Liking it?

On 15/02/2015 in message
Roderick Stewart wrote:

I shan't even be bothering with any of these third party menu systems
while evaluating Windows 10, because as far as I'm concerned an
operating system can only be considered valid if it performs in a
suitably ergonomic fashion as supplied. Departure from defaults should
only be for personal preference, not to make essential features work.

If you could only make Microsoft understand that you would be doing the
whole community a service!

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
You can't tell which way the train went by looking at the tracks

On 15/02/2015 12:04 am, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 23:46:25 +0000, Roderick Stewart
wrote:

Tried Classic Shell with Windows 8, and although it does a nice job,
it shouldn't really be necessary to add anything to make the operating
system itself behave as it should


I agree with you. It shouldn't be necessary, but it is.

Classic Shell is very good, but in my view,
Start8 (which costs only $5 US) is even better.


It's very limited compared to what one can do with Classic Shell, though.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

Assumption - an error of which you are as yet unaware.

On 15/02/2015 8:35 am, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 15/02/2015 in message
Roderick Stewart wrote:

I shan't even be bothering with any of these third party menu systems
while evaluating Windows 10, because as far as I'm concerned an
operating system can only be considered valid if it performs in a
suitably ergonomic fashion as supplied. Departure from defaults should
only be for personal preference, not to make essential features work.

If you could only make Microsoft understand that you would be doing the
whole community a service!


Hear, hear.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

If I only had a little humility, I'd be perfect.

"Dino" wrote in message
...
Cy Burnot wrote:
Ken Blake, MVP wrote on 2/14/2015 7:04 PM:
Classic Shell is very good, but in my view,
Start8 (which costs only $5 US) is even better.


What do you like about Start8?

You can choose classic Win 7 which is why I like it.

You can choose Win7 Classic with Classic Shell, too. I'm not sure how well
it works on Win8.1 since I use StartIsBack on it (and would on Win10TP also
if it would install on it), but right now I have my Win10TP system set up to
look just like my Win7 PC. Took very little work or time to do so, and it
was free (that's right, FREE, LOL).
--
SC Tom

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 19:40:22 -0500, Cy Burnot
wrote:

Ken Blake, MVP wrote on 2/14/2015 7:04 PM:

Classic Shell is very good, but in my view,
Start8 (which costs only $5 US) is even better.


What do you like about Start8?


Sorry, it's been too long since I compared them and I can't give you
the details. But I recommend that you get the 30-day free trial of
Start8 and judge for yourself which *you* like better.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 04:46:47 -0700, Franklin wrote:

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 07:43:07 +0000, Roderick Stewart
wrote:

From recollection (because I no longer have any Windows 8
installations) Classic Shell did have a mode that was very like
Windows 7, or close enough not to matter.

On the other hand, I no longer care because for the time being I'm
using something that looks even more like Windows 7. It's called
Windows 7.

I shan't even be bothering with any of these third party menu systems
while evaluating Windows 10, because as far as I'm concerned an
operating system can only be considered valid if it performs in a
suitably ergonomic fashion as supplied. Departure from defaults should
only be for personal preference, not to make essential features work.

The "third-party" argument for not using Win8 (and the upcoming Win10)
is weak, at best.

You used a third-party newsreader to post that message.

Lots of people use lots of third-party software to do basic things
that Win XP/7/8/(and the upcoming Win10) do poorly or not at all.

AntiVirus/Firewall - Comodo, McAfee, Kaspersky, etc
Backup - TrueImage, Macrium Reflect, etc
Defrag - MyDefrag, Auslogics, Perfect Disk, etc
Email/newsreader - Agent, Thunderbird, etc
File search - AgentRansack, etc
Graphics viewer - IrfanView, PaintShop Pro, etc
Media player - MPC-HC, VLC, etc
Text editor - UltraEdit, Notepad++, etc
Web browser - Firefox (and variants of), Opera, etc

and stuff like clock replacements, compression programs, encryption
programs, file shredders, partitioning programs, performance monitors,
virtual drive programs, Win/File Explorer replacements, word
processors, etc.

How many third-party programs and utilities are on your computer(s)?
(I can't even imagine what Paul's answer would be)

So, using a third-party menu program just isn't that big a deal. It's
a means to configure a Win8/10 menu to your personal preference.



A *very* big ditto!

Yes, it would be better if Windows did everything wonderfully, but
since we all have different tastes, it can never be wonderful to
everyone.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 08:16:28 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 19:40:22 -0500, Cy Burnot
wrote:

Ken Blake, MVP wrote on 2/14/2015 7:04 PM:

Classic Shell is very good, but in my view,
Start8 (which costs only $5 US) is even better.


What do you like about Start8?


Sorry, it's been too long since I compared them and I can't give you
the details. But I recommend that you get the 30-day free trial of
Start8 and judge for yourself which *you* like better.


I just googled Classic Shell Start8 Compar and found this site:
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/fea...ssic_shell2013


You might want to take a look at it.

Franklin wrote on 2/15/2015 6:46 AM:

The "third-party" argument for not using Win8 (and the upcoming Win10)
is weak, at best.

You used a third-party newsreader to post that message.

Lots of people use lots of third-party software to do basic things
that Win XP/7/8/(and the upcoming Win10) do poorly or not at all.

