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Do all remote-desktop utilities use/need a remote server?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 26th 21, 05:10 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 603
Default Do all remote-desktop utilities use/need a remote server?

Looking at (free) alternatives to TeamViewer. So far have found Distant
Desktop (10-11 MB, just runs), AnyDesk Free (~3.7 MB, runs), NoMachine
(34 MB!, installs), and others.

Do they _all_ require access to a remote server, *including for initial
setup of the connection*, or do any of them work entirely standalone?
(I'm not talking of machines on the same LAN, but helping a friend
hundreds of miles away [with no VPN or similar].)

Presumably if they need a remote server, even if only to start the
connection, the free versions could stop working at any time. (And the
commercial ones, of course, but they're mostly only limited-time anyway
unless you keep paying, i. e. they're monthly [in some cases yearly
really] not outright.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to recognize a mistake when
you make it again. -Franklin P. Jones
Ads
  #2  
Old April 26th 21, 06:08 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
R.Wieser
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,302
Default Do all remote-desktop utilities use/need a remote server?

Posted to xp only, as aioe has forbiden crossposts to the others ...

John,

Do they _all_ require access to a remote server, *including for initial
setup of the connection*, or do any of them work entirely standalone?


*Ofcourse* there are versions that are fully stand-alone. :-) RealVNC
(payed, can do both) and TightVNC (free) are two of them.

The "problem" is that a direct (P2P) connection needs extra work, as you
have to configure the firewall to forward connections to a specific port of
the 'puter that wants to share its desktop. Having a(n initial connect)
server bypasses that (both 'puters connect outwards, and thru the server one
of them invites the other in).

Regards,
Rudy Wieser



  #3  
Old April 26th 21, 08:18 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 603
Default Do all remote-desktop utilities use/need a remote server?

On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 at 19:08:55, R.Wieser wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
Posted to xp only, as aioe has forbiden crossposts to the others ...


(How peculiar! Does it just not like those 'groups, or just not like
crossposting [or to more than two]? Anyway, not this.)

John,

Do they _all_ require access to a remote server, *including for initial
setup of the connection*, or do any of them work entirely standalone?


*Ofcourse* there are versions that are fully stand-alone. :-) RealVNC
(payed, can do both) and TightVNC (free) are two of them.

The "problem" is that a direct (P2P) connection needs extra work, as you
have to configure the firewall to forward connections to a specific port of
the 'puter that wants to share its desktop. Having a(n initial connect)
server bypasses that (both 'puters connect outwards, and thru the server one
of them invites the other in).


Thanks. I'll probably stick with the proprietaries, then, as the people
I help might have difficulty with complicated procedures described over
the 'phone (two of them are blind and a third is 82). Though if the
initial steps could be made a batch file, that might be possible.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser




--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

… too popular actually to be any good. - Alison Graham in Radio Times 2-8
February 2013
  #4  
Old April 26th 21, 08:49 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
R.Wieser
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,302
Default Do all remote-desktop utilities use/need a remote server?

John,

Posted to xp only, as aioe has forbiden crossposts to the others ...


(How peculiar! Does it just not like those 'groups, or just not like
crossposting [or to more than two]? Anyway, not this.)


Some time ago there was a crosspost sh*t-storm, origionating from AIOE. If
we're lucky here the block is only temporary.

Thanks. I'll probably stick with the proprietaries, then, as the people I
help might have difficulty with complicated procedures described over the
'phone


Its even worse : as there are quite a few differen modems there isn't a
single description which will allow you to add that port-forwarding.

Though if the initial steps could be made a batch file, that might be
possible


So no, no such luck. :-\

There is another possibility though : a reverse connection (the server
connects to the client instead of the other way around), meaning that you,
having the client, would need to do the port-forwarding on your modem

One thing though : I have no idea if either Real- or TightVNC has it, or if
there is even a single client-server combination which offers it. I think
its worth to check though.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


  #5  
Old April 26th 21, 09:07 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Zaidy036[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Do all remote-desktop utilities use/need a remote server?

On 4/26/2021 3:18 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 at 19:08:55, R.Wieser wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
Posted to xp only, as aioe has forbiden crossposts to the others ...


(How peculiar! Does it just not like those 'groups, or just not like
crossposting [or to more than two]? Anyway, not this.)

