Win 7 upgrade

On Sun, 03 May 2015 01:48:13 -0700, T wrote:

The old Catch 22: developers won't develop for Linux because of Linux's
small install base; users won't switch to Linux because of the lack
of apps.

We are already offtopic, but...
I`m using a virtualized Fedora (running on Win 7 as a host) as a
terminal server (xrdp) for safe and separate internet access for my 4
employees, because we are still on a virtualized XP for most of our
work (dental office). The problem is, that updating Fedora usually
will break one or another software or configuration. So I freezed
Fedora (and it may have become unsecure already, but it would be too
time consuming to fix that).

So Linux has more problems than not enough programs: Too many
distributions, all varying more or less, making it impossible to get a
stable user experience over several Linuxes. I think it is called an
"unstable API" what makes running old linux programs on updated linux
desktops often impossible. Linux is extremely fragmented, and that has
not changed to the better the last 15 years I`m touching Linux from
time to time.

For me only Google made a polished product out of Linux, called
Android.

8, 8.1, 10: all the same animal. All have dissimilar and inappropriate
technologies stitched together.

May be. I still use XP most of the time, followed by 7, and try to
avoid 8.1.

But if Windows 10 should offer a good, consistent, almost identical
user experience from the desktop to tablets to mobile phones, it could
beat Apple, still fragmented into iOS and OSX. And Microsoft has not
to protect hardware sales like Apple. It can offer a mobile phone,
doubling as a desktop at home with Continuum (as could Google with
Android). Ubuntu could have been the leader here, but failed:
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Canon...u-Edge_id46626
Canonical and the failure of the Ubuntu Edge
Posted: 22 Aug 2013, 02:04, by Maxwell R.

So Microsoft has bold ambitions for Windows 10. In a year or so we
will know, whether they could deliver what is promised now.

Regards

M.

On 2015-05-03 4:51 AM, T wrote:
On 05/02/2015 03:16 PM, Michael Logies wrote:
I have tried Linux several times. Good for special purposes, not so
versatile as Windows, at least for me. I would have to learn too much
to become good on Linux.

I set up Xfce such that it looks exactly like XP. Put their
favorite App icons on their desktop. They virtually can't
tell it apart from XP, except that it doesn't crash.

Linux is very good at imitating superior products.

--
Slimer
Encrypt.

T wrote:
On 05/02/2015 11:55 AM, . . .winston wrote:
purchase full version media (disks or media download) from MSFT or 3rd
party resellers. No upgrade media available in consumer market (i.e.
only full version)

Hi Winston,

Do you know if the full version will also include the ability to
upgrade Widows 7?

-T

Windows 8.1 did. It would seem logical to provide that option.
It's important to understand the process for going from Win7 to Win10
when using media (all media is full version)

Just like Win7 to 8.1 media based upgrages - no settings, no installed
programs, just personal files (i.e. data only retained)





--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

T wrote:

On 05/02/2015 12:44 PM, Darklight wrote:
Dino wrote:

If I upgrade from a windows 7 machine to win 10 would anyone know if MS
will render that version of win 7 unusable?If so I will have to just pay
for win 10 to be able to install on empty HD.
While installing win 10 I due the custom install and uncheck a lot of
spyware but I wonder if that will do any good.Invasion of privicy is my
biggest concern with win 10
Linux might be looking better than it used to.

Before you decided, if you have used linux before ignore this. If you
have not used linux before watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49PxrcmY6dU

have fun.


Hi Darklight,

Great video. Doesn't address the issue of the lack of apps.
If there were the same apps for Linux as Windows, M$
would be a faint memory in the ether.

-T

What apps are you looking for. And i can tell you if there are such
apps available i run both os win8.1 and linux.

.. . .winston wrote:

Darklight wrote:
. . .winston wrote:

Dino wrote:
Ken1943 wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2015 12:12:54 -0400, Dino wrote:

If I upgrade from a windows 7 machine to win 10 would anyone know if
MS will render that version of win 7 unusable?If so I will have to
just pay for win 10 to be able to install on empty HD.
While installing win 10 I due the custom install and uncheck a lot of
spyware but I wonder if that will do any good.Invasion of privicy is
my biggest concern with win 10
Linux might be looking better than it used to.

