Is there a retail version of 64-bit Windows 8 Pro?

On 12/15/2012 1:50 PM, Yes wrote:
Under the EULA for the prior versions (say, for example,
Windows XP), the retail version allowed the purchaser to move the O/S
to newer machines. The OEM version did not; if you upgraded your CPU,
for example, you had to buy a new license

The EULA says you *may* not move XP to another computer but you *can*
and become Genuine and activate without problems. All you have to do is
wait 120 days after the last activation and then you can install it on
another machine because MS wipes the slate clean every 120 days. I don't
know if it's the same with 8 but I don't plan to buy 8 of any flavor.

--
Alias

On 12/14/2012 12:34 PM, ..winston wrote:
Then the op gets nothing....which is more important that what news
reader a poster chose to use to reply.

Full retail versions like they were for previous o/s will no longer be
available from MSFT or resellers.

The full retail version and the OEM System Builder versions available as
separate products in the past are now combined into one single package -
Personal Use System Builder Version (the OEM tag is no longer used by
MSFT but is being used by resellers).

Unlike previous full retail versions (which included 32 bit and 64 bit
DVDs) and like previous OEM System Builder versions the Win8 Personal
Use - System Builder versions only come in 32 bit or 64 bit packages
(i.e. only one DVD 32 or 64 bit but not both)

Purchased the upgrade for windows 8 download from Microsoft with the
cd/dvd and when the package was finally delivered it contained both 32
and 64bit versions.I thought you only got what was recognized by the
original download.

...winston wrote:

[:] Responses inline

"VanguardLH" wrote in message ...

So now everyone that buys a non-bundled OEM copy (what an OEM bundles
with their hardware) of Windows gets a system builder version?
[:] Yes

So, after installing the personal-use system builder version on one
computer, are users permitted to migrate that license to another
computer? Or are all licences post-Windows 7 now tied to a specific
computer as were the prior OEM and system builder licenses?


http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/lice...e-license.aspx

From that article, it looks like users are now phucked regarding
resale of the license when they no longer want it.

Q. What happens if I build a PC with a Personal Use License, then
later decide to sell it?
A. You may transfer the software to another computer that belongs to
you.
So this is how the retail license worked before (for your use on a
different one of your computers).

You may also transfer the software (together with the license) to a
computer owned by someone else if a) you are the first licensed user
of the software and b) the new user agrees to the terms of this
agreement.

That is different than the old retail license. There was no having to
track who was the "first licensed user". A retail license could be
resold any number of times. User #1 builds their host, builds another
but wants a later version of Windows, so he sells off his old retail
license. User #2 buys the license but never uses it (a newer version
already came out or he never build or bought another host on which to
use that license), so he sells it off. User #3 buys the license, puts
on his computer, his computer burns up in a fire, he decides to go
with some other OS, and sells off the license. User #4 now has the
license. With this new licensing scheme for the "personal-use"
system builder license, users #3 and #4 have illegal copies. Users
#3 and #4 have no way of knowing user #2 was not the "first licensed
user". Even resellers that sell to other resellers or to users that
never use the license but resell it are going to generate havoc
regarding what is or is not a valid license. None of them know if
from whom they purchased was the "first licensed user" or not.

Microsoft is certainly muddying its licensing. No one will know if
the seller was the first licensed user. Hell, even the seller
probably won't know.

[:] See Ed Bott's articles for an understanding of MSFT Win8 licensing

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-radic...-8-7000002866/
and

http://www.zdnet.com/how-the-new-win...ou-7000003028/


Unlike previous full retail versions (which included 32 bit and 64
bit DVDs) and like previous OEM System Builder versions the Win8
Personal Use - System Builder versions only come in 32 bit or 64 bit
packages (i.e. only one DVD 32 or 64 bit but not both)

So owners of 64-bit software that originally get the 64-bit edition of
Windows 8 who decide they need the 32-bit edition because of 64-bit
driver problems or lack of them or programs that don't like 64-bit
mode will have to buy another license for the 32-bit edition of
Windows 8? If they can't move forward to 64-bit to match their
hardware but find software is lacking, they have to re-pay to move
backward to 32-bit. Oh what a wonderful scheme.
[:] Just like they did with OEM System versions in the past
- only 32 or 64 bit per purchase.



http://pcsupport.about.com/b/2012/10...it-64-bit.htm:
When you download Windows 8 Pro Upgrade from Microsoft, you'll get
the 64-bit version if it's compatible with your computer. If not,
you'll get the 32-bit download. If you purchase a Windows 8 Pro
Upgrade from a retail store or online, you can choose which you'd
like to install once you get it home.
and
System Builder versions of Windows 8 are packaged separately so
you'll need to decide on 32-bit vs 64-bit prior to your purchase.
[:] Yes