John,

Do they _all_ require access to a remote server, *including for initial
setup of the connection*, or do any of them work entirely standalone?


*Ofcourse* there are versions that are fully stand-alone.* :-)** RealVNC
(payed, can do both) and TightVNC (free) are two of them.

The "problem" is that a direct (P2P) connection needs extra work, as you
have to configure the firewall to forward connections to a specific
port of
the 'puter that wants to share its desktop.*** Having a(n initial
connect)
server bypasses that (both 'puters connect outwards, and thru the
server one
of them invites the other in).


Thanks. I'll probably stick with the proprietaries, then, as the people
I help might have difficulty with complicated procedures described over
the 'phone (two of them are blind and a third is 82). Though if the
initial steps could be made a batch file, that might be possible.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser




VNC Server is another choice which works from iPad to Windows PC
https://www.realvnc.com/en/connect/download/vnc/
  #6  
Old April 27th 21, 10:59 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Philip Herlihy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 208
Default Do all remote-desktop utilities use/need a remote server?

In article , says...

Looking at (free) alternatives to TeamViewer. So far have found Distant
Desktop (10-11 MB, just runs), AnyDesk Free (~3.7 MB, runs), NoMachine
(34 MB!, installs), and others.

Do they _all_ require access to a remote server, *including for initial
setup of the connection*, or do any of them work entirely standalone?
(I'm not talking of machines on the same LAN, but helping a friend
hundreds of miles away [with no VPN or similar].)

Presumably if they need a remote server, even if only to start the
connection, the free versions could stop working at any time. (And the
commercial ones, of course, but they're mostly only limited-time anyway
unless you keep paying, i. e. they're monthly [in some cases yearly
really] not outright.)


The reason these solutions use an intermediate server is because firewalls
normally block incoming connections - with a server, both ends make outgoing
connections.

If you want to be able to connect to remote machines without user intervention
at the far end (so you can't simply use Quick Assist, which is built-in) then
you need to open a port at the far end. In the case of VNC (e.g free UVNC) the
port is 5900, but you can normally get a router to translate an arbitrary (less
obvious) port on the fly when you set up the routing. If you could get someone
(anyone) at the far end to set up a Quick Assist connection, you can connect to
their router and set up the port forwarding, and install the UVNC server needed
on their machine.

An alternative is to open port 5500 at your end, and get them to open a new
'client' connection (to your 'listening' client). That can be done with a
clickable cmd file. But, like Quick Assist, that does require user action at
the far end.

--

Phil, London
  #7  
Old April 27th 21, 01:45 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 603
Default Do all remote-desktop utilities use/need a remote server?

On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 at 10:59:46, Philip Herlihy
wrote (my responses usually follow points
raised):
In article , says...

Looking at (free) alternatives to TeamViewer. So far have found Distant
Desktop (10-11 MB, just runs), AnyDesk Free (~3.7 MB, runs), NoMachine
(34 MB!, installs), and others.

Do they _all_ require access to a remote server, *including for initial
setup of the connection*, or do any of them work entirely standalone?
(I'm not talking of machines on the same LAN, but helping a friend
hundreds of miles away [with no VPN or similar].)

Presumably if they need a remote server, even if only to start the
connection, the free versions could stop working at any time. (And the
commercial ones, of course, but they're mostly only limited-time anyway
unless you keep paying, i. e. they're monthly [in some cases yearly
really] not outright.)


The reason these solutions use an intermediate server is because firewalls
normally block incoming connections - with a server, both ends make outgoing
connections.

If you want to be able to connect to remote machines without user intervention
at the far end (so you can't simply use Quick Assist, which is built-in) then


(to 7, or only recent 10?)

you need to open a port at the far end. In the case of VNC (e.g free
UVNC) the
port is 5900, but you can normally get a router to translate an
arbitrary (less
obvious) port on the fly when you set up the routing. If you could get
someone
(anyone) at the far end to set up a Quick Assist connection, you can
connect to
their router and set up the port forwarding, and install the UVNC
server needed
on their machine.

An alternative is to open port 5500 at your end, and get them to open a new
'client' connection (to your 'listening' client). That can be done with a
clickable cmd file. But, like Quick Assist, that does require user action at
the far end.