It will over wright Win 7 and the serial can't be used again. Just
like the Win 7 to 8 "update".
Our privacy was compromised long before 10.


KenW
I bought 3 win 8 upgrades and was offered to download iso files for
install on other computers.I wonder if win 10 will offer something
similar?

Win 10 will be available in 2 forms
- upgrade free via Windows Update
- purchase full version media (disks or media download) from MSFT or
3rd party resellers. No upgrade media available in consumer market
(i.e. only full version)

Windows 8.0 was the last 'upgrade' purchasable o/s. 8.1 and later (just
like Office 10 and later) is all full version.

Thus you can purchase as many Win10 (full versions) as needed either
receiving download link or media (media when and if available will be an
extra cost for the DVDs)


I done this with win 8.1. I upgraded win 8 to win 8.1 on my primary drive
via windows store. Then at a later date i downloaded the win 8.1 iso from
Microsoft web site. I installed win 8.1 in virtualbox and used my win 8
cd key needless to say win 8.1 installed and worked.

I assume this will be the same with win 10 don't hold me to that.

I downloaded the win 8.1 ISO because i don't like where win 10 is going.
what they are trying to ship are poor imitations of what linux can do for
years wand want people to pay for it.

As for linux not having spyware, who know what lies beneath the hood!


Where Win10 is going ? Where have you been for the last decade.

The seeds of Win10 were planted almost a dozen or more years ago. MSFT
has always had a willing fee based or free Microsoft Account population
(started with MSN in 1995) whether it be msn, passport.net, hotmail.com,
live.com, outlook.com.

The Msn/Hotmail/Live/Outlook.com population started out relatively small
but by prior to Hotmail being rolled into the company it was around 5-6
million by 2006 that MSFT account (Hotmail/Messenger user population)
was over 200 million, today it's around 0.5 Billion. Pretty impressive
growth over 20 yrs.

What happened in the last decade. Windows Live. First consumer free
local suite of applications with cloud integration. Even with usage in
the low millions it was more than sufficient to gather telemetry on
cloud usage via sharing (Photo-email and Messenger both stored content
on MSFT cloud eventually migrating to Microsoft Account user cloud
storage).

Many folks will complain about the Windows Live (now Windows Essentials)
applications but with Mail, Messenger, Mesh, Photo Gallery all local and
cloud integrated more than sufficient statistical sampling data (95%
confidence, 5% or less error) for probability projections the seeds of
the future of Windows was obvious. Windows Live was never really about
application it was about collecting data on sharing and cloud storage.
That data proved to be golden for where Windows should/would go.

Throw in the smart devices (hand-helds) and it would seem quite obvious
that where Windows is going has nothing to do about the last 2
generations usage but the future disposable income of the youngest.



You think windows is locked down. it's getting worse. I like to have a
degree of control. Windows 10 is taking that away. IE windows update
there is no option in windows 10. To choose between auto and manual update.

And there is talk of taking away control panel.

As for the start menu. that's a joke. there are no options to choose
what start menu you want to use. How hard can it be to give a person
the choice between a standard menu, metro interface and windows 10
incarnation or a start menu.

Windows says we give you what we want and you will pay for it.

How many people do you think are going to use multiple desktops.

And windows 10 multiple desktop is just crap.

I have multiple desktop setup on my linux OS. And it makes windows 10
multi desktop look like crap and they want people to pay for it.

I mean what was wrong with windows 8. All they had to do was give people a
choice of start menu's and people would not have complained.

And they still can't do that.

On 05/03/2015 03:15 AM, Michael Logies wrote:
problem is, that updating Fedora usually
will break one or another software or configuration.

Hi Michael,

I have never seen that. Well, sometimes nVidia and X11
don't like each other.

What problems exactly were you seeing? I might be
able to help.

-T


I love "xrdp"!

On 05/04/2015 03:37 AM, Darklight wrote:
T wrote:

On 05/02/2015 12:44 PM, Darklight wrote:
Dino wrote:

If I upgrade from a windows 7 machine to win 10 would anyone know if MS
will render that version of win 7 unusable?If so I will have to just pay
for win 10 to be able to install on empty HD.
While installing win 10 I due the custom install and uncheck a lot of
spyware but I wonder if that will do any good.Invasion of privicy is my
biggest concern with win 10
Linux might be looking better than it used to.

