mandatory updates

Hi All,

On the "oh no" front, Son-of Frankenstein (W10 preview) is
now requiring mandatory updates. And, I can't help but notice
that the first update I did required me to reinstall the
entire OS.

M$ has a bad history of bad updates. Here are 20 examples
for your amusement:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/288...meltdowns.html

I wish M$ would reverse themselves on this.

-T

On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 17:48:11 -0800, T wrote:

Hi All,

On the "oh no" front, Son-of Frankenstein (W10 preview) is
now requiring mandatory updates. And, I can't help but notice
that the first update I did required me to reinstall the
entire OS.


[snip]

I wish M$ would reverse themselves on this.


You're running pre-release code. What do you expect? If you think you
can run it as you would Windows 7, think again.

If you don't like what it's doing to your system don't run it.

Geoff wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 17:48:11 -0800, T wrote:

Hi All,

On the "oh no" front, Son-of Frankenstein (W10 preview) is
now requiring mandatory updates. And, I can't help but notice
that the first update I did required me to reinstall the
entire OS.


[snip]

I wish M$ would reverse themselves on this.


You're running pre-release code. What do you expect? If you think you
can run it as you would Windows 7, think again.

If you don't like what it's doing to your system don't run it.

Unfortunately, the plan is for the Win10 RTM to do the same thing.

This will be accompanied with a new Terms and Conditions
for Windows 10. It states:

"You don't own this computer. It now belongs to Microsoft.
You have to ask nicely, if you want a few cycles. We're
busy now, so go away."

That's the Windows 10 T&C. And this is how Skynet started...

HTH,
Paul

In message , Geoff
writes
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 17:48:11 -0800, T wrote:

Hi All,

On the "oh no" front, Son-of Frankenstein (W10 preview) is
now requiring mandatory updates. And, I can't help but notice
that the first update I did required me to reinstall the
entire OS.


You're running pre-release code. What do you expect? If you think you
can run it as you would Windows 7, think again.

If you don't like what it's doing to your system don't run it.

I can't see any problem with mandatory updates of pre-release code.
Anything else would be a waste of everyone's time.

But what is worrying is the way that Windows update was dumbed down when
being moved from Control Panel to Settings, and the fact that I saw a
statement that this would be changed for the release version, but
another statement in a Microsoft blog appeared to contradict this.

I've just had to bring a machine up to date from the recovery partition
on a W7 laptop. This involved a bunch of updates, then a service pack,
then another bunch of updates. On several attempts the update process
ran for ages, then said the updates had failed. To get round this, the
updates had to be installed in small batches. I don't think the order
had to be changed, but rather that early updates had to be fully
installed via a restart before the others would "take". In these
circumstances all or nothing updates don't work and would be a
deal-breaker.

Also Microsoft seems to be saying that the versions of W10 issued to the
public would have updates that included 'improvements', new features and
developments. The implication of the blog was that these would be
mandatory for the 'public', but that corporate users would have
different long term support versions that would not have mandatory
updates.

I have sent feedback to Microsoft about this and suggested in the forum
that there needs to be a clear statement of policy.
--
Bill

On 27/02/2015 12:56 pm, Bill wrote:
In message , Geoff
writes
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 17:48:11 -0800, T wrote:

Hi All,

On the "oh no" front, Son-of Frankenstein (W10 preview) is
now requiring mandatory updates. And, I can't help but notice
that the first update I did required me to reinstall the
entire OS.


You're running pre-release code. What do you expect? If you think you
can run it as you would Windows 7, think again.

If you don't like what it's doing to your system don't run it.

I can't see any problem with mandatory updates of pre-release code.
Anything else would be a waste of everyone's time.

But what is worrying is the way that Windows update was dumbed down when
being moved from Control Panel to Settings, and the fact that I saw a
statement that this would be changed for the release version, but
another statement in a Microsoft blog appeared to contradict this.

I've just had to bring a machine up to date from the recovery partition
on a W7 laptop. This involved a bunch of updates, then a service pack,
then another bunch of updates. On several attempts the update process
ran for ages, then said the updates had failed. To get round this, the
updates had to be installed in small batches. I don't think the order
had to be changed, but rather that early updates had to be fully
installed via a restart before the others would "take". In these
circumstances all or nothing updates don't work and would be a
deal-breaker.

Also Microsoft seems to be saying that the versions of W10 issued to the
public would have updates that included 'improvements', new features and
developments. The implication of the blog was that these would be
mandatory for the 'public', but that corporate users would have
different long term support versions that would not have mandatory
updates.

