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#46
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BillW50
On 3/7/2014 11:37 PM, Wolf K wrote:
Recently, a tech person "from Microsoft" told me I had a problem with my commuter. I kept telling him I had three computers (true at the time), and was anxious to fix the problem, but I didn't know which computer he was talking about, so could he please tell me? Unfortunately, I kept him on the line only a couple of minutes. I suppose keeping one of them on the line for a while is a "good thing to do" if it prevents them from calling someone else, but I think it's a little like spitting in the ocean. If it would cause that company to change its ways, I would do it. But, as you know,.... :-) |
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#47
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BillW50
On 07 Mar 2014, VanguardLH wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8: I either interrrupt and mute them them and put the phone aside so they're hanging on the line getting nuisanced like they nuisanced me, or I keep saying "Hello" or "Anyone there" while they're talking to pretend I can't hear them but I wait until they start to get up to speed in their script for when to interrupt. I have a buddy that has a script ready so while the telemarketer is talking he interrupts with "Yes, that sounds interesting and I'd like to know more but I'd like to ask you something. Have you heard about the power of Jesus?" The telemarketer tries to get back to his script but my buddy just keeps responding with canned statements about Jesus Saves, salvation through Jesus, and so on. He promises to send a bible so asks for a postal mailing address. Eventually they just hang up on him. Of course, that means not having anything else to do at the time and wanting to "play" the telemarketer. To be honest, I think he got the idea from some comediaine's skit. I used to try to mess with them like that, figuring that any time of theirs I waste, the worse off they are. I've since come to the conclusion that they don't care, they'll hang up on me the moment their attempt at pushing through their script seems stymied. In order to really get them, I'd have to hang in there much longer than it's worth to me. Also, just by answering the phone and talking, my number is now tagged as valid and is likely to be re-used and sold. So now I just don't answer any calls where I don't recognize the caller ID. I hate that it's come to this, but it's self-defense. In the rare case that I do accidentally answer their call and I feel like making a game of it, I'll pick up some handy nearly printed page, maybe a book or newspaper, or best of all would be a technical paper full of jargon or legalese. Then I'll answer their question with random sentences from the paper, spoken in a cadence that they would expect. In other words, my answer will be completely irrelevant to the topic, but it's still a good sentence. I might mumble it a little bit to to make them even more confused about what they're hearing. This can actually go on pretty long. If I started out being abusive or obviously trying to change the subject they'll hang right up, but if I truly confuse them, they might hang on longer, thinking they've got a real idiot on the line. |
#48
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Telemarketer , how to block
Per philo*:
http://www.nomorobo.com/ "Doesn't block school closings, doctor's appointment and prescription reminders, weather advisories and other legal robocalls." Can anybody speculate on how they do that? Whitelist? -- Pete Cresswell |
#49
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BillW50
On 3/8/14 12:44 PM, Nil wrote:
On 07 Mar 2014, VanguardLH wrote in alt.comp.os.windows-8: I either interrrupt and mute them them and put the phone aside so they're hanging on the line getting nuisanced like they nuisanced me, or I keep saying "Hello" or "Anyone there" while they're talking to pretend I can't hear them but I wait until they start to get up to speed in their script for when to interrupt. I have a buddy that has a script ready so while the telemarketer is talking he interrupts with "Yes, that sounds interesting and I'd like to know more but I'd like to ask you something. Have you heard about the power of Jesus?" The telemarketer tries to get back to his script but my buddy just keeps responding with canned statements about Jesus Saves, salvation through Jesus, and so on. He promises to send a bible so asks for a postal mailing address. Eventually they just hang up on him. Of course, that means not having anything else to do at the time and wanting to "play" the telemarketer. To be honest, I think he got the idea from some comediaine's skit. I used to try to mess with them like that, figuring that any time of theirs I waste, the worse off they are. I've since come to the conclusion that they don't care, they'll hang up on me the moment their attempt at pushing through their script seems stymied. In order to really get them, I'd have to hang in there much longer than it's worth to me. Also, just by answering the phone and talking, my number is now tagged as valid and is likely to be re-used and sold. So now I just don't answer any calls where I don't recognize the caller ID. I hate that it's come to this, but it's