Can Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint & with fonts?

Neil wrote:

None of this really matters. Adobe Illustrator is a vector-based
graphics program, while PowerPoint "collects" files in various formats
to assemble them into a presentation. They're completely different in
almost every regard, so compatibility would be both unlikely and
unnecessary. Having used both programs for decades (since their
creation, in fact), I'd say that even wanting to do such a thing is
rather curious and misguided.


Straight printing. Those people like four color separation, as
it suits the printing equipment. Those people go gaga if you don't
feed them the right kind of file.

http://samcoprinters.com/blog/4-colo...cess-printing/

It really helps to understand the output device choice and how
it works. This first article, I don't understand the process yet.
There is a "CutContour" and there are colors. I still don't
understand what vinyl printing is. I'm unlikely to submit
work in the required format, or I will be costing the operator
hours of unnecessary preprep work, with a good possibility the
output will be completely wrong. Nobody wins when that happens.

https://www.rolanddga.com/blog/2016/...cut-production

"Color Mode

It's always best to work on digital print projects in the
RGB color mode, rather than CMYK. Your digital printer is capable
of printing a much larger gamut of colors than that available
in the CMYK mode..."

Which isn't the same advice the offset printer guy would be giving you.

Then, as we see more examples of output, it suggests a process.
Printing of solid colors on something, followed by cutting an
output profile around the material. So it can be peeled off as
a decal.

https://www.rolanddga.com/blog/categ...inters-cutters

A person seeking the services of a "print person", will receive
quite good advice about acceptable formats for content.

PDF has this capability, but something has to drive it.

https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/usin...-profiles.html

Maybe you could "fake" a CutContour by using a particular color
that doesn't appear elsewhere in the artwork. Dunno.

How does PowerPoint handle color ? Is it capable of generating
the metadata needed for the print, metadata the print operator
is going to need ? This is why a lot of people will associate
a particular tool with "producing the input I need in the right
format". As some tools have color handling and others don't.
I'm sure there are shop operators who will giggle or kick you
out of the shop, if you bring in pptx.

You might order up a red Stop Sign with your PowerPoint
content, but it could be blood red or burnt sienna and
if you don't control the color precisely, then you'll
basically just accept whatever color comes (randomly)
out of the printer. When you control the color process
end to end (use a Spyder on the printer output to develop
a profile say), then you have enough control that the
printed object that comes back, is "within a tone" of
what your saw on the LCD screen on your computer.

Print operators become good at explaining this to people,
because in the end, it causes fewer arguments about
who pays for spoiled materials. It's much cheaper for
the operator, to make sure the customer does the three
hours of pre-prep.

*******

As an example of an "output expert", in my business, a
gentleman offers to come to your work, and train a
roomful of engineers for two hours, on what happens
in the whole process he will be providing, so the
quality of incoming materials to his business is better.
And he does the course for free. All he asks, is that
the room be full before he starts. He doesn't want
to give the lecture 30 times, to train 30 people total.

And when he "adjusts" your file, and you can't figure
out why seemingly some engineering parameters have
been changed behind your back, that two hour lecture
covers what he's been doing. He doesn't hide anything.
But you have to understand what his industry and ethos,
how they work, so you don't bump heads. Then you can
"out-guess" the dude, and make sure what you're doing
has sufficient margin that he can't ruin it.

On PCB technology, for example, people informally can tell
you some "minimum dimensions" to use on objects to
be etched, so that "low tech" facilities cannot
possibly ruin them. A facility with a "high tech" rating,
can produce output which has features only 30% of the
"duffer" category of shop. If I had a PCB with 3 mil
clearance between tracks on a wide bus, I probably
wouldn't be giving the business to that guy who
gave the lecture. He'd re-plot my file and short
the wires together.

*******

Summary: Talk to your print person.
Not to some guys on USENET.

The best results come from understanding
how the printer works. And what the "proper"
workflow is. An operator can "bend over backwards"
to accommodate "stupid input", but the spoiled
work produced, will mean no repeat business, and
two unhappy people.

