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#1
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Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8
I have a feeling that problems can ensue if the Windows 8 (and
maybe some prior versions) are installed with secondary hard drives connected. Windows 8 installs an additional hidden system partition. That partition might go to an available secondary drive. If so, and then if you simply choose to back up what you see as the Windows partition, you aren't properly backing up the hidden system partition at the same time. Of course there is the Macrium Reflect option on the left side of its program window, for backing up necessary Windows parts. But some people (like me) might miss that. I suppose it works just as well. But having the windows beast on a single hard drive is probably a good idea anyway. So... Probably a good idea to disconnect secondary hard drives when installing Windows 8. |
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#2
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Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8
John Doe wrote:
So... Probably a good idea to disconnect secondary hard drives when installing Windows 8. That's standard operating procedure here. I've had too many other OSes damaged, by leaving disks connected. I even had an installer delete the partition table. As well as overwrite the wrong MBR. Even disabling disks in the BIOS doesn't work. A Linux installer will turn all the disks on, anyway. So you really have to unplug them, to be safe. When I installed Windows 8, there was exactly one hard drive wired to the system. And I ended up with a single partition install. (The disk already had two data partitions, and it didn't hurt those or modify them.) I don't know if a single partition install is normal or not, because I keep hearing of some second partition. Don't know if that partition is like the one on Windows 7 or not (contains boot files, would be marked "System" in disk management). I haven't heard the word "Bitlocker" mentioned at all with Windows 8, so it's hard to say why you'd want a separate boot file partition. On Windows 7, a separate boot partition is used, in case you're running Ultimate and have enabled full disk encryption for C: via Bitlocker. The boot files remain unencrypted, on their own partition. Paul |
#3
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Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8
Hi, John.
Probably a good idea to disconnect secondary hard drives when installing Windows 8. It depends on the configuration of your particular computer - and on the way you organize operating system(s) on it. I've been multi-booting various Windows installations on several HDDs since 1998. During my 8 years as a Microsoft MVP I collected several Windows DVDs and multiple licenses for them, so I still have one copy of WinXP and two of Win7 installed. When Win8 became available, I used Win7 x64 (and my VISA card) to download it into my E:\Data\Download volume, intending to burn it to a DVD to install it. But when I right-clicked on the Windows.iso file in E:, I was pleasantly surprised to see Mount as the first option. I clicked on that and then on setup.exe - and Win8 was installed directly from my HDD E: into the partition that I had been using for the Win8 RP. ;) No, I didn't disconnect any HDDs (or optical or USB drives). Just pointed setup.exe to that chosen partition on my second HDD (Disk 1, Partition 5), which Win8 now sees as Drive C:. (It sees Drive D: (Disk 0, Partition 1) as my System Partition.) Windows 8 installs an additional hidden system partition. Not always. As I said in the beginning, it depends on your specific system configuration. If Setup.exe for Win8 (or Win7) finds an existing System Partition, it will update that partition, rather than create a new hidden partition. If Win8 is installed onto a new, empty HDD, I believe it does create the hidden partition, but I don't know because I've never had that situation. (And I've never used Macrium Reflect and don't know anything about it except what I've read in newsgroups like this.) Kind of a long-winded way to say, no, you don't need to disconnect secondary disks to install Win8. But you do need to watch carefully and be sure you are telling Setup.exe to install it into the partition that you really want it in. Run Disk Management and study its Graphical Display to get a clear picture and understanding of where things really are in YOUR computer. (Be sure to add NAMES (labels) to each partition so that you don't get confused by changing "drive" letters.) Whether hidden or not, the computer always starts in the System Partition and then branches to the Boot Volume for the current Windows; those labels are in the Status column of Disk Management and they are counter-intuitive to most users' understanding of those terms. You will probably get conflicting advice from others because each of us has different experienced and different computer setups. We're not all wrong; just different. RC -- -- R. C. White, CPA San Marcos, TX Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010) Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3505.0912) in Win8 Pro "John Doe" wrote in message ... I have a feeling that problems can ensue if the Windows 8 (and maybe some prior versions) are installed with secondary hard drives connected. Windows 8 installs an additional hidden system partition. That partition might go to an available secondary drive. If so, and then if you simply choose to back up what you see as the Windows partition, you aren't properly backing up the hidden system partition at the same time. Of course there is the Macrium Reflect option on the left side of its program window, for backing up necessary Windows parts. But some people (like me) might miss that. I suppose it works just as well. But having the windows beast on a single hard drive is probably a good idea anyway. So... Probably a good idea to disconnect secondary hard drives when installing Windows 8. |
#4
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Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8
"R. C. White" rc grandecom.net wrote:
Probably a good idea to disconnect secondary hard drives when installing Windows 8. It depends on the configuration of your particular computer - and on the way you organize operating system(s) on it. Not unless you have clear guidance on the subject. Without that, you play it safe. And it also has to do with see the subject line of this thread. I've been multi-booting various Windows installations on several HDDs since 1998. I've been making backup copies of the Windows partition for longer than that, using many different utilities. During my 8 years as a Microsoft MVP After I saw Microsoft give its MVP certificate to a technically uninclined salesman, I lost all respect for MVPs. Windows 8 installs an additional hidden system partition. If Setup.exe for Win8 (or Win7) finds an existing System Partition, it will update that partition, rather than create a new hidden partition. Makes no difference. Either way, it generates and/or uses a hidden system partition. Kind of a long-winded way to say, no, you don't need to disconnect secondary disks to install Win8. Actually, I'm pretty sure that Paul's confirmation is better than that advice. And it's been my experience that Windows 8 (and probably prior versions) does some weird things to secondary hard drives. I didn't know until today that it sticks a hidden system partition on the secondary drive. It's not the fact that it's hidden, it's the potential problems those of us who do backups might have when Windows stuff goes on a secondary hard drive. Again, see the subject line of this thread. But you do need to watch carefully and be sure you are telling Setup.exe to install it into the partition that you really want it in. That has nothing to do with my situation. Of course not. You have to be stupid not to know where Windows is installing to. If you don't know that much, you shouldn't be doing an installation. But of course, again, I wasn't talking about the installation, I was talking about the hidden system partition generated by the installation. Run Disk Management and study its Graphical Display to get a clear picture and understanding of where things really are in YOUR computer. (Be sure to add NAMES (labels) to each partition so that you don't get confused by changing "drive" letters.) Oh, Mr MVP, now please tell me how to change the label of a hard drive! Please read the subject line... -- Whether hidden or not, the computer always starts in the System Partition and then branches to the Boot Volume for the current Windows; those labels are in the Status column of Disk Management and they are counter-intuitive to most users' understanding of those terms. You will probably get conflicting advice from others because each of us has different experienced and different computer setups. We're not all wrong; just different. RC -- -- R. C. White, CPA San Marcos, TX rc grandecom.net Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010) Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3505.0912) in Win8 Pro "John Doe" wrote in message news:kd50nb$osm$1 dont-email.me... I have a feeling that problems can ensue if the Windows 8 (and maybe some prior versions) are installed with secondary hard drives connected. Windows 8 installs an additional hidden system partition. That partition might go to an available secondary drive. If so, and then if you simply choose to back up what you see as the Windows partition, you aren't properly backing up the hidden system partition at the same time. Of course there is the Macrium Reflect option on the left side of its program window, for backing up necessary Windows parts. But some people (like me) might miss that. I suppose it works just as well. But having the windows beast on a single hard drive is probably a good idea anyway. So... Probably a good idea to disconnect secondary hard drives when installing Windows 8. Path: eternal-september.org!mx04.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!border3.nntp.dca.giga news.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.gig anews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.gigane ws.com!nntp.posted.grandecom!news.posted.grandecom .POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:20:09 -0600 From: "R. C. White" rc grandecom.net Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-8 References: kd50nb$osm$1 dont-email.me In-Reply-To: kd50nb$osm$1 dont-email.me Subject: Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:19:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3505.912 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3505.912 Message-ID: mr-dnXX_n-P0gWvNnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d posted.grandecom Lines: 76 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 72.48.188.12 X-Trace: sv3-Ygazz9bhRKNpWIpsQFoQZFIPvGttavy4En4rWCpymzAqiWJnhu vtD0D6cukD4TxQRHS2xXGV3zVrQq8!30hHGgE1M4s/XmhpZJA2CpxBObZvNM84sb/A2RP2Cuxoas3J95zm+jbqwuYgE4BKQZKsmNT1kgI4!/1ZRKLGBQZehw6Q= X-Complaints-To: abuse grandecom.com X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse grandecom.com X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 5118 Xref: mx04.eternal-september.org alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:25795 alt.comp.os.windows-8:2846 |
#5
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Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8
On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 01:45:16 +0000 (UTC), "John Doe"
wrote in article kd50nb$osm$1@dont- email.me... So... Probably a good idea to disconnect secondary hard drives when installing Windows 8. Given that starting with Windows Vista (IIRC), drive number enumeration is not fixed and does not necessarily correspond to the BIOS order, this is good advice. In my experience at least, in XP and earlier you could rest assured that the 1st drive in the BIOS was also the 1st drive in the listing in Windows, 2nd was 2nd, etc. Today, in one boot it could be that way, but in the next boot your drives could be enumerated in reverse order. Microsoft recommends verifying "the disk drive on which you will set up Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows Server 2008 R2, or Windows 7 by checking the disk information. For example, on the screen that lets you select the drive for the setup destination, verify the volume name and the available space." See their support article "Disk drive numbers may not correspond as expected to the SATA channel numbers when you install Windows on a computer that has multiple SATA or RAID disks" at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/937251 for more information. -- Zaphod Arthur: All my life I've had this strange feeling that there's something big and sinister going on in the world. Slartibartfast: No, that's perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the universe gets that. |
