Why Microsoft redesigned Windows

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57...igned-windows/

I admit the Metro side is better with touch screens. But I still don't
like touch screens for the Windows classic desktop. That is still pretty
awkward with a touch screen. Although scrolling with a touch screen
under the classic desktop is pretty cool. Otherwise not much to get
excited about.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8

BillW50 wrote:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57...igned-windows/

I admit the Metro side is better with touch screens. But I still don't
like touch screens for the Windows classic desktop. That is still pretty
awkward with a touch screen. Although scrolling with a touch screen
under the classic desktop is pretty cool. Otherwise not much to get
excited about.


As long as there is ClassicShell, who cares what they were thinking.

Before they do their next OS, I hope they do "time and motion
studies", to understand how a WinXP user gets the job done faster
than a Windows 8 user does.

But really, the next version of OS, works on the walled garden
and revenue maximization, and won't have anything to do with the
actual user. The user interface will remain the same (perhaps
just losing the classic desktop, because, after all, it's
useless, right ?). Or so they'll claim.

Paul

On 12/16/2012 6:12 PM, Paul wrote:
BillW50 wrote:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57...igned-windows/

I admit the Metro side is better with touch screens. But I still don't
like touch screens for the Windows classic desktop. That is still
pretty awkward with a touch screen. Although scrolling with a touch
screen under the classic desktop is pretty cool. Otherwise not much to
get excited about.


As long as there is ClassicShell, who cares what they were thinking.

Before they do their next OS, I hope they do "time and motion
studies", to understand how a WinXP user gets the job done faster
than a Windows 8 user does.

But really, the next version of OS, works on the walled garden
and revenue maximization, and won't have anything to do with the
actual user. The user interface will remain the same (perhaps
just losing the classic desktop, because, after all, it's
useless, right ?). Or so they'll claim.

Paul

I've been very lucky in the past about knowing what will make it and
what will fail. But I have no gut feeling about Windows 8. I just don't
know? Although I do know this is a huge step for Microsoft.

I also had no interest in the past about using a touch screen with
Windows. Although Windows 8 changed all of that for me. Now a touch
screen is practical for at least the new Metro UI.

And I think most people are learning what I have learned so far. First
they hate it, later they say it isn't all that bad, and then later say I
can get used to this. So it will probably start slow and then later do
ok. ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8

"Paul" wrote in message ...

As long as there is ClassicShell, who cares what they were thinking.

Before they do their next OS, I hope they do "time and motion
studies", to understand how a WinXP user gets the job done faster
than a Windows 8 user does.

But really, the next version of OS, works on the walled garden
and revenue maximization, and won't have anything to do with the
actual user. The user interface will remain the same (perhaps
just losing the classic desktop, because, after all, it's
useless, right ?). Or so they'll claim.


MSFT has pretty much pushed XP off the list of importance. Any comparisons (since the next o/s is very unlikely to be released
before XP's final extended support date [April 2014]) or studies will be centered on Win7 and to a lesser extent if at all on
Vista. Also unlikely that the Desktop option will be deprecated.

--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps

On 17/12/2012 11:12 AM, Paul wrote:
BillW50 wrote:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57...igned-windows/

I admit the Metro side is better with touch screens. But I still don't
like touch screens for the Windows classic desktop. That is still
pretty awkward with a touch screen. Although scrolling with a touch
screen under the classic desktop is pretty cool. Otherwise not much to
get excited about.


As long as there is ClassicShell, who cares what they were thinking.

Before they do their next OS, I hope they do "time and motion
studies", to understand how a WinXP user gets the job done faster
than a Windows 8 user does.

But really, the next version of OS, works on the walled garden
and revenue maximization, and won't have anything to do with the
actual user. The user interface will remain the same (perhaps
just losing the classic desktop, because, after all, it's
useless, right ?). Or so they'll claim.