I have sent feedback to Microsoft about this and suggested in the forum
that there needs to be a clear statement of policy.


I have done likewise. The whole update procedure is unclear and vague,
and takes away too much user control.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

If a man stands in the middle of the forest speaking and there is no
woman around to hear him, is he still wrong?

On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 20:49:34 -0800, Geoff
wrote:

You're running pre-release code. What do you expect? If you think you
can run it as you would Windows 7, think again.

If you don't like what it's doing to your system don't run it.


A strong ditto!

On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 01:54:31 -0500, Paul wrote:

Geoff wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 17:48:11 -0800, T wrote:

Hi All,

On the "oh no" front, Son-of Frankenstein (W10 preview) is
now requiring mandatory updates. And, I can't help but notice
that the first update I did required me to reinstall the
entire OS.


[snip]

I wish M$ would reverse themselves on this.


You're running pre-release code. What do you expect? If you think you
can run it as you would Windows 7, think again.

If you don't like what it's doing to your system don't run it.

Unfortunately, the plan is for the Win10 RTM to do the same thing.


Not to disagree, but it remains to be seen. Plans sometimes *do*
change.

On 27/02/2015 4:49 am, Geoff wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 17:48:11 -0800, T wrote:

Hi All,

On the "oh no" front, Son-of Frankenstein (W10 preview) is
now requiring mandatory updates. And, I can't help but notice
that the first update I did required me to reinstall the
entire OS.


[snip]

I wish M$ would reverse themselves on this.


You're running pre-release code. What do you expect? If you think you
can run it as you would Windows 7, think again.

If you don't like what it's doing to your system don't run it.


One of the problems, though, is that we aren't being told what is
experimental for the sake of it, and what is permanent and will form
part of Windows 10. Now, therefore, is the time to start commenting
about silly features like the current update set-up - not when it has
become a permanent feature and it is too late to say anything. That, I
thought, was the whole idea of releasing the preview - so Microsoft can
judge how new "features" will be accepted and act accordingly. In this
case, since it worked fine before, and doesn't now, one would have
thought they could have guessed anyway, and left it alone.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

Karaoke is Japanese for tone-deaf!

On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 16:01:56 +0000, Bob Henson
wrote:

On 27/02/2015 4:49 am, Geoff wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 17:48:11 -0800, T wrote:

Hi All,

On the "oh no" front, Son-of Frankenstein (W10 preview) is
now requiring mandatory updates. And, I can't help but notice
that the first update I did required me to reinstall the
entire OS.


[snip]

I wish M$ would reverse themselves on this.


You're running pre-release code. What do you expect? If you think you
can run it as you would Windows 7, think again.

If you don't like what it's doing to your system don't run it.


One of the problems, though, is that we aren't being told what is
experimental for the sake of it, and what is permanent and will form
part of Windows 10. Now, therefore, is the time to start commenting
about silly features like the current update set-up - not when it has
become a permanent feature and it is too late to say anything. That, I
thought, was the whole idea of releasing the preview - so Microsoft can
judge how new "features" will be accepted and act accordingly. In this
case, since it worked fine before, and doesn't now, one would have
thought they could have guessed anyway, and left it alone.

A fair point. But Microsoft doesn't monitor Usenet for the Windows 10
Preview program, AFAICT, so writing about it here won't be heard by
those who make that decision. Peers here might start a grass-roots
movement but I think per this thread that the comments in the
Microsoft forums would be a better place to get their attention and
their comments on the problem. The chorus would also be larger.

I got the impression that the OP was less concerned with the mandatory
updates being required in the RTM version than he was with it making
him reinstall the entire OS. It sounded a bit whiny to me. I don't
volunteer for test programs unless I am prepared to deal with the
consequences of a catastrophe on my test platform.

On 02/27/2015 09:19 AM, Geoff wrote:
I got the impression that the OP was less concerned with the mandatory
updates being required in the RTM version than he was with it making
him reinstall the entire OS.

Having to reinstall Alpha code is all part of the game.

It sounded a bit whiny to me.

Ha!

I don't
volunteer for test programs unless I am prepared to deal with the
consequences of a catastrophe on my test platform.

Son-of-Frankenstein (SOF) "Preview" (W10) is safely tucked away
in a virtual machine. If things go wrong, I have plenty (four)
images of the previous hard drives. But, it may be better
for my purposed to try to fix what goes wrong -- good training.

The reason I am testing SOF is so I will be familiar with it,
so I can help my customers when they ultimately get the thing
themselves.

