storage shelf life

A recent post mentioned using computer storage devices for long term
storage. The following may be of interest:
http://windowssecrets.com/langalist-...sh-shelf-life/

Glenn wrote:
A recent post mentioned using computer storage devices for long term
storage. The following may be of interest:
http://windowssecrets.com/langalist-...sh-shelf-life/


What were The Dead Sea Scrolls on? A ScanDisk memory stick?

Ed

On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 19:48:34 +0100, Ed Cryer
wrote:

Glenn wrote:
A recent post mentioned using computer storage devices for long term
storage. The following may be of interest:
http://windowssecrets.com/langalist-...sh-shelf-life/


What were The Dead Sea Scrolls on? A ScanDisk memory stick?

Ed

Read the reference.

On 9/21/2014 1:46 PM, Glenn wrote:
A recent post mentioned using computer storage devices for long term
storage. The following may be of interest:
http://windowssecrets.com/langalist-...sh-shelf-life/


There was this recently:

"How to Preserve and to Access Information for Over 1 Million Years"

http://mainframe.typepad.com/blog/20...ion-years.html

Glenn wrote:
A recent post mentioned using computer storage devices for long term
storage. The following may be of interest:
http://windowssecrets.com/langalist-...sh-shelf-life/

Well, it's a never ending topic. And solutions
appear faster than any responsible independent
group can test them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-disc

Paul

On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 16:48:06 -0400, Paul wrote:

Glenn wrote:
A recent post mentioned using computer storage devices for long term
storage. The following may be of interest:
http://windowssecrets.com/langalist-...sh-shelf-life/

Well, it's a never ending topic. And solutions
appear faster than any responsible independent
group can test them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-disc

Paul

Trust me, IBM Germany is a responsible group, been there, not to be
confused with our gee whiz children posing as engineers.

In message , Glenn
writes
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 16:48:06 -0400, Paul wrote:

Glenn wrote:
A recent post mentioned using computer storage devices for long term
storage. The following may be of interest:
http://windowssecrets.com/langalist-...sh-shelf-life/

Well, it's a never ending topic. And solutions
appear faster than any responsible independent
group can test them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-disc

Paul

Trust me, IBM Germany is a responsible group, been there, not to be
confused with our gee whiz children posing as engineers.

It might be worth noting that the IBM Germany report is 8 years old, and
may not reflect current views.

My opinion, based on experiences with failing CD and DVD-RW's is that
the situation is worse than those reports imply. I've also had a couple
of failed flash memory devices.

I still burn CD's and DVD's, but anything important is still backed up
to more than one hard drive on more than one machine as well.
--
Bill

Ed Cryer ed somewhere.in.the.uk wrote:

Glenn wrote:

A recent post mentioned using computer storage devices for long
term storage. The following may be of interest:
http://windowssecrets.com/langalist-...ash-shelf-life

What were The Dead Sea Scrolls on? A ScanDisk memory stick?

That's a good one. I mean really good.

Glenn minorgo gmail.com wrote:

Trust me, IBM Germany is a responsible group, been there, not to
be confused with our gee whiz children posing as engineers.

Are you a stockholder?








--
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From: Glenn minorgo gmail.com
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-8
Subject: storage shelf life
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In message , DK
writes
In article , Glenn
wrote:
A recent post mentioned using computer storage devices for long term
storage. The following may be of interest:
http://windowssecrets.com/langalist-...sh-shelf-life/

Maybe it's just luck but I haven't had a single CDR burned by me
failing reading merely after storage. My discs go back to 1997 and
number in a few 100s. Storing them in the dark appears the most
important things to do.

DK
I think you have been lucky, then. I bought one of the first affordable
HP CD burners, whenever that was.
The majority are OK, but I have had a few that looked OK, but just
became unreadable.
I also had a couple of DVD's that, when I came to use them, had split
horizontally into a clear plastic disk and the active writable part and
2 or 3 that developed radial cracks from the centre hole. I think almost
all these with mechanical failures were cheaper non-badged ones (mainly
bought from Maplin in the UK). The non-readable look-OK ones were a mix
of badged and cheapos. All were stored in sleeves or cases in
light-proof boxes in normal household temperatures
--
Bill

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:01:06 GMT, (DK)
wrote:

In article , Glenn wrote:
A recent post mentioned using computer storage devices for long term
storage. The following may be of interest:
http://windowssecrets.com/langalist-...sh-shelf-life/

Maybe it's just luck but I haven't had a single CDR burned by me
failing reading merely after storage. My discs go back to 1997 and
number in a few 100s. Storing them in the dark appears the most
important things to do.

DK

How do you know? When was the last time you validated all your 100s of
discs? You may have failures hidden in the dark.