Paul


MS have now gone the way of Apple where they release a new OS and make a
nominal charge, previously each release was very expensive exercise.

Be interesting to see what the next update (W9) will cost.

In news:alt.comp.os.windows-8, BillW50 posted on Sun, 16
Dec 2012 19:50:40 -0600 the following:

And I think most people are learning what I have learned so far. First
they hate it, later they say it isn't all that bad, and then later say I
can get used to this. So it will probably start slow and then later do
ok. ;-)

People who have never had a computer probably won't have anything to
complain about once they just learn how to use a computer. They might use
a friend's older computer running Pre-Win8 and think, "Oh my! How do you
ever get anything done with this?"

Damaeus

In news:alt.comp.os.windows-8, Rob posted
on Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:48:32 +1100 the following:

MS have now gone the way of Apple where they release a new OS and make
a nominal charge, previously each release was very expensive exercise.

Be interesting to see what the next update (W9) will cost.

Someone somewhere (I think in this newsgroup) said that Microsoft was
trying to acclimate people to a subscription model for Windows. Perhaps
it'll be $20 a year to use Windows. That might not be too bad as long as
the updates keep coming, but if the subscription is $20 a year, maybe more
people will upgrade to each new version so Microsoft won't have to release
updates for so many older versions of Windows. But then, that also opens
the door to let people stay with the version they like if they're going to
have to keep paying $20 a year for it anyway. So maybe it's because
Microsoft wants to keep making money (or at least not losing money) on the
older versions of Windows people want to keep using.

I wonder how few people would have to be paying subscribers to Windows 9
when Windows 15 comes out. How few subscribers before Microsoft just
decides to stop supporting it, anyway. Maybe that's when the yearly
subscription would be terminated, and at that point, you use it at your
own risk, or you go back into the subscription loop with a newer version.

Damaeus

On 12/30/2012 5:17 AM, Damaeus wrote:
In news:alt.comp.os.windows-8, Rob posted
on Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:48:32 +1100 the following:

MS have now gone the way of Apple where they release a new OS and make
a nominal charge, previously each release was very expensive exercise.

Be interesting to see what the next update (W9) will cost.

Someone somewhere (I think in this newsgroup) said that Microsoft was
trying to acclimate people to a subscription model for Windows. Perhaps
it'll be $20 a year to use Windows. That might not be too bad as long as
the updates keep coming, but if the subscription is $20 a year, maybe more
people will upgrade to each new version so Microsoft won't have to release
updates for so many older versions of Windows. But then, that also opens
the door to let people stay with the version they like if they're going to
have to keep paying $20 a year for it anyway. So maybe it's because
Microsoft wants to keep making money (or at least not losing money) on the
older versions of Windows people want to keep using.

I wonder how few people would have to be paying subscribers to Windows 9
when Windows 15 comes out. How few subscribers before Microsoft just
decides to stop supporting it, anyway. Maybe that's when the yearly
subscription would be terminated, and at that point, you use it at your
own risk, or you go back into the subscription loop with a newer version.

Damaeus


Microsoft has been playing with the idea of subscriptions for some time.
The details differ, but the idea persists.
At least some of the supporting code has been present in past windows
versions. I really expected to see subscriptions sooner in such things
as some office versions.

Subscriptions have been available to developers, partners, mvp's, etc.,
via such things as universal subscription programs, tech-net, and likely
others for more than a decade.

Given that I have multiple computers, used for diverse purposes,
a reasonably priced subscription is attractive. A Tech-net access
subscription and/or the partner program subscription allow access and
use of the majority of Microsoft's products. The "universal
subscription" is expensive, and since I no longer personally develop
software (retired), I can no longer justify the expense.

The cost of an operating system and a "fully featured" office version
for one desktop alone is about the same or more as the annual
subscription fee I pay for multiple computers and access/use of multiple
ops systems, and applications beyond those in most versions of office.
One license for a server ops system is more than the entire annual
subscription fee.

