Asked M$ to post ISO when they post fast track

On 04/16/2015 08:24 PM, Paul wrote:
T wrote:
On 04/16/2015 01:28 AM, . . .winston wrote:
T wrote:
Hi All,

I asked M$ to post their ISOs the same time they post their fast
tracks:

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...ew2014Feedback




What do you suppose my chances are of them paying attention?
0.0000000001%?

-T

You might have had a marginal chance of someone noticing the request
before stating the following:
qp
And they are not letting me use the tool unless I have one of their
idiot account.
/qp

Nicely stated, no?

MSFT makes the rules for the Feedback program. Not choosing to accept
those requirements to provide feedback is akin to saying 'ignore my
input'

If M$ paid any attention, and I mean any attention at all, Windows 8
would have never happened. So, I do feel stupid even wasting my time
providing "feedback".

And if they really wanted anyone's feedback, they wouldn't require you
to sign up for an "account". This is all about marketing you. Not
about feedback.

Have you ever worked in a development environment ?

How much time do you think is set aside in a day to
read "social.technet.microsoft.com" ?

Probably less time than is set aside to read the
comic strip in the local daily newspaper.

The only person who might consider your opinion:

1) A social scientist outside the development organization.
2) Tasked to track customer opinion.
3) And make PowerPoint slides with neat little histograms
on them.
4) That nobody reads.

Paul

Yes I have and you have a point.

On 04/16/2015 10:54 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
IMHO, it has too many grammar mistakes to be considered "nicely stated"

Well, you did manage to keep the condescending to a mild roar. And
you did say in your "humble opinion". So, maybe you are turning a new
leaf?

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 11:30:31 -0700, T wrote:

On 04/16/2015 10:39 AM, mechanic wrote:
On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 10:02:43 -0700, T wrote:

And if they really wanted anyone's feedback, they wouldn't require
you to sign up for an "account".

Why not? It would be an indication that the user was committed to
MSFT products and not some DLU troll.

The only purpose is to market you.

Earlier you said "And if they really wanted anyone's feedback..." so
which is it?

If you think M$ listens to your feedback, you are deluded. Back
when "Frankenstein the Elder" (w8) was previewing, the roar was
deafening. M$ didn't care.

8.1 and then 10 deal with many of the gripes.

And I might posit that the only reason behind Frankenstein and Sons
is the Microsoft Store. Apple is eating M$'s lunch with the
Apple Store.

You are thinking of iTunes? The Apple Store is just a shopfront.

On 04/17/2015 12:35 PM, mechanic wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 11:30:31 -0700, T wrote:

On 04/16/2015 10:39 AM, mechanic wrote:
On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 10:02:43 -0700, T wrote:

And if they really wanted anyone's feedback, they wouldn't require
you to sign up for an "account".

Why not? It would be an indication that the user was committed to
MSFT products and not some DLU troll.

The only purpose is to market you.

Earlier you said "And if they really wanted anyone's feedback..." so
which is it?

They don't want my feed back or they would just ask for it and not
use it to market me.

If you think M$ listens to your feedback, you are deluded. Back
when "Frankenstein the Elder" (w8) was previewing, the roar was
deafening. M$ didn't care.

8.1 and then 10 deal with many of the gripes.

They fix things around the edges, but they refuse to correct
the elephant in the living room. To fix Frankenstein and
Sons, you would have to implement Windows Red:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/261...microsoft.html

And if M$ did not listen to Info World, what in the world
makes you think they will listen to me?


And I might posit that the only reason behind Frankenstein and Sons
is the Microsoft Store. Apple is eating M$'s lunch with the
Apple Store.

You are thinking of iTunes? The Apple Store is just a shopfront.

iTunes works through the Apple Store. The Apple Store is a
store front that is extremely easy to purchase apps and
music etc. for your iPhone and iPad. And unlike the Windows
Store, it works rather well. Well, except that you get your
credit card hacked every so often.

T wrote:
On 04/16/2015 03:14 PM, . . .winston wrote:
T wrote:
On 04/16/2015 01:28 AM, . . .winston wrote:
T wrote:
Hi All,

I asked M$ to post their ISOs the same time they post their fast
tracks:

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...ew2014Feedback






What do you suppose my chances are of them paying attention?
0.0000000001%?