Thanks. All noted - I might experiment next time I'm at my friends' (324
miles from me, but I'm hoping to be able to visit them soon [without
defining a very long thin "bubble"!]). Though as there are about half a
dozen free such utilities, I'll _probably_ not - though I imagine there
could arise a situation (malware, legislation, etc.) where they all stop
working at once (or at least within a short time of each other).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Eve had an Apple, Adam had a Wang...
  #8  
Old April 27th 21, 05:07 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Andy Burns[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default Do all remote-desktop utilities use/need a remote server?


J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Philip Herlihy wrote:

If you want to be able to connect to remote machines without user
intervention
at the far end (so you can't simply use Quick Assist, which is
built-in) then


(to 7, or only recent 10?)


QuickAssist is Win10 only, at both ends, handy though as it's built-in.

install the UVNC server needed on their machine.
An alternative is to open port 5500 at your end


That's what I do, easier for me to deal with portforwarding on my router
and I have fixed IP addresses available, so I just have to talk
friends/relatives through installing VNC at their end, and making the
reverse connection to me.
  #9  
Old April 27th 21, 05:27 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Philip Herlihy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 208
Default Do all remote-desktop utilities use/need a remote server?

In article , says...


If you want to be able to connect to remote machines without user intervention
at the far end (so you can't simply use Quick Assist, which is built-in) then


(to 7, or only recent 10?)

Only Windows 10. It's been built-in for a couple of years, I think. I hadn't
spotted this was cross-posted to W7 groups.


Thanks. All noted - I might experiment next time I'm at my friends' (324
miles from me, but I'm hoping to be able to visit them soon [without
defining a very long thin "bubble"!]). Though as there are about half a
dozen free such utilities, I'll _probably_ not - though I imagine there
could arise a situation (malware, legislation, etc.) where they all stop
working at once (or at least within a short time of each other).


UltraVNC has been around for years, and is likely to be for many more.

Worth adding that a "dynamic DNS" facility will be helpful, unless you can get
your contact to tell you his/her IP address (seemingly unlikely in your case).
No-IP is still free, and works well, though the free version has to be
"refreshed" (easy enough) once a month. With dynamic DNS a small utility runs
on the host which updates a DNS record, so you can connect using a fixed DNS
name.
https://www.noip.com/what-is-dns

--

Phil, London
  #10  
Old May 9th 21, 05:59 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
null modem
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Do all remote-desktop utilities use/need a remote server?

On 4/26/2021 12:10 PM, between "J. P. Gilliver (John)":
Looking at (free) alternatives to TeamViewer. So far have found Distant
Desktop (10-11 MB, just runs), AnyDesk Free (~3.7 MB, runs), NoMachine
(34 MB!, installs), and others.


I've settled with the free AnyDesk, myself. It only needs to be setup at the remote system once - preferably with a pw that you pre-configure - then you don't need the person at the remote end to participate.

..but helping a friend hundreds of miles away [with no VPN or similar].


I see that you've crossposted in win7, win10 and xp groups. AnyDesk ought to be pretty useful in all cases.

Alternately, you can use Window's built-in RemoteAssitance. It works in a pinch.

You can pre-create an invite, email it to your remote friend, and all they have to do is launch it. When they do that, your pc will get a pw prompt, which you complete with the pw that you pre-created, and then the person at the remote end just has to "allow" access.

This page explains the feature quite well, and the preliminary steps that may be required between participating pcs:

http://www.ctimls.com/Support/KB/How...Assistance.htm

Myself, I would just use the command-line method to generate an invite with an established password so that your friend on the remote end doesn't have to read the pw out to you.

  #11  
Old May 9th 21, 08:02 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Zaidy036[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Do all remote-desktop utilities use/need a remote server?

On 5/9/2021 12:59 PM, null modem wrote:
On 4/26/2021 12:10 PM, between "J. P. Gilliver (John)":
Looking at (free) alternatives to TeamViewer. So far have found Distant
Desktop (10-11 MB, just runs), AnyDesk Free (~3.7 MB, runs), NoMachine
(34 MB!, installs), and others.


I've settled with the free AnyDesk, myself. It only needs to be setup at the remote system once - preferably with a pw that you pre-configure - then you don't need the person at the remote end to participate.