Paul

In message , Frank Slootweg
writes:
Ragnusen Ultred wrote:
[...]
I'm limited by what formats with fonts Adobe Illustrator will accept.
DOC, PDF, RTF, GIF, TIF, etc., are accepted, but not PowerPoint.

I'm a total noob on this (see my other response), but wouldn't it be
trivial to save the *visible* respresentation which you have - i.e. the
PPT 'slide' on your display - to GIF or TIF (or PDF)?

[...]

Those are not equivalent. GIF and TIF are raster (or pixel) formats; you
can use sufficient pixels that the result is acceptable (at the expense
of big or even huge files), but it isn't the same thing. A PDF, with
TrueType (or similar technology) fonts, can be zoomed in on indefinitely
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"The wish of the lazy to allow unsupervised access [to the internet] to their
children should not reduce all adults browsing to the level of suitability for
a
five-year-old." Yaman Akdeniz, quoted in Inter//face (The Times, 1999-2-10):
p12

On 29 Mar 2018 18:19:06 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Ragnusen Ultred wrote:
[...]
I'm limited by what formats with fonts Adobe Illustrator will accept.
DOC, PDF, RTF, GIF, TIF, etc., are accepted, but not PowerPoint.

I'm a total noob on this (see my other response), but wouldn't it be
trivial to save the *visible* respresentation which you have - i.e. the
PPT 'slide' on your display - to GIF or TIF (or PDF)?

Or use the Windows snipping tool?

--
Faster, cheaper, quieter than HS2
and built in 5 years;
UKUltraspeed http://www.500kmh.com/

On 3/29/2018 3:06 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Frank Slootweg
writes:
RagnusenÂ* Ultred wrote:
[...]
I'm limited by what formats with fonts Adobe Illustrator will accept.
DOC, PDF, RTF, GIF, TIF, etc., are accepted, but not PowerPoint.

I'm a total noob on this (see my other response), but wouldn't it be
trivial to save the *visible* respresentation which you have - i.e. the
PPT 'slide' on your display - to GIF or TIF (or PDF)?

[...]

Those are not equivalent. GIF and TIF are raster (or pixel) formats; you
can use sufficient pixels that the result is acceptable (at the expense
of big or even huge files), but it isn't the same thing. A PDF, with
TrueType (or similar technology) fonts, can be zoomed in on indefinitely

The only time this is true is when the PDF doesn't contain any raster
graphics. When it does, the same resolution restrictions apply as with
other bitmap formats. Since signage typically has raster images in
addition to text, using the PDF format will have its limitations.

--
best regards,

Neil

On 3/29/2018 2:31 PM, Paul wrote:
Neil wrote:

None of this really matters. Adobe Illustrator is a vector-based
graphics program, while PowerPoint "collects" files in various formats
to assemble them into a presentation. They're completely different in
almost every regard, so compatibility would be both unlikely and
unnecessary. Having used both programs for decades (since their
creation, in fact), I'd say that even wanting to do such a thing is
rather curious and misguided.


Straight printing. Those people like four color separation, as
it suits the printing equipment. Those people go gaga if you don't
feed them the right kind of file.

http://samcoprinters.com/blog/4-colo...cess-printing/

There are many misconceptions about process printing, and this is
another one. Using compliant PostScript devices, one can use a number of
formats, including RGB, CMYK and CMYK + any number of spot colors.

Â*Â* "Color Mode

Â*Â*Â* It's always best to work on digital print projects in the
Â*Â*Â* RGB color mode, rather than CMYK. Your digital printer is capable
Â*Â*Â* of printing a much larger gamut of colors than that available
Â*Â*Â* in the CMYK mode..."

Which isn't the same advice the offset printer guy would be giving you.

For good reason. The color gamuts of RGB and CMYK have differences.
There are colors in each that can't be reproduced in the other.
Professionals know this, and it is one reason why RGB inkjet printers
often include additional inks such as light cyan, light magenta, etc. It
is also why offset printers sometimes use spot color inks in addition to
the CMYK.

A person seeking the services of a "print person", will receive
quite good advice about acceptable formats for content.