AntiVirus/Firewall - Comodo, McAfee, Kaspersky, etc
Backup - TrueImage, Macrium Reflect, etc
Defrag - MyDefrag, Auslogics, Perfect Disk, etc
Email/newsreader - Agent, Thunderbird, etc
File search - AgentRansack, etc
Graphics viewer - IrfanView, PaintShop Pro, etc
Media player - MPC-HC, VLC, etc
Text editor - UltraEdit, Notepad++, etc
Web browser - Firefox (and variants of), Opera, etc

and stuff like clock replacements, compression programs, encryption
programs, file shredders, partitioning programs, performance monitors,
virtual drive programs, Win/File Explorer replacements, word
processors, etc.

How many third-party programs and utilities are on your computer(s)?
(I can't even imagine what Paul's answer would be)

So, using a third-party menu program just isn't that big a deal. It's
a means to configure a Win8/10 menu to your personal preference.



But having to use 3rd-party software to make the user interface work
better seems to be different from preferring a different browser.

On 15 Feb 2015, Roderick Stewart wrote
in alt.comp.os.windows-10:

I shan't even be bothering with any of these third party menu
systems while evaluating Windows 10, because as far as I'm
concerned an operating system can only be considered valid if it
performs in a suitably ergonomic fashion as supplied. Departure
from defaults should only be for personal preference, not to make
essential features work.

I think that attitude is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
There's no downside to using Classic Shell.

I also use Classic Shell with Windows 7... because it enables features
that Windows 7 doesn't have that XP did have.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 13:16:19 -0500, Nil
wrote:

On 15 Feb 2015, Roderick Stewart wrote
in alt.comp.os.windows-10:

I shan't even be bothering with any of these third party menu
systems while evaluating Windows 10, because as far as I'm
concerned an operating system can only be considered valid if it
performs in a suitably ergonomic fashion as supplied. Departure
from defaults should only be for personal preference, not to make
essential features work.

I think that attitude is cutting off your nose to spite your face.


A strong ditto!


There's no downside to using Classic Shell.


.... or Start8, which I prefer (although both are very good). Another
strong ditto!

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 08:28:04 -0700, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 08:16:28 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 19:40:22 -0500, Cy Burnot
wrote:

Ken Blake, MVP wrote on 2/14/2015 7:04 PM:

Classic Shell is very good, but in my view, Start8 (which
costs only $5 US) is even better.

What do you like about Start8?

Sorry, it's been too long since I compared them and I can't give
you the details. But I recommend that you get the 30-day free
trial of Start8 and judge for yourself which *you* like better.

I just googled Classic Shell Start8 Compar and found this site:
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/fea...ssic_shell2013

You might want to take a look at it.

TLDR: Start8 is simpler to use, thus preferred by old-timers.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 13:16:19 -0500, Nil
wrote:

I shan't even be bothering with any of these third party menu
systems while evaluating Windows 10, because as far as I'm
concerned an operating system can only be considered valid if it
performs in a suitably ergonomic fashion as supplied. Departure
from defaults should only be for personal preference, not to make
essential features work.

I think that attitude is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
There's no downside to using Classic Shell.

Not really. It's an evaluation version. The fairest evaluation of
something is to determine how well it can perform as it is, without
any extra bells and whistles. In the unlikely event that I end up
actually using Windows 10, I may then investigate third party
improvements if they look useful, but for now I just want to see what
it can do.

I also use Classic Shell with Windows 7... because it enables features
that Windows 7 doesn't have that XP did have.

Now that's something I didn't know. What do you think it will do for
me on my Windows 7 computers that I can't already do?

Rod.

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 21:34:27 -0500, Big_Al wrote:

Gene E. Bloch wrote on 2/13/2015 7:40 PM:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 19:24:37 -0500, Big_Al wrote:

It's not much stuff and not very often, so it's not a big chore for me,
and I always chortle when I do it.

Some of it also comes with tabs to align text, and I change them to
spaces, since I'm sure the viewers will not all have the same default
spacing for tabs.

Tabs slay me. I use Notepad++ and then notepad does it diff, word diff, etc. It's fun.

I use Ctrl-H in NP++ to replace all tabs with spaces. I also like that I can
add or remove CRLF's in NP++ to change formatting.

Roderick Stewart wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 08:05:12 -0500, "SC Tom" wrote:


Using Classic Shell, you can turn the tiles off, select a Start Menu style
you like, and customize it to your heart's content, if you so desire :-)
Not sure if the latest release version will do it (Win10TP wouldn't allow
me to install it last time I tried), but the latest Beta version will, and
it works just fine (so far).

Tried Classic Shell with Windows 8, and although it does a nice job,
it shouldn't really be necessary to add anything to make the operating
system itself behave as it should.

And how should an operating system behave?





I thought they were going to fix
this in Windows 10, but it appears they haven't quite done it yet.

Rod.

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 10:49:41 +0000, Darklight
wrote:


Tried Classic Shell with Windows 8, and although it does a nice job,
it shouldn't really be necessary to add anything to make the operating
system itself behave as it should.

And how should an operating system behave?

It should behave in an ergonomic and intuitive manner that enables me
to do all the normal things I've been doing with computers for decades
without having to re-learn everything I know about them first.

Rod.