Build 10031

On 2015-03-11 12:22 PM, T wrote:
On 03/11/2015 08:09 AM, Slimer wrote:
On 2015-03-10 9:12 PM, T wrote:
On 03/10/2015 05:13 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 10 Mar 2015 17:07:32 -0700, T wrote:

Windows only exists because M$ won the application wars.
One must have their Quick Books!

A very insightful statement! I have always thought a robust
accounting package
designed for Linux, that could go head-to-head with the piece of crap
Quickbooks
would likely make a huge dent in Windows usage.


GNU Cash is the closest I can find, but it has several
problems:

1) doesn't support payroll
2) doesn't support inventory
3) no one is universally trained on it
4) accountants do not want to learn anything new

So it's essentially as worthless as the rest of open-source?


Hi Slimer,

You would think that someone working on open source would
be at a disadvantage to those working on it for pay. The
tenancy I see is the opposite. The pay stuff lacks innovation,
is full of bugs, doesn't care what the customer thinks, and
will never fix anything. Most of the time, open source kicks
commercial source's ass all over the map. But, not always.
Two wonderful pay exceptions are Qoppa and Cim Cor. (Obviously
not M$ or we would not be suffering with Frankenstein [w8]
and its offspring.)

I reported a bug to Red Hat yesterday. In less than one hour
they had submitted a patch. Then told me I reported it to
the wrong site! Check it out:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1200583

Just try, just dream about trying, to report ANYTHING to M$
or even Apple or Oracle that they actually listen to or ever
and I mean EVER respond to.

But there are exceptions.

By the way, what GNU Cash does do is RACK SOLID. Way,
way better than Quicken. And they have a great forum.

-T

By the way, Qoppa's PDF Studio Pro is worth every penny
of the 125 U$D price tag. I love the thing.

That must be why Linux and its software is still plagued with bugs like
shutting down a computer if a person dares to run a video at full-screen
or losing the clock from the taskbar for no reason whatsoever.

Their work ethic for fixing issues is outstanding.

Meanwhile, I worked as a beta-tester for Windows Vista and 7. All of the
bugs I submitted were fixed and I imagine that I wasn't the only one who
had been heard as 7 turned out to be absolutely stellar.

--
Slimer
OpenMedia, GreenPeace Supporter & SPCA Paw Partner
Encrypt.

- "Export-grade." Right. Not much of Winblows is "export grade"." -
chrisv, demonstrating that he has no idea what "export-grade" means
- "Both you and the POS that calls itself "GreyCloud" have *baselessly*
accused advocates of "lying" about their kill-file usage." - chrisv,
accusing someone who in his killfile of lying about his killfile
- "For some time M$ mandated that IE be the only browser installed, and
that it appear right on the desktop. OEM's had no choice in the matter
- M$ insisted on control of the boot process." - chrisv, lying shamelessly
- "Too bloated for the 386? X ran happily on lesser machines." -
JEDIDIAH, lying shamelessly
- "PnP hardware worked in Linux like it did in WinDOS." - JEDIDIAH,
again lying shamelessly

On 03/11/2015 11:24 AM, GreyCloud wrote:
Now you should go to the Ubuntu and other linux forums and look at all
the complaints about system failures.
Linux isn't any more secure than any other operating system. Linux
sitting at almost 2% of the market just means that they have
security by obscurity.

Hi Grey Cloud,

Don't need to. I am the one that discovered the "cut
a DVD and wipe your hard drive" problem. Red hat fixed
it for me. Every OS has its problems. In the aggregate,
M$'s offerings are real stinkers. But if you can't run
your software on anything else, you are stuck with it.

You are deceiving yourself if you think Linux is not more
secure. It is open for anyone to look at. No back doors.
World wide code checkers. Windows is closed. And M$ doesn't
give a s--- about security. There is a reason why the
International Space Station ripped out Windows.

Here is a good read for you on Linux security:
http://opensource.com/business/13/11...x-policy-guide
Just try and hack an SE Linux system!

And yes M$ gets hacked a lot because they have a lot of
market share. They also get hacked a lot because they
make it easy!

Now if you want a Linux distro where EVERYTHING has been
deliberately done WRONG (I use it for testing), try:
http://sourceforge.jp/projects/sfnet_virtualhacking/
Also know as Damn Vulnerable Linux.