My remark was that the first update to SOF preview crashed my machine.
Not a good sign. And, that M$ has a long, nasty history of bad updates,
which is why I posted the link.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/288...meltdowns.html


So if M$ sticks to their guns and does mandatory updates, we all
are in for a very rough ride!

And, by the way, having to see what would happen if I had to
do a reinstall or in place reinstall was something I had to get
out of the way anyway, so it was good training. A silver lining
so to speak. Well, after I was done shaking my head in disgust.

My post had nothing to do with my annoyance over having to reinstall,
it had to do with what we all have in store for up in the future!
Can you imagine what this would do to a company that relied on
Windows platforms to have all their computers go down without warning?

It is bad enough W7 users and currently suffering from an update
taking out Power Point and another update telling them they don't
have Genuine Windows.

I don't know, but I would think that if M$ persists in mandatory
updates for SOF, that it just may be time to move to another
platform. Due to the quality and performance issue involved,
I personally avoid Windows platforms. But my customers don't,
so I will continue to support them.

-T

And, by the way, I think that SOF is "Snappy" compared to
its father (Frankie). M$ might actually pull a rabbit out
of its hat, as it did with W7. Lets hope. Mandatory updates
could kill all that. We may all be in for a very rough ride!

Hopefully, next preview, M$ will have fixed a bunch of bugs.
By the time they RTM, maybe they will be at the Beta code
stage. (M$ also has a bad history of that too.)

On 02/27/2015 07:36 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 20:49:34 -0800, Geoff
wrote:

You're running pre-release code. What do you expect? If you think you
can run it as you would Windows 7, think again.

If you don't like what it's doing to your system don't run it.


A strong ditto!


I need to learn to support my customers.

And, I never had any false expectations of what
happens when I run any Alpha stage code. I have Son-of-
Frankenstein (W10) safely tucked away in a virtual
machine. Can't hurt those around it.

Why in the world would anyone think I was expecting
to use an Alpha stage product for anything other than
testing? Weird. Thought that went without saying.

On 27 Feb 2015, T wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-10:

Why in the world would anyone think I was expecting
to use an Alpha stage product for anything other than
testing? Weird.

Because, as usual, you never state your intentions or methods. You seem
to think we are all mind readers.

On 02/27/2015 10:19 AM, Nil wrote:
On 27 Feb 2015, T wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-10:

Why in the world would anyone think I was expecting
to use an Alpha stage product for anything other than
testing? Weird.

Because, as usual, you never state your intentions or methods. You seem
to think we are all mind readers.


I know what I am thinking, why not you? :-)

On 27/02/2015 5:19 pm, Geoff wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 16:01:56 +0000, Bob Henson
wrote:

On 27/02/2015 4:49 am, Geoff wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 17:48:11 -0800, T wrote:

Hi All,

On the "oh no" front, Son-of Frankenstein (W10 preview) is
now requiring mandatory updates. And, I can't help but notice
that the first update I did required me to reinstall the
entire OS.


[snip]

I wish M$ would reverse themselves on this.


You're running pre-release code. What do you expect? If you think you
can run it as you would Windows 7, think again.

If you don't like what it's doing to your system don't run it.


One of the problems, though, is that we aren't being told what is
experimental for the sake of it, and what is permanent and will form
part of Windows 10. Now, therefore, is the time to start commenting
about silly features like the current update set-up - not when it has
become a permanent feature and it is too late to say anything. That, I
thought, was the whole idea of releasing the preview - so Microsoft can
judge how new "features" will be accepted and act accordingly. In this
case, since it worked fine before, and doesn't now, one would have
thought they could have guessed anyway, and left it alone.

A fair point. But Microsoft doesn't monitor Usenet for the Windows 10
Preview program, AFAICT, so writing about it here won't be heard by
those who make that decision. Peers here might start a grass-roots
movement but I think per this thread that the comments in the
Microsoft forums would be a better place to get their attention and
their comments on the problem. The chorus would also be larger.

Yes, it is pointless in here - but I reported it using the official
feedback app too. I only mentioned it here because it came up in the
conversation. Although they don't reply to them, all the app replies are
read by someone at Microsoft, and apparently they've had a hell of a lot
of them on many and various topics.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

He is not drunk who, from the floor,
Can raise his glass and ask for more.

On 02/27/2015 10:19 AM, Nil wrote:
On 27 Feb 2015, T wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-10:

Why in the world would anyone think I was expecting
to use an Alpha stage product for anything other than
testing? Weird.

Because, as usual, you never state your intentions or methods. You seem
to think we are all mind readers.



Hi Nil,

What is your take on the mandatory updates? You think
M$ will insist or relent?

If the insist, we all get to make a lot more money. Sheesh!

-T