Steve

--
Neural Network Software http://www.npsnn.com
EasyNN-plus More than just a neural network http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN Prediction software http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN Just a neural network http://www.justnn.com

Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:01:06 GMT, (DK)
wrote:

In article , Glenn wrote:
A recent post mentioned using computer storage devices for long term
storage. The following may be of interest:
http://windowssecrets.com/langalist-...sh-shelf-life/
Maybe it's just luck but I haven't had a single CDR burned by me
failing reading merely after storage. My discs go back to 1997 and
number in a few 100s. Storing them in the dark appears the most
important things to do.

DK

How do you know? When was the last time you validated all your 100s of
discs? You may have failures hidden in the dark.

Steve


With optical discs, you have to be a little more careful than that.

Optical discs are protected by Reed Solomon three dimensional
code (of which not all dimensions need be implemented - some
optical drive mechanisms might do two of the three).

If you use a simple "lets read this disc and open a file
or two", error correction is applied to every read operation.

You can also evaluate discs at the raw read level. Certain
scanning applications do this.

And that's something you can do, just after a burn. Establish
a baseline for the media. Is the media in the 10 range, or
in the 10,000 range.

http://www.cdrlabs.com/forums/bought...ad-t22978.html

Additional fun can be had, if you have certain Liteon drives,
which made one of the other error indicators available.

Running scans like those, is a way of catching a disc before
it goes bad. You would need to keep a snapshot of the scan
after the burn, to have a way to do a delta and see the
degradation.

I learned a bit about scanning, when I had a bad batch of CDRW
discs. Those had "rot", which you could see as a change
in the physical appearance of the discs. The very last
one of those discs (never put in a drive), was almost
completely transparent, having lost any semblance of
being a recording device. When the discs were brand new,
you could already see the high error rate near the
beginning of the disc. A telltale sign your burn sucks.
When they start with a high error rate, it won't take
much for the disc to completely die. Which they did.

There is a claim, that Reed Solomon error correction on
CDs is powerful enough, that a failure to read the disc
is actually a failure of the laser to be able to follow
the groove any more. It means, if the laser can track
the spiral groove, the Reed Solomon can correct errors,
even when the scan is pretty bad looking. And that's why
you should use a "scan" as an early indicator of trouble.
Before the laser can no longer track, and really, no
(raw) data at all is coming off the disc.

While SMART would be useful as an indicator of the
health of a hard drive, a "scan" of an optical disc
is the canary in the coal mine for opticals.

Paul

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:27:20 +0100, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:01:06 GMT, (DK)
wrote:

In article , Glenn wrote:
A recent post mentioned using computer storage devices for long term
storage. The following may be of interest:
http://windowssecrets.com/langalist-...sh-shelf-life/

Maybe it's just luck but I haven't had a single CDR burned by me
failing reading merely after storage. My discs go back to 1997 and
number in a few 100s. Storing them in the dark appears the most
important things to do.

DK

How do you know? When was the last time you validated all your 100s of
discs? You may have failures hidden in the dark.

Steve

He didn't say all of his disks are OK, he said he hasn't had a failure.

As for the ones he hasn't looked at, he's in the dark about them.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:07:44 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:27:20 +0100, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:01:06 GMT, (DK)
wrote:

In article , Glenn wrote:
A recent post mentioned using computer storage devices for long term
storage. The following may be of interest:
http://windowssecrets.com/langalist-...sh-shelf-life/

Maybe it's just luck but I haven't had a single CDR burned by me
failing reading merely after storage. My discs go back to 1997 and
number in a few 100s. Storing them in the dark appears the most
important things to do.

DK

How do you know? When was the last time you validated all your 100s of
discs? You may have failures hidden in the dark.

Steve

He didn't say all of his disks are OK, he said he hasn't had a failure.

As for the ones he hasn't looked at, he's in the dark about them.


Yes, and they are in the dark about him.

On 23/09/2014 5:01 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:07:44 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:27:20 +0100, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:01:06 GMT, (DK)
wrote:

In article , Glenn wrote:
A recent post mentioned using computer storage devices for long term
storage. The following may be of interest:
http://windowssecrets.com/langalist-...sh-shelf-life/

Maybe it's just luck but I haven't had a single CDR burned by me
failing reading merely after storage. My discs go back to 1997 and
number in a few 100s. Storing them in the dark appears the most
important things to do.

DK

How do you know? When was the last time you validated all your 100s of
discs? You may have failures hidden in the dark.

Steve

He didn't say all of his disks are OK, he said he hasn't had a failure.

As for the ones he hasn't looked at, he's in the dark about them.


Yes, and they are in the dark about him.

I purchased a stack of Tayo Yuden DVD's from here

http://www.jpldisplays.com.au/catalo...oducts_id=2743

They say that they have a life of 100 years under proper storage conditions.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maurice Helwig
~~~~~~~~~~~~