In the end, the OS you use is the one that meets your needs.

-T

On 2015-03-11 12:58 PM, T wrote:
On 03/11/2015 11:37 AM, Slimer wrote:
On 2015-03-11 12:22 PM, T wrote:
On 03/11/2015 08:09 AM, Slimer wrote:
On 2015-03-10 9:12 PM, T wrote:
On 03/10/2015 05:13 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 10 Mar 2015 17:07:32 -0700, T wrote:

Windows only exists because M$ won the application wars.
One must have their Quick Books!

A very insightful statement! I have always thought a robust
accounting package
designed for Linux, that could go head-to-head with the piece of crap
Quickbooks
would likely make a huge dent in Windows usage.


GNU Cash is the closest I can find, but it has several
problems:

1) doesn't support payroll
2) doesn't support inventory
3) no one is universally trained on it
4) accountants do not want to learn anything new

So it's essentially as worthless as the rest of open-source?


Hi Slimer,

You would think that someone working on open source would
be at a disadvantage to those working on it for pay. The
tenancy I see is the opposite. The pay stuff lacks innovation,
is full of bugs, doesn't care what the customer thinks, and
will never fix anything. Most of the time, open source kicks
commercial source's ass all over the map. But, not always.
Two wonderful pay exceptions are Qoppa and Cim Cor. (Obviously
not M$ or we would not be suffering with Frankenstein [w8]
and its offspring.)

I reported a bug to Red Hat yesterday. In less than one hour
they had submitted a patch. Then told me I reported it to
the wrong site! Check it out:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1200583

Just try, just dream about trying, to report ANYTHING to M$
or even Apple or Oracle that they actually listen to or ever
and I mean EVER respond to.

But there are exceptions.

By the way, what GNU Cash does do is RACK SOLID. Way,
way better than Quicken. And they have a great forum.

-T

By the way, Qoppa's PDF Studio Pro is worth every penny
of the 125 U$D price tag. I love the thing.

That must be why Linux and its software is still plagued with bugs like
shutting down a computer if a person dares to run a video at full-screen
or losing the clock from the taskbar for no reason whatsoever.

Hi Slimer,

I have never seen any of those issues. VLC runs videos perfectly.
Never had a shutdown from a video in any screen mode. Never
lost a task bar. Clock always works. Did you report any of
them to their project's bugzillas?

I wouldn't use Linux if someone paid me to do so nowadays. Clearly, I
won't be trying to help the toiletware by submitting one of its major
bugs every day of my life.

W7 stellar? 1/2 as fast as XP and twice as unstable?

It might not be as fast, but it's excellent on all recent hardware.
Instability however, is another issue. Windows 7 is NOT unstable. That
is a blatant lie on your part and makes the rest of what you have to say
worthless.

You have to go to 64 bit on W7 to get back the lost
speed of 32 bit XP. And it harasses you with the UAC,
which M$ has admitted does not good. Plus, you had
to spend $$$$ upgrading perfectly good software to
get it to work on Vista/W7.

Oh dear! You had to upgrade your twenty year-old computer? And I thought
that 486 of mine was going to last forever.

snip garbage

--
Slimer
OpenMedia, GreenPeace Supporter & SPCA Paw Partner
Encrypt.

- "Export-grade." Right. Not much of Winblows is "export grade"." -
chrisv, demonstrating that he has no idea what "export-grade" means
- "Both you and the POS that calls itself "GreyCloud" have *baselessly*
accused advocates of "lying" about their kill-file usage." - chrisv,
accusing someone who in his killfile of lying about his killfile
- "For some time M$ mandated that IE be the only browser installed, and
that it appear right on the desktop. OEM's had no choice in the matter
- M$ insisted on control of the boot process." - chrisv, lying shamelessly
- "Too bloated for the 386? X ran happily on lesser machines." -
JEDIDIAH, lying shamelessly
- "PnP hardware worked in Linux like it did in WinDOS." - JEDIDIAH,
again lying shamelessly

On 2015-03-11 12:58 PM, T wrote:

Changed my mind after reading what other lies you posted.

I especially love the part about it rolling back all my work
a week after I worked on it. (Tip: erase the restore points
and create your own new ones.)

A rollback doesn't touch your documents at all. That is yet another
blatant lie.

Did you miss the articles on W7 where M$ admitted they did
not read testers comments?