-T

You might have had a marginal chance of someone noticing the request
before stating the following:
qp
And they are not letting me use the tool unless I have one of their
idiot account.
/qp

Nicely stated, no?

MSFT makes the rules for the Feedback program. Not choosing to accept
those requirements to provide feedback is akin to saying 'ignore my
input'

If M$ paid any attention, and I mean any attention at all, Windows 8
would have never happened. So, I do feel stupid even wasting my time
providing "feedback".

And if they really wanted anyone's feedback, they wouldn't require you
to sign up for an "account". This is all about marketing you. Not
about feedback.

No, it's about soliciting feedback from Win10P users who are willing to
follow the guidelines MSFT determines appropriate.

i.e. If you disagree with those guidelines you by default are agreeing
to be ignored including any potential feedback and any complaints about
'paying any attention [at all]'.


They don't pay any attention anyway. They just want you signed up
so they can market you.

You will notice that the name of the forum is "WinPreview2014Feedback".
And, they themselves admit they don't take "feedback" on their
"feedback" forum.

I feel stupid even attempting it.

I have to tell myself that when Frankenstein the Elder (w8) was
previewing, that the feedback anger was deafening. M$ ignored
all of it. I even remember Info World running an article
where they stated that yup, M$ just deletes their feedback.

I was hoping that m$ had turned a new leaf on
social.technet.microsoft.com = "WinPreview2014Feedback", but
they did not.

I should have known better.

If one has never submitted feedback then any perception on what is
submitted and paid attention is obviously and simply conjecture.

Quite a few pieces of feedback end up in the circular file and
rightfully so....not all feedback warrants modification of an existing
business plan that often necessitates prioritizing resources and
direction. Compared to the past system (when the beta feedback mode of
voting on topics was in place) imo the current is better since the past
was always skewed by vote solicitation (vote by popularity rather than
by actual voter validation).


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

Paul wrote:
T wrote:
On 04/16/2015 01:28 AM, . . .winston wrote:
T wrote:
Hi All,

I asked M$ to post their ISOs the same time they post their fast
tracks:

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...ew2014Feedback




What do you suppose my chances are of them paying attention?
0.0000000001%?

-T

You might have had a marginal chance of someone noticing the request
before stating the following:
qp
And they are not letting me use the tool unless I have one of their
idiot account.
/qp

Nicely stated, no?

MSFT makes the rules for the Feedback program. Not choosing to accept
those requirements to provide feedback is akin to saying 'ignore my
input'

If M$ paid any attention, and I mean any attention at all, Windows 8
would have never happened. So, I do feel stupid even wasting my time
providing "feedback".

And if they really wanted anyone's feedback, they wouldn't require you
to sign up for an "account". This is all about marketing you. Not
about feedback.

Have you ever worked in a development environment ?

How much time do you think is set aside in a day to
read "social.technet.microsoft.com" ?

Probably less time than is set aside to read the
comic strip in the local daily newspaper.

The only person who might consider your opinion:

1) A social scientist outside the development organization.
2) Tasked to track customer opinion.
3) And make PowerPoint slides with neat little histograms
on them.
4) That nobody reads.

Paul

In MSFT, Product Management is Engineering and Development, Program
Management is marketing...thus #1 would be categorized by the latter
with the former acting on prioritized items categorized and agreed upon
by decision makers responsible for assigning resources and managing
personnel and budget within a predetermined upper management approved
business plan.



--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

On 04/18/2015 12:39 AM, . . .winston wrote:
T wrote:
On 04/16/2015 03:14 PM, . . .winston wrote:
T wrote:
On 04/16/2015 01:28 AM, . . .winston wrote:
T wrote:
Hi All,

I asked M$ to post their ISOs the same time they post their fast
tracks:

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...ew2014Feedback







What do you suppose my chances are of them paying attention?
0.0000000001%?

-T

You might have had a marginal chance of someone noticing the request
before stating the following:
qp
And they are not letting me use the tool unless I have one of their
idiot account.
/qp

Nicely stated, no?

MSFT makes the rules for the Feedback program. Not choosing to accept
those requirements to provide feedback is akin to saying 'ignore my
input'

If M$ paid any attention, and I mean any attention at all, Windows 8
would have never happened. So, I do feel stupid even wasting my time
providing "feedback".

