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#1
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
Hi All,
This guy has well though out criticism and not just a fan boi picking on someone. My purpose for posting is to make others aware of the design flaws and to better deal with them and to help others. So, tech evangelists, please take it elsewhere. And yes, he forgot "Fast Boot". And, also yes, not an excuse for not learning 10. Just hold your nose. -T Why I stopped using Windows 10 | 8 Major Reasons https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSykL1I-WIc Why I stopped using Windows 10 | 2019 Update https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SakjTLUuF-w If you don't want to watch the videos, here is his list. 1. Windows Updates - As a system admin having the computer force updates on my users makes me rage. I set the GPO and Off-Times, however it still finds a way to update at inconvenient times. 2. Windows Store - Microsoft store is horrid! It's the worst implementation of forced bloatware and a bold cash grab that just spits in our faces. Windows 8 should of taught Microsoft, but no, it had to continue in Windows 10. 3. Notification Bar - It sucks... its worthless, and overall just pointless. 4. Security Center - This technically started in Windows 7, but has carried on and just become more bloated. I want to pick my Anti-Virus, and choose my firewall settings. 5. Removal of Safe mode on boot - WTF!? I have to boot into Windows hold shift and reboot to get to safe mode? Really!?! Microsoft go home you are drunk! 6. Security - This could be a video in of itself, Major security issues this past year like the Windows Share exploit from the leaked NSA tools. I am still upset at Microsoft for wasting my weekends patching this. 7. Bi-Annual System Upgrades - Why!? just Why!? October update anyone? 8. File Sharing sucks in Windows - Ugh $C and the permissions just make me want to rage |
#2
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
T wrote:
Hi All, This guy has well though out criticism and not just a fan boi picking on someone. My purpose for posting is to make others aware of the design flaws and to better deal with them and to help others. So, tech evangelists, please take it elsewhere. And yes, he forgot "Fast Boot". And, also yes, not an excuse for not learning 10. Just hold your nose. -T I think a better article, would be finding a survey article that details what the average user wants. Is an out-of-box configuration sufficient ? Maybe that's all you need, for the average user. Having a series of picky people with some level of skill analyze an OS, isn't going to tell naive users what they need to know. Naive users will have trouble with everything you give them. And I still don't believe a bit, the stories about "I gave my grandma Linux and she hasn't phoned back since". I have 15 years of Unix experience, and I'm still wasting hours with the rough edges of Linux. Which includes, making a network connection work on a new install (because it's broken for my Intel NIC), when I can't get a web browser to connect to the Internet so I can look up stuff. Between Network Manager and SystemD adding no value to the experience, all I get is more broken NICs for my trouble. The network actually worked at one time, and there were fewer things to go wrong. Nobody has "taste" in the Linux world. They're slaves to convention. A SystemD convention. A PulseAudio convention (when audio did have a migration story that didn't include Pulseaudio). Who really needs all that *extra* aggravation. And they can never leave well enough alone (just like Microsoft). A couple years ago, I found some Linux Distros that could do file sharing *perfectly*. What do I find today ? It's broken again. The "automated Server setup" dialog has disappeared, implying I'm supposed to go back to editing a gawd-awful configuration file. And on the client side, maybe I can't get SMBv1 to work, and there's no documentation about what I have to do to fix it. Suite Jesus, sir. Paul |
#3
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
Paul wrote:
T wrote: This guy has well though out criticism and not just a fan boi picking on someone. My purpose for posting is to make others aware of the design flaws and to better deal with them and to help others. So, tech evangelists, please take it elsewhere. And yes, he forgot "Fast Boot". And, also yes, not an excuse for not learning 10. Just hold your nose. I think a better article, would be finding a survey article that details what the average user wants. Is an out-of-box configuration sufficient ? Maybe that's all you need, for the average user. Having a series of picky people with some level of skill analyze an OS, isn't going to tell naive users what they need to know. Naive users will have trouble with everything you give them. And I still don't believe a bit, the stories about "I gave my grandma Linux and she hasn't phoned back since". I have 15 years of Unix experience, and I'm still wasting hours with the rough edges of Linux. Which includes, making a network connection work on a new install (because it's broken for my Intel NIC), when I can't get a web browser to connect to the Internet so I can look up stuff. Between Network Manager and SystemD adding no value to the experience, all I get is more broken NICs for my trouble. The network actually worked at one time, and there were fewer things to go wrong. Nobody has "taste" in the Linux world. They're slaves to convention. A SystemD convention. A PulseAudio convention (when audio did have a migration story that didn't include Pulseaudio). Who really needs all that *extra* aggravation. And they can never leave well enough alone (just like Microsoft). A couple years ago, I found some Linux Distros that could do file sharing *perfectly*. What do I find today ? It's broken again. The "automated Server setup" dialog has disappeared, implying I'm supposed to go back to editing a gawd-awful configuration file. And on the client side, maybe I can't get SMBv1 to work, and there's no documentation about what I have to do to fix it. Yep! I'm glad you can take the time to spell it out, more than I understand. But I know it's true. I've always played with stuff over my head, I know what a wild goose chase looks like. And then Like the original poster mentions Like the "Windows Store" and I'm Like "What store?" That's Like for smartphone users. |
#4
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/6/19 6:09 PM, Paul wrote:
AndÂ*IÂ*stillÂ*don'tÂ*believeÂ*aÂ*bit,Â*theÂ*stori esÂ*aboutÂ*"IÂ*gave myÂ*grandmaÂ*LinuxÂ*andÂ*sheÂ*hasn'tÂ*phonedÂ*back Â*since". I have a few Grandmas" on Linux. They still call me, but when they buy a new printer. They also often forget where the print button is in Firefox. "Its printing! Who'd you do that?", "I pressed the print button". Then I show them the print button, again. (Linux's HP print support is getting pretty good as of late. They should still call me first though.) I put them on Xfce and configure the toobars to look like XP. And I give them desktop icons to press on. They forget about five minutes after I leave that they are not running XP. And they very very seldom ever call me. Windows Garndma's are always calling me. This makes sense if you look at IBM's help desk experience with Windows and Mac. With Linux and Mac, I seldom ever fuss with system issues. It is mainly installation of things and training. It is a whole different.. And explaining that their Internet is down, not them. I stated Unix with Sun OS. It hard to save anything bad about it, but just as soon as found Linux, I dropped Sun OS. I think Sun's big mistake was the same as Novell's Netware. Both were solid system, but they just over charged for services and left a bad taste in everyone's mouths. Netware was just to stinkin' weird and difficult to maintain. I did manager very well, but could not help but think they did it on purpose to charge for consulting services. When NT hit, Netware was dead. Sun's tech support ($300/hr back in the 90's) was extraordinary. |
#5
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
T wrote:
On 3/6/19 6:09 PM, Paul wrote: And I still don't believe a bit, the stories about "I gave my grandma Linux and she hasn't phoned back since". I have a few Grandmas" on Linux. They still call me, but when they buy a new printer. They also often forget where the print button is in Firefox. "Its printing! Who'd you do that?", "I pressed the print button". Then I show them the print button, again. (Linux's HP print support is getting pretty good as of late. They should still call me first though.) I put them on Xfce and configure the toobars to look like XP. And I give them desktop icons to press on. They forget about five minutes after I leave that they are not running XP. And they very very seldom ever call me. Windows Garndma's are always calling me. This makes sense if you look at IBM's help desk experience with Windows and Mac. With Linux and Mac, I seldom ever fuss with system issues. It is mainly installation of things and training. It is a whole different.. And explaining that their Internet is down, not them. I stated Unix with Sun OS. It hard to save anything bad about it, but just as soon as found Linux, I dropped Sun OS. I think Sun's big mistake was the same as Novell's Netware. Both were solid system, but they just over charged for services and left a bad taste in everyone's mouths. Netware was just to stinkin' weird and difficult to maintain. I did manager very well, but could