By all means, provide a link to a single one and make sure to quote the
explanation as to _why_ they didn't.

W7, when compared to Linux or Apple, is a toad. The only reason
people use it is the lack of applications on other platforms.

Another shameless lie. Mac OS X is by far the _slowest_ operating system
I've ever used. On 4GB of RAM, Windows 7 is excellent. On 4GB of RAM, OS
X is slow as molasses. I get superior performance on a Core i3 with 4GB
RAM with Windows 7 running on NTFS than I could ever get on a Core i5
with 4GB RAM running OS X. Every single time I have to fix my parents'
Mac Mini Core i5, I am ASTOUNDED by how slow it is.

I have Linux server that run without a reboot for YEARS.

A SERVER? Who the **** cares about your stupid server's uptime? Linux
idiots have long boasted about how long they can go without restarting
their computer as if everyone on the planet needed for their computer to
run 24/7/365. It's such a ridiculous thing to consider when just about
everyone CHOOSES to shut down every day even though they don't have to.

I have to set up nightly reboot on Windows servers their
quality is so bad.

My brother-in-law handles Windows servers and he never restarts them.
You're lying yet again.

When I come across a Windows machine
that is acting weird, the first thing I ask is when was
the last time you rebooted? Then I tell them they should
shutdown at night so as to get their daily required reboot.
There is zero need for that in Apple or Linux.

Complete bull****. My parents' Mac Mini, under my own recommendation,
was never shut down. I believed bull**** like yours for so long that I
actually thought OS X could perform well for weeks or months without
shutting down. Meanwhile, it becomes disgusting pig on day 2. Before
that, I had a G5 iMac, G4 Powerbook and G3 iBook also slowed to a crawl
if not shut down every day. My Windows 8 laptop is never shut down and
meanwhile remains fast at all times. It's not because I'm a magician
either.

Frankenstein (w8) is really bad on the reboot issue as
it doesn't shutdown when it says shutdown (it suspends),
so you do get a real reboot every night. I can't
tell you how many Frankenstein computers I have fixed
by pulling the power plug (then configuring it to
actually shutdown). W7 is better for this because
it actually shuts down.

That was true for Windows 8. A shutdown option was indeed available but
you needed to configure it in. However, everyone is running 8.1 since a
while now and your statement is no longer correct. Like everything else
you said, it's complete bull****.

Just an aside, did you know that W7 and XP get broke into
at a statistical dead heat? W7 is no more "secure" than
W7, despite what M$'s marketing weasels say:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke...k-to-viruses-t

Every Windows OS can be infected if stupid users are at the helm. Which
is more impacted and which is less is inconsequential.

--
Slimer
OpenMedia, GreenPeace Supporter & SPCA Paw Partner
Encrypt.

- "Export-grade." Right. Not much of Winblows is "export grade"." -
chrisv, demonstrating that he has no idea what "export-grade" means
- "Both you and the POS that calls itself "GreyCloud" have *baselessly*
accused advocates of "lying" about their kill-file usage." - chrisv,
accusing someone who in his killfile of lying about his killfile
- "For some time M$ mandated that IE be the only browser installed, and
that it appear right on the desktop. OEM's had no choice in the matter
- M$ insisted on control of the boot process." - chrisv, lying shamelessly
- "Too bloated for the 386? X ran happily on lesser machines." -
JEDIDIAH, lying shamelessly
- "PnP hardware worked in Linux like it did in WinDOS." - JEDIDIAH,
again lying shamelessly

Slimer wrote:

On 2015-03-11 4:49 PM, GreyCloud wrote:

Complete bull****. My parents' Mac Mini, under my own recommendation,
was never shut down. I believed bull**** like yours for so long that I
actually thought OS X could perform well for weeks or months without
shutting down. Meanwhile, it becomes disgusting pig on day 2. Before
that, I had a G5 iMac, G4 Powerbook and G3 iBook also slowed to a crawl
if not shut down every day. My Windows 8 laptop is never shut down and
meanwhile remains fast at all times. It's not because I'm a magician
either.

It is just common sense to shutdown a home computer at the end of the
day. Saves on the electric bill some.
Even in the vms newsgroup they prefer admins to at least shutdown at a
convenient
time once a month. You never know what internal settings have changed
over a long
period of time and then latter regret not shutting down periodically.