And if they really wanted anyone's feedback, they wouldn't require you
to sign up for an "account". This is all about marketing you. Not
about feedback.

No, it's about soliciting feedback from Win10P users who are willing to
follow the guidelines MSFT determines appropriate.

i.e. If you disagree with those guidelines you by default are agreeing
to be ignored including any potential feedback and any complaints about
'paying any attention [at all]'.


They don't pay any attention anyway. They just want you signed up
so they can market you.

You will notice that the name of the forum is "WinPreview2014Feedback".
And, they themselves admit they don't take "feedback" on their
"feedback" forum.

I feel stupid even attempting it.

I have to tell myself that when Frankenstein the Elder (w8) was
previewing, that the feedback anger was deafening. M$ ignored
all of it. I even remember Info World running an article
where they stated that yup, M$ just deletes their feedback.

I was hoping that m$ had turned a new leaf on
social.technet.microsoft.com = "WinPreview2014Feedback", but
they did not.

I should have known better.

If one has never submitted feedback then any perception on what is
submitted and paid attention is obviously and simply conjecture.

Quite a few pieces of feedback end up in the circular file and
rightfully so....not all feedback warrants modification of an existing
business plan that often necessitates prioritizing resources and
direction. Compared to the past system (when the beta feedback mode of
voting on topics was in place) imo the current is better since the past
was always skewed by vote solicitation (vote by popularity rather than
by actual voter validation).



Hi Winston,

I agree.

I never would expect every piece of feedback to be taken. I am
quite active on the Open Source community and submit tons of
bug reports and RFE's (request for enhancements). I would say
about 95% of the bugs I submit get fixed. (Red Hat, Mozilla and
Libreoffice are my heroes; Openoffice, not so much.) And about
50% of the RFE's get taken seriously. The trick is in writing
a well documented and respectful letter.

My big beef with M$ is that they have no reasonable reporting
mechanism in place. What I see M$ doing is only superficial.
If they really wanted to get some decent feedback -- bugs
and RFE's -- they would put a Bugzilla tracker up (like
Red Hat does) and start taking their customers seriously.
But they do not and I do not think that culture will ever
change.

I feel stupid even trying to get some feedback to them,
as I really don't think they have any intention whatsoever
of even reading it. They just want my name and address
so they can market me. If M$ paid any attention whatsoever,
we would not have to suffer with Frankenstein and Sons
(w8 & w10).

And I have yet to be ever marketed from any of the
bug reporter (Bugzilla, etc.) forums that I am on.

As I tell my customers: M$ is not a software company.
They are a marketing firm with a considerable software
publishing capacity. They will go down in the history
of business as the capitalists that managed to sell
DEFECTIVE ice makers to Eskimos. Quality is job
324,312, right next to security at job 324,513.
Marketing is job #1.

If M$ really gave a damn about quality, they would have
a Bugzilla (or similar) in place.

I think you are giving M$ too much credit. I know you
like the guys, so I do apologize. This must not have
been easy for you to read.

-T

On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 16:18:42 -0700, T wrote:

If M$ really gave a damn about quality, they would have
a Bugzilla (or similar) in place.

https://connect.microsoft.com/

Filtering input on many products, presumably to avoid being swamped
by ill-informed illiterates. Present company excepted, of course.

On 04/19/2015 04:23 AM, mechanic wrote:
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 16:18:42 -0700, T wrote:

If M$ really gave a damn about quality, they would have
a Bugzilla (or similar) in place.

https://connect.microsoft.com/

Filtering input on many products, presumably to avoid being swamped
by ill-informed illiterates. Present company excepted, of course.


Hi Mechanic,

Do you have any experience with them actually paying any attention
to what is posted on this? Have you ever seen a developer actually
write back to a posters on this forum? Red Hat, Mozilla, Libre
Office all do. M$ just doesn't give a damn. It is not their
business model. If they did, we would not all be suffering with
Frankenstein and Sons (w8 and w10).

Thank you for the link.

-T

On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 16:18:42 -0700, T wrote:

I never would expect every piece of feedback to be taken. I am
quite active on the Open Source community and submit tons of
bug reports and RFE's (request for enhancements). I would say
about 95% of the bugs I submit get fixed. (Red Hat, Mozilla and
Libreoffice are my heroes; Openoffice, not so much.) And about
50% of the RFE's get taken seriously. The trick is in writing
a well documented and respectful letter.