Tis likely most users have 64-bit capable hardware when they download
the upgrade but that might be the version they want. That Windows can
use 64-bit mode doesn't mean the user's drivers and apps support it.
Sounds like you're saying users could end up having to pay for 2
upgrades: the 64-bit edition because they have 64-bit hardware and the
32-bit version because they still need to run 32-bit mode on their
64-bit hardware. Oh joy. Most users won't know there will be a
problem with the 64-bit version until after they install it and then
start installing drivers and apps. Then it's too late and they'll
have to pay again to get the 32-bit edition.
[:] When purchasing an upgrade a link is provided via email to
download in the future. - the pc used to access it determines the
bit-ness of the download - Note: you only get one license per
purchase, not the right to download and install both on separate
hardware. i.e. you need both, you pay for both.

Windows 8 is getting even less inviting.

@Winston, hard to tell if the line "Windows 8 is getting even less
inviting" is yours agreeing with Vanguard or is Vanguard's (he wrote
that in his post to which you replied). My newsreader is a bit old in
the tooth but works quite well for 99% of what I read.

Regardless, both Vanguard's and your comments, especially the links
were useful to read. I'm digesting them now.

I suppose my worries will come down, like it did with earlier Windows
versions, as to what Microsoft chooses to define as a 'computer'. I'm
one of what seems to be the increasingly rare group who assemble their
own computers and upgrade the individual parts as needed or desired.
The articles in the links don't really address if switching one of the
components in one's pc makes it a 'new' computer as far as the license
is concerned.

It certainly seems like one could argue that, if I were to uninstall
the Windows 8 O/S, switch out the part (CPU, RAM, etc) and then install
the O/S, that that would comply with the terms described in the article
(I forget which one atm). Of course, to my thinking, that is just pure
BS to conform with the letter of the law whereas the spirit would be to
be able to install the new equipment without going through such hoops.
But the way things go these days, I wouldn't trust Microsoft or other
companies not to try to enforce something like that.

I digress, though. The question about the license is basic for me
rather than the technical merits of Windows 8 and arguments about its
technical benefits and disadvantages relative to earlier versions. I
want a license that will stay with me and my pc over time as I replace
the individual parts in my pc, not one that says changing something in
the box makes it a new computer and therefore needs a new license. One
of the articles mentioned a third type of license called Full Packaged
Product. I'll need to look for more info about that beyond what's in
that article.

Drew wrote:

On 12/14/2012 12:34 PM, ..winston wrote:
Then the op gets nothing....which is more important that what news
reader a poster chose to use to reply.

Full retail versions like they were for previous o/s will no
longer be available from MSFT or resellers.

The full retail version and the OEM System Builder versions
available as separate products in the past are now combined into
one single package - Personal Use System Builder Version (the OEM
tag is no longer used by MSFT but is being used by resellers).

Unlike previous full retail versions (which included 32 bit and 64
bit DVDs) and like previous OEM System Builder versions the Win8
Personal Use - System Builder versions only come in 32 bit or 64
bit packages (i.e. only one DVD 32 or 64 bit but not both)

Purchased the upgrade for windows 8 download from Microsoft with the
cd/dvd and when the package was finally delivered it contained both
32 and 64bit versions.I thought you only got what was recognized by
the original download.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the DVD had both.

Alias wrote:

On 12/15/2012 1:50 PM, Yes wrote:
Under the EULA for the prior versions (say, for example,
Windows XP), the retail version allowed the purchaser to move the
O/S to newer machines. The OEM version did not; if you upgraded
your CPU, for example, you had to buy a new license

The EULA says you may not move XP to another computer but you can and
become Genuine and activate without problems. All you have to do is
wait 120 days after the last activation and then you can install it
on another machine because MS wipes the slate clean every 120 days. I
don't know if it's the same with 8 but I don't plan to buy 8 of any
flavor.

I didn't know about the 120 day period. That works for me because I
use Win XP Pro. Fortunately, the last time I did a clean install (due
to new hd) was about two or three years ago - knock on wood :-)

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:02:55 -0500, "..winston"
wrote:

Microsoft, unlike earlier version of Windows (7, Vista, XP) will not be providing a stand-alone retail version of Windows 8.

In the past MSFT provided full retail versions of their o/s and also an OEM System Builder version. With the advent of Windows 8.
- The full version retail and the OEM System Builder version is now one single package called Windows 8 Personal Use - System
Builder version (while web sites are marketing the version with an OEM tag, in MSFT speak the OEM term was dropped).