At a time when electricity bills are only rising, what's the point of
leaving your computer on just to impress a few insignificant geeks with
your uptime? Not _ONE_ Windows user will complain of the need to shut
down at the end of the day or week. You _can_ just put it to sleep and
keep your beloved up-time anyway and frankly, Windows 7/8 is much better
with it than 9x was, but it's so pointless that it's ridiculous to even
consider.

Every Windows OS can be infected if stupid users are at the helm. Which
is more impacted and which is less is inconsequential.

The biggest problem these days are phishing attempts.

Exactly. Whether the person is using Windows or Linux, they will not be
protected from a phishing attempt. Some browser and e-mail providers
might offer a small level of resistance to these kinds of attacks, but
it's not at all dependent on the operating system.

By the way, you might want to consider Thunderbird rather than Windows
Live Mail for your newsgroup needs. The quoting must be getting on your
nerves.


Very much. I've got RedHat running under VMWare, and Knode fits the bill
for just reading and responding in newsgroups. It does a fine job.
Watching DVDs (commercial ones that people buy) won't run. I'd have to pay
for VMWare Workstation to get that to run it seems, and has something to do
with DCMA stuff. I've got VMWare Fusion running on the old mac and DVDs
play back just fine for OpenSuse. I believe that it is blocked until you
pay the fees for any Virtual Machine that I've tried. Even Oracles Virtual
Box won't run them because it is free, along with the fact that Oracle won't
cross the DCMA line either unless they can find a way for the user to pay.

On 2015-03-11 4:49 PM, GreyCloud wrote:

Complete bull****. My parents' Mac Mini, under my own recommendation,
was never shut down. I believed bull**** like yours for so long that I
actually thought OS X could perform well for weeks or months without
shutting down. Meanwhile, it becomes disgusting pig on day 2. Before
that, I had a G5 iMac, G4 Powerbook and G3 iBook also slowed to a crawl
if not shut down every day. My Windows 8 laptop is never shut down and
meanwhile remains fast at all times. It's not because I'm a magician
either.

It is just common sense to shutdown a home computer at the end of the day.
Saves on the electric bill some.
Even in the vms newsgroup they prefer admins to at least shutdown at a
convenient
time once a month. You never know what internal settings have changed
over a long
period of time and then latter regret not shutting down periodically.

At a time when electricity bills are only rising, what's the point of
leaving your computer on just to impress a few insignificant geeks with
your uptime? Not _ONE_ Windows user will complain of the need to shut
down at the end of the day or week. You _can_ just put it to sleep and
keep your beloved up-time anyway and frankly, Windows 7/8 is much better
with it than 9x was, but it's so pointless that it's ridiculous to even
consider.

Every Windows OS can be infected if stupid users are at the helm. Which
is more impacted and which is less is inconsequential.

The biggest problem these days are phishing attempts.

Exactly. Whether the person is using Windows or Linux, they will not be
protected from a phishing attempt. Some browser and e-mail providers
might offer a small level of resistance to these kinds of attacks, but
it's not at all dependent on the operating system.

By the way, you might want to consider Thunderbird rather than Windows
Live Mail for your newsgroup needs. The quoting must be getting on your
nerves.

--
Slimer
OpenMedia, GreenPeace Supporter & SPCA Paw Partner
Encrypt.

- "Export-grade." Right. Not much of Winblows is "export grade"." -
chrisv, demonstrating that he has no idea what "export-grade" means
- "Both you and the POS that calls itself "GreyCloud" have *baselessly*
accused advocates of "lying" about their kill-file usage." - chrisv,
accusing someone who in his killfile of lying about his killfile
- "For some time M$ mandated that IE be the only browser installed, and
that it appear right on the desktop. OEM's had no choice in the matter
- M$ insisted on control of the boot process." - chrisv, lying shamelessly
- "Too bloated for the 386? X ran happily on lesser machines." -
JEDIDIAH, lying shamelessly
- "PnP hardware worked in Linux like it did in WinDOS." - JEDIDIAH,
again lying shamelessly

Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:43:56 -0600, "GreyCloud" wrote:

You are deceiving yourself if you think Linux is not more
secure. It is open for anyone to look at. No back doors.
World wide code checkers. Windows is closed. And M$ doesn't
give a s--- about security. There is a reason why the
International Space Station ripped out Windows.

