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Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backup Windows7?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 8th 14, 06:24 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
mike[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,070
Default Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backup Windows7?

Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backup Windows 7?

When I build a windows 7 system, I use gparted to create C and D
partitions. C is small and easy to backup with Acronis...life is good.

If I let win7 partition the drive, it adds a 100MB one that messes up the
ordering and confuses the Acronis backup system so the restore won't boot
without jumping thru some repair hoops...so I don't do that.

I bought a used HP laptop. Had one visible C: partition, but it
was so locked down that I gave up and did the factory restore.
Now, it has four partitions.
199MB System NTFS hidden
238GB C: NTFS
14GB Recovery with D: label NTFS
103MB HPTools.. at the end. FAT32 hidden

What I'd like to do is hide the recovery partition,
split C: into
20GB C:
118GB D:

AND NOT LOSE THE LINKAGE TO THE RECOVERY PARTITION
so I can use the boot hotkey to restore the new C: using the system recovery
partition.
AND FIX UP THE PARTITION POINTERS SO ACRONIS CAN
BACKUP/RESTORE THE PARTITIONS AND THE SYSTEM WILL BOOT.

Google finds me lots of info on shrinking/adding partitions.
I'm finding nothing about how to keep the linkages to the system
factory restore process.

Then, there's the problem that I already have 4 primary partitions.
Is that still the maximum? Have to do something about that.
BUT
I have other situations where this is not a problem, so still
need a solution that splits partitions without screwing up the
drive ordering and confusing the backup/restore/recovery programs.

Need some freeware or tutorials or something...
Ads
  #2  
Old July 8th 14, 07:33 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
. . .winston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,345
Default Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backupWindows 7?

mike wrote, On 7/8/2014 1:24 AM:
Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backup Windows 7?

When I build a windows 7 system, I use gparted to create C and D
partitions. C is small and easy to backup with Acronis...life is good.

If I let win7 partition the drive, it adds a 100MB one that messes up the
ordering and confuses the Acronis backup system so the restore won't boot
without jumping thru some repair hoops...so I don't do that.

I bought a used HP laptop. Had one visible C: partition, but it
was so locked down that I gave up and did the factory restore.
Now, it has four partitions.
199MB System NTFS hidden
238GB C: NTFS
14GB Recovery with D: label NTFS
103MB HPTools.. at the end. FAT32 hidden

What I'd like to do is hide the recovery partition,
split C: into
20GB C:
118GB D:

AND NOT LOSE THE LINKAGE TO THE RECOVERY PARTITION
so I can use the boot hotkey to restore the new C: using the system
recovery
partition.
AND FIX UP THE PARTITION POINTERS SO ACRONIS CAN
BACKUP/RESTORE THE PARTITIONS AND THE SYSTEM WILL BOOT.

Google finds me lots of info on shrinking/adding partitions.
I'm finding nothing about how to keep the linkages to the system
factory restore process.

Then, there's the problem that I already have 4 primary partitions.
Is that still the maximum? Have to do something about that.
BUT
I have other situations where this is not a problem, so still
need a solution that splits partitions without screwing up the
drive ordering and confusing the backup/restore/recovery programs.

Need some freeware or tutorials or something...



Win7 compatible Acronis True Image is capable of backing up both...the
Win7 created System Reserved 100 MB partition and the Boot partition
(the o/s) and including it in the same image *.tib *and* restoring it to
the same hardware without the need for repair.

Likewise it can image and restore the entire factory created partitions.

On Windows 7 with traditional MBR formating the partition table has four
'slots' thus four partitions are allowed. The general rule is 4 primary
or 3 primary and one Extended.

If the hardware supports GPT then the EFI specification mandates that a
GUID Partition Table (GPT), which all modern operating systems support,
is capable of containing a minimum of 128 partitions of any size.


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
  #3  
Old July 8th 14, 11:23 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
mike[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,070
Default Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backupWindows 7?

On 7/7/2014 11:33 PM, . . .winston wrote:
mike wrote, On 7/8/2014 1:24 AM:
Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backup Windows 7?

When I build a windows 7 system, I use gparted to create C and D
partitions. C is small and easy to backup with Acronis...life is good.

