Not the only one here

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:56:05 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:42:56 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 11:14:32 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 09:36:29 -0500, R. C. White wrote:

Hi, PAS.

I don't drink cawfee...

Here in Texas, too, there is no "r" in our "coffee". ;)

RC

I also take mine black, no sugar.

Of course, the pronunciations of talk, coffee, & dog have nothing to do
with rhoticity[1].


Of course not. But RC knew that. g

While we're on the subject of rhoticity, let me also mention the
"intrusive r," used by many non-rhotic speakers. For example they say
"the idear is ..." instead of "the idea is ...," so they don't have to
say two vowels in a row.

As much as "idear" grates on me, I think I'm equally offended by "ideal"
when what a person really means to say is "idea". Maybe that was only my
ex-spouse...

Like Ken, I never heard that, but unlike him, my mothers-in-law only had
three-syllable ideas.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:03:55 -0700, Gene E. Bloch wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:47:21 -0500, R. C. White wrote:

Hi, Ken.

I'm learning some new terms today, perfesser. ;)

Like "rhoticity" and now the "intrusive r" - which I heard a lot growing up
in words like "winder". I've heard "idear", and I've often heard "idee" -
with the accent on the first syllable.

But a lot of the Oklahoma colloquialisms and regional pronunciations I heard
as a young boy had pretty much faded away by the time I became an adult. It
was mostly just a matter of time and education, but movies, radio - and then
TV - had a very large influence. Also, as I've mentioned before, our "Okie"
experiences - my family lived in California four separate times before I
finished grade school, and some of my cousins settled there and brought
their West Coast lingo back to us when they vacationed in Oklahoma -
produced a lot of cross-fertilization of our dialects. They laughed when we
worried they might "git drownded" in the creek (which they called a "crick")
and we were tickled when they reported a "heifer pig" running loose. When I
was in college at OU (The University of Oklahoma), a stranger I chatted with
on the street one days asked where I was from because I didn't talk like the
locals.

I didn't learn until I went to school that there is no "b" in "fambly", and
neither "b" nor "l" in "chimbley". ;)

As to rhoticity, I've been wondering why some of our English words that have
the "rh" combination precede that pair with another "r": hemorrhage and
diarrhea come quickly to mind.

RC

The last is a transliteration of the Greek.

Apparently they did something, at least in writing, like the Spanish
trick of doubling the r in a compound word where the second word starts
with an r, as portorriqueño, from Puerto Rico. This represents the
multiple trill of the initial r in Spanish.

I neglected to mention the reason that I cited the Spanish trick.

All of the words I know of that have 'rrh' are from compound words in
Greek where the second word starts with rho, like the two you mentioned.
'Rhe-' is from the verb 'rhein' = 'to flow', 'hema' from the word for
'blood', and 'dia' a prefix/preposition meaning 'through'.

All of the initial rhos that I've ever seen in Greek have the
hard-breathing sign, represented by the h in our usual transliteration,
whereas the usual rhos in midword don't have any breathing sign, hard or
soft. So the 'rrh' is a representation of an initial rho in the middle
of a word.

Or so I think. I can't find most of my books because everything is
hidden during some rebuilding work happening here, but I'm probably at
least close to *the truth* :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:46:55 -0700, Gene E. Bloch wrote:

hard-breathing

That should have been rough-breathing.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:46:55 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:03:55 -0700, Gene E. Bloch wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:47:21 -0500, R. C. White wrote:

Hi, Ken.

I'm learning some new terms today, perfesser. ;)

Like "rhoticity" and now the "intrusive r" - which I heard a lot growing up
in words like "winder". I've heard "idear", and I've often heard "idee" -
with the accent on the first syllable.

But a lot of the Oklahoma colloquialisms and regional pronunciations I heard
as a young boy had pretty much faded away by the time I became an adult. It
was mostly just a matter of time and education, but movies, radio - and then
TV - had a very large influence. Also, as I've mentioned before, our "Okie"
experiences - my family lived in California four separate times before I
finished grade school, and some of my cousins settled there and brought
their West Coast lingo back to us when they vacationed in Oklahoma -
produced a lot of cross-fertilization of our dialects. They laughed when we
worried they might "git drownded" in the creek (which they called a "crick")
and we were tickled when they reported a "heifer pig" running loose. When I
was in college at OU (The University of Oklahoma), a stranger I chatted with
on the street one days asked where I was from because I didn't talk like the
locals.

