Asked M$ to post ISO when they post fast track

On 04/20/2015 08:15 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 16:18:42 -0700, T wrote:

I never would expect every piece of feedback to be taken. I am
quite active on the Open Source community and submit tons of
bug reports and RFE's (request for enhancements). I would say
about 95% of the bugs I submit get fixed. (Red Hat, Mozilla and
Libreoffice are my heroes; Openoffice, not so much.) And about
50% of the RFE's get taken seriously. The trick is in writing
a well documented and respectful letter.

Oh, the irony. Would such a letter include things like "M$", "idiot
account", or "Frankenstein"? I think it would need to before it could be
taken seriously.


No irony at all. You are just looking for something to condescend
over.

As far as "M$, idiot account, or Frankenstein" goes, it depends
on your audience. I do not kiss M$'s toes like you do.

And, I did not call the M$ account an "idiot account" until
after I figured out I wasn't writing M$, but other colleagues.
If you want to see how I would have address M$ directly, just
read my initial posting.

On 04/20/2015 12:16 PM, . . .winston wrote:
Systems are in place, it's seems apparent that you're not aware of them,
haven't used them, don't understand them, or wish that your preferred
method be adopted for your but not everyone's benefit.

Improvement is always necessary in any feedback system.

Criticism is always warranted. Sometimes it makes sense, other times its
based on ignorance.

Hi Winston,

I am positive they have some kind of system in place. If
I were to guess, I would posit that it was mainly internal.
And, I also posit that Marketing has veto power.

M$ just borked a bunch of patches this Tuesday:

https://threatpost.com/microsoft-fix...s14-045/107953

M$'s internal testers constantly miss stuff like this.

-T

On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 21:13:47 -0700, T wrote:

On 04/20/2015 08:15 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 16:18:42 -0700, T wrote:

I never would expect every piece of feedback to be taken. I am
quite active on the Open Source community and submit tons of
bug reports and RFE's (request for enhancements). I would say
about 95% of the bugs I submit get fixed. (Red Hat, Mozilla and
Libreoffice are my heroes; Openoffice, not so much.) And about
50% of the RFE's get taken seriously. The trick is in writing
a well documented and respectful letter.

Oh, the irony. Would such a letter include things like "M$", "idiot
account", or "Frankenstein"? I think it would need to before it could be
taken seriously.


No irony at all. You are just looking for something to condescend
over.

You make it too easy.

On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 22:21:22 -0700, T wrote:

And, I also posit that Marketing has veto power.

Didn't do Steve Jobs any harm.

On 04/20/2015 10:57 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 21:13:47 -0700, T wrote:

On 04/20/2015 08:15 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 16:18:42 -0700, T wrote:

I never would expect every piece of feedback to be taken. I am
quite active on the Open Source community and submit tons of
bug reports and RFE's (request for enhancements). I would say
about 95% of the bugs I submit get fixed. (Red Hat, Mozilla and
Libreoffice are my heroes; Openoffice, not so much.) And about
50% of the RFE's get taken seriously. The trick is in writing
a well documented and respectful letter.

Oh, the irony. Would such a letter include things like "M$", "idiot
account", or "Frankenstein"? I think it would need to before it could be
taken seriously.


No irony at all. You are just looking for something to condescend
over.

You make it too easy.


Continue to dig holes under others to build yourself
up and you will eventually find yourself in the same hole
you dig

On 04/21/2015 04:19 AM, mechanic wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 22:21:22 -0700, T wrote:

And, I also posit that Marketing has veto power.

Didn't do Steve Jobs any harm.


Hi Mechanic,

Steve Jobs would go to each engineer one at a time
and ask them what they thought. The iPod (Apple's
stock symbol, no?) was a good example. Marketing
had canned the idea. When the engineer showed
Jobs his idea, Jobs overrode marketing. The
rest is history.

I don't see anything like this at M$. M$ just
does whatever they want to do and the rest of
us are left to cope. If M$ were not (convicted on
two continents) monopolists, they would never get
away with things like Vista and Windows Nein
(opps, sorry Frankenstein and Sons).

Steve had some talent. He put his customer's
first.