If I let win7 partition the drive, it adds a 100MB one that messes up the
ordering and confuses the Acronis backup system so the restore won't boot
without jumping thru some repair hoops...so I don't do that.

I bought a used HP laptop. Had one visible C: partition, but it
was so locked down that I gave up and did the factory restore.
Now, it has four partitions.
199MB System NTFS hidden
238GB C: NTFS
14GB Recovery with D: label NTFS
103MB HPTools.. at the end. FAT32 hidden

What I'd like to do is hide the recovery partition,
split C: into
20GB C:
118GB D:

AND NOT LOSE THE LINKAGE TO THE RECOVERY PARTITION
so I can use the boot hotkey to restore the new C: using the system
recovery
partition.
AND FIX UP THE PARTITION POINTERS SO ACRONIS CAN
BACKUP/RESTORE THE PARTITIONS AND THE SYSTEM WILL BOOT.

Google finds me lots of info on shrinking/adding partitions.
I'm finding nothing about how to keep the linkages to the system
factory restore process.

Then, there's the problem that I already have 4 primary partitions.
Is that still the maximum? Have to do something about that.
BUT
I have other situations where this is not a problem, so still
need a solution that splits partitions without screwing up the
drive ordering and confusing the backup/restore/recovery programs.

Need some freeware or tutorials or something...



Win7 compatible Acronis True Image is capable of backing up both...the
Win7 created System Reserved 100 MB partition and the Boot partition
(the o/s) and including it in the same image *.tib *and* restoring it to
the same hardware without the need for repair.

Likewise it can image and restore the entire factory created partitions.

On Windows 7 with traditional MBR formating the partition table has four
'slots' thus four partitions are allowed. The general rule is 4 primary
or 3 primary and one Extended.

If the hardware supports GPT then the EFI specification mandates that a
GUID Partition Table (GPT), which all modern operating systems support,
is capable of containing a minimum of 128 partitions of any size.



Thanks for the input.
I should have mentioned that I'm using acronis11 and unwilling to fork over
bucks for a newer version.
And I don't think I have the option to switch to GUID partitions without
messing up the system restore capability...maybe...that's what the question
is about.

I still need input on what happens to the system restore capability
when I split C: into C: and D: Assuming I can manage the partition
quantity. How does the system get from a hotkey at boot time to
running factory system restore? I think I have several options
to restore a partition. Problem is that I don't know how to get
it linked back into the boot hotkey.
  #4  
Old July 8th 14, 05:24 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,281
Default Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backupWindows 7?

mike wrote:
On 7/7/2014 11:33 PM, . . .winston wrote:
mike wrote, On 7/8/2014 1:24 AM:
Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backup Windows 7?

When I build a windows 7 system, I use gparted to create C and D
partitions. C is small and easy to backup with Acronis...life is good.

If I let win7 partition the drive, it adds a 100MB one that messes up
the
ordering and confuses the Acronis backup system so the restore won't
boot
without jumping thru some repair hoops...so I don't do that.

I bought a used HP laptop. Had one visible C: partition, but it
was so locked down that I gave up and did the factory restore.
Now, it has four partitions.
199MB System NTFS hidden
238GB C: NTFS
14GB Recovery with D: label NTFS
103MB HPTools.. at the end. FAT32 hidden

What I'd like to do is hide the recovery partition,
split C: into
20GB C:
118GB D:

AND NOT LOSE THE LINKAGE TO THE RECOVERY PARTITION
so I can use the boot hotkey to restore the new C: using the system
recovery
partition.
AND FIX UP THE PARTITION POINTERS SO ACRONIS CAN
BACKUP/RESTORE THE PARTITIONS AND THE SYSTEM WILL BOOT.

Google finds me lots of info on shrinking/adding partitions.
I'm finding nothing about how to keep the linkages to the system
factory restore process.

Then, there's the problem that I already have 4 primary partitions.
Is that still the maximum? Have to do something about that.
BUT
I have other situations where this is not a problem, so still
need a solution that splits partitions without screwing up the
drive ordering and confusing the backup/restore/recovery programs.

Need some freeware or tutorials or something...