not help but think they did it on purpose to charge for consulting services. When NT hit, Netware was dead. Sun's tech support ($300/hr back in the 90's) was extraordinary. There's a big difference between Sun and Linux. On SunOS, I could get real work done. The software, the APIs were documented. I could write a program and use a V2 library, and when the V3 library came along, it "didn't break" my program. There was backward compatibility. I'm not a programmer, and I could write networking utilities using their documentation to bootstrap myself. In addition, we designed hardware in VME Sun boxes - we did have to send a couple guys off for a few months to take a "driver writers" course, but other than that, the whole experience was quite pleasurable. When Solaris came along, the edges were a bit rougher at first. But you had Answerbook as reference material, so again, lots of documentation. With Linux, the edges are a lot rougher. Gentoo for example, is relatively decent, in that it's a "from source" kind of distro, but it has a "Manual" for new users to bootstrap from, that's pretty good. A couple weeks ago, I tried my hand at Arch, which is a "source"-like distro. I got as far as getting to a command line terminal, but it was the usual problem getting LightDM working (I *hate* Display Managers). So the experiment stopped there, as I couldn't find any documentation to sort it out. There's just no comparison between the good ole days with Sun, and what I find in Linux now. Yes, sometimes you find Linux stuff that works, but there's a lack of consistency which means every time a new release comes out, stuff that used to work could be broken again. (The lamentable situation with File Sharing being an example. Dammit, it worked *perfectly* at one point. How annoying.) Paul |
#6
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/7/19 2:42 AM, Paul wrote:
There'sÂ*justÂ*noÂ*comparisonÂ*betweenÂ*theÂ*good *oleÂ*days withÂ*Sun,Â*andÂ*whatÂ*IÂ*findÂ*inÂ*LinuxÂ*now.Â*Y es,Â*sometimes youÂ*findÂ*LinuxÂ*stuffÂ*thatÂ*works,Â*butÂ*there' sÂ*aÂ*lackÂ*ofÂ*consistency whichÂ*meansÂ*everyÂ*timeÂ*aÂ*newÂ*releaseÂ*comes *out,Â*stuff thatÂ*usedÂ*toÂ*workÂ*couldÂ*beÂ*brokenÂ*again.Â*( TheÂ*lamentable situationÂ*withÂ*FileÂ*SharingÂ*beingÂ*anÂ*example .Â*Dammit, itÂ*worked *perfectly*Â*atÂ*oneÂ*point.Â*HowÂ*annoying.) Â*Â*Â*Paul Ditto, I always shutter when I have to or think about going to the next revision. I test for months in a VM to see what land mines are in place. |
#7
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/6/19 11:55 PM, Big Al wrote:
On 3/7/19 2:42 AM, Paul wrote: There'sÂ*justÂ*noÂ*comparisonÂ*betweenÂ*theÂ*good *oleÂ*days withÂ*Sun,Â*andÂ*whatÂ*IÂ*findÂ*inÂ*LinuxÂ*now.Â*Y es,Â*sometimes youÂ*findÂ*LinuxÂ*stuffÂ*thatÂ*works,Â*butÂ*there' sÂ*aÂ*lackÂ*ofÂ*consistency whichÂ*meansÂ*everyÂ*timeÂ*aÂ*newÂ*releaseÂ*comes *out,Â*stuff thatÂ*usedÂ*toÂ*workÂ*couldÂ*beÂ*brokenÂ*again.Â*( TheÂ*lamentable situationÂ*withÂ*FileÂ*SharingÂ*beingÂ*anÂ*example .Â*Dammit, itÂ*worked *perfectly*Â*atÂ*oneÂ*point.Â*HowÂ*annoying.) Â*Â*Â*Â*Paul Ditto, I always shutter when I have to or think about going to the next revision.Â* I test for months in a VM to see what land mines are in place. Hi Big Al, Since I am a big Fedora guy and it upgrades versions every year, I am use to it. Mostly the updates are already there under to older version so no big surprises. Fedora 29 is rock solid, but Xfce went from 4.12 to 4.12, and 4.13 is a dog -- odd number releases are Xfce's experimental versions and Xfce freely admits it is a dog. I have seven or so bug reports on 4.13. Mate is really solid thought and very similar. Fedora is a shining example of Kaisen (constant improvement). They have a wonderful handle on it. I actually look forward to their updates for all the bug fixes and new features. (Not so with Windows, as I have to hold my breath and hope it works afterwards.) I still run new releases under a VM as you do. I typically have a identical version Fedora in a VM as my host, so I can practice various network things back and forth. -T |
#8
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/6/19 11:42 PM, Paul wrote:
T wrote: On 3/6/19 6:09 PM, Paul wrote: And I still don't believe a bit, the stories about "I gave my grandma Linux and she hasn't phoned back since". I have a few Grandmas" on Linux.Â* They still call me, but when they buy a new printer. They also often forget where the print button is in Firefox.Â*Â* "Its printing!Â* Who'd you do that?", "I pressed the print button".Â* Then I show them the print button, again.Â* (Linux's HP print support is getting pretty good as of late.Â* They should still call me first though.) I put them on Xfce and configure the toobars to look like XP.Â* And I give them desktop icons to press on.Â* They forget about five minutes after I leave that they are not running XP.Â* And they very very seldom ever call me.Â* Windows Garndma's are always calling me.Â* This makes sense if you look at IBM's help desk experience with Windows and Mac. With Linux and Mac, I seldom ever fuss with system issues.Â* It is mainly installation of things and training.Â* It is a whole different.. And explaining that their Internet is down, not them. I stated Unix with Sun OS. It hard to save anything bad about it, but just as soon as found Linux, I dropped Sun OS.Â* I think Sun's big mistake was the same as Novell's Netware.Â* Both were solid system, but they just over charged for services and left a bad taste in everyone's mouths.Â* Netware was just to stinkin' weird and difficult to maintain.Â* I did manager very well, but could not help but think they did it on purpose to charge for consulting services.Â* When NT hit, Netware was dead.Â* Sun's tech support ($300/hr back in the 90's) was extraordinary. There's a big difference between Sun and Linux. On SunOS, I could get real work done. The software, the APIs were documented. I could write a program and use a V2 library, and when the V3 library came along, it "didn't break" my program. There was backward compatibility. I'm not a programmer, and I could write networking utilities using their documentation to bootstrap myself. In addition, we designed hardware in VME Sun boxes - we did have to send a couple guys off for a few months to take a "driver writers" course, but other than that, the whole experience was quite pleasurable. When Solaris came along, the edges were a bit rougher at first. But you had Answerbook as reference material, so again, lots of documentation. With Linux, the edges are a lot rougher. Gentoo for example, is relatively decent, in that it's a "from source" kind of distro, but it has a "Manual" for new users to bootstrap from, that's pretty good. A couple weeks ago, I tried my hand at Arch, which is a "source"-like distro. I got as far as getting to a command line terminal, but it was the usual problem getting LightDM working (I *hate* Display Managers). So the experiment stopped there, as I couldn't find any documentation to sort it out. There's just no comparison between the good ole days with Sun, and what I find in Linux now. Yes, sometimes you find Linux stuff that works, but there's a lack of consistency which means every time a new release comes out, stuff that used to work could be broken again. (The lamentable situation with File Sharing being an example. Dammit, it worked *perfectly* at one point. How annoying.) Â*Â* Paul I though Sun OS was beautifully done, but too expensive to operate. Try your hand at Fedora next. I adore it. |
#9
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On Thu, 07 Mar 2019 02:42:26 -0500, Paul
wrote: T wrote: On 3/6/19 6:09 PM, Paul wrote: And I still don't believe a bit, the stories about "I gave my grandma Linux and she hasn't phoned back since". I have a few Grandmas" on Linux. They still call me, but when they buy a new printer. They also often forget where the print button is in Firefox. "Its printing! Who'd you do that?", "I pressed the print button". Then I show them the print button, again. (Linux's HP print support is getting pretty good as of late. They should still call me first though.) I put them on Xfce and configure the toobars to look like XP. And I give them desktop icons to press on. They forget about five minutes after I leave that they are not running XP. And they very very seldom ever call me. Windows Garndma's are always calling me. This makes sense if you look at IBM's help desk experience with Windows and Mac. With Linux and Mac, I seldom ever fuss with system issues. It is mainly installation of things and training. It is a whole different.. And explaining that their Internet is down, not them. I stated Unix with Sun OS. It hard to save anything bad about it, but just as soon as found Linux, I dropped Sun OS. I think Sun's big mistake was the same as Novell's Netware. Both were solid system, but they just over charged for services and left a bad taste in everyone's mouths. Netware was just to stinkin' weird and difficult to maintain. I did manager very well, but could not help but think they did it on purpose to charge for consulting services. When NT hit, Netware was dead. Sun's tech support ($300/hr back in the 90's) was extraordinary. There's a big difference between Sun and Linux. On SunOS, I could get real work done. The software, the APIs were documented. I could write a program and use a V2 library, and when the V3 library came along, it "didn't break" my program. There was backward compatibility. I'm not a programmer, and I could write networking utilities using their