A Windows XP help forum. PCbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PCbanter forum » Microsoft Windows 8 » Windows 8 Help Forum
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8



 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 16th 13, 02:45 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-8
John Doe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 716
Default Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8

I have a feeling that problems can ensue if the Windows 8 (and
maybe some prior versions) are installed with secondary hard
drives connected. Windows 8 installs an additional hidden system
partition. That partition might go to an available secondary
drive. If so, and then if you simply choose to back up what you
see as the Windows partition, you aren't properly backing up the
hidden system partition at the same time.

Of course there is the Macrium Reflect option on the left side of its
program window, for backing up necessary Windows parts. But some
people (like me) might miss that. I suppose it works just as well.
But having the windows beast on a single hard drive is probably a
good idea anyway.

So... Probably a good idea to disconnect secondary hard drives when
installing Windows 8.
Ads
  #2  
Old January 16th 13, 03:28 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8

John Doe wrote:


So... Probably a good idea to disconnect secondary hard drives when
installing Windows 8.


That's standard operating procedure here. I've had too many
other OSes damaged, by leaving disks connected. I even had
an installer delete the partition table. As well as overwrite
the wrong MBR.

Even disabling disks in the BIOS doesn't work. A Linux installer
will turn all the disks on, anyway. So you really have to unplug
them, to be safe.

When I installed Windows 8, there was exactly one hard drive
wired to the system. And I ended up with a single partition
install. (The disk already had two data partitions, and it
didn't hurt those or modify them.) I don't know if a single
partition install is normal or not, because I keep hearing
of some second partition. Don't know if that partition is
like the one on Windows 7 or not (contains boot files,
would be marked "System" in disk management). I
haven't heard the word "Bitlocker" mentioned at all with
Windows 8, so it's hard to say why you'd want a separate
boot file partition. On Windows 7, a separate boot partition
is used, in case you're running Ultimate and have enabled
full disk encryption for C: via Bitlocker. The boot files
remain unencrypted, on their own partition.

Paul
  #3  
Old January 16th 13, 04:19 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-8
R. C. White
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,058
Default Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8

Hi, John.

Probably a good idea to disconnect secondary hard drives when installing
Windows 8.


It depends on the configuration of your particular computer - and on the way
you organize operating system(s) on it.

I've been multi-booting various Windows installations on several HDDs since
1998. During my 8 years as a Microsoft MVP I collected several Windows DVDs
and multiple licenses for them, so I still have one copy of WinXP and two of
Win7 installed. When Win8 became available, I used Win7 x64 (and my VISA
card) to download it into my E:\Data\Download volume, intending to burn it
to a DVD to install it. But when I right-clicked on the Windows.iso file in
E:, I was pleasantly surprised to see Mount as the first option. I clicked
on that and then on setup.exe - and Win8 was installed directly from my HDD
E: into the partition that I had been using for the Win8 RP. ;)

No, I didn't disconnect any HDDs (or optical or USB drives). Just pointed
setup.exe to that chosen partition on my second HDD (Disk 1, Partition 5),
which Win8 now sees as Drive C:. (It sees Drive D: (Disk 0, Partition 1) as
my System Partition.)

Windows 8 installs an additional hidden system partition.


Not always. As I said in the beginning, it depends on your specific system
configuration. If Setup.exe for Win8 (or Win7) finds an existing System
Partition, it will update that partition, rather than create a new hidden
partition. If Win8 is installed onto a new, empty HDD, I believe it does
create the hidden partition, but I don't know because I've never had that
situation. (And I've never used Macrium Reflect and don't know anything
about it except what I've read in newsgroups like this.)

Kind of a long-winded way to say, no, you don't need to disconnect secondary
disks to install Win8. But you do need to watch carefully and be sure you
are telling Setup.exe to install it into the partition that you really want
it in. Run Disk Management and study its Graphical Display to get a clear
picture and understanding of where things really are in YOUR computer. (Be
sure to add NAMES (labels) to each partition so that you don't get confused
by changing "drive" letters.) Whether hidden or not, the computer always
starts in the System Partition and then branches to the Boot Volume for the
current Windows; those labels are in the Status column of Disk Management
and they are counter-intuitive to most users' understanding of those terms.