Win7 compatible Acronis True Image is capable of backing up both...the
Win7 created System Reserved 100 MB partition and the Boot partition
(the o/s) and including it in the same image *.tib *and* restoring it to
the same hardware without the need for repair.

Likewise it can image and restore the entire factory created partitions.

On Windows 7 with traditional MBR formating the partition table has four
'slots' thus four partitions are allowed. The general rule is 4 primary
or 3 primary and one Extended.

If the hardware supports GPT then the EFI specification mandates that a
GUID Partition Table (GPT), which all modern operating systems support,
is capable of containing a minimum of 128 partitions of any size.



Thanks for the input.
I should have mentioned that I'm using acronis11 and unwilling to fork over
bucks for a newer version.
And I don't think I have the option to switch to GUID partitions without
messing up the system restore capability...maybe...that's what the question
is about.

I still need input on what happens to the system restore capability
when I split C: into C: and D: Assuming I can manage the partition
quantity. How does the system get from a hotkey at boot time to
running factory system restore? I think I have several options
to restore a partition. Problem is that I don't know how to get
it linked back into the boot hotkey.


You can remove SYSTEM RESERVED partition with
a recipe here. I did this and it worked, but
my requirements might be different than yours.
I went from all four primaries in usage, to only
three of them, so I could add another OS. And I did
a full backup before doing this, just in case. You
can do a backup with "dd", if you have any concerns
about how well your regular backup software is
working.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=409

The Windows System Image is inflexible, and should
not be relied on to deal with partition table changes.
If you "system image", it's with the understanding
that the partition table won't change. If you change
the partition table, then throw away the old system
images (figuratively speaking).

The System Image concept still has good copies of
files. The partitions are stored in .vhd files. The .vhd
files can be accessed with various tools (for example,
the latest 7ZIP can navigate inside one). But that doesn't
imply easy migration from there, back to some partition
table that has changed. It would require a lot of work.

For a backup tool, you could try Macrium Reflect Free.
Which I like, because it's free. (Lower left corner)

http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx

*******

And just for the hell of it, I've backed up
the laptop before, using "dd" from a Linux Mint USB key
and the FTP protocol. I set up an FTP server
on my main machine. And did this sort of thing
from the laptop running Mint. The block size used
here, is a "factor" of the total disk size, which
I checked in advance.

ftp binary
ftp put "|dd if=/dev/sda bs=73728" sda

The pipe symbol in FTP allows sending the
output of a command (a stream of bytes) to
a file. In this case, a file "sda" was created
on the FTP server, and it was around 40GB.

The only problem with the method, is getting
FTP in IIS to work on my main machine, is a
large PITA. And not recommended. Use an FTP
server that humans can set up, not crap like
that.

Paul
  #5  
Old July 8th 14, 06:31 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
. . .winston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,345
Default Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backupWindows 7?

Paul wrote, On 7/8/2014 12:24 PM:
mike wrote:
On 7/7/2014 11:33 PM, . . .winston wrote:
mike wrote, On 7/8/2014 1:24 AM:
Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backup
Windows 7?

When I build a windows 7 system, I use gparted to create C and D
partitions. C is small and easy to backup with Acronis...life is good.

If I let win7 partition the drive, it adds a 100MB one that messes
up the
ordering and confuses the Acronis backup system so the restore won't
boot
without jumping thru some repair hoops...so I don't do that.

I bought a used HP laptop. Had one visible C: partition, but it
was so locked down that I gave up and did the factory restore.
Now, it has four partitions.
199MB System NTFS hidden
238GB C: NTFS
14GB Recovery with D: label NTFS
103MB HPTools.. at the end. FAT32 hidden

What I'd like to do is hide the recovery partition,
split C: into
20GB C:
118GB D:

AND NOT LOSE THE LINKAGE TO THE RECOVERY PARTITION
so I can use the boot hotkey to restore the new C: using the system
recovery
partition.
AND FIX UP THE PARTITION POINTERS SO ACRONIS CAN
BACKUP/RESTORE THE PARTITIONS AND THE SYSTEM WILL BOOT.

Google finds me lots of info on shrinking/adding partitions.
I'm finding nothing about how to keep the linkages to the system
factory restore process.