documentation to bootstrap myself. In addition, we designed hardware in VME Sun boxes - we did have to send a couple guys off for a few months to take a "driver writers" course, but other than that, the whole experience was quite pleasurable. When Solaris came along, the edges were a bit rougher at first. But you had Answerbook as reference material, so again, lots of documentation. With Linux, the edges are a lot rougher. Gentoo for example, is relatively decent, in that it's a "from source" kind of distro, but it has a "Manual" for new users to bootstrap from, that's pretty good. A couple weeks ago, I tried my hand at Arch, which is a "source"-like distro. I got as far as getting to a command line terminal, but it was the usual problem getting LightDM working (I *hate* Display Managers). So the experiment stopped there, as I couldn't find any documentation to sort it out. There's just no comparison between the good ole days with Sun, and what I find in Linux now. Yes, sometimes you find Linux stuff that works, but there's a lack of consistency which means every time a new release comes out, stuff that used to work could be broken again. (The lamentable situation with File Sharing being an example. Dammit, it worked *perfectly* at one point. How annoying.) Although my computer experience goes back further than that for the purpose of this discussion my experience started with Cromemco and their Cromix which in some ways was patterned on Unix. It sang and danced and was extraordinarily well documented. No problems. Then I went to the much richer world of AT&T Unix on a 3B2 system and I could do all kinds of wonderful things. Then I heard that Microsoft had this great operating system called MSDOS. When I read the manual I went Yecch! I think Cromix and Unix were almost the most enjoyable years of my computing experience. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#10
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/6/19 11:42 PM, Paul wrote:
Â*Dammit, itÂ*worked *perfectly*Â*atÂ*oneÂ*point.Â*HowÂ*annoying You sound like a Dot Net programmer! :-) Why is it again I need 300,386 different versions of Dot Net installed anyway? |
#11
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
"T" wrote
|Why is it again I need 300,386 different versions of Dot Net installed anyway? | The VC runtime is smaller, but probably much worse in terms of numbers. Programs are rigged to require the exact compile of a 10-15 MB runtime that they were written with. On XP I have 3 versions of the VC2005 runtime, 3 for 2008, along with 6 hotfixes, one for VC2010 and one for VC 2012. And I don't actually install much software. On the bright side, I could fit 50-100 of those in the space that the .Net slop takes up, and I don't even have the latest and bloatedest of those. But software on Windows works. Most doesn't require lots of extra support libraries that are not part of the install. And it won't be outdated in a year. I can write software that runs on Win98-Win10 without needing extra support libraries. How many of your programs in the latest Fedora will even run on 3-year-old Fedora, much less 15-year-old Red Hat? And how many 3-year-old programs will run on the latest version? In my experience, even updating the stuff that comes on the CD requires updating vast numbers of system libraries. That's why Windows is everywhere. They catered to businesses, made programming relatively easy, and made backward compatibility a religion. I'm using an 18 year old OS and most current software runs fine on it. And there's lots of software. The only way for Linux to look good is the extremely low expectations you have: You test in a VM, put up with lots of broken updates, and don't expect backward compatibility. For that matter, you don't even expect a good variety of software. Behind almost every Linux or Apple fan is a Windows box that they use "when they need to do work". Yes, you can set up a Grandma as long as you show her how to do web browsing and email. My very elderly father used to use a Linux kiosk-type system for the elderly, called Wow. It was a very limited, giant tablet with no access to the file system. People could also use an iPad. But having a good desktop that can be used for years without having to update, and with all the software you want available.... that's not going to happen. If only it was worth it for some charitable foundation to make it work, then there could be hope. If people decided that the public needs a good, unfettered, non-commercial, standardized system then Windows could be dropped. But the closest to that so far was Shuttleworth, who ended up shipping adware. Linux started with an idea something like that, but it was only geeks making an OS for geeks. The only real solution would be create an