The US Navy has converted all fleet ballistic missile and fast attack subs
to
run ALL systems on Linux. This was done for security and stability
reasons.

Of course, but it isn't your run of the mill distro either.
It's been customized to suit their own needs. As NSA told the other vendors
that if you want your operating system secure, then get rid of your browser
and email program. OTW, get off the internet for security.
I doubt that these FBM systems or fast attack subs are hooked up to the
internet. It's the survivability of the os that counts in this instance and
only costs the Navy the cost of modifying it to their needs, which is why
super-computer vendors prefer linux... it save them a bundle of money not
having to reinvent the wheel. It is the desktop environment that really
stinks.

On 2015-03-11 5:57 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
Slimer wrote:

On 2015-03-11 4:49 PM, GreyCloud wrote:

Complete bull****. My parents' Mac Mini, under my own recommendation,
was never shut down. I believed bull**** like yours for so long that I
actually thought OS X could perform well for weeks or months without
shutting down. Meanwhile, it becomes disgusting pig on day 2. Before
that, I had a G5 iMac, G4 Powerbook and G3 iBook also slowed to a crawl
if not shut down every day. My Windows 8 laptop is never shut down and
meanwhile remains fast at all times. It's not because I'm a magician
either.

It is just common sense to shutdown a home computer at the end of the
day. Saves on the electric bill some.
Even in the vms newsgroup they prefer admins to at least shutdown at a
convenient
time once a month. You never know what internal settings have changed
over a long
period of time and then latter regret not shutting down periodically.

At a time when electricity bills are only rising, what's the point of
leaving your computer on just to impress a few insignificant geeks with
your uptime? Not _ONE_ Windows user will complain of the need to shut
down at the end of the day or week. You _can_ just put it to sleep and
keep your beloved up-time anyway and frankly, Windows 7/8 is much better
with it than 9x was, but it's so pointless that it's ridiculous to even
consider.

Every Windows OS can be infected if stupid users are at the helm. Which
is more impacted and which is less is inconsequential.

The biggest problem these days are phishing attempts.

Exactly. Whether the person is using Windows or Linux, they will not be
protected from a phishing attempt. Some browser and e-mail providers
might offer a small level of resistance to these kinds of attacks, but
it's not at all dependent on the operating system.

By the way, you might want to consider Thunderbird rather than Windows
Live Mail for your newsgroup needs. The quoting must be getting on your
nerves.


Very much. I've got RedHat running under VMWare, and Knode fits the bill
for just reading and responding in newsgroups. It does a fine job.
Watching DVDs (commercial ones that people buy) won't run. I'd have to pay
for VMWare Workstation to get that to run it seems, and has something to do
with DCMA stuff. I've got VMWare Fusion running on the old mac and DVDs
play back just fine for OpenSuse. I believe that it is blocked until you
pay the fees for any Virtual Machine that I've tried. Even Oracles Virtual
Box won't run them because it is free, along with the fact that Oracle won't
cross the DCMA line either unless they can find a way for the user to pay.

But why aren't you using Thunderbird for newsgroups?

--
Slimer
OpenMedia, GreenPeace Supporter & SPCA Paw Partner
Encrypt.

- "Export-grade." Right. Not much of Winblows is "export grade"." -
chrisv, demonstrating that he has no idea what "export-grade" means
- "Both you and the POS that calls itself "GreyCloud" have *baselessly*
accused advocates of "lying" about their kill-file usage." - chrisv,
accusing someone who in his killfile of lying about his killfile
- "For some time M$ mandated that IE be the only browser installed, and
that it appear right on the desktop. OEM's had no choice in the matter
- M$ insisted on control of the boot process." - chrisv, lying shamelessly
- "Too bloated for the 386? X ran happily on lesser machines." -
JEDIDIAH, lying shamelessly
- "PnP hardware worked in Linux like it did in WinDOS." - JEDIDIAH,
again lying shamelessly

On 2015-03-11 6:02 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:43:56 -0600, "GreyCloud" wrote:

You are deceiving yourself if you think Linux is not more
secure. It is open for anyone to look at. No back doors.
World wide code checkers. Windows is closed. And M$ doesn't
give a s--- about security. There is a reason why the
International Space Station ripped out Windows.

The US Navy has converted all fleet ballistic missile and fast attack subs
to
run ALL systems on Linux. This was done for security and stability
reasons.