Then, there's the problem that I already have 4 primary partitions.
Is that still the maximum? Have to do something about that.
BUT
I have other situations where this is not a problem, so still
need a solution that splits partitions without screwing up the
drive ordering and confusing the backup/restore/recovery programs.

Need some freeware or tutorials or something...


Win7 compatible Acronis True Image is capable of backing up both...the
Win7 created System Reserved 100 MB partition and the Boot partition
(the o/s) and including it in the same image *.tib *and* restoring it to
the same hardware without the need for repair.

Likewise it can image and restore the entire factory created partitions.

On Windows 7 with traditional MBR formating the partition table has four
'slots' thus four partitions are allowed. The general rule is 4 primary
or 3 primary and one Extended.

If the hardware supports GPT then the EFI specification mandates that a
GUID Partition Table (GPT), which all modern operating systems support,
is capable of containing a minimum of 128 partitions of any size.



Thanks for the input.
I should have mentioned that I'm using acronis11 and unwilling to fork
over
bucks for a newer version.
And I don't think I have the option to switch to GUID partitions without
messing up the system restore capability...maybe...that's what the
question
is about.

I still need input on what happens to the system restore capability
when I split C: into C: and D: Assuming I can manage the partition
quantity. How does the system get from a hotkey at boot time to
running factory system restore? I think I have several options
to restore a partition. Problem is that I don't know how to get
it linked back into the boot hotkey.


You can remove SYSTEM RESERVED partition with
a recipe here. I did this and it worked, but
my requirements might be different than yours.
I went from all four primaries in usage, to only
three of them, so I could add another OS. And I did
a full backup before doing this, just in case. You
can do a backup with "dd", if you have any concerns
about how well your regular backup software is
working.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=409

The Windows System Image is inflexible, and should
not be relied on to deal with partition table changes.
If you "system image", it's with the understanding
that the partition table won't change. If you change
the partition table, then throw away the old system
images (figuratively speaking).

The System Image concept still has good copies of
files. The partitions are stored in .vhd files. The .vhd
files can be accessed with various tools (for example,
the latest 7ZIP can navigate inside one). But that doesn't
imply easy migration from there, back to some partition
table that has changed. It would require a lot of work.

For a backup tool, you could try Macrium Reflect Free.
Which I like, because it's free. (Lower left corner)

http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx

*******

And just for the hell of it, I've backed up
the laptop before, using "dd" from a Linux Mint USB key
and the FTP protocol. I set up an FTP server
on my main machine. And did this sort of thing
from the laptop running Mint. The block size used
here, is a "factor" of the total disk size, which
I checked in advance.

ftp binary
ftp put "|dd if=/dev/sda bs=73728" sda

The pipe symbol in FTP allows sending the
output of a command (a stream of bytes) to
a file. In this case, a file "sda" was created
on the FTP server, and it was around 40GB.

The only problem with the method, is getting
FTP in IIS to work on my main machine, is a
large PITA. And not recommended. Use an FTP
server that humans can set up, not crap like
that.

Paul

Paul, if I may ask...how does that help the op's desire to use the
system restore capability (apparently in reference to the HP created
Recovery Partition) ?


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
  #6  
Old July 8th 14, 06:41 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
. . .winston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,345
Default Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backupWindows 7?

mike wrote, On 7/8/2014 6:23 AM:
On 7/7/2014 11:33 PM, . . .winston wrote:
mike wrote, On 7/8/2014 1:24 AM:
Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backup Windows 7?

When I build a windows 7 system, I use gparted to create C and D
partitions. C is small and easy to backup with Acronis...life is good.

If I let win7 partition the drive, it adds a 100MB one that messes up
the
ordering and confuses the Acronis backup system so the restore won't
boot
without jumping thru some repair hoops...so I don't do that.

I bought a used HP laptop. Had one visible C: partition, but it
was so locked down that I gave up and did the factory restore.
Now, it has four partitions.
199MB System NTFS hidden
238GB C: NTFS
14GB Recovery with D: label NTFS
103MB HPTools.. at the end. FAT32 hidden

What I'd like to do is hide the recovery partition,
split C: into
20GB C:
118GB D:

AND NOT LOSE THE LINKAGE TO THE RECOVERY PARTITION
so I can use the boot hotkey to restore the new C: using the system
recovery
partition.
AND FIX UP THE PARTITION POINTERS SO ACRONIS CAN
BACKUP/RESTORE THE PARTITIONS AND THE SYSTEM WILL BOOT.