Thus if you wish a full retail version of Win8 64bit you do have to purchase the Personal Use System Builder 64 bit version.


Thanks very much for that info. I hadn't realized that.


--
Ken Blake

On 12/15/2012 3:48 PM, Yes wrote:
Alias wrote:

On 12/15/2012 1:50 PM, Yes wrote:
Under the EULA for the prior versions (say, for example,
Windows XP), the retail version allowed the purchaser to move the
O/S to newer machines. The OEM version did not; if you upgraded
your CPU, for example, you had to buy a new license

The EULA says you may not move XP to another computer but you can and
become Genuine and activate without problems. All you have to do is
wait 120 days after the last activation and then you can install it
on another machine because MS wipes the slate clean every 120 days. I
don't know if it's the same with 8 but I don't plan to buy 8 of any
flavor.

I didn't know about the 120 day period. That works for me because I
use Win XP Pro. Fortunately, the last time I did a clean install (due
to new hd) was about two or three years ago - knock on wood :-)


If it's been that long, no need to knock on wood.

--
Alias

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 14:01:44 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

I digress, though. The question about the license is basic for me
rather than the technical merits of Windows 8 and arguments about its
technical benefits and disadvantages relative to earlier versions. I
want a license that will stay with me and my pc over time as I replace
the individual parts in my pc, not one that says changing something in
the box makes it a new computer and therefore needs a new license.

I'm in exactly the same boat.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

Don't confuse licensing with product activation....the latter necessary to ensure it continues to operate in full feature mode.

IF you change enough components then the need for activation will kick in requiring it to be done online or via phone with the
latter possibly involving a voice call with MSFT.

Lol...I don't make the rules but Ed Bott did a wonderful job or providing the different scenarios for the OEM built (e.g. Dell,
HP), upgrade, or full version Personal Use...anything that deviates from those possibilities while technically possible doesn't
change MSFT position.


The 'less inviting' comment was VanguardLH's , I missed snipping that comment.

'Full package product' only applies to the earlier full retail versions of earlier o/s (e.g. Win7 full retail with 32 and 64 bit
DVD)...those full package products are no longer available and are now replaced with the Personal Use Licenser for System Builder
versions which include a 32 ***or** 64 bit DVD but not both.


--
....winston
msft mvp


"Yes" wrote in message ...

Regardless, both Vanguard's and your comments, especially the links
were useful to read. I'm digesting them now.

I suppose my worries will come down, like it did with earlier Windows
versions, as to what Microsoft chooses to define as a 'computer'. I'm
one of what seems to be the increasingly rare group who assemble their
own computers and upgrade the individual parts as needed or desired.
The articles in the links don't really address if switching one of the
components in one's pc makes it a 'new' computer as far as the license
is concerned.

It certainly seems like one could argue that, if I were to uninstall
the Windows 8 O/S, switch out the part (CPU, RAM, etc) and then install
the O/S, that that would comply with the terms described in the article
(I forget which one atm). Of course, to my thinking, that is just pure
BS to conform with the letter of the law whereas the spirit would be to
be able to install the new equipment without going through such hoops.
But the way things go these days, I wouldn't trust Microsoft or other
companies not to try to enforce something like that.

I digress, though. The question about the license is basic for me
rather than the technical merits of Windows 8 and arguments about its
technical benefits and disadvantages relative to earlier versions. I
want a license that will stay with me and my pc over time as I replace
the individual parts in my pc, not one that says changing something in
the box makes it a new computer and therefore needs a new license. One
of the articles mentioned a third type of license called Full Packaged
Product. I'll need to look for more info about that beyond what's in
that article.

I don't see why this continues to confuse folks.

Upgrade:
- If you purchase and upgrade from MSFT you have the option to download 32 or 64 bit at any time...the only catch is that you
obtain the desired bit-ness is to use a pc of the same bit-ness.
- If you purchase an upgrade from MSFT you also have the option (with additional cost) to obtain the DVD's...which will include
both 32 and 64 bit versions.
- If you purchase the upgrade packaged product in a retail store (e.g. Best Buy, Staples, etc) or online your delivered package
will contain both 32 and 64 bit DVD's

Full version: Personal Use License System Builder version
- purchasing this product only provides 32 or 64 bit DVD. If you want both, you need to purchase both.

OEM built machines: (e.g. Dell, HP, etc.)
- you get what they provide...usually no DVD with the ability to restore the machine to factory condition either via a Recovery
partition on the machine, a DVD for recovery, or a DVD for recovery in conjunction with the Recovery partition on the machine.

--
....winston
msft mvp


"Drew" wrote in message ...