Before you decided, if you have used linux before ignore this. If you
have not used linux before watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49PxrcmY6dU

have fun.


Hi Darklight,

Great video. Doesn't address the issue of the lack of apps.
If there were the same apps for Linux as Windows, M$
would be a faint memory in the ether.

-T

What apps are you looking for. And i can tell you if there are such
apps available i run both os win8.1 and linux.



Hi Darklight,

I am down to only having to run virtual XP to run
Go To Assist.

Things that usually trip up my customers a

Quickbooks, especially payroll
Quicken
M$ Office (I know, Libre Office is just as good)
Adobe this, that, and the other thing
Tax software
Specialty small business software only written for Windows.
Idiot Web apps written only for IE
Ancestry software

-T

On the bright side Qoppa's PDF Studio (Mac, Linux, and Windows)
is awesome.

On 05/02/2015 03:16 PM, Michael Logies wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2015 16:20:51 -0400, Dino wrote:

Linux is very stable
but the problem with it is there is always something lacking software or
hardware that makes me need windows.

I have tried Linux several times. Good for special purposes, not so
versatile as Windows, at least for me. I would have to learn too much
to become good on Linux.

Hi Michael,

You just have some guy like me set it up for you. I can make it look
almost identical to XP or W7. You just click on your desktop icons
the same way you do in Windows. Linux is really easy to use. I
think you are remember about 10 years ago when it was difficult to use.

-T

On 05/03/2015 03:15 AM, Michael Logies wrote:
So Linux has more problems than not enough programs: Too many
distributions, all varying more or less, making it impossible to get a
stable user experience over several Linuxes.

Hi Michael,

There are really only two distros of Linux: Ubuntu and Fedora.
And you will be very hard pressed not to find things that easily run
on both.

The 600 variants is just FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt).


I think it is called an
"unstable API" what makes running old linux programs on updated linux
desktops often impossible. Linux is extremely fragmented, and that has
not changed to the better the last 15 years I`m touching Linux from
time to time.

Huh. What are you trying to run? Maybe I can give you some tips.

-T

T wrote:

On 05/04/2015 03:37 AM, Darklight wrote:
T wrote:

On 05/02/2015 12:44 PM, Darklight wrote:
Dino wrote:

If I upgrade from a windows 7 machine to win 10 would anyone know if
MS will render that version of win 7 unusable?If so I will have to
just pay for win 10 to be able to install on empty HD.
While installing win 10 I due the custom install and uncheck a lot of
spyware but I wonder if that will do any good.Invasion of privicy is
my biggest concern with win 10
Linux might be looking better than it used to.

Before you decided, if you have used linux before ignore this. If you
have not used linux before watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49PxrcmY6dU

have fun.


Hi Darklight,

Great video. Doesn't address the issue of the lack of apps.
If there were the same apps for Linux as Windows, M$
would be a faint memory in the ether.

-T

What apps are you looking for. And i can tell you if there are such
apps available i run both os win8.1 and linux.



Hi Darklight,

I am down to only having to run virtual XP to run
Go To Assist.

Things that usually trip up my customers a

Quickbooks, especially payroll
Paythyme
http://www.paythyme.org.uk/
Quicken
GnuCash
http://nixmash.com/linux/quicken-to-...t-application/
M$ Office (I know, Libre Office is just as good)
crossover will allow you to install ms office
https://www.codeweavers.com/products/
I find openoffice does a better job than libreoffice.
i have ms office, libreoffice and openoffice installed on my pc
i have used openoffice to create pdf files.
Adobe this, that, and the other thing
if you use adobe for pdf files there is Okular
Tax software
Specialty small business software only written for Windows.
Idiot Web apps written only for IE
Ancestry software
And i am sure if you do a search for the rest of these you are bound to find
an alternative.

-T

On the bright side Qoppa's PDF Studio (Mac, Linux, and Windows)
is awesome.
I hope the above helps

T wrote:

On 05/03/2015 03:15 AM, Michael Logies wrote:
So Linux has more problems than not enough programs: Too many
distributions, all varying more or less, making it impossible to get a
stable user experience over several Linuxes.

Hi Michael,

There are really only two distros of Linux: Ubuntu and Fedora.
And you will be very hard pressed not to find things that easily run
on both.