Well...kind of...

Technet subscriptions are restricted on devices only for evaluation of software. Not for any of the following - software
development, in and application development environment, live operating environment, or in staging environment.

MSDN subcriptions can be used to design, develop, test or demonstrate the users programs. Use in any other way including personal
use in a production and/or consumer envirionment e.g. email, games, document editing is prohibited - doing so requires that the
underlying operating system and MSFT software be licensed by purchase of a regular copy of Windows or other MSFT software)


--
....winston
msft mvp


"charlie" wrote in message ...

On 12/30/2012 5:17 AM, Damaeus wrote:
In news:alt.comp.os.windows-8, Rob posted
on Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:48:32 +1100 the following:

MS have now gone the way of Apple where they release a new OS and make
a nominal charge, previously each release was very expensive exercise.

Be interesting to see what the next update (W9) will cost.

Someone somewhere (I think in this newsgroup) said that Microsoft was
trying to acclimate people to a subscription model for Windows. Perhaps
it'll be $20 a year to use Windows. That might not be too bad as long as
the updates keep coming, but if the subscription is $20 a year, maybe more
people will upgrade to each new version so Microsoft won't have to release
updates for so many older versions of Windows. But then, that also opens
the door to let people stay with the version they like if they're going to
have to keep paying $20 a year for it anyway. So maybe it's because
Microsoft wants to keep making money (or at least not losing money) on the
older versions of Windows people want to keep using.

I wonder how few people would have to be paying subscribers to Windows 9
when Windows 15 comes out. How few subscribers before Microsoft just
decides to stop supporting it, anyway. Maybe that's when the yearly
subscription would be terminated, and at that point, you use it at your
own risk, or you go back into the subscription loop with a newer version.

Damaeus


Microsoft has been playing with the idea of subscriptions for some time.
The details differ, but the idea persists.
At least some of the supporting code has been present in past windows
versions. I really expected to see subscriptions sooner in such things
as some office versions.

Subscriptions have been available to developers, partners, mvp's, etc.,
via such things as universal subscription programs, tech-net, and likely
others for more than a decade.

Given that I have multiple computers, used for diverse purposes,
a reasonably priced subscription is attractive. A Tech-net access
subscription and/or the partner program subscription allow access and
use of the majority of Microsoft's products. The "universal
subscription" is expensive, and since I no longer personally develop
software (retired), I can no longer justify the expense.

The cost of an operating system and a "fully featured" office version
for one desktop alone is about the same or more as the annual
subscription fee I pay for multiple computers and access/use of multiple
ops systems, and applications beyond those in most versions of office.
One license for a server ops system is more than the entire annual
subscription fee.

On 12/30/2012 7:01 PM, ..winston wrote:
Well...kind of...

Technet subscriptions are restricted on devices only for evaluation of
software. Not for any of the following - software development, in and
application development environment, live operating environment, or in
staging environment.

MSDN subcriptions can be used to design, develop, test or demonstrate
the users programs. Use in any other way including personal use in a
production and/or consumer envirionment e.g. email, games, document
editing is prohibited - doing so requires that the underlying operating
system and MSFT software be licensed by purchase of a regular copy of
Windows or other MSFT software)


That's why there are subscriptions other than tech net and so forth.
Design, develop, and test covers a lot of ground.

In the past, there were some very restrictive conditions involved with
software development, mainly for game machines. During one period, it
was so bad that some developers were sending the source code overseas to
have the finishing touches made, and then "compiled" under the host
countries rules. The practice developed into a major overseas game
development business.

Yes, there are other subscriptions such as Volume Licensing.

As far as MSDN and TechNet
http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/dd362338.aspx


--
....winston
msft mvp


"charlie" wrote in message ...

On 12/30/2012 7:01 PM, ..winston wrote:
Well...kind of...

Technet subscriptions are restricted on devices only for evaluation of
software. Not for any of the following - software development, in and
application development environment, live operating environment, or in
staging environment.