Google finds me lots of info on shrinking/adding partitions.
I'm finding nothing about how to keep the linkages to the system
factory restore process.

Then, there's the problem that I already have 4 primary partitions.
Is that still the maximum? Have to do something about that.
BUT
I have other situations where this is not a problem, so still
need a solution that splits partitions without screwing up the
drive ordering and confusing the backup/restore/recovery programs.

Need some freeware or tutorials or something...



Win7 compatible Acronis True Image is capable of backing up both...the
Win7 created System Reserved 100 MB partition and the Boot partition
(the o/s) and including it in the same image *.tib *and* restoring it to
the same hardware without the need for repair.

Likewise it can image and restore the entire factory created partitions.

On Windows 7 with traditional MBR formating the partition table has four
'slots' thus four partitions are allowed. The general rule is 4 primary
or 3 primary and one Extended.

If the hardware supports GPT then the EFI specification mandates that a
GUID Partition Table (GPT), which all modern operating systems support,
is capable of containing a minimum of 128 partitions of any size.



Thanks for the input.
I should have mentioned that I'm using acronis11 and unwilling to fork over
bucks for a newer version.


I recall using ATI11 on Vista which had a System Reserved (100 MB) and
successfully backing up and restoring though I don't recall if ATI11
like later versions (2010, 2011, and later) specifically had a check box
to include System Reserved.


I still need input on what happens to the system restore capability
when I split C: into C: and D: Assuming I can manage the partition
quantity. How does the system get from a hotkey at boot time to
running factory system restore? I think I have several options
to restore a partition. Problem is that I don't know how to get
it linked back into the boot hotkey.


I'm not sure anyone has an answer to your question. Using the hp
factory restore option may very well return the pc to its original
factory created partition sizing.

Good luck.
--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
  #7  
Old July 8th 14, 07:47 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,281
Default Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backupWindows 7?

.. . .winston wrote:
Paul wrote, On 7/8/2014 12:24 PM:
mike wrote:
On 7/7/2014 11:33 PM, . . .winston wrote:
mike wrote, On 7/8/2014 1:24 AM:
Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backup
Windows 7?

When I build a windows 7 system, I use gparted to create C and D
partitions. C is small and easy to backup with Acronis...life is
good.

If I let win7 partition the drive, it adds a 100MB one that messes
up the
ordering and confuses the Acronis backup system so the restore won't
boot
without jumping thru some repair hoops...so I don't do that.

I bought a used HP laptop. Had one visible C: partition, but it
was so locked down that I gave up and did the factory restore.
Now, it has four partitions.
199MB System NTFS hidden
238GB C: NTFS
14GB Recovery with D: label NTFS
103MB HPTools.. at the end. FAT32 hidden

What I'd like to do is hide the recovery partition,
split C: into
20GB C:
118GB D:

AND NOT LOSE THE LINKAGE TO THE RECOVERY PARTITION
so I can use the boot hotkey to restore the new C: using the system
recovery
partition.
AND FIX UP THE PARTITION POINTERS SO ACRONIS CAN
BACKUP/RESTORE THE PARTITIONS AND THE SYSTEM WILL BOOT.

Google finds me lots of info on shrinking/adding partitions.
I'm finding nothing about how to keep the linkages to the system
factory restore process.

Then, there's the problem that I already have 4 primary partitions.
Is that still the maximum? Have to do something about that.
BUT
I have other situations where this is not a problem, so still
need a solution that splits partitions without screwing up the
drive ordering and confusing the backup/restore/recovery programs.

Need some freeware or tutorials or something...


Win7 compatible Acronis True Image is capable of backing up both...the
Win7 created System Reserved 100 MB partition and the Boot partition
(the o/s) and including it in the same image *.tib *and* restoring
it to
the same hardware without the need for repair.

Likewise it can image and restore the entire factory created
partitions.