I didn't learn until I went to school that there is no "b" in "fambly", and
neither "b" nor "l" in "chimbley". ;)

As to rhoticity, I've been wondering why some of our English words that have
the "rh" combination precede that pair with another "r": hemorrhage and
diarrhea come quickly to mind.

RC

The last is a transliteration of the Greek.

Apparently they did something, at least in writing, like the Spanish
trick of doubling the r in a compound word where the second word starts
with an r, as portorriqueño, from Puerto Rico. This represents the
multiple trill of the initial r in Spanish.

I neglected to mention the reason that I cited the Spanish trick.

All of the words I know of that have 'rrh' are from compound words in
Greek where the second word starts with rho, like the two you mentioned.
'Rhe-' is from the verb 'rhein' = 'to flow', 'hema' from the word for
'blood', and 'dia' a prefix/preposition meaning 'through'.

All of the initial rhos that I've ever seen in Greek have the
hard-breathing sign, represented by the h in our usual transliteration,
whereas the usual rhos in midword don't have any breathing sign, hard or
soft. So the 'rrh' is a representation of an initial rho in the middle
of a word.



Thanks for the lesson. I didn't know that.

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:14:37 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:08:11 -0700, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:51:26 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

And in Boston & environs, that R intrudes even when there's not a vowel
following, as in JFK famously saying Cuber.

Soon he was at Miamer Beach?

Never. It's schwas, not 'ee' sounds, that get that.


I know. It was a poor attempt at humor, but it was the best I could
come up with at the spur of the moment.


Oh, never mind - you probably say "Miamuh', where I say 'Miamee', as did
JFK, since he was from Boston, not OKC.


Nope, I say "Miamee," as you do.

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:16:06 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:56:05 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:


As much as "idear" grates on me, I think I'm equally offended by "ideal"
when what a person really means to say is "idea". Maybe that was only my
ex-spouse...

Like Ken, I never heard that, but unlike him, my mothers-in-law only had
three-syllable ideas.


Perhaps that's because you've had more mothers-in-law than the single
one I've had.


Here's one of my favorite mother-in-law stories: she and my
father-in-law were visiting us one weekend, and I was doing the Sunday
NY Times crossword puzzle. I hadn't finished it yet, but I put it
down, and she asked "mind if I finish that for you?"

"Be my guest," I said, so she picked it up and started working on it.
She saw the definition that read "engineer" and said to her husband
"Len, you're an engineer, aren't you?" He said yes, so she wrote "Len"
in the puzzle.

If you think that sounds bad, you haven't heard the worst part. It was
a seven-letter word that the puzzle wanted.

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:51:24 -0700, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:46:55 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:03:55 -0700, Gene E. Bloch wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:47:21 -0500, R. C. White wrote:

Hi, Ken.

I'm learning some new terms today, perfesser. ;)

Like "rhoticity" and now the "intrusive r" - which I heard a lot growing up
in words like "winder". I've heard "idear", and I've often heard "idee" -
with the accent on the first syllable.

But a lot of the Oklahoma colloquialisms and regional pronunciations I heard
as a young boy had pretty much faded away by the time I became an adult. It
was mostly just a matter of time and education, but movies, radio - and then
TV - had a very large influence. Also, as I've mentioned before, our "Okie"
experiences - my family lived in California four separate times before I
finished grade school, and some of my cousins settled there and brought
their West Coast lingo back to us when they vacationed in Oklahoma -
produced a lot of cross-fertilization of our dialects. They laughed when we
worried they might "git drownded" in the creek (which they called a "crick")
and we were tickled when they reported a "heifer pig" running loose. When I
was in college at OU (The University of Oklahoma), a stranger I chatted with
on the street one days asked where I was from because I didn't talk like the
locals.