In fact, that's where a professional graphic artist will start. It's
clear to me that this is not a discussion generated by or among graphics
professionals.

PDF has this capability, but something has to drive it.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. This isn't a PDF issue as much as it
is a processing issue.

https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/usin...-profiles.html

Maybe you could "fake" a CutContour by using a particular color
that doesn't appear elsewhere in the artwork. Dunno.

Many sign producers have used CorelDraw for decades because the
manufacturers of the vinyl/screen/sign printing machines have modified
the equipment and software to include a cutting path which can be
defined in that combination.

The options being considered in this discussion only emphasize the lack
of experience in this field.

--
best regards,

Neil

Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 16:38:30 -0400, schrieb Neil:

The only time this is true is when the PDF doesn't contain any raster
graphics. When it does, the same resolution restrictions apply as with
other bitmap formats. Since signage typically has raster images in
addition to text, using the PDF format will have its limitations.

While the technical difference between "raster" and "vector" graphics is
appreciated, it's sort of like a discussion of gravitational waves knocking
the teacup off the table.

At the size of a typical 18"x24" road sign, with 2-inch letters (which is
the legal requirement), the borders (which all road signs have) are not
jagged in the least.

Here's a zoomed in example, of the small letter "e", in a quick experiment
that I ran today by saving the PowerPoint to PDF with the truetype font
embedded and with the truetype font converted to curves (which is an option
inside of PowerPoint).
http://i.cubeupload.com/3Zbidh.gif

Unless someone who knows can correct me, printing to vinyl, at the size of
two inch letters and half-inch thick borders that are typical of road
signs, isn't the whole "raster versus vector" issue a red herring?

Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 20:21:51 +0000 (GMT), schrieb Rodney Pont:

I'm a total noob on this (see my other response), but wouldn't it be
trivial to save the *visible* respresentation which you have - i.e. the
PPT 'slide' on your display - to GIF or TIF (or PDF)?

Or use the Windows snipping tool?

I should point out that the output format from PowerPoint can be anything
(e.g., GIF, JPEG, PDF, etc.), where the question is what is the best format
for *direct* import into Adobe Illustrator.
https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/...lustrator.html

I'm not sure what's the *best* format for *direct* import into Adobe
Illustrator, when the design is a simple 24"x18" road sign with 2-inch
letters, which looks much like any sign would such as this classic "no
parking" sign (were you may notice the borders and fonts).
http://www.safetysign.com/images/sou...ages/T5395.png

What's a bit confusing to me on that Adobe Illustrator page are the types:
a. File formats supported for opening
b. File formats supported for placing
c. File formats supported for saving
d. File formats supported for exporting
e. File formats supported for saving for web
f. File formats supported for saving for screens

Where what it seems to need are two things that aren't there explicitly:
- File formats supported for importing, and,
- File formats supported for printing.

In message , Ragnusen Ultred
writes:
Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 16:38:30 -0400, schrieb Neil:

The only time this is true is when the PDF doesn't contain any raster
graphics. When it does, the same resolution restrictions apply as with
other bitmap formats. Since signage typically has raster images in
addition to text, using the PDF format will have its limitations.

If the signage includes a raster image, then whatever format is used,
that image will have pixels. They may be too small to be visible, but
the format won't change the principle/

While the technical difference between "raster" and "vector" graphics is
appreciated, it's sort of like a discussion of gravitational waves knocking
the teacup off the table.

At the size of a typical 18"x24" road sign, with 2-inch letters (which is
the legal requirement), the borders (which all road signs have) are not
jagged in the least.

1. I don't think the OP said anything about what size sign is involved.
2. The size doesn't determine whether jagged or not - that's determined
by the resolution.
[]
Unless someone who knows can correct me, printing to vinyl, at the size of
two inch letters and half-inch thick borders that are typical of road
signs, isn't the whole "raster versus vector" issue a red herring?