On Windows 7 with traditional MBR formating the partition table has
four
'slots' thus four partitions are allowed. The general rule is 4 primary
or 3 primary and one Extended.

If the hardware supports GPT then the EFI specification mandates that a
GUID Partition Table (GPT), which all modern operating systems support,
is capable of containing a minimum of 128 partitions of any size.



Thanks for the input.
I should have mentioned that I'm using acronis11 and unwilling to fork
over
bucks for a newer version.
And I don't think I have the option to switch to GUID partitions without
messing up the system restore capability...maybe...that's what the
question
is about.

I still need input on what happens to the system restore capability
when I split C: into C: and D: Assuming I can manage the partition
quantity. How does the system get from a hotkey at boot time to
running factory system restore? I think I have several options
to restore a partition. Problem is that I don't know how to get
it linked back into the boot hotkey.


You can remove SYSTEM RESERVED partition with
a recipe here. I did this and it worked, but
my requirements might be different than yours.
I went from all four primaries in usage, to only
three of them, so I could add another OS. And I did
a full backup before doing this, just in case. You
can do a backup with "dd", if you have any concerns
about how well your regular backup software is
working.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=409

The Windows System Image is inflexible, and should
not be relied on to deal with partition table changes.
If you "system image", it's with the understanding
that the partition table won't change. If you change
the partition table, then throw away the old system
images (figuratively speaking).

The System Image concept still has good copies of
files. The partitions are stored in .vhd files. The .vhd
files can be accessed with various tools (for example,
the latest 7ZIP can navigate inside one). But that doesn't
imply easy migration from there, back to some partition
table that has changed. It would require a lot of work.

For a backup tool, you could try Macrium Reflect Free.
Which I like, because it's free. (Lower left corner)

http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx

*******

And just for the hell of it, I've backed up
the laptop before, using "dd" from a Linux Mint USB key
and the FTP protocol. I set up an FTP server
on my main machine. And did this sort of thing
from the laptop running Mint. The block size used
here, is a "factor" of the total disk size, which
I checked in advance.

ftp binary
ftp put "|dd if=/dev/sda bs=73728" sda

The pipe symbol in FTP allows sending the
output of a command (a stream of bytes) to
a file. In this case, a file "sda" was created
on the FTP server, and it was around 40GB.

The only problem with the method, is getting
FTP in IIS to work on my main machine, is a
large PITA. And not recommended. Use an FTP
server that humans can set up, not crap like
that.

Paul

Paul, if I may ask...how does that help the op's desire to use the
system restore capability (apparently in reference to the HP created
Recovery Partition) ?


You mean restoring to Factory conditions ? It
will still restore to Factory conditions,
destroying everything in its path. Is that
good enough ?

My machine (the Acer laptop with the replaced OS),
is still prepared for factory restore. Which would
ruin all the work I put into setup of the laptop.
The option is still there, if passing the laptop
on to another person.

The current OS on the Acer laptop, is a Windows 7 SP1
Home Premium DVD (X17-24209.iso) downloaded from DigitalRiver.
And installed using the COA on the laptop. And that takes the
place of the Acer-provided Win7 OS image. If I need to reinstall,
I have two options. Push the "nuclear button" and
do a Factory restore from the 15GB partition which
is still present. Or reach for the Windows 7 SP1 Home
Premium DVD and reinstall and activate that. Pick
your poison. At the current time, the DVD does
less damage.

Paul
  #8  
Old July 8th 14, 10:57 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
mike[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,070
Default Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backupWindows 7?

On 7/8/2014 11:47 AM, Paul wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
Paul wrote, On 7/8/2014 12:24 PM:
mike wrote:
On 7/7/2014 11:33 PM, . . .winston wrote:
mike wrote, On 7/8/2014 1:24 AM:
Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backup
Windows 7?

When I build a windows 7 system, I use gparted to create C and D
partitions. C is small and easy to backup with Acronis...life is
good.

If I let win7 partition the drive, it adds a 100MB one that messes
up the
ordering and confuses the Acronis backup system so the restore won't
boot
without jumping thru some repair hoops...so I don't do that.

