why it is for "system use only". If you somehow managed
to create and format a partition there and install a program or
save some data, it would all disappear when you restart or shut
down the computer.

An SSD uses non-volatile or static RAM, which retains whatever
is written to it even after power is removed. Such as an SD
memory card for a camera or a USB jump drive.

I'm an accountant, not a techie, so my explanation may not be
technically correct, but I think it is close enough to answer
your question.

I think it is actually a SATA SSD. The Intel software implements
a cache strategy. And only if the chipset is one approved to run
the software (as the software and feature are an enticement to
use the chipsets in question).

If you wanted, you could dump the Intel RST driver, and set the
controller to non-RAID,

At best, that sounds like pure speculation to me. Are you really
suggesting that the BIOS would allow that? Are you talking about
redesigning the laptop? Hardware modifications too?

and then two drives would show up, one 500GB and one 32GB in
size. A 32GB drive is a bit too small to be practical for
anything. My Windows 7 laptop, C: is shrunk about as much as is
practical, and that partition is 40GB. So I doubt I could move
the C: of my laptop, to such a small SSD. In which case, running
it as a cache drive, using the Intel RST driver, is the next
best thing.

Are you suggesting that it's marketing hype? Sounds like they are
using it to improve system performance, I'm sure they know what
they're doing. I can envision such an automated system. All you
have to do is put the most frequently read-accessed data on the
SSD. Dollar for dollar, I think it might even be better/faster
than using the thing as a separate drive for the OS and
applications. Sounds like they are beginning to adapt cache
technology to SSDs. Sounds good to me.

And, not all 32 GB drives are the same speed. You can get better
performance for less money with a smaller drive.

You could partition the 500 GB drive, or just add a folder, for
your multimedia and other user data storage.


I'm attempting to explain what kind of device they might include.
It has to be something cheap. It can't be as good as a regular
SSD.

And it won't be one of these, which is made with SLC. The 32GB
one will be MLC based. I think this one may have been proposed
for the same purpose (cache).

"Larsen Creek 20GB 2.5" SATA II SLC"

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820167062

That one has five chips.

http://hexus.net/tech/news/storage/3...ssd-disclosed/

And this is the MSATA version of 20GB Larsen Creek.

http://www.digital-flash.com/catalog...ntelSSD311.png

A cheaper, competing msata MLC version, holds 32GB, but uses the
same kind of chip count. read: 143MB/s, write: 65MB/s
One of these is around $50. Larsen Creek might be twice
as much, because of the SLC. In bulk, these will be
well less than $50.

http://www.digital-flash.com/catalog...TSXGMSA310.png

The MSATA form factor would be preferred, for size reasons.
If you use a full size 2.5" drive, you almost need two drive bays.
(Unless you make one deep bay, with two connectors for SSD/HDD.)

Paul

Paul nospam needed.com wrote:

I'm attempting to explain what kind of device they might
include. It has to be something cheap. It can't be as good as a
regular SSD.

And it won't be one of these, which is made with SLC. The 32GB
one will be MLC based. I think this one may have been proposed
for the same purpose (cache).

My Intel 520 is MLC. I see little talk about the difference these
days. Everybody is using MLC.

--












Paul

On 11/18/2012 11:37 PM, Paul wrote:
... A 32GB drive is a bit too small
to be practical for anything. My Windows 7 laptop, C: is shrunk
about as much as is practical, and that partition is 40GB. So I
doubt I could move the C: of my laptop, to such a small SSD. In
which case, running it as a cache drive, using the Intel RST
driver, is the next best thing.

Actually Windows 7 only needs 16GB to install and after being installed
sits at about 9GB in size. I know this because I only had 4GB and 8GB
SSD at the time and I had to purchase a 16GB SSD just to install Windows 7.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8

On 11/16/2012, Boris posted:
I bought a Win 8 Toshiba ultra laptop with a SATA 500GB drive and a solid
state 32GB drive. The description says the solid state drive is for the OS
use only:

http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/...oid=2000040281

My question is, do I install the apps on the SS drive? And if so, do I
need to change any folder settings, or do I just direct app installs to the
proper drive letter designation?

I haven't even turned on the laptop yet. Win 8 is new to me, as is the
best use of solid state drives.

TIA

After reading this thread and after (finally!) reading the specs on the
Toshiba site you linked us to, I side with all of the people who say
that your 32 GB "SSD" is *definitely* a cache built in to the 500 GB
drive and it is *definitely* not accessible to you.

Here's a copy and paste directly from the specs on that site:
"Hard Drive
500GB HDD (5400 RPM, Serial ATA) with 32GB (system use only) solid
state disk cache"

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)