I didn't learn until I went to school that there is no "b" in "fambly", and
neither "b" nor "l" in "chimbley". ;)

As to rhoticity, I've been wondering why some of our English words that have
the "rh" combination precede that pair with another "r": hemorrhage and
diarrhea come quickly to mind.

RC

The last is a transliteration of the Greek.

Apparently they did something, at least in writing, like the Spanish
trick of doubling the r in a compound word where the second word starts
with an r, as portorriqueño, from Puerto Rico. This represents the
multiple trill of the initial r in Spanish.

I neglected to mention the reason that I cited the Spanish trick.

All of the words I know of that have 'rrh' are from compound words in
Greek where the second word starts with rho, like the two you mentioned.
'Rhe-' is from the verb 'rhein' = 'to flow', 'hema' from the word for
'blood', and 'dia' a prefix/preposition meaning 'through'.

All of the initial rhos that I've ever seen in Greek have the
hard-breathing sign, represented by the h in our usual transliteration,
whereas the usual rhos in midword don't have any breathing sign, hard or
soft. So the 'rrh' is a representation of an initial rho in the middle
of a word.


Thanks for the lesson. I didn't know that.

I spent some time later online trying to learn more. It's pretty
complicated, what with the classic language changing both in time and
space, and often faster than the writing scheme changed.

But my idea is not contradicted, at least :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:54:09 -0700, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

I know. It was a poor attempt at humor, but it was the best I could
come up with at the spur of the moment.

Those sharp points can be dangerous :-)

Ask me how *I* know...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 17:04:02 -0700, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:16:06 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:56:05 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:


As much as "idear" grates on me, I think I'm equally offended by "ideal"
when what a person really means to say is "idea". Maybe that was only my
ex-spouse...

Like Ken, I never heard that, but unlike him, my mothers-in-law only had
three-syllable ideas.

Perhaps that's because you've had more mothers-in-law than the single
one I've had.

Here's one of my favorite mother-in-law stories: she and my
father-in-law were visiting us one weekend, and I was doing the Sunday
NY Times crossword puzzle. I hadn't finished it yet, but I put it
down, and she asked "mind if I finish that for you?"

"Be my guest," I said, so she picked it up and started working on it.
She saw the definition that read "engineer" and said to her husband
"Len, you're an engineer, aren't you?" He said yes, so she wrote "Len"
in the puzzle.

If you think that sounds bad, you haven't heard the worst part. It was
a seven-letter word that the puzzle wanted.

That hurts...

But you're much kinder than I - I would have said "No![1]". Maybe I
would have added "If you want to do it, I'll go to the store and get you
a new newspaper". Or maybe I wouldn't have added that...

[1] More like "No! No! Never!" - or worse...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 18:08:20 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 17:04:02 -0700, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:16:06 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:56:05 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:


As much as "idear" grates on me, I think I'm equally offended by "ideal"
when what a person really means to say is "idea". Maybe that was only my
ex-spouse...

Like Ken, I never heard that, but unlike him, my mothers-in-law only had
three-syllable ideas.

Perhaps that's because you've had more mothers-in-law than the single
one I've had.

Here's one of my favorite mother-in-law stories: she and my
father-in-law were visiting us one weekend, and I was doing the Sunday
NY Times crossword puzzle. I hadn't finished it yet, but I put it
down, and she asked "mind if I finish that for you?"

"Be my guest," I said, so she picked it up and started working on it.
She saw the definition that read "engineer" and said to her husband
"Len, you're an engineer, aren't you?" He said yes, so she wrote "Len"
in the puzzle.

If you think that sounds bad, you haven't heard the worst part. It was
a seven-letter word that the puzzle wanted.

That hurts...

But you're much kinder than I - I would have said "No![1]". Maybe I
would have added "If you want to do it, I'll go to the store and get you
a new newspaper". Or maybe I wouldn't have added that...



I had thought that she would have been unable to write anything and I
would get it back the way I left it.


Boy, was I wrong! She wrote all over the puzzle.