organization so big and connected that everyone would see it as worthwhile to invest their time and programming in that one system, which would then be universal. Sort of like what HTML is now, despite attempts by the likes of AOL, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and Adobe to usurp the Internet. What's more likely to happen is that some pseudo- philanthropist like Bill Gates will decide to save the world with his brilliance and offer to create a free spyware product. Then we'll all be distracted discussing whether the Gatesmobile OS, or the Getty Foundation OS, is going to be the next big thing, until it finally isn't. (I just read the other day that Bill Gates, after having ceremoniously given away much of his wealth, is currently worth $96B. $6B more than last year. I guess generosity is good work if you can get it.) |
#12
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
T wrote:
On 3/6/19 11:42 PM, Paul wrote: Dammit, it worked *perfectly* at one point. How annoying You sound like a Dot Net programmer! :-) Why is it again I need 300,386 different versions of Dot Net installed anyway? Simple. The versions stopped being useful after 3.5. But if you put 4.7 in the latest Visual Studio, the developer is clueless and compiles in a 4.7 dependency, a WinXP user can't install 4.7, and the WinXP user will be "too bad, so sad" and will immediately run out and buy a Win10 computer :-/ Or so I'm told. Up to a certain number, they were "layers in a cake". Later, versioning was used to deprecate (stick a fork in) older OSes. Everything above 3.5 is "imaginary", like "Sparkle Ponies", and is there just to rubbish the older OSes. (So you can't use Vista say.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework ******* Java has a stack too, yet you don't see versioning being waved around like a club. Java uses its numbers for versions, and obviously at some point, older stuff falls out of support. But they don't use version numbers with quite as much glee as Microsoft does. https://i.stack.imgur.com/T2QZK.png ******* As for Mayayanas mention of VSRuntimes, I had a kooky experience the other day. I tried to run the latest Intel Processor Identification Utility. 1) Try to install 2) Wants .NET 4.7 or whatever. Great. Doesn't have it onboard. And the user is expected to Google ass off to find it. 3) Go back and try and install again. Wants VS Runtime of some year, leaving the user to puzzle out exactly which download that would be, and whether both the x86 and x64 need to be installed. 4) Try to install again. Finally, installs. 5) Run program. Prints three or four numbers on the screen. The kind of stuff you could get with "two Peeks()" :-) The C program to do that would be about ten lines long. The problem ? You'd have to run as Administrator. Just... awful... What were they thinking ? Why does software have to be *that* bad, exactly ? Is this a skill they could teach in a university, or what ? Paul |
#13
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On Thu, 07 Mar 2019 02:42:26 -0500, Paul wrote:
T wrote: On 3/6/19 6:09 PM, Paul wrote: And I still don't believe a bit, the stories about "I gave my grandma Linux and she hasn't phoned back since". I have a few Grandmas" on Linux. They still call me, but when they buy a new printer. They also often forget where the print button is in Firefox. "Its printing! Who'd you do that?", "I pressed the print button". Then I show them the print button, again. (Linux's HP print support is getting pretty good as of late. They should still call me first though.) I put them on Xfce and configure the toobars to look like XP. And I snippped Paul, kowlegeable guy that you are, you seem to have overlooked the wishes and desires of the typical 'grandma'. She doesn't want to setup network connections (if they are needed the helpful relatives would have done that for her), she also wont be installing virtualbox, or any software that requires downloading. Should she ever need a piece of software available in the software manager, she can do it with one mouse click without a reboot. She will not need to enter terminal mode. Ah, the wonderful reboot, no need to worry about that in windows, windows will do it whether you want it or not. Personally, I would recommend the Mint version of Linux. Now before this reply generates a bunch of responses or heaven forbid, wakes up GoodGuy, let me add I know Linux is not for everyone. Some people have work restrictions and/or need specific windows only programs. But the old argument that Linux is hard to use just won't wash with a distribution like Mint or Ubuntu and Mint comes with just about any program you might normally need. For those slightly (but only just slightly) a little more adventurous than poor old grandma, virtualbox running windows 7 is great for people like me who have a very occasional program needing windows - Intuit willmaker in my case. Not quicken, use Gnucash and it will import all your quicken stuff. The helpful relative can do this for grandma. End of rant! |