..but helping a friend hundreds of miles away [with no VPN or similar].


I see that you've crossposted in win7, win10 and xp groups. AnyDesk ought to be pretty useful in all cases.

Alternately, you can use Window's built-in RemoteAssitance. It works in a pinch.

You can pre-create an invite, email it to your remote friend, and all they have to do is launch it. When they do that, your pc will get a pw prompt, which you complete with the pw that you pre-created, and then the person at the remote end just has to "allow" access.

This page explains the feature quite well, and the preliminary steps that may be required between participating pcs:

http://www.ctimls.com/Support/KB/How...Assistance.htm

Myself, I would just use the command-line method to generate an invite with an established password so that your friend on the remote end doesn't have to read the pw out to you.

another alternative is RealVNC
  #12  
Old May 10th 21, 01:07 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Brian Gregory[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Do all remote-desktop utilities use/need a remote server?

On 27/04/2021 17:27, Philip Herlihy wrote:
Worth adding that a "dynamic DNS" facility will be helpful, unless you can get
your contact to tell you his/her IP address (seemingly unlikely in your case).
No-IP is still free, and works well, though the free version has to be
"refreshed" (easy enough) once a month. With dynamic DNS a small utility runs
on the host which updates a DNS record, so you can connect using a fixed DNS
name.
https://www.noip.com/what-is-dns


noip are pain. You have to keep saying yes I do still want to keep my
domain or they delete it after some time.

IMHO duckdns.org is a good choice for a free dynamic DNS now.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).
  #13  
Old May 10th 21, 12:16 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
NY[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default Do all remote-desktop utilities use/need a remote server?

"null modem" wrote in message
...
On 4/26/2021 12:10 PM, between "J. P. Gilliver (John)":
Looking at (free) alternatives to TeamViewer. So far have found Distant
Desktop (10-11 MB, just runs), AnyDesk Free (~3.7 MB, runs), NoMachine
(34 MB!, installs), and others.


I've settled with the free AnyDesk, myself. It only needs to be setup at
the remote system once - preferably with a pw that you pre-configure -
then you don't need the person at the remote end to participate.

..but helping a friend hundreds of miles away [with no VPN or similar].


I see that you've crossposted in win7, win10 and xp groups. AnyDesk ought
to be pretty useful in all cases.

Alternately, you can use Window's built-in RemoteAssitance. It works in a
pinch.

You can pre-create an invite, email it to your remote friend, and all they
have to do is launch it. When they do that, your pc will get a pw prompt,
which you complete with the pw that you pre-created, and then the person
at the remote end just has to "allow" access.

This page explains the feature quite well, and the preliminary steps that
may be required between participating pcs:

http://www.ctimls.com/Support/KB/How...Assistance.htm

Myself, I would just use the command-line method to generate an invite
with an established password so that your friend on the remote end doesn't
have to read the pw out to you.




I use Real VNC Viewer (on the remote client) and Real VNC Server (on the
computer that the remote client is to control). It has strengths and
weaknesses compared with Teamviewer:

Strengths

- no "commercial usage detected" false-positives (Teamviewer have got big
problems with connections wrongly being detected as commercial)

- no authorisation is needed at the server end, once you've defined the
"server" password; this can also be done in Teamviewer but it's always faff
trying to work out how to do it (the default is "ask for password every
time, and it may change periodically)


Weaknesses

- no remote sound (if you play something on the "server", the client doesn't
hear it)

- maximum of five computers per free VNC account - ie five computers that
can be controlled



Real VNC runs on most computers: I've installed the server on Windows (7 and
10) and Linux (Raspberry Pi), and the client on Windows (7/10) and Android.




  #14  
Old May 10th 21, 08:14 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 603
Default Do all remote-desktop utilities use/need a remote server?

I initially asked this out of idle curiosity (plus the desire not to be
reliant on a remote server). Since then, TeamViewer has played up, so
it's more immediately relevant.

On Sun, 9 May 2021 at 12:59:19, null modem wrote (my
responses usually follow points raised):
On 4/26/2021 12:10 PM, between "J. P. Gilliver (John)":
Looking at (free) alternatives to TeamViewer. So far have found Distant
Desktop (10-11 MB, just runs), AnyDesk Free (~3.7 MB, runs), NoMachine
(34 MB!, installs), and others.