Oh, the irony. Would such a letter include things like "M$", "idiot
account", or "Frankenstein"? I think it would need to before it could be
taken seriously.

On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 10:15:59 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 16:18:42 -0700, T wrote:

I never would expect every piece of feedback to be taken. I am
quite active on the Open Source community and submit tons of
bug reports and RFE's (request for enhancements). I would say
about 95% of the bugs I submit get fixed. (Red Hat, Mozilla and
Libreoffice are my heroes; Openoffice, not so much.) And about
50% of the RFE's get taken seriously. The trick is in writing
a well documented and respectful letter.

Oh, the irony. Would such a letter include things like "M$", "idiot
account", or "Frankenstein"? I think it would need to before it could be
taken seriously.

I could hardly fail to disagree with you less.

Years ago I had a friend who said that on occasion. I never figured out
if he meant he agreed or disagreed with me :-)

He was a rather political guy, and whatever he meant, he wanted to stay
out of trouble.

To be honest, I'm not sure I quoted him correctly above. It was a long
time ago, and anyway, I would bet that I couldn't quote him accurately
even then.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

T wrote:
On 04/18/2015 12:39 AM, . . .winston wrote:
T wrote:
On 04/16/2015 03:14 PM, . . .winston wrote:
T wrote:
On 04/16/2015 01:28 AM, . . .winston wrote:
T wrote:
Hi All,

I asked M$ to post their ISOs the same time they post their fast
tracks:

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...ew2014Feedback








What do you suppose my chances are of them paying attention?
0.0000000001%?

-T

You might have had a marginal chance of someone noticing the request
before stating the following:
qp
And they are not letting me use the tool unless I have one of their
idiot account.
/qp

Nicely stated, no?

MSFT makes the rules for the Feedback program. Not choosing to
accept
those requirements to provide feedback is akin to saying 'ignore my
input'

If M$ paid any attention, and I mean any attention at all, Windows 8
would have never happened. So, I do feel stupid even wasting my time
providing "feedback".

And if they really wanted anyone's feedback, they wouldn't require you
to sign up for an "account". This is all about marketing you. Not
about feedback.

No, it's about soliciting feedback from Win10P users who are willing to
follow the guidelines MSFT determines appropriate.

i.e. If you disagree with those guidelines you by default are agreeing
to be ignored including any potential feedback and any complaints about
'paying any attention [at all]'.


They don't pay any attention anyway. They just want you signed up
so they can market you.

You will notice that the name of the forum is "WinPreview2014Feedback".
And, they themselves admit they don't take "feedback" on their
"feedback" forum.

I feel stupid even attempting it.

I have to tell myself that when Frankenstein the Elder (w8) was
previewing, that the feedback anger was deafening. M$ ignored
all of it. I even remember Info World running an article
where they stated that yup, M$ just deletes their feedback.

I was hoping that m$ had turned a new leaf on
social.technet.microsoft.com = "WinPreview2014Feedback", but
they did not.

I should have known better.

If one has never submitted feedback then any perception on what is
submitted and paid attention is obviously and simply conjecture.

Quite a few pieces of feedback end up in the circular file and
rightfully so....not all feedback warrants modification of an existing
business plan that often necessitates prioritizing resources and
direction. Compared to the past system (when the beta feedback mode of
voting on topics was in place) imo the current is better since the past
was always skewed by vote solicitation (vote by popularity rather than
by actual voter validation).



Hi Winston,

I agree.

I never would expect every piece of feedback to be taken. I am
quite active on the Open Source community and submit tons of
bug reports and RFE's (request for enhancements). I would say
about 95% of the bugs I submit get fixed. (Red Hat, Mozilla and
Libreoffice are my heroes; Openoffice, not so much.) And about
50% of the RFE's get taken seriously. The trick is in writing
a well documented and respectful letter.

My big beef with M$ is that they have no reasonable reporting
mechanism in place. What I see M$ doing is only superficial.
If they really wanted to get some decent feedback -- bugs
and RFE's -- they would put a Bugzilla tracker up (like
Red Hat does) and start taking their customers seriously.
But they do not and I do not think that culture will ever
change.

I feel stupid even trying to get some feedback to them,
as I really don't think they have any intention whatsoever
of even reading it. They just want my name and address
so they can market me. If M$ paid any attention whatsoever,
we would not have to suffer with Frankenstein and Sons
(w8 & w10).