self-defense. In the rare case that I do accidentally answer their call and I feel like making a game of it, I'll pick up some handy nearly printed page, maybe a book or newspaper, or best of all would be a technical paper full of jargon or legalese. Then I'll answer their question with random sentences from the paper, spoken in a cadence that they would expect. In other words, my answer will be completely irrelevant to the topic, but it's still a good sentence. I might mumble it a little bit to to make them even more confused about what they're hearing. This can actually go on pretty long. If I started out being abusive or obviously trying to change the subject they'll hang right up, but if I truly confuse them, they might hang on longer, thinking they've got a real idiot on the line. I take a different tack on spammers. That's assuming I'm getting lot of them. If I don't hear a real voice, or what I believe is a real vs. recorded voice, I simply hang up. LOL -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 25.0 Thunderbird 24.3.0 |
#50
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Telemarketer , how to block
On 03/08/2014 02:04 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per philo : http://www.nomorobo.com/ "Doesn't block school closings, doctor's appointment and prescription reminders, weather advisories and other legal robocalls." Can anybody speculate on how they do that? Whitelist? It looks like they gather-up numbers from people who report them as being generated by a robo-caller...but "nomorobo" investigates prior to putting a number in the "blocked" list. So far, that annoying "Card Services" has not gotten through but I'll be able to judge better if this is really working in a few more days. |
#51
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BillW50
R. C. White wrote:
I always liked the story of the guy who just hands the phone to his 3-year-old daughter and lets her talk to the telemarketer. ;) I'd be leery of doing that. If the kid says anything that can be interpreted as accepting the telemarketer's offer, you could end up paying a lot for something you don't want and even be liable for recurring charges for some minimum subscription period. Trouble is, these days, so many are taped Robocalls and there's no way to talk back. :( The bot callers won't transfer to a real person until after you have pressed the number key(s) to accept the call or proceed through their script. They do that to keep you on their dialing list. If they reached voicemail then they won't get a response that will have them transfer you to their agent, so you stay on their list to get called again. Getting past the bot message to a real person is what changes the status to "Completed" in their records associated with your phone number. Be careful to listen to the bot message because just pressing a key could represent your acceptance of their offer. I used to "Press 1" at the earliest opportunity to speak to a person - who was eager to give the pitch to the "Live One" on the line, until I immediately interrupted and insisted they "put me on the Do Not Call list". Huh? It's not their responsibility or right to assume your authority to place you on the federal DNC list. You have to do that. In fact, to be sure you are the one that submitted the request means you have to give them a valid e-mail address to which they send a confirmation on which you have to act to complete your registration in adding your number to the DNC. Sometimes, if I remember, when I see no Caller ID info, I ask them why they are hiding. Can I call them back on that number? What number should I use to call THEM (not their company but the telemarketer themself) to use as confirmation they are who they say they are. They pretty much realize at the onset that I'm contentious. Maybe they're lying (well, pretty much a given because of their misleading marketspeak) and perhaps they're a burglar casing when I'm not at home so I want to know who is calling and not just by who they claim they are but why their telco isn't identifying their correct phone number to me. I'm on the DNC list. I ask them how they qualify for a variance from the DNC. Are they a political group, charity, surveyor (no sales), or what qualifies them as having a prior business relationship with me? If they don't qualify then I state I have been on the DNC for over 3 years so ample time has elapsed for them to acquire (buy) the updated DNC list. I also mention that I will filing a complaint record with the FTC to record their DNC violation which has a penalty of $16,000 per violation, and does the telemarketer want to risk their employment by endangering their employer. I don't yell or insult but keep it neutral but forceful. Usually they apologize and disconnect (and a few times mention they will update their list). Sometimes just the mention of the Do Not Call registry has them immediately say Sorry and hangup (so I lose the good part of my retort about the fine of $16,000). Many telemarketing scripts have been authored by experts, sometimes by sociologists. They get you to start agreeing and saying Yes and keep doing so to make you more susceptible to their offer. Someone that is kept saying Yes is morely like to continue saying Yes. Often the first thing they say is "Am I speaking with so-and-so" to get you to say Yes right away. When I hear that introduction, I say "Who is calling? Please identify yourself and your company." At the start, I don't agree but instead am contentious. That's not always. If I'm in the mood, I'll play them but typically I'm too busy at the time to waste [much] on them. |