On 12/14/2012 12:34 PM, ..winston wrote:
Then the op gets nothing....which is more important that what news
reader a poster chose to use to reply.

Full retail versions like they were for previous o/s will no longer be
available from MSFT or resellers.

The full retail version and the OEM System Builder versions available as
separate products in the past are now combined into one single package -
Personal Use System Builder Version (the OEM tag is no longer used by
MSFT but is being used by resellers).

Unlike previous full retail versions (which included 32 bit and 64 bit
DVDs) and like previous OEM System Builder versions the Win8 Personal
Use - System Builder versions only come in 32 bit or 64 bit packages
(i.e. only one DVD 32 or 64 bit but not both)

Purchased the upgrade for windows 8 download from Microsoft with the
cd/dvd and when the package was finally delivered it contained both 32
and 64bit versions.I thought you only got what was recognized by the
original download.

Robin Bignall wrote:

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 14:01:44 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

--snipped--

I'm in exactly the same boat.

Robin,

After spending a few hours using the links provided by VanguardLH
and/or ..winston (sorry, it's still not clear to me which one) but
here's what seems to shake out.

The key phrases are "System Builder" AND "Personal Use License"


Recapping:

Ed Bott in "Microsoft radically overhauls license agreements for
Windows 8" references "Personal Use License" ... "for Windows 8 Pro"
towards the end of the page

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-radic...-8-7000002866/


Ed Bott later wrote another article "How the new Windows 8 license
terms affect you" with a Q&A format that gives some more insight

http://www.zdnet.com/how-the-new-win...p2-7000003028/


Tim Fisher in "What To Do: Windows 8 Pro, Standard, RT, Upgrade, System
Builder, 32-bit, 64-bit, ..." gives his synopsis of the Windows 8 O/S
options Microsoft offers.

http://pcsupport.about.com/b/2012/10...bit-64-bit.htm


All this led me to Microsoft's site. There is a section devoted to
their OEM Partners.

http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/prod...-overview.aspx


Underneath the heading "Licensing and Anti-Piracy", finally, there is a
link to "Personal Use License" which at the bottom has a FAQ including
a link to their Personal Use License website

"Personal Use License" page
http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/EN/LICE...e-license.aspx

Personal Use License website
http://www.windows.com/personaluselicense

So it seems as though one can use the System Builder version for
personal use so long as he/she also accepts the Pesonal Use License.
It wasn't a trivial exercise to find this info, but at least the links
helped to identify what to search for.


FWIW
Using the Fisher article, it seems that the O/S version appropriate for
me, if I do buy it, is
Microsoft FQC-05956 Windows 8 Pro Operating System Software - 64-Bit,
OEM
the product code, at least one that generated a useful number of hits
in Google, is FQC-05956
My understanding is that this would be the product that you would use
to install on a pc that does not already have a Windows O/S installed.
You would install it from scratch.

I found other people commiserating about the sorry state of info
Microsoft Windows 8

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/w...4-2235322437e1

I got closer to some answers about what's available in this posting
that asked "Where can I buy w8 pro x64 system builder online?":
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/w...d1a9d52?auth=1

Hope this helps you make a decision. Apologies about being
long-winded, but I still feel that trying to understand Microsoft
explanations is like a trip to the dentist to get teeth fixed - painful
in the extreme with possibility to have to repeat some time in the
future.

P.S.: I'm not sure that I've helped you, now that I think about it.
All my effort has been focused on the personal/non-commercial aspect.
I don't know how applicable it is to business if that's the angle you
were considering. Oh well :-(

And not to be confused with the 32 or 64 bit iso available from MSDN/TechNet subscriptions where as of July 16, the license for use
for current subscriptions for certain MSDN/Technet plans is for the duration of the subscription (not necessarily in perpetuity
like pre Jul 16 obtained software/keys for those same type of MSDN/Technet Plans).


--
....winston
msft mvp


"Ken Blake" wrote in message ...

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:02:55 -0500, "..winston"
wrote:

Microsoft, unlike earlier version of Windows (7, Vista, XP) will not be providing a stand-alone retail version of Windows 8.

In the past MSFT provided full retail versions of their o/s and also an OEM System Builder version. With the advent of Windows 8.
- The full version retail and the OEM System Builder version is now one single package called Windows 8 Personal Use - System
Builder version (while web sites are marketing the version with an OEM tag, in MSFT speak the OEM term was dropped).

Thus if you wish a full retail version of Win8 64bit you do have to purchase the Personal Use System Builder 64 bit version.


Thanks very much for that info. I hadn't realized that.


--
Ken Blake

...winston wrote:

I don't see why this continues to confuse folks.