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Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8
On Jan 15, 10:19 pm, "R. C. White" wrote:
Not always. As I said in the beginning, it depends on your specific system configuration. If Setup.exe for Win8 (or Win7) finds an existing System Partition, it will update that partition, rather than create a new hidden partition. If Win8 is installed onto a new, empty HDD, I believe it does create the hidden partition, but I don't know because I've never had that situation. (And I've never used Macrium Reflect and don't know anything about it except what I've read in newsgroups like this.) An intrigue of interest: A case of the residual partition in W8 NeverNever Land. :-) :-) :-) Evidently you haven't played with it, having no need or impediment within reasonable rights to do so, being with an expected efficacy of means given Microsoft to provide a loyal customer, such as yourself, less pain with more gain. Why anyone, particularly, technically coherent, or otherwise, ought on Microsoft's behest to disassemble or otherwise incapacitate a functional Windows computer prior to continued purchase support of their products simply seems inconceivable;- I'm certain, that is to say, Ockham's Razor isn't almost so sharp to send the public reeling and rocking over into Windows tablatures, en masse, with W8 merely being a ruse thereby to do so. :-) :-) :-) You will probably get conflicting advice from others because each of us has different experienced and different computer setups. We're not all wrong; just different. Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche hold that, fundamentally, affirmation for humankind exerts its toll in negation. For Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli, in order to known and hold closest thine enemies, Nietzsche then might reasonably expect to extol as most consequent to his standing, those for whom antagonistic capacity inordinately exceeds dismissible expectations posed by all but the most astute, worthy, and hence affable critic. What I should ask first, then, is without that partition you identify as conditional or a non-essential entity of reason, prima facie, a most-basic preparation of the hard drive apparently might seem to evince, what consequence occurs in result whereupon and were it simply removed;- furthermore, to evaluate what medium does it constitute to and within means given for a binary sector rewrite in reconstituting its form. |
#7
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Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8
Hi, Zaphod.
THANK YOU for the pointer to that KB (Article ID: 937251)! As a non-techie who has learned about PC's by 35 years of experience and reading, I've often wondered about the enumeration process. And I've certainly noticed the behavior mentioned in that KB: That Disk 0 may not be Disk 0 on the next boot of the computer! :( As it says in the KB: Note Under certain circumstances, it may be difficult to notice that the disk numbering does not match the corresponding SATA or RAID channel numbers. For example, if both SATA or RAID hard-disk sizes are identical, it may be difficult to tell the disks apart by using these methods. That is why I long ago learned to NAME my partitions, and to advise others to do so. The first partition on each of my disks is named to correspond to that disk: Disk 0: Partition 1: SATA 200 Disk 1: Partition 1: SATA 300 Disk 2: Partition 1: SATA 1000 Mirror Disk 3: Partition 1: SATA 1000 Mirror Disks 2 and 3 are a software mirror of each other; each has 5 lettered partitions. Even if I were to switch cables, or if the computer were to enumerate the disks differently, a quick glance at Disk Management would tell me which disk is Disk 0. My motherboard has six SATA ports, and I've spent more time than I should have needed in swapping SATA cables to try to ensure that SATA 200 is always Disk 0. Still, about once a week, when I boot up in the morning, an error message pops up and I have to reboot - maybe 2 or 3 times - to get the computer to enumerate the disks in the proper order. (If you have a tip on how to fix this, I'd like to hear it.) This is part of the reason that my earlier post included the caution "to watch carefully and be sure you are telling Setup.exe to install it into the partition that you really want it in." Hmmm... I just now noticed that this thread is crossposted to the pc-homebuilt NG. My experience has been mostly with home-built PCs. While I started with the TRS-80 in 1977 and played with other systems along the way, I've used nothing but Windows since about Win95, so my comments really apply just to Win8. RC -- -- R. C. White, CPA San Marcos, TX Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010) Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3505.0912) in Win8 Pro "Zaphod Beeblebrox" wrote in message ... On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 01:45:16 +0000 (UTC), "John Doe" wrote in article kd50nb$osm$1@dont- email.me... So... Probably a good idea to disconnect secondary hard drives when installing Windows 8. Given that starting with Windows Vista (IIRC), drive number enumeration is not fixed and does not necessarily correspond to the BIOS order, this is good advice. In my experience at least, in XP and earlier you could rest assured that the 1st drive in the BIOS was also the 1st drive in the listing in Windows, 2nd was 2nd, etc. Today, in one boot it could be that way, but in the next boot your drives could be enumerated in reverse order. Microsoft recommends verifying "the disk drive on which you will set up Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows Server 2008 R2, or Windows 7 by checking the disk information. For example, on the screen that lets you select the drive for the setup destination, verify the volume name and the available space." See their support article "Disk drive numbers may not correspond as expected to the SATA channel numbers when you install Windows on a computer that has multiple SATA or RAID disks" at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/937251 for more information. -- Zaphod |
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Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8
Please learn how to properly format a USENET reply.
Hint: We start with introductions, not a salutation. |
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