You will probably get conflicting advice from others because each of us has
different experienced and different computer setups. We're not all wrong;
just different.

RC
-- --
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3505.0912) in Win8 Pro


"John Doe" wrote in message ...

I have a feeling that problems can ensue if the Windows 8 (and
maybe some prior versions) are installed with secondary hard
drives connected. Windows 8 installs an additional hidden system
partition. That partition might go to an available secondary
drive. If so, and then if you simply choose to back up what you
see as the Windows partition, you aren't properly backing up the
hidden system partition at the same time.

Of course there is the Macrium Reflect option on the left side of its
program window, for backing up necessary Windows parts. But some
people (like me) might miss that. I suppose it works just as well.
But having the windows beast on a single hard drive is probably a
good idea anyway.

So... Probably a good idea to disconnect secondary hard drives when
installing Windows 8.

  #4  
Old January 16th 13, 06:58 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-8
John Doe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 716
Default Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8

"R. C. White" rc grandecom.net wrote:

Probably a good idea to disconnect secondary hard drives when
installing Windows 8.


It depends on the configuration of your particular computer -
and on the way you organize operating system(s) on it.


Not unless you have clear guidance on the subject. Without that,
you play it safe. And it also has to do with see the subject line
of this thread.

I've been multi-booting various Windows installations on several
HDDs since 1998.


I've been making backup copies of the Windows partition for longer
than that, using many different utilities.

During my 8 years as a Microsoft MVP


After I saw Microsoft give its MVP certificate to a technically
uninclined salesman, I lost all respect for MVPs.

Windows 8 installs an additional hidden system partition.


If Setup.exe for Win8 (or Win7) finds an existing System
Partition, it will update that partition, rather than create a
new hidden partition.


Makes no difference. Either way, it generates and/or uses a hidden
system partition.

Kind of a long-winded way to say, no, you don't need to
disconnect secondary disks to install Win8.


Actually, I'm pretty sure that Paul's confirmation is better than
that advice. And it's been my experience that Windows 8 (and
probably prior versions) does some weird things to secondary hard
drives. I didn't know until today that it sticks a hidden system
partition on the secondary drive. It's not the fact that it's
hidden, it's the potential problems those of us who do backups
might have when Windows stuff goes on a secondary hard drive.
Again, see the subject line of this thread.

But you do need to watch carefully and be sure you are telling
Setup.exe to install it into the partition that you really want
it in.


That has nothing to do with my situation. Of course not. You have
to be stupid not to know where Windows is installing to. If you
don't know that much, you shouldn't be doing an installation. But
of course, again, I wasn't talking about the installation, I was
talking about the hidden system partition generated by the
installation.

Run Disk Management and study its Graphical Display to get a
clear picture and understanding of where things really are in
YOUR computer. (Be sure to add NAMES (labels) to each partition
so that you don't get confused by changing "drive" letters.)


Oh, Mr MVP, now please tell me how to change the label of a hard
drive!

Please read the subject line...

--









Whether hidden or not, the computer always starts in the System
Partition and then branches to the Boot Volume for the current
Windows; those labels are in the Status column of Disk
Management and they are counter-intuitive to most users'
understanding of those terms.

You will probably get conflicting advice from others because
each of us has different experienced and different computer
setups. We're not all wrong; just different.

RC
-- --
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
rc grandecom.net
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3505.0912) in Win8 Pro


"John Doe" wrote in message news:kd50nb$osm$1 dont-email.me...

I have a feeling that problems can ensue if the Windows 8 (and
maybe some prior versions) are installed with secondary hard
drives connected. Windows 8 installs an additional hidden system
partition. That partition might go to an available secondary
drive. If so, and then if you simply choose to back up what you
see as the Windows partition, you aren't properly backing up the
hidden system partition at the same time.

Of course there is the Macrium Reflect option on the left side of its
program window, for backing up necessary Windows parts. But some
people (like me) might miss that. I suppose it works just as well.
But having the windows beast on a single hard drive is probably a
good idea anyway.