MSDN subcriptions can be used to design, develop, test or demonstrate
the users programs. Use in any other way including personal use in a
production and/or consumer envirionment e.g. email, games, document
editing is prohibited - doing so requires that the underlying operating
system and MSFT software be licensed by purchase of a regular copy of
Windows or other MSFT software)


That's why there are subscriptions other than tech net and so forth.
Design, develop, and test covers a lot of ground.

In the past, there were some very restrictive conditions involved with
software development, mainly for game machines. During one period, it
was so bad that some developers were sending the source code overseas to
have the finishing touches made, and then "compiled" under the host
countries rules. The practice developed into a major overseas game
development business.

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 13:41:33 -0500, charlie wrote:

On 12/30/2012 5:17 AM, Damaeus wrote:
In news:alt.comp.os.windows-8, Rob posted
on Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:48:32 +1100 the following:

MS have now gone the way of Apple where they release a new OS and make
a nominal charge, previously each release was very expensive exercise.

Be interesting to see what the next update (W9) will cost.

Someone somewhere (I think in this newsgroup) said that Microsoft was
trying to acclimate people to a subscription model for Windows. Perhaps
it'll be $20 a year to use Windows. That might not be too bad as long as
the updates keep coming, but if the subscription is $20 a year, maybe more
people will upgrade to each new version so Microsoft won't have to release
updates for so many older versions of Windows. But then, that also opens
the door to let people stay with the version they like if they're going to
have to keep paying $20 a year for it anyway. So maybe it's because
Microsoft wants to keep making money (or at least not losing money) on the
older versions of Windows people want to keep using.

I wonder how few people would have to be paying subscribers to Windows 9
when Windows 15 comes out. How few subscribers before Microsoft just
decides to stop supporting it, anyway. Maybe that's when the yearly
subscription would be terminated, and at that point, you use it at your
own risk, or you go back into the subscription loop with a newer version.

Damaeus


Microsoft has been playing with the idea of subscriptions for some time.
The details differ, but the idea persists.
At least some of the supporting code has been present in past windows
versions. I really expected to see subscriptions sooner in such things
as some office versions.

Subscriptions have been available to developers, partners, mvp's, etc.,
via such things as universal subscription programs, tech-net, and likely
others for more than a decade.

Given that I have multiple computers, used for diverse purposes,
a reasonably priced subscription is attractive. A Tech-net access
subscription and/or the partner program subscription allow access and
use of the majority of Microsoft's products. The "universal
subscription" is expensive, and since I no longer personally develop
software (retired), I can no longer justify the expense.

The cost of an operating system and a "fully featured" office version
for one desktop alone is about the same or more as the annual
subscription fee I pay for multiple computers and access/use of multiple
ops systems, and applications beyond those in most versions of office.
One license for a server ops system is more than the entire annual
subscription fee.

People have been predicting and pushing for "cloud" computing for
years using a subscription model. Especially for big companies. Ten
years ago the hot talk at my agency was how the "typical user" would
soon be switching from PCs to just dumb terminals connected to this
"cloud". I think some company named Cynex (or something like that)
kept pushing our IT people. It never happened. Too many people
really did have some kind of special need that required a PC on their
desk. About the only people I could ever see being happen with the
"cloud" model were paperwork drones who did the same repetitive tasks
every day.

In ,
Ashton Crusher typed:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 13:41:33 -0500, charlie wrote:

On 12/30/2012 5:17 AM, Damaeus wrote:
In news:alt.comp.os.windows-8, Rob
posted on Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:48:32 +1100 the following:

MS have now gone the way of Apple where they release a new OS and
make a nominal charge, previously each release was very expensive
exercise.

Be interesting to see what the next update (W9) will cost.