Upgrade:
- If you purchase and upgrade from MSFT you have the option to
download 32 or 64 bit at any time...the only catch is that you obtain
the desired bit-ness is to use a pc of the same bit-ness.
--snipped--

Yes, that is the gotcha I ran into. My existing system is 32-bit. I
want the next O/S I move to to be 64-bit. But Microsoft's upgrade path
is for like to like, NOT 32-bit to 64-bit. The upgrade path was
therefore not an option for my pc according to Microsoft site info.

Therefore I was looking for the 64-bit version in order to do a clean
install from scratch. Windows 8 (the standard version) does not
interest me. For technical reasons, I want some of the features that
Windows 8 Pro offers, but the enterprise edition would be overkill.
Given this, therefore, Windows 8 Pro 64-bit was the sole choice from
what Microsoft offers that otherwise met my criteria.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 18:12:15 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

Robin Bignall wrote:

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 14:01:44 +0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

--snipped--

I'm in exactly the same boat.

Robin,

After spending a few hours using the links provided by VanguardLH
and/or ..winston (sorry, it's still not clear to me which one) but
here's what seems to shake out.

The key phrases are "System Builder" AND "Personal Use License"


Recapping:

Ed Bott in "Microsoft radically overhauls license agreements for
Windows 8" references "Personal Use License" ... "for Windows 8 Pro"
towards the end of the page

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-radic...-8-7000002866/


Ed Bott later wrote another article "How the new Windows 8 license
terms affect you" with a Q&A format that gives some more insight

http://www.zdnet.com/how-the-new-win...p2-7000003028/


Tim Fisher in "What To Do: Windows 8 Pro, Standard, RT, Upgrade, System
Builder, 32-bit, 64-bit, ..." gives his synopsis of the Windows 8 O/S
options Microsoft offers.

http://pcsupport.about.com/b/2012/10...bit-64-bit.htm


All this led me to Microsoft's site. There is a section devoted to
their OEM Partners.

http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/prod...-overview.aspx


Underneath the heading "Licensing and Anti-Piracy", finally, there is a
link to "Personal Use License" which at the bottom has a FAQ including
a link to their Personal Use License website

"Personal Use License" page
http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/EN/LICE...e-license.aspx

Personal Use License website
http://www.windows.com/personaluselicense

So it seems as though one can use the System Builder version for
personal use so long as he/she also accepts the Pesonal Use License.
It wasn't a trivial exercise to find this info, but at least the links
helped to identify what to search for.


FWIW
Using the Fisher article, it seems that the O/S version appropriate for
me, if I do buy it, is
Microsoft FQC-05956 Windows 8 Pro Operating System Software - 64-Bit,
OEM
the product code, at least one that generated a useful number of hits
in Google, is FQC-05956
My understanding is that this would be the product that you would use
to install on a pc that does not already have a Windows O/S installed.
You would install it from scratch.

I found other people commiserating about the sorry state of info
Microsoft Windows 8

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/w...4-2235322437e1

I got closer to some answers about what's available in this posting
that asked "Where can I buy w8 pro x64 system builder online?":
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/w...d1a9d52?auth=1

Hope this helps you make a decision. Apologies about being
long-winded, but I still feel that trying to understand Microsoft
explanations is like a trip to the dentist to get teeth fixed - painful
in the extreme with possibility to have to repeat some time in the
future.

P.S.: I'm not sure that I've helped you, now that I think about it.
All my effort has been focused on the personal/non-commercial aspect.
I don't know how applicable it is to business if that's the angle you
were considering. Oh well :-(

Just a home user, and this post is most definitely one to keep. Thanks.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 12:53:21 -0500, "..winston"
wrote:

Don't confuse licensing with product activation....the latter necessary to ensure it continues to operate in full feature mode.

IF you change enough components then the need for activation will kick in requiring it to be done online or via phone with the
latter possibly involving a voice call with MSFT.

Lol...I don't make the rules but Ed Bott did a wonderful job or providing the different scenarios for the OEM built (e.g. Dell,
HP), upgrade, or full version Personal Use...anything that deviates from those possibilities while technically possible doesn't
change MSFT position.


The 'less inviting' comment was VanguardLH's , I missed snipping that comment.

'Full package product' only applies to the earlier full retail versions of earlier o/s (e.g. Win7 full retail with 32 and 64 bit
DVD)...those full package products are no longer available and are now replaced with the Personal Use Licenser for System Builder
versions which include a 32 ***or** 64 bit DVD but not both.

That is an annoyance if you have a 32-bit system, and eventually decide
to upgrade the system to 64-bit. Twice the price for (effectively) the
same OS.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England