Probably (as evidenced by the OP saying that the signmaker was accepting
some raster-format input [I forget which). However, in the interests of
what some call "tribal knowledge" (I prefer some other term as I don't
wish to keep it within a "tribe" - how about "wider understanding"), I
thought the distinction between raster and vector was worth mentioning -
especially as someone had said (something like) "why don't you just use
GIF, TIF, or PDF" - in a way that suggested that person thought these
were equivalent and translatable-between, which of course they aren't.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Radio 4 is the civilising influence in this country ... I think it is the most
important institution in this country. - John Humphrys, Radio Times
7-13/06/2003

Am 29 Mar 2018 18:12:30 GMT, schrieb Frank Slootweg:

It may not be relevant [1], but note that Jonathan said "export as
PDF", not "save to PDF". That may sound as nitpicking, but - for example
- LibreOffice Impress, i.e. their PowerPoint-like component, indeed also
has 'Export as PDF', not 'Save As ... PDF'.

HTH.

[1] I hardly know anything about PowerPoint/Impress and even less about
Adobe Illustrator, so take this with a insert_your_standard_for_weights
of salt.

You bring up a good point, Frank, in that I had already noticed a *huge*
difference in the options of the two (actually three) PDF-creation commands
from PowerPoint 2007, at least with the "SaveAsPDFandXPS.exe" addon
installed.

a. Office icon Print (choose driver, e.g., "Microsoft Print to PDF")
b. Office icon Save As PDF or XPS
c. Office icon Save As Save as Type PDF == this has the most options

I did not see an "Export" option in Office 2007 though.

Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 14:31:51 -0400, schrieb Paul:

How does PowerPoint handle color ?

The color is a good question, which I had not mentioned, where, in this
case, it's a single-color sign (black and white) where the amount or
intensity of the black isn't an issue.

The rasterization versus vectorization also isn't an issue at these sizes,
which are 18"x24" typical of standard no-parking road sign types.

It has text, and a border graphic.
Nothing fancy.

The question is simply what format is best for Adobe Illustrator to just
suck in directly, with no work involved (if possible). They will print it
from Adobe Illustrator to vinyl, and then lay the sheet of vinyl on the
sign and manually peel off the excess vinyl, as I understand the process.

They tell me they can accept anything but I'm trying to reduce the layout
expense - which is the main reason for asking the simple question of what
formats from PowerPoint *directly* can be read into Adobe Illustrator for
the least amount of work on their part.

Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 16:54:54 -0400, schrieb Neil:

The options being considered in this discussion only emphasize the lack
of experience in this field.

This is true, but it's also true that this is a low-tech question, where
the sign is only borders and fonts typical of most no-parking style road
signs, and the color is black and white, and the size is two-inch letters,
so most of the highly technical issues about rasterization and CMYK don't
really apply.

They apply, but they don't matter for the application.
http://guide.saferoutesinfo.org/engi...o_parking1.jpg

The only thing that matters is that the shop simply tells me they'll take
anything I give them, which is fair on their part.

But I want to give them something that has the least amount of expense in
setup for them, given that I can't change the format that is the starting
point, which is PowerPoint with the TrueType embedded fonts.

So the only question is what format can PowerPoint be converted to on
Windows that will result in an "import" into Adobe Illustrator with the
absolute least amount of setup time?

Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 23:12:33 +0100, schrieb J. P. Gilliver (John):

Probably (as evidenced by the OP saying that the signmaker was accepting
some raster-format input [I forget which). However, in the interests of
what some call "tribal knowledge" (I prefer some other term as I don't
wish to keep it within a "tribe" - how about "wider understanding"), I
thought the distinction between raster and vector was worth mentioning -
especially as someone had said (something like) "why don't you just use
GIF, TIF, or PDF" - in a way that suggested that person thought these
were equivalent and translatable-between, which of course they aren't.

I agree totally with your view. This raster/vector distinction is often
important which is why the /best/ format under the circumstances is what
the question is.

So we want the /best/ format we can get directly out of MS Powerpoint.

Starting with powerpoint on Windows, and knowing that the output is a black
and white 24x18 sign of the type that most no parking signs are (i.e., text
and borders) and knowing that the shop will accept anything but will be
using Adobe Illustrator, the question is just what output from PowerPoint
is the least expensive in terms of man hours of input into Adobe
Illustrator.