So... Probably a good idea to disconnect secondary hard drives when
installing Windows 8.




Path: eternal-september.org!mx04.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!border3.nntp.dca.giga news.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.gig anews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.gigane ws.com!nntp.posted.grandecom!news.posted.grandecom .POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:20:09 -0600
From: "R. C. White" rc grandecom.net
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-8
References: kd50nb$osm$1 dont-email.me
In-Reply-To: kd50nb$osm$1 dont-email.me
Subject: Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:19:47 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3505.912
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3505.912
Message-ID: mr-dnXX_n-P0gWvNnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d posted.grandecom
Lines: 76
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: 72.48.188.12
X-Trace: sv3-Ygazz9bhRKNpWIpsQFoQZFIPvGttavy4En4rWCpymzAqiWJnhu vtD0D6cukD4TxQRHS2xXGV3zVrQq8!30hHGgE1M4s/XmhpZJA2CpxBObZvNM84sb/A2RP2Cuxoas3J95zm+jbqwuYgE4BKQZKsmNT1kgI4!/1ZRKLGBQZehw6Q=
X-Complaints-To: abuse grandecom.com
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse grandecom.com
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
X-Original-Bytes: 5118
Xref: mx04.eternal-september.org alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:25795 alt.comp.os.windows-8:2846

  #5  
Old January 16th 13, 08:24 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Zaphod Beeblebrox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 868
Default Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8

On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 01:45:16 +0000 (UTC), "John Doe"
wrote in article kd50nb$osm$1@dont-
email.me...

So... Probably a good idea to disconnect secondary hard drives when
installing Windows 8.



Given that starting with Windows Vista (IIRC), drive number enumeration
is not fixed and does not necessarily correspond to the BIOS order,
this is good advice.

In my experience at least, in XP and earlier you could rest assured
that the 1st drive in the BIOS was also the 1st drive in the listing in
Windows, 2nd was 2nd, etc. Today, in one boot it could be that way,
but in the next boot your drives could be enumerated in reverse order.

Microsoft recommends verifying "the disk drive on which you will set up
Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows Server 2008 R2, or Windows
7 by checking the disk information. For example, on the screen that
lets you select the drive for the setup destination, verify the volume
name and the available space."

See their support article "Disk drive numbers may not correspond as
expected to the SATA channel numbers when you install Windows on a
computer that has multiple SATA or RAID disks" at
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/937251 for more information.

--
Zaphod

Arthur: All my life I've had this strange feeling that there's
something big and sinister going on in the world.
Slartibartfast: No, that's perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the
universe gets that.
  #6  
Old January 16th 13, 10:41 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Flasherly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8

On Jan 15, 10:19 pm, "R. C. White" wrote:

Not always. As I said in the beginning, it depends on your specific system
configuration. If Setup.exe for Win8 (or Win7) finds an existing System
Partition, it will update that partition, rather than create a new hidden
partition. If Win8 is installed onto a new, empty HDD, I believe it does
create the hidden partition, but I don't know because I've never had that
situation. (And I've never used Macrium Reflect and don't know anything
about it except what I've read in newsgroups like this.)


An intrigue of interest: A case of the residual partition in W8
NeverNever Land. :-) :-) :-)

Evidently you haven't played with it, having no need or impediment
within reasonable rights to do so, being with an expected efficacy of
means given Microsoft to provide a loyal customer, such as yourself,
less pain with more gain.

Why anyone, particularly, technically coherent, or otherwise, ought on
Microsoft's behest to disassemble or otherwise incapacitate a
functional Windows computer prior to continued purchase support of
their products simply seems inconceivable;- I'm certain, that is to
say, Ockham's Razor isn't almost so sharp to send the public reeling
and rocking over into Windows tablatures, en masse, with W8 merely
being a ruse thereby to do so. :-) :-) :-)

You will probably get conflicting advice from others because each of us has
different experienced and different computer setups. We're not all wrong;
just different.


Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche hold that, fundamentally, affirmation for
humankind exerts its toll in negation. For Niccolò di Bernardo dei
Machiavelli, in order to known and hold closest thine enemies,
Nietzsche then might reasonably expect to extol as most consequent to
his standing, those for whom antagonistic capacity inordinately
exceeds dismissible expectations posed by all but the most astute,
worthy, and hence affable critic.

What I should ask first, then, is without that partition you identify
as conditional or a non-essential entity of reason, prima facie, a
most-basic preparation of the hard drive apparently might seem to
evince, what consequence occurs in result whereupon and were it simply
removed;- furthermore, to evaluate what medium does it constitute to
and within means given for a binary sector rewrite in reconstituting
its form.
  #7  
Old January 17th 13, 05:00 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-8
R. C. White
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,058
Default Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8

Hi, Zaphod.

THANK YOU for the pointer to that KB (Article ID: 937251)!

As a non-techie who has learned about PC's by 35 years of experience and
reading, I've often wondered about the enumeration process. And I've
certainly noticed the behavior mentioned in that KB: That Disk 0 may not be
Disk 0 on the next boot of the computer! :( As it says in the KB:

Note Under certain circumstances, it may be difficult to notice that the
disk numbering does not match the corresponding SATA or RAID channel
numbers. For example, if both SATA or RAID hard-disk sizes are identical,
it may be difficult to tell the disks apart by using these methods.


That is why I long ago learned to NAME my partitions, and to advise others
to do so. The first partition on each of my disks is named to correspond to
that disk:

Disk 0: Partition 1: SATA 200
Disk 1: Partition 1: SATA 300
Disk 2: Partition 1: SATA 1000 Mirror
Disk 3: Partition 1: SATA 1000 Mirror

Disks 2 and 3 are a software mirror of each other; each has 5 lettered
partitions.

Even if I were to switch cables, or if the computer were to enumerate the
disks differently, a quick glance at Disk Management would tell me which
disk is Disk 0. My motherboard has six SATA ports, and I've spent more time
than I should have needed in swapping SATA cables to try to ensure that SATA
200 is always Disk 0. Still, about once a week, when I boot up in the
morning, an error message pops up and I have to reboot - maybe 2 or 3
times - to get the computer to enumerate the disks in the proper order. (If
you have a tip on how to fix this, I'd like to hear it.)

This is part of the reason that my earlier post included the caution "to
watch carefully and be sure you are telling Setup.exe to install it into the
partition that you really want it in."

Hmmm... I just now noticed that this thread is crossposted to the
pc-homebuilt NG. My experience has been mostly with home-built PCs. While
I started with the TRS-80 in 1977 and played with other systems along the
way, I've used nothing but Windows since about Win95, so my comments really
apply just to Win8.

RC
-- --
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3505.0912) in Win8 Pro


"Zaphod Beeblebrox" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 01:45:16 +0000 (UTC), "John Doe"
wrote in article kd50nb$osm$1@dont-
email.me...

So... Probably a good idea to disconnect secondary hard drives when
installing Windows 8.



Given that starting with Windows Vista (IIRC), drive number enumeration
is not fixed and does not necessarily correspond to the BIOS order,
this is good advice.

In my experience at least, in XP and earlier you could rest assured
that the 1st drive in the BIOS was also the 1st drive in the listing in
Windows, 2nd was 2nd, etc. Today, in one boot it could be that way,
but in the next boot your drives could be enumerated in reverse order.

Microsoft recommends verifying "the disk drive on which you will set up
Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows Server 2008 R2, or Windows
7 by checking the disk information. For example, on the screen that
lets you select the drive for the setup destination, verify the volume
name and the available space."

See their support article "Disk drive numbers may not correspond as
expected to the SATA channel numbers when you install Windows on a
computer that has multiple SATA or RAID disks" at
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/937251 for more information.

--
Zaphod

  #8  
Old January 17th 13, 06:16 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-8
John Doe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 716
Default Using Macrium Reflect for backing up Windows 8

Please learn how to properly format a USENET reply.

Hint: We start with introductions, not a salutation.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off






All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PCbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.