-T

"T" wrote in message ...
On 04/21/2015 04:19 AM, mechanic wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 22:21:22 -0700, T wrote:

And, I also posit that Marketing has veto power.

Didn't do Steve Jobs any harm.


Hi Mechanic,

Steve Jobs would go to each engineer one at a time
and ask them what they thought. The iPod (Apple's
stock symbol, no?) was a good example. Marketing
had canned the idea. When the engineer showed
Jobs his idea, Jobs overrode marketing. The
rest is history.

I don't see anything like this at M$. M$ just
does whatever they want to do and the rest of
us are left to cope. If M$ were not (convicted on
two continents) monopolists, they would never get
away with things like Vista and Windows Nein
(opps, sorry Frankenstein and Sons).

Steve had some talent. He put his customer's
first.

-T




"M$" How juvinile................

Chris

On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 10:42:43 -0700, T wrote:

On 04/20/2015 10:57 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 21:13:47 -0700, T wrote:

On 04/20/2015 08:15 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 16:18:42 -0700, T wrote:

I never would expect every piece of feedback to be taken. I am
quite active on the Open Source community and submit tons of
bug reports and RFE's (request for enhancements). I would say
about 95% of the bugs I submit get fixed. (Red Hat, Mozilla and
Libreoffice are my heroes; Openoffice, not so much.) And about
50% of the RFE's get taken seriously. The trick is in writing
a well documented and respectful letter.

Oh, the irony. Would such a letter include things like "M$", "idiot
account", or "Frankenstein"? I think it would need to before it could be
taken seriously.


No irony at all. You are just looking for something to condescend
over.

You make it too easy.


Continue to dig holes under others to build yourself
up and you will eventually find yourself in the same hole
you dig

Don't make it about me. It's about you and your obsession with M$, which
apparently equates to MS (Microsoft) in your mind. If you don't like others
pointing out how silly it all is, you know how to stop it.

T wrote:


I don't see anything like this at M$.

Microsoft does do innovative stuff in the lab.

But they're also bad at making calls about
whether to productize what they create.

*******

The canonical example a techie would quote
for you, was Xerox. Very good lab work, but
the main company didn't want to use it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Parc

"While the 3,000 mile buffer between it and
Xerox headquarters in Rochester, New York
afforded scientists at the new lab [PARC] great freedom
to undertake their work, the distance also served
as an impediment in persuading management of the
promise of some of their greatest achievements."

There can be organizational reasons for
ideas to not escape from labs.

You would think Google would have good
coupling between research and product,
but even Google has to narrow down what
they spend money on. And I'm willing to
bet there are a few frustrated staff there
as well. (Like the staff on the Barge Project.
The barge got sold.)

Paul

On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 10:54:00 -0700, T wrote:

Steve Jobs would go to each engineer one at a time
and ask them what they thought. The iPod (Apple's
stock symbol, no?) was a good example.

You misunderstand Steve's role - he was demanding the engineers
build his vision which he would then sell to the public. When the
'three products in one' was announced, that was product design by
marketers who understood what was needed before the customers did.
Genius.

Chris S wrote:

"T" wrote in message ...
On 04/21/2015 04:19 AM, mechanic wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 22:21:22 -0700, T wrote:

And, I also posit that Marketing has veto power.

Didn't do Steve Jobs any harm.


Hi Mechanic,

Steve Jobs would go to each engineer one at a time
and ask them what they thought. The iPod (Apple's
stock symbol, no?) was a good example. Marketing
had canned the idea. When the engineer showed
Jobs his idea, Jobs overrode marketing. The
rest is history.

I don't see anything like this at M$. M$ just
does whatever they want to do and the rest of
us are left to cope. If M$ were not (convicted on
two continents) monopolists, they would never get
away with things like Vista and Windows Nein
(opps, sorry Frankenstein and Sons).

Steve had some talent. He put his customer's
first.

-T




"M$" How juvinile................

Chris

No monopoly convictions on this contintent.