#14
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/7/19 8:57 AM, dave61430 wrote:
On Thu, 07 Mar 2019 02:42:26 -0500, Paul wrote: T wrote: On 3/6/19 6:09 PM, Paul wrote: And I still don't believe a bit, the stories about "I gave my grandma Linux and she hasn't phoned back since". I have a few Grandmas" on Linux. They still call me, but when they buy a new printer. They also often forget where the print button is in Firefox. "Its printing! Who'd you do that?", "I pressed the print button". Then I show them the print button, again. (Linux's HP print support is getting pretty good as of late. They should still call me first though.) I put them on Xfce and configure the toobars to look like XP. And I snippped Paul, kowlegeable guy that you are, you seem to have overlooked the wishes and desires of the typical 'grandma'. She doesn't want to setup network connections (if they are needed the helpful relatives would have done that for her), she also wont be installing virtualbox, or any software that requires downloading. Should she ever need a piece of software available in the software manager, she can do it with one mouse click without a reboot. She will not need to enter terminal mode. Ah, the wonderful reboot, no need to worry about that in windows, windows will do it whether you want it or not. Personally, I would recommend the Mint version of Linux. Now before this reply generates a bunch of responses or heaven forbid, wakes up GoodGuy, let me add I know Linux is not for everyone. Some people have work restrictions and/or need specific windows only programs. But the old argument that Linux is hard to use just won't wash with a distribution like Mint or Ubuntu and Mint comes with just about any program you might normally need. For those slightly (but only just slightly) a little more adventurous than poor old grandma, virtualbox running windows 7 is great for people like me who have a very occasional program needing windows - Intuit willmaker in my case. Not quicken, use Gnucash and it will import all your quicken stuff. The helpful relative can do this for grandma. End of rant! I have found Linux's various desktops as easy to use as Windows 7 and a lot easier to use than Windows 10 for a long time now. As for granny, set up Mate or Xfce to look like XP and make sure she can print, surf, and do her eMail. The only draw back to Linux is the lack off applications. Brave and Firefox both work under Linux very nicely. Brave is faster, but lacks pop up support. Firefox has a lot a nice developers tools of which granny's could care less. |
#15
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
Paul wrote:
And I still don't believe a bit, the stories about "I gave my grandma Linux and she hasn't phoned back since". Well for the folks that I have installed Ubuntu, a number of which needed to ditch obsoleted XP, I received far fewer questions then when they had Windows. Also some that could barely operate Windows, installing-an-application-is-a-run-to-Geek-Squad level of expertise, did LTS upgrades by themselves. Basically the only issues I have had with them post initial install is when then buy a printer and I have to inform them to throw away the accompanying disk. Well, in all fairness if they get a new AIO Brothers or HP I get a call where Brothers uses a script to install their driver and HP needs a upgrade to distro version of the hplip toolbox to support the newer units. I have 15 years of Unix experience, and I'm still wasting hours with the rough edges of Linux. Which includes, making a network connection work on a new install (because it's broken for my Intel NIC), when I can't get a web browser to connect to the Internet so I can look up stuff. Really? Not had issues with Intel, but older Broadcom chipset, and then only in the 2012-ish versions and with a couple of version chipsets. Between Network Manager and SystemD adding no value to the experience, all I get is more broken NICs for my trouble. The network actually worked at one time, and there were fewer things to go wrong. Once and a dog's age Network Manager can go AWOL when dealing with WiFi network with issues, but far less than I have experience with Windows and WiFi f-ups. In fact I find just about everything involving networking more dependable than Windows. Hell I have found Linux does Windows sharing better than Windows does Windows sharing with other Windows systems! -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com |
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