I've settled with the free AnyDesk, myself. It only needs to be setup
at the remote system once - preferably with a pw that you pre-configure
- then you don't need the person at the remote end to participate.


I tried Distant Desktop, as it seemed likely to be as simple as possible
for my remote user to use: just one window, with ID and password for her
to read out to me. Unfortunately it draws that window _not_ using
standard Windows calls, so she had to use her "JAWS cursor" to read
them. It then worked, but with a HUGE timelag - about 18 seconds for the
round trip (i. e. if I did something on my view of her desktop, it took
that long before I saw the result). Obviously that's not normal - nobody
would use it if it was! - so I'll give it another go.

AnyDesk is next on my list to try if TeamViewer and DD fail next time.

..but helping a friend hundreds of miles away [with no VPN or similar].


I see that you've crossposted in win7, win10 and xp groups. AnyDesk
ought to be pretty useful in all cases.


I did that as I didn't think the answer was OS-specific. (As it happens,
both I and my friend are W7 HP - me 32-bit, she 64.)

Alternately, you can use Window's built-in RemoteAssitance. It works in
a pinch.

You can pre-create an invite, email it to your remote friend, and all
they have to do is launch it. When they do that, your pc will get a pw
prompt, which you complete with the pw that you pre-created, and then
the person at the remote end just has to "allow" access.


Presumably I have to be running something that's looking for that pw
prompt.

This page explains the feature quite well, and the preliminary steps
that may be required between participating pcs:

http://www.ctimls.com/Support/KB/How...Assistance.htm

Myself, I would just use the command-line method to generate an invite
with an established password so that your friend on the remote end
doesn't have to read the pw out to you.

Thanks - noted for future reference. (My friend finds command-line
difficult - I think her speech and/or Braille doesn't read it without
extra steps - but if I read what you're saying correctly, I think it's
only me that has to do CL.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

No sense being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway.
- Penny Mayes, UMRA, 2014-August
  #15  
Old May 10th 21, 08:45 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 603
Default Do all remote-desktop utilities use/need a remote server?

On Mon, 10 May 2021 at 12:16:01, NY wrote (my
responses usually follow points raised):
[]
I use Real VNC Viewer (on the remote client) and Real VNC Server (on
the computer that the remote client is to control). It has strengths
and weaknesses compared with Teamviewer:

Strengths

- no "commercial usage detected" false-positives (Teamviewer have got
big problems with connections wrongly being detected as commercial)


(I imagine that's because of their [TV's] fee structure.)

I had such a claim from them a few years ago, and filled out the
relevant form, and they lifted the block; until they did, I _could_
still connect, but only for what felt like about a minute, if that.

This time didn't _feel_ like that (though they could have changed their
messages).

The previous time of using TeamViewer, neither of us terminated it at
the end of the session: this may have logged on their server as an
hours- (or even days-) long session.

Next time, I got a popup with two (apparently contradictory) messages; I
can't remember the exact words, but they were _something_ like

"connection to this person has exceeded the permitted limit"

and

"connection terminated by timeout. Connection to this person will be
allowed after 14:11".

Since this was at 14:10:xx, I waited until after 14:11, and tried again:
same result, other than it said "after 14:12". It kept doing that, even
if both of us completely closed TV and restarted it.

I _didn't_ get the one-minute (or whatever) connection I'd had
previously when they thought I was doing commercial; besides, that
didn't really gel with the second message. And there was no mention of
me using it commercially.

(I have sent them "Feedback", but no response yet, and it's been days
now.)

- no authorisation is needed at the server end, once you've defined the
"server" password; this can also be done in Teamviewer but it's always
faff trying to work out how to do it (the default is "ask for password
every time, and it may change periodically)


Weaknesses

- no remote sound (if you play something on the "server", the client
doesn't hear it)


I could live with that (we normally have a phonecall live)

- maximum of five computers per free VNC account - ie five computers
that can be controlled

I don't think I have that many people I support (and presumably you can
open further accounts?)


Real VNC runs on most computers: I've installed the server on Windows
(7 and 10) and Linux (Raspberry Pi), and the client on Windows (7/10)
and Android.

Useful.


3
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

No sense being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway.
- Penny Mayes, UMRA, 2014-August
 




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