Someone somewhere (I think in this newsgroup) said that Microsoft
was trying to acclimate people to a subscription model for Windows.
Perhaps it'll be $20 a year to use Windows. That might not be too
bad as long as the updates keep coming, but if the subscription is
$20 a year, maybe more people will upgrade to each new version so
Microsoft won't have to release updates for so many older versions
of Windows. But then, that also opens the door to let people stay
with the version they like if they're going to have to keep paying
$20 a year for it anyway. So maybe it's because Microsoft wants to
keep making money (or at least not losing money) on the older
versions of Windows people want to keep using.

I wonder how few people would have to be paying subscribers to
Windows 9 when Windows 15 comes out. How few subscribers before
Microsoft just decides to stop supporting it, anyway. Maybe that's
when the yearly subscription would be terminated, and at that
point, you use it at your own risk, or you go back into the
subscription loop with a newer version.

Damaeus


Microsoft has been playing with the idea of subscriptions for some
time. The details differ, but the idea persists.
At least some of the supporting code has been present in past windows
versions. I really expected to see subscriptions sooner in such
things as some office versions.

Subscriptions have been available to developers, partners, mvp's,
etc., via such things as universal subscription programs, tech-net,
and likely others for more than a decade.

Given that I have multiple computers, used for diverse purposes,
a reasonably priced subscription is attractive. A Tech-net access
subscription and/or the partner program subscription allow access and
use of the majority of Microsoft's products. The "universal
subscription" is expensive, and since I no longer personally develop
software (retired), I can no longer justify the expense.

The cost of an operating system and a "fully featured" office version
for one desktop alone is about the same or more as the annual
subscription fee I pay for multiple computers and access/use of
multiple ops systems, and applications beyond those in most versions
of office. One license for a server ops system is more than the
entire annual subscription fee.

People have been predicting and pushing for "cloud" computing for
years using a subscription model. Especially for big companies. Ten
years ago the hot talk at my agency was how the "typical user" would
soon be switching from PCs to just dumb terminals connected to this
"cloud". I think some company named Cynex (or something like that)
kept pushing our IT people. It never happened. Too many people
really did have some kind of special need that required a PC on their
desk. About the only people I could ever see being happen with the
"cloud" model were paperwork drones who did the same repetitive tasks
every day.

Yes, I have heard the very same thing for years too. But this Windows 8
changes everything. As new Metro App you install on one Windows 8
machine also gets installed on your other Windows 8 machines. You can
turn off this feature for now, but for how long?

Plus the stories in the rumor mill are saying that Microsoft is going to
a subscription service in mid-2013 for updates. Unless there is a big
push back from consumers, I think they might just pull it off. Thank
goodness I still have plenty of machines that still runs XP. I just
bought two more actually. ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

"BillW50" wrote in message ...


Plus the stories in the rumor mill are saying that Microsoft is going to
a subscription service in mid-2013 for updates. Unless there is a big
push back from consumers, I think they might just pull it off. Thank
goodness I still have plenty of machines that still runs XP. I just
bought two more actually. ;-)


Mid 2013 ? That rumor, if it does exist, afaics lacks foundation.
Besides subscription based service for updates won't really impact XP.
In a little more than a year updates for XP will cease.

--
....winston
msft mvp

In ,
...winston typed:
"BillW50" wrote in message ...

Plus the stories in the rumor mill are saying that Microsoft is going
to a subscription service in mid-2013 for updates. Unless there is a
big push back from consumers, I think they might just pull it off.
Thank goodness I still have plenty of machines that still runs XP. I
just bought two more actually. ;-)

Mid 2013 ? That rumor, if it does exist, afaics lacks foundation.

Really, lacks foundation? Mary Jo Foley does have her reliable sources
within Microsoft. Why you think she doesn't?

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-next-ju...ue-7000002535/

Besides subscription based service for updates won't really impact XP.
In a little more than a year updates for XP will cease.

Naw... we not talking about a subscription updates for XP. As XP doesn't
need them anyway. ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2