In message , Ragnusen Ultred
writes:
[]
The color is a good question, which I had not mentioned, where, in this
case, it's a single-color sign (black and white) where the amount or
intensity of the black isn't an issue.

The rasterization versus vectorization also isn't an issue at these sizes,
which are 18"x24" typical of standard no-parking road sign types.

It has text, and a border graphic. Nothing fancy.

The question is simply what format is best for Adobe Illustrator to just
suck in directly, with no work involved (if possible). They will print it
from Adobe Illustrator to vinyl, and then lay the sheet of vinyl on the
sign and manually peel off the excess vinyl, as I understand the process.

Though it offends my engineering sensibilities, given the above context
- quite small, limited number of colours - I suspect a (high enough
resolution) raster format would involve the least amount of processing
for them: I assume, since they have told you they'll take anything
(except native powerpoint), and have already accepted a raster-format as
a backup message, that they have an edge-detection to cutter-driver
software. And if you're going for a raster format, there's little to
choose between them: BMP would need least processing to get to the
bitmap as it's basically raw image data anyway; GIF and TIF would make
for smaller files but otherwise be more or less identical. I'd avoid
JPEG because it is a lossy compression, and the artefacts are
particularly evident around edges.

They tell me they can accept anything but I'm trying to reduce the layout
expense - which is the main reason for asking the simple question of what
formats from PowerPoint *directly* can be read into Adobe Illustrator for
the least amount of work on their part.

I don't know what formats PPT can output in - quite possibly _not_ BMP,
GIF, or TIF. More or less anything that can "print" can produce PDF,
since you can use a PDF "printer", such as pdf995 (the one I use) or one
of many others - though I think recent versions of Office include a .pdf
generator anyway. (The odd time I've tried to use it, I've found it more
complicated than just "printing" to pdf995, but that could just be my
lack of familiarity with Office's PDF output format.) And the conversion
from PDF to cutter-driver _might_ involve less processing.

Will they send back a "proof" of some sort, showing what their
cutter-driver output will look like, for you to see?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

" ... but ... on the sub-ether radio, [it said] you're dead!"
"Yeah, that's right, I just haven't stopped moving yet." (link episode)

On 3/29/2018 5:57 PM, Ragnusen Ultred wrote:
Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 16:38:30 -0400, schrieb Neil:

The only time this is true is when the PDF doesn't contain any raster
graphics. When it does, the same resolution restrictions apply as with
other bitmap formats. Since signage typically has raster images in
addition to text, using the PDF format will have its limitations.

While the technical difference between "raster" and "vector" graphics is
appreciated, it's sort of like a discussion of gravitational waves knocking
the teacup off the table.

At the size of a typical 18"x24" road sign, with 2-inch letters (which is
the legal requirement), the borders (which all road signs have) are not
jagged in the least.

Here's a zoomed in example, of the small letter "e", in a quick experiment
that I ran today by saving the PowerPoint to PDF with the truetype font
embedded and with the truetype font converted to curves (which is an option
inside of PowerPoint).
http://i.cubeupload.com/3Zbidh.gif

Unless someone who knows can correct me, printing to vinyl, at the size of
two inch letters and half-inch thick borders that are typical of road
signs, isn't the whole "raster versus vector" issue a red herring?

To be clear, I didn't say that raster versus vector would be relevant to
what you are attempting to do. Small road signs like yours that are
viewed from a distance that would make it possible to use a number of
programs to generate adequate images. However, that does not negate the
point I was making about bitmap resolution and file formats.

--
best regards,

Neil

On 3/29/2018 6:29 PM, Ragnusen Ultred wrote:

So the only question is what format can PowerPoint be converted to on
Windows that will result in an "import" into Adobe Illustrator with the
absolute least amount of setup time?

I understand your interest in minimizing the effort required by your
printing company. As I pointed out a number of times, a properly
generated PDF file will not need to be imported into anything for
output, especially since your needs don't include specialized shapes.

So, the right tool to use is a good PDF creator, and since Adobe
created, defined and manages the PDF format, I've always used their
products for that purpose.

--
best regards,

Neil