Fyi - S.Jobs, while he had great vision, was 'Marketing'

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

On 04/21/2015 11:48 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 10:42:43 -0700, T wrote:

On 04/20/2015 10:57 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 21:13:47 -0700, T wrote:

On 04/20/2015 08:15 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 16:18:42 -0700, T wrote:

I never would expect every piece of feedback to be taken. I am
quite active on the Open Source community and submit tons of
bug reports and RFE's (request for enhancements). I would say
about 95% of the bugs I submit get fixed. (Red Hat, Mozilla and
Libreoffice are my heroes; Openoffice, not so much.) And about
50% of the RFE's get taken seriously. The trick is in writing
a well documented and respectful letter.

Oh, the irony. Would such a letter include things like "M$", "idiot
account", or "Frankenstein"? I think it would need to before it could be
taken seriously.


No irony at all. You are just looking for something to condescend
over.

You make it too easy.


Continue to dig holes under others to build yourself
up and you will eventually find yourself in the same hole
you dig

Don't make it about me. It's about you and your obsession with M$, which
apparently equates to MS (Microsoft) in your mind. If you don't like others
pointing out how silly it all is, you know how to stop it.


Do you have trouble getting the taste of M$'s toes out of your mouth?

On 04/21/2015 11:20 AM, Chris S wrote:

"T" wrote in message ...
On 04/21/2015 04:19 AM, mechanic wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 22:21:22 -0700, T wrote:

And, I also posit that Marketing has veto power.

Didn't do Steve Jobs any harm.


Hi Mechanic,

Steve Jobs would go to each engineer one at a time
and ask them what they thought. The iPod (Apple's
stock symbol, no?) was a good example. Marketing
had canned the idea. When the engineer showed
Jobs his idea, Jobs overrode marketing. The
rest is history.

I don't see anything like this at M$. M$ just
does whatever they want to do and the rest of
us are left to cope. If M$ were not (convicted on
two continents) monopolists, they would never get
away with things like Vista and Windows Nein
(opps, sorry Frankenstein and Sons).

Steve had some talent. He put his customer's
first.

-T




"M$" How juvinile................

Chris


It is a gentle jab and compliment. If you don't like it,
no one is forcing you to read it.

On 04/22/2015 02:11 AM, . . .winston wrote:
Chris S wrote:

"T" wrote in message
...
On 04/21/2015 04:19 AM, mechanic wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 22:21:22 -0700, T wrote:

And, I also posit that Marketing has veto power.

Didn't do Steve Jobs any harm.


Hi Mechanic,

Steve Jobs would go to each engineer one at a time
and ask them what they thought. The iPod (Apple's
stock symbol, no?) was a good example. Marketing
had canned the idea. When the engineer showed
Jobs his idea, Jobs overrode marketing. The
rest is history.

I don't see anything like this at M$. M$ just
does whatever they want to do and the rest of
us are left to cope. If M$ were not (convicted on
two continents) monopolists, they would never get
away with things like Vista and Windows Nein
(opps, sorry Frankenstein and Sons).

Steve had some talent. He put his customer's
first.

-T




"M$" How juvinile................

Chris


No monopoly convictions on this contintent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...Microsoft_Corp.
It was "settled".


Fyi - S.Jobs, while he had great vision, was 'Marketing'

He actually know what he was doing.

On 04/21/2015 12:46 PM, Paul wrote:
T wrote:


I don't see anything like this at M$.

Microsoft does do innovative stuff in the lab.

But they're also bad at making calls about
whether to productize what they create.

*******

The canonical example a techie would quote
for you, was Xerox. Very good lab work, but
the main company didn't want to use it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Parc

"While the 3,000 mile buffer between it and
Xerox headquarters in Rochester, New York
afforded scientists at the new lab [PARC] great freedom
to undertake their work, the distance also served
as an impediment in persuading management of the
promise of some of their greatest achievements."

There can be organizational reasons for
ideas to not escape from labs.

You would think Google would have good
coupling between research and product,
but even Google has to narrow down what
they spend money on. And I'm willing to
bet there are a few frustrated staff there
as well. (Like the staff on the Barge Project.
The barge got sold.)

Paul

Great read. Thank you!

Listening to customer feedback is a huge advantage too.
Trader Joe's is huge with this.

Remember when Ami Pro use to have a customer feedback
phone number? I really hated to see Ami Pro go
(Lotus bought them).