Of course, but it isn't your run of the mill distro either.
It's been customized to suit their own needs. As NSA told the other vendors
that if you want your operating system secure, then get rid of your browser
and email program. OTW, get off the internet for security.
I doubt that these FBM systems or fast attack subs are hooked up to the
internet. It's the survivability of the os that counts in this instance and
only costs the Navy the cost of modifying it to their needs, which is why
super-computer vendors prefer linux... it save them a bundle of money not
having to reinvent the wheel. It is the desktop environment that really
stinks.

"Stinks" is putting it lightly. It's worse than anything I've run in the
90s and I ran the first editions of both Windows 95 and 98 as well as
Windows 3.1.

--
Slimer
OpenMedia, GreenPeace Supporter & SPCA Paw Partner
Encrypt.

- "Export-grade." Right. Not much of Winblows is "export grade"." -
chrisv, demonstrating that he has no idea what "export-grade" means
- "Both you and the POS that calls itself "GreyCloud" have *baselessly*
accused advocates of "lying" about their kill-file usage." - chrisv,
accusing someone who in his killfile of lying about his killfile
- "For some time M$ mandated that IE be the only browser installed, and
that it appear right on the desktop. OEM's had no choice in the matter
- M$ insisted on control of the boot process." - chrisv, lying shamelessly
- "Too bloated for the 386? X ran happily on lesser machines." -
JEDIDIAH, lying shamelessly
- "PnP hardware worked in Linux like it did in WinDOS." - JEDIDIAH,
again lying shamelessly

Slimer wrote:

On 2015-03-11 5:57 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
Slimer wrote:

On 2015-03-11 4:49 PM, GreyCloud wrote:

Complete bull****. My parents' Mac Mini, under my own recommendation,
was never shut down. I believed bull**** like yours for so long that I
actually thought OS X could perform well for weeks or months without
shutting down. Meanwhile, it becomes disgusting pig on day 2. Before
that, I had a G5 iMac, G4 Powerbook and G3 iBook also slowed to a
crawl
if not shut down every day. My Windows 8 laptop is never shut down
and meanwhile remains fast at all times. It's not because I'm a
magician either.

It is just common sense to shutdown a home computer at the end of the
day. Saves on the electric bill some.
Even in the vms newsgroup they prefer admins to at least shutdown at a
convenient
time once a month. You never know what internal settings have changed
over a long
period of time and then latter regret not shutting down periodically.

At a time when electricity bills are only rising, what's the point of
leaving your computer on just to impress a few insignificant geeks with
your uptime? Not _ONE_ Windows user will complain of the need to shut
down at the end of the day or week. You _can_ just put it to sleep and
keep your beloved up-time anyway and frankly, Windows 7/8 is much better
with it than 9x was, but it's so pointless that it's ridiculous to even
consider.

Every Windows OS can be infected if stupid users are at the helm.
Which is more impacted and which is less is inconsequential.

The biggest problem these days are phishing attempts.

Exactly. Whether the person is using Windows or Linux, they will not be
protected from a phishing attempt. Some browser and e-mail providers
might offer a small level of resistance to these kinds of attacks, but
it's not at all dependent on the operating system.

By the way, you might want to consider Thunderbird rather than Windows
Live Mail for your newsgroup needs. The quoting must be getting on your
nerves.


Very much. I've got RedHat running under VMWare, and Knode fits the bill
for just reading and responding in newsgroups. It does a fine job.
Watching DVDs (commercial ones that people buy) won't run. I'd have to
pay for VMWare Workstation to get that to run it seems, and has something
to do
with DCMA stuff. I've got VMWare Fusion running on the old mac and DVDs
play back just fine for OpenSuse. I believe that it is blocked until you
pay the fees for any Virtual Machine that I've tried. Even Oracles
Virtual Box won't run them because it is free, along with the fact that
Oracle won't cross the DCMA line either unless they can find a way for
the user to pay.

But why aren't you using Thunderbird for newsgroups?


Because I already have a proven newsreader under RedHat. I installed it
last year with contract, and under VMWare player. Only thing it won't do is
play DVDs, but then I just use windows for that. So I just use this one
under RedHat.

Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 17:02:52 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:43:56 -0600, "GreyCloud"
wrote:

You are deceiving yourself if you think Linux is not more
secure. It is open for anyone to look at. No back doors.
World wide code checkers. Windows is closed. And M$ doesn't
give a s--- about security. There is a reason why the
International Space Station ripped out Windows.