I have to interject here you forgot opensuse. I have tried quiet a few linux
distro's and opensuse is the most polished and user friendly.

The 600 variants is just FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt).


I think it is called an
"unstable API" what makes running old linux programs on updated linux
desktops often impossible. Linux is extremely fragmented, and that has
not changed to the better the last 15 years I`m touching Linux from
time to time.

Huh. What are you trying to run? Maybe I can give you some tips.

-T

On Tue, 05 May 2015 10:20:08 +0100, Darklight wrote:

you forgot opensuse

- and Mageia (though SuSe was my first Linux).

(Mageia-5 is imminent)

--
/\/\aurice
(Retired in Surrey, UK) Registered Linux User #487649
Linux 64-bit Mageia-4: Pan (newsreader) 0.139
KDE 4.12.5 Virtualbox 4.3.26 Firefox 31.5.3 KMail 4.12.5

On Tue, 05 May 2015 10:17:29 +0100, Darklight
wrote:

Things that usually trip up my customers a
(...)
Quicken
GnuCash
http://nixmash.com/linux/quicken-to-...t-application/

Specialty small business software only written for Windows.
(...)
And i am sure if you do a search for the rest of these you are bound to find
an alternative.

Darklight,

how old are you, 20? ;-)
I`m almost 50 and using PCs since 30 years. And the last 15 years I
was reading Linux advocates like you from time to time...

No, GnuCash cannot replace Quicken as far as I`m concerned, needing
reports, graphics, electronic banking. In germany Moneyplex (Linux,
Windows, Mac) would be the obvious alternative:
http://www.matrica.de/produkte/produktmpx1.html
But even this would mean that I had to import too many data (20 years
of bank accounts and stocks - impossible). The last 15 years of my
career I will stick with Quicken, I hope.

A dental office software is about 5000 USD and thousands of dollar
worth in invested time (training and customizations). And there is
simply no dental program for Linux as good as my dental software on
Windows.

I`m a more or less happy windows user. The ROI during the last 20
years was very good, because I never had to buy a Windows Server but
could use peer to peer networking with Windows Professional, a Linux
NAS and a lot of cheap/free third party software (Openoffice, PagePlus
for DTP, Irfanview, Picasa, Thunderbird, Firefox/Zotero, Total
Commander. My Microsoft Office is from 2002 and still sufficient in my
virtualized Windows XP terminal server (www.thinsoftinc.com)).

I don`t need an accountant because of Quicken and don`t need a tax
advisor because of some Windows software. Only in 2014 the first of
the four leading german tax programs for endusers became available for
Linux:
http://www.steuertipps.de/steuererkl...er-nur-mit-uns

To make it short: Linux cannot replace Windows completely today and
will not in the foreseeable future, at least not for the Windows Power
User and many Small Businesses (my focus). But for day to day tasks
for many people something like Linux Mint may be already sufficient.
Linux Mint is No. 1 at Distrowatch:
http://distrowatch.com/index.php?language=DE

China and Russia have declared that they don`t want to use any
products from Microsoft any more because of the NSA scandal (it`s
linux instead). Other countries may follow. Mobiles dominate the
personal computing markets in many countries today and in the future.
Microsoft knows all that and tries to innovate with Windows 10 for a
continous user experience from mobile to desktop to the cloud, hence
"Continuum". And that makes Windows 10 the most interesting product
for me since XP. (But in the moment we cannot test this because the
mobile devices for Continuum are not available, yet.).

Regards

M.

On 05/05/2015 02:20 AM, Darklight wrote:
I have to interject here you forgot opensuse. I have tried quiet a few linux
distro's and opensuse is the most polished and user friendly.


Hi Darklight,

Sort of like RHEL without being so terribly out of date.
And I am sure we missed a few others too.

What always amazes me is that when presented with
choices that are all compatible with each other,
folks make the 600 distro remark.

All the software I use will work on all the available
platforms, unless I start trying to hack into mobile Linux,
etc..

Choice is a good thing. One size fits all, not so good.

-T

On 05/05/2015 10:18 AM, Maurice wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 10:20:08 +0100, Darklight wrote:

you forgot opensuse

- and Mageia (though SuSe was my first Linux).

(Mageia-5 is imminent)


And all of your software will run on Suse, Fedora,
Ubuntu, ...

Choice is a good thing.