#52
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BillW50
Alek Trishan wrote:
I suppose keeping one of them on the line for a while is a "good thing to do" if it prevents them from calling someone else, but I think it's a little like spitting in the ocean. Then I suspect you think greylisting has no effect on spam, either, but it does because it is a consistent and constant hurdle to spammers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greylisting http://forum.spamcop.net/scwik/GreyListing Too bad it isn't available as an option you can configure in your account at all e-mail providers. Greylisting can easily be circumvented by spammers operating their own servers by resubmitting the message in a few minutes -- but they don't. One, when they operate their own server then they're on the public blacklists and get blocked. Two, they can be identified by operating their own server (versus abusing someone else's over which they have no control over retries). Three, they're sending out millions of spams per day and cannot afford the time to spend on retries to any particular recipient. Easily circumvented doesn't equate to low expense in effort and time. Also remember that many telemarketing companies are not sophisticated computer savvy entities with high telephony bandwidth, professional staff, buying lists to know the interests of their callees, or working out of a shiny skyscraper. They're boiler room operations. Often you can hear the other telemarketers in the background since they can't even afford cubicle walls, just some tables with multiple phones on headsets on each. The three little words "Hold On, Please" while putting down your phone and walking off or doing something else rather than hanging up immediately makes each call so time-consuming that boiler rooms grind to a halt with idle telemarketers. Telemarketing companies do not have unlimited manpower. Even their dialer bots can handle only so many call per minute. They have a limited number of outgoing lines. Use up their limited resources but only if it gives you some satisfaction. Keep 'em busy with no success but do something else yourself in the meantime. Do you stand at the microwave oven waiting for the timer to expire? Their loss of time is not your loss of time. When I hear the loud beeping (http://www.soundjay.com/phone/sounds...off-hook-1.mp3) telling the call has been disconnected then I hang up the phone. Do I worry about losing another incoming call while keeping the telemarketer on hold? Nah, that's what voicemail is for, plus I use Google Voice as a front end to dial ALL my numbers (home, cell phones, and work at limited times) so I'll still get those other calls which I can pickup or leave to voicemail. By the way, there is a trick to avoid the bot dialers if you use your voicemail or answering machine for screening. Start your outgoing message with the "out of service" (aka vacant circuit aka special information tone or SIT) tone. I don't remember where I first got it but found one at: http://www.yourhomenow.com/sound/sit-tone.wav When the bots hear that, they assume the number they called is out of service (disconnected or has not yet been assigned), abort the call, and move on. You can keep your same outgoing message so good callers will understand to leave a message (while you're screening the call to see if you want to pickup). The tone doesn't confuse them because they don't know what it means, especially when followed by your outgoing message. |
#53
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BillW50
Alek Trishan wrote:
Those are all very interesting things to do, but frankly my time is more valuable to me than to spend it yanking chains. I consider it entertainment. Better fun and more productive than watching the crap on TV. |
#54
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BillW50
On 3/8/2014 4:53 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
I'm on the DNC list. Being on the DNC list does not protect you from robocallers based outside the US, as they are not subject to US laws. AFAIK. |
#55
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BillW50
On 08 Mar 2014, Ken Springer wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8: I take a different tack on spammers. That's assuming I'm getting lot of them. If I don't hear a real voice, or what I believe is a real vs. recorded voice, I simply hang up. LOL That's pretty much what I do, except that I don't answer the phone in the first place unless I recognize the caller ID, and if I do accidentally pick one of them up, I only play the game if I'm in the mood (which is almost never.) Hanging up is the best tactic at that point, but I suspect that you've already validated your number just by picking up the receiver. |
#56
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BillW50
Nil wrote:
On 07 Mar 2014, VanguardLH wrote in alt.comp.os.windows-8: I either interrrupt and mute them them and put the phone aside so they're hanging on the line getting nuisanced like they nuisanced me, or I keep saying "Hello" or "Anyone there" while they're talking to pretend I can't hear them but I wait until they start to get up to speed in their script for when to interrupt. I have a buddy that has a script ready so while the telemarketer is talking he interrupts with "Yes, that sounds interesting and I'd like to know more but I'd like to ask you something. Have you heard about the power of Jesus?" The telemarketer tries to get back to his script but my buddy just keeps responding with canned statements about Jesus Saves, salvation through Jesus, and so on. He promises to send a bible so asks for a postal mailing address. Eventually they just hang up on him. Of course, that means not having anything else to do at the time and wanting to "play" the telemarketer. To be honest, I think he got the idea from some comediaine's skit. I used to try to mess with them like that, figuring that any time of theirs I waste, the worse off they are. I've since come to the conclusion that they don't care, they'll hang up on me the moment their attempt at pushing through their script seems stymied. In order to really get them, I'd have to hang in there much longer than it's worth to me. Also, just by answering the phone and talking, my number is now tagged as valid and is likely to be re-used and sold. So now I just don't answer any calls where I don't recognize the caller ID. I hate that it's come to this, but it's self-defense. In the rare case that I do accidentally answer their call and I feel like making a game of it, I'll pick up some handy nearly printed page, maybe a book or newspaper, or best of all would be a technical paper full of jargon or legalese. Then I'll answer their question with random sentences from the paper, spoken in a cadence that they would expect. In other words, my answer will be completely irrelevant to the topic, but it's still a good sentence. I might mumble it a little bit to to make them even more confused about what they're hearing. This can actually go on pretty long. If I started out being abusive or obviously trying to change the subject they'll hang right up, but if I truly confuse them, they might hang on longer, thinking they've got a real idiot on the line. Yeah, sometimes they're aware they're being yanked. So keep them thinking you're intent on getting the connected with whomever they said they were calling. If they mention a name, I say "Hold on, I'll get him/her" and put them on mute/hold while reading another post here or do something else for a minute. I come back with "Who did you want? Oh yeah, hold on". Repeat the delay. Come back "Yes, this is give a different name. Oh, no, that's not me, hold on". Rather than just have them on hold indefinitely until they choose to hangup, keep them thinking you're trying to get the person they said they're trying to call. Sometimes I like to end the game myself instead of them hanging up so I come back a last time to say, "so-and-so just left to whatever. Sorry for making you wait. Bye." Then I hangup immediately without waiting for a response. There's lots of ways to play the stall-the-telemarketer game. |
#57
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BillW50
Zaky Waky wrote:
Wow! a thread centered on BillW50 about civility, rudeness and abrasiveness. Interesting where the "flow" moves the thread. Yes, we others decided to go off-topic to make something worthwile out of your flame thread. |
#58
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BillW50
On 3/8/2014 4:55 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
Alek Trishan wrote: Those are all very interesting things to do, but frankly my time is more valuable to me than to spend it yanking chains. I consider it entertainment. Better fun and more productive than watching the crap on TV. You're watching the wrong stuff! :-) What's productive about yanking chains? |
#59
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BillW50
Alek Trishan wrote:
VanguardLH wrote: I'm on the DNC list. Being on the DNC list does not protect you from robocallers based outside the US, as they are not subject to US laws. AFAIK. Yep, US laws often are not enforceable in non-reciprocal countries. Same for the CAN-SPAM law, too. |
#60
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BillW50
Alek Trishan wrote:
On 3/8/2014 4:55 PM, VanguardLH wrote: Alek Trishan wrote: Those are all very interesting things to do, but frankly my time is more valuable to me than to spend it yanking chains. I consider it entertainment. Better fun and more productive than watching the crap on TV. You're watching the wrong stuff! :-) What's the good stuff? The History channel isn't about history anymore. The SciFi channel isn't scifi anymore. Anything news can be had faster via Internet than waiting for a scheduled news show on TV. You think "Housewives something" is good stuff? I've seen all the good movies their show over and over and really don't care to see them again. Maybe you pay for the premium channels. I don't waste my money there. So, what's to "good stuff" that has educational or information value greater than the typical entertainment crap that is better than getting entertained by delaying or gaming a telemarketer? What's productive about yanking chains? Reasons already covered in other replies of mine. |
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