The US Navy has converted all fleet ballistic missile and fast attack
subs to
run ALL systems on Linux. This was done for security and stability
reasons.

Of course, but it isn't your run of the mill distro either.
It's been customized to suit their own needs. As NSA told the other
vendors that if you want your operating system secure, then get rid of
your browser
and email program. OTW, get off the internet for security.
I doubt that these FBM systems or fast attack subs are hooked up to the
internet. It's the survivability of the os that counts in this instance
and only costs the Navy the cost of modifying it to their needs, which is
why super-computer vendors prefer linux... it save them a bundle of money
not
having to reinvent the wheel. It is the desktop environment that really
stinks.


Rather than engaging in speculation, here is an article about the IT
infrastructure onboard one of the Navy's newest warships, the USS Zumwalt.

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...-navys-newest-
warship-is-powered-by-linux/

IMHO, Linux is in fact a ready-for-prime-time player. We are rapidly
migrating
my business over to Linux and away from Windows. Numerous businesses and
government agencies have done this and many more are making preparations
to do so.

Linux by itself is pretty good. The X11 environment is another issue tho.
It is slow to begin with, but good with networking. It is the distro makers
that make the waters very muddy and the gui on each new release introduces
new bugs or that they didn't think to test it out thoroughly. RedHat that
I've got is one of the few that seems to be working correctly for most
things. DOD will modify linux for their own needs and won't even be like
what the regular vendors give. Besides, the fact that linux is free, makes
it easier to fast-track a new development on these warships and lowers the
cost tremendously. I'd have to see how the system is set up to see what
changes were made.

For business use, even the small VS SQL contract I have with one business,
is asking for MS style services, so I write for that using Visual Studio.
I couldn't even budge him towards OS X or Linux. He's never heard of linux,
but knows that OS X isn't business oriented for his needs. It would have a
lot easier to use MySql desktop environment, but he never heard of that one
either. So it seems to appear an issue of trust on most businessmens
agenda.

On 2015-03-12 12:41 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 17:02:52 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:43:56 -0600, "GreyCloud"
wrote:

You are deceiving yourself if you think Linux is not more
secure. It is open for anyone to look at. No back doors.
World wide code checkers. Windows is closed. And M$ doesn't
give a s--- about security. There is a reason why the
International Space Station ripped out Windows.

The US Navy has converted all fleet ballistic missile and fast attack
subs to
run ALL systems on Linux. This was done for security and stability
reasons.

Of course, but it isn't your run of the mill distro either.
It's been customized to suit their own needs. As NSA told the other
vendors that if you want your operating system secure, then get rid of
your browser
and email program. OTW, get off the internet for security.
I doubt that these FBM systems or fast attack subs are hooked up to the
internet. It's the survivability of the os that counts in this instance
and only costs the Navy the cost of modifying it to their needs, which is
why super-computer vendors prefer linux... it save them a bundle of money
not
having to reinvent the wheel. It is the desktop environment that really
stinks.


Rather than engaging in speculation, here is an article about the IT
infrastructure onboard one of the Navy's newest warships, the USS Zumwalt.

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...-navys-newest-
warship-is-powered-by-linux/

IMHO, Linux is in fact a ready-for-prime-time player. We are rapidly
migrating
my business over to Linux and away from Windows. Numerous businesses and
government agencies have done this and many more are making preparations
to do so.

Linux by itself is pretty good. The X11 environment is another issue tho.
It is slow to begin with, but good with networking. It is the distro makers
that make the waters very muddy and the gui on each new release introduces
new bugs or that they didn't think to test it out thoroughly. RedHat that
I've got is one of the few that seems to be working correctly for most
things. DOD will modify linux for their own needs and won't even be like
what the regular vendors give. Besides, the fact that linux is free, makes
it easier to fast-track a new development on these warships and lowers the
cost tremendously. I'd have to see how the system is set up to see what
changes were made.

For business use, even the small VS SQL contract I have with one business,
is asking for MS style services, so I write for that using Visual Studio.
I couldn't even budge him towards OS X or Linux. He's never heard of linux,
but knows that OS X isn't business oriented for his needs. It would have a
lot easier to use MySql desktop environment, but he never heard of that one
either. So it seems to appear an issue of trust on most businessmens
agenda.