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 17:04:02 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

[snip]

Here's one of my favorite mother-in-law stories: she and my
father-in-law were visiting us one weekend, and I was doing the Sunday
NY Times crossword puzzle. I hadn't finished it yet, but I put it
down, and she asked "mind if I finish that for you?"

"Be my guest," I said, so she picked it up and started working on it.
She saw the definition that read "engineer" and said to her husband
"Len, you're an engineer, aren't you?" He said yes, so she wrote "Len"
in the puzzle.

If you think that sounds bad, you haven't heard the worst part. It was
a seven-letter word that the puzzle wanted.

Obviously, the answer was "LEONARD".

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 17:04:02 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

Here's one of my favorite mother-in-law stories: she and my
father-in-law were visiting us one weekend, and I was doing the Sunday
NY Times crossword puzzle. I hadn't finished it yet, but I put it
down, and she asked "mind if I finish that for you?"

"Be my guest," I said, so she picked it up and started working on it.
She saw the definition that read "engineer" and said to her husband
"Len, you're an engineer, aren't you?" He said yes, so she wrote "Len"
in the puzzle.

If you think that sounds bad, you haven't heard the worst part. It was
a seven-letter word that the puzzle wanted.

That's hilarious! Two jokes in one story. You should submit it to Reader's
Digest. They pay for gold like that.

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:10:22 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:56:05 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:


As much as "idear" grates on me, I think I'm equally offended by "ideal"
when what a person really means to say is "idea". Maybe that was only my
ex-spouse...


I don't think I've ever heard that, but I remember my mother-in-law,
who said "idee."

That reminds me of the joke where a guy gets pulled over somewhere way down
South, and the Trooper asks him for his ID. The guy looks at the Trooper for
a bit, squints, pushes his toothpick over to one side of his mouth, and
answers, "'Bout what?"

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:47:21 -0500, "R. C. White"
wrote in

When I
was in college at OU (The University of Oklahoma), a stranger I chatted with
on the street one days asked where I was from because I didn't talk like the
locals.

I was at OU from 1968 to 1972 in the College of Engineering. I went
there from being born and raised in NYC. I had to make a lot of
adjustments but I loved it. One change was learning how to change my
drink from coffee "regular" (as NYC people call it, 3 tsp sugar with a
lot of milk) to "black, no sugar". I still drink it black to this
day.

BTW, I never went back to city living.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

Hi, CRNG.

After junior college, I was at OU only 2 years, 1954-56 (in the middle of
the 47-game winning streak!), getting my BBA in Accounting. The main things
I remember about the engineers was that they painted everything green -
including their creatively-styled beards - on St. Patrick's Day. ;) I've
never been closer to NYC than Chattanooga - once.

I've always drunk my coffee with generous cream, no sugar. And caffeine
doesn't bother me so I love a cup before bedtime. Until then, I also drank
my iced tea sweet. But in my first (junior) year at OU, my working-my-way
through job was in the kitchen at Cate Center, the girls' dorm complex. My
job was washing the pots and pans - in a giant metal tub of water with a
steam pipe feeding it to keep the water as hot as I could stand it, with the
rinse tub kept just under the boiling point. As you surely recall, it gets
HOT in Norman! When my co-workers saw me sweating, they would bring me a
glass of iced tea. They usually hadn't taken time to sweeten it, but I
gulped it down anyhow - gladly! And I still drink my tea unsweetened.

Boomer! Sooner!

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3528.0331) in Win8.1 Pro with Media
Center


"CRNG" wrote in message ...

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:47:21 -0500, "R. C. White"
wrote in

When I
was in college at OU (The University of Oklahoma), a stranger I chatted
with
on the street one days asked where I was from because I didn't talk like
the
locals.

I was at OU from 1968 to 1972 in the College of Engineering. I went
there from being born and raised in NYC. I had to make a lot of
adjustments but I loved it. One change was learning how to change my
drink from coffee "regular" (as NYC people call it, 3 tsp sugar with a
lot of milk) to "black, no sugar". I still drink it black to this
day.

BTW, I never went back to city living.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.