And I have yet to be ever marketed from any of the
bug reporter (Bugzilla, etc.) forums that I am on.

As I tell my customers: M$ is not a software company.
They are a marketing firm with a considerable software
publishing capacity. They will go down in the history
of business as the capitalists that managed to sell
DEFECTIVE ice makers to Eskimos. Quality is job
324,312, right next to security at job 324,513.
Marketing is job #1.

If M$ really gave a damn about quality, they would have
a Bugzilla (or similar) in place.

I think you are giving M$ too much credit. I know you
like the guys, so I do apologize. This must not have
been easy for you to read.

-T


Systems are in place, it's seems apparent that you're not aware of them,
haven't used them, don't understand them, or wish that your preferred
method be adopted for your but not everyone's benefit.

Improvement is always necessary in any feedback system.

Criticism is always warranted. Sometimes it makes sense, other times its
based on ignorance.

Lol...I read everything easily.


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

T wrote:
On 04/19/2015 04:23 AM, mechanic wrote:
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 16:18:42 -0700, T wrote:

If M$ really gave a damn about quality, they would have
a Bugzilla (or similar) in place.

https://connect.microsoft.com/

Filtering input on many products, presumably to avoid being swamped
by ill-informed illiterates. Present company excepted, of course.


Hi Mechanic,

Do you have any experience with them actually paying any attention
to what is posted on this? Have you ever seen a developer actually
write back to a posters on this forum? Red Hat, Mozilla, Libre
Office all do. M$ just doesn't give a damn. It is not their
business model. If they did, we would not all be suffering with
Frankenstein and Sons (w8 and w10).

Thank you for the link.

-T

Not true...credibility of the submitter can have an impact on developer
direct feedback....though all should understand that developers aren't
the decision makers - managers, budgets and resource allocation
determine what may or may not receive attention.

Lol...and 'we' is never universal when it comes to suffering on o/s.



--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 10:43:44 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 10:15:59 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 16:18:42 -0700, T wrote:

I never would expect every piece of feedback to be taken. I am
quite active on the Open Source community and submit tons of
bug reports and RFE's (request for enhancements). I would say
about 95% of the bugs I submit get fixed. (Red Hat, Mozilla and
Libreoffice are my heroes; Openoffice, not so much.) And about
50% of the RFE's get taken seriously. The trick is in writing
a well documented and respectful letter.

Oh, the irony. Would such a letter include things like "M$", "idiot
account", or "Frankenstein"? I think it would need to before it could be
taken seriously.

I could hardly fail to disagree with you less.

Years ago I had a friend who said that on occasion. I never figured out
if he meant he agreed or disagreed with me :-)

He was a rather political guy, and whatever he meant, he wanted to stay
out of trouble.

To be honest, I'm not sure I quoted him correctly above. It was a long
time ago, and anyway, I would bet that I couldn't quote him accurately
even then.

I have no idea, but I appreciate the sentiment. I think, also, that my
statement above could have benefited from an emoticon. ;-)

On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 16:42:33 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 10:43:44 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 10:15:59 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 16:18:42 -0700, T wrote:

I never would expect every piece of feedback to be taken. I am
quite active on the Open Source community and submit tons of
bug reports and RFE's (request for enhancements). I would say
about 95% of the bugs I submit get fixed. (Red Hat, Mozilla and
Libreoffice are my heroes; Openoffice, not so much.) And about
50% of the RFE's get taken seriously. The trick is in writing
a well documented and respectful letter.

Oh, the irony. Would such a letter include things like "M$", "idiot
account", or "Frankenstein"? I think it would need to before it could be
taken seriously.

I could hardly fail to disagree with you less.

Years ago I had a friend who said that on occasion. I never figured out
if he meant he agreed or disagreed with me :-)

He was a rather political guy, and whatever he meant, he wanted to stay
out of trouble.

To be honest, I'm not sure I quoted him correctly above. It was a long
time ago, and anyway, I would bet that I couldn't quote him accurately
even then.

I have no idea, but I appreciate the sentiment. I think, also, that my
statement above could have benefited from an emoticon. ;-)

Not needed, IMO.

At least I *thought* you were having fun.

But after all, I'm only one of the thousands reading this NG.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)