If Fedora and Red Hat indeed share code and whatever Red Hat version
you're using is based on 20 or 21, then I suggest that there's a bug
with Mozilla software on certain configurations. On my older i3, both
Thunderbird and Firefox took a good ten to fourteen seconds to load
whereas Windows and any other distribution didn't. This is on a clean
install. Nobody could pinpoint what the problem was and it seemed to
affect a good number of users.

--
Slimer
OpenMedia, GreenPeace Supporter & SPCA Paw Partner
Encrypt.

- "Export-grade." Right. Not much of Winblows is "export grade"." -
chrisv, demonstrating that he has no idea what "export-grade" means
- "Both you and the POS that calls itself "GreyCloud" have *baselessly*
accused advocates of "lying" about their kill-file usage." - chrisv,
accusing someone who in his killfile of lying about his killfile
- "For some time M$ mandated that IE be the only browser installed, and
that it appear right on the desktop. OEM's had no choice in the matter
- M$ insisted on control of the boot process." - chrisv, lying shamelessly
- "Too bloated for the 386? X ran happily on lesser machines." -
JEDIDIAH, lying shamelessly
- "PnP hardware worked in Linux like it did in WinDOS." - JEDIDIAH,
again lying shamelessly
- "Are you still a homophobe or have you finally come out of the
closet?" - Donald Miller, too dumb to know the difference between a
homophobe and a homosexual.
- "Idiot. That (referring to software Creative Labs provided with its
Sound Blaster line) was needed because the MSDOS driver was too dumb to
figure out the parameters on its own. That has absolutely nothing to do
with "software which essentually configured the card"" - Peter Köhlmann,
trying in vain to change the meaning of the word "configure."

On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:37:45 -0700, T wrote:

You are deceiving yourself if you think Linux is not more
secure. It is open for anyone to look at. No back doors.
World wide code checkers.

I've heard that repeated many times over the years, and yet there have been
several openSSL issues that have recently come to light, one or more of
which is said to have existed for over a decade. Just because people *can*
check the source doesn't necessarily mean that anyone does.

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:37:45 -0700, T wrote:

You are deceiving yourself if you think Linux is not more
secure. It is open for anyone to look at. No back doors.
World wide code checkers.

I've heard that repeated many times over the years, and yet there have been
several openSSL issues that have recently come to light, one or more of
which is said to have existed for over a decade. Just because people *can*
check the source doesn't necessarily mean that anyone does.


Linux isn't bulletproof but it's more secure than Windows. If only it
had a decent office suite. Alas, maybe some day. A lot of that I think
has to do with Linux users being more tech savvy as a whole than Windows
users as most users are compromised by being tricked into either
clicking on something they shouldn't or by being persuaded to part with
their money or both.

--
A

On 03/12/2015 12:11 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:37:45 -0700, T wrote:

You are deceiving yourself if you think Linux is not more
secure. It is open for anyone to look at. No back doors.
World wide code checkers.

I've heard that repeated many times over the years, and yet there have been
several openSSL issues that have recently come to light, one or more of
which is said to have existed for over a decade. Just because people *can*
check the source doesn't necessarily mean that anyone does.


Hi Char,

Of course. And when they are identified, they are fixed
immediately. That is one of the reasons why Linux is
far more secure (in this instance, a program running on Linux).

You are completely missing the point. The Open SSL issues and
the way they were handled is a triumph of how the system works.

Remember the Blaster virus? The vulnerability was know
and published for years. The jerk that wrote the Blaster
virus simply looked up what vulnerabilities had not been
patched and wrote a virus for it. The scoundrels
at M$ didn't patch it until someone wrote a virus
for it!

There is a *HUGE* difference in the way these things
handled by open source and by M$. M$ would have
ignored it until they were embarrassed by it, as in the
blaster virus.

By the way, on Mozilla's or Red Hat's bugzilla, if you
check of "security", the attention you get can only be
described as OH HOLY CRAP!!! (I just put a bug in on how
to seize Linux and they figured out it was a security
bug on their own and oh did they respond!)

In Linux, if you fix a bug and write a "respectful"
well documents bug report (the the appropriate Bugzilla),
you get it fixed.

In M$ world, who do you even report it to? "How many
copies did you buy?"

And yes, there are exceptions.

-T