I bought a used HP laptop. Had one visible C: partition, but it
was so locked down that I gave up and did the factory restore.
Now, it has four partitions.
199MB System NTFS hidden
238GB C: NTFS
14GB Recovery with D: label NTFS
103MB HPTools.. at the end. FAT32 hidden

What I'd like to do is hide the recovery partition,
split C: into
20GB C:
118GB D:

AND NOT LOSE THE LINKAGE TO THE RECOVERY PARTITION
so I can use the boot hotkey to restore the new C: using the system
recovery
partition.
AND FIX UP THE PARTITION POINTERS SO ACRONIS CAN
BACKUP/RESTORE THE PARTITIONS AND THE SYSTEM WILL BOOT.

Google finds me lots of info on shrinking/adding partitions.
I'm finding nothing about how to keep the linkages to the system
factory restore process.

Then, there's the problem that I already have 4 primary partitions.
Is that still the maximum? Have to do something about that.
BUT
I have other situations where this is not a problem, so still
need a solution that splits partitions without screwing up the
drive ordering and confusing the backup/restore/recovery programs.

Need some freeware or tutorials or something...


Win7 compatible Acronis True Image is capable of backing up both...the
Win7 created System Reserved 100 MB partition and the Boot partition
(the o/s) and including it in the same image *.tib *and* restoring
it to
the same hardware without the need for repair.

Likewise it can image and restore the entire factory created
partitions.

On Windows 7 with traditional MBR formating the partition table has
four
'slots' thus four partitions are allowed. The general rule is 4
primary
or 3 primary and one Extended.

If the hardware supports GPT then the EFI specification mandates
that a
GUID Partition Table (GPT), which all modern operating systems
support,
is capable of containing a minimum of 128 partitions of any size.



Thanks for the input.
I should have mentioned that I'm using acronis11 and unwilling to fork
over
bucks for a newer version.
And I don't think I have the option to switch to GUID partitions
without
messing up the system restore capability...maybe...that's what the
question
is about.

I still need input on what happens to the system restore capability
when I split C: into C: and D: Assuming I can manage the partition
quantity. How does the system get from a hotkey at boot time to
running factory system restore? I think I have several options
to restore a partition. Problem is that I don't know how to get
it linked back into the boot hotkey.

You can remove SYSTEM RESERVED partition with
a recipe here. I did this and it worked, but
my requirements might be different than yours.
I went from all four primaries in usage, to only
three of them, so I could add another OS. And I did
a full backup before doing this, just in case. You
can do a backup with "dd", if you have any concerns
about how well your regular backup software is
working.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=409

The Windows System Image is inflexible, and should
not be relied on to deal with partition table changes.
If you "system image", it's with the understanding
that the partition table won't change. If you change
the partition table, then throw away the old system
images (figuratively speaking).

The System Image concept still has good copies of
files. The partitions are stored in .vhd files. The .vhd
files can be accessed with various tools (for example,
the latest 7ZIP can navigate inside one). But that doesn't
imply easy migration from there, back to some partition
table that has changed. It would require a lot of work.

For a backup tool, you could try Macrium Reflect Free.
Which I like, because it's free. (Lower left corner)

http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx

*******

And just for the hell of it, I've backed up
the laptop before, using "dd" from a Linux Mint USB key
and the FTP protocol. I set up an FTP server
on my main machine. And did this sort of thing
from the laptop running Mint. The block size used
here, is a "factor" of the total disk size, which
I checked in advance.

ftp binary
ftp put "|dd if=/dev/sda bs=73728" sda

The pipe symbol in FTP allows sending the
output of a command (a stream of bytes) to
a file. In this case, a file "sda" was created
on the FTP server, and it was around 40GB.

The only problem with the method, is getting
FTP in IIS to work on my main machine, is a
large PITA. And not recommended. Use an FTP
server that humans can set up, not crap like
that.

Paul

Paul, if I may ask...how does that help the op's desire to use the
system restore capability (apparently in reference to the HP created
Recovery Partition) ?


You mean restoring to Factory conditions ? It
will still restore to Factory conditions,
destroying everything in its path. Is that
good enough ?

My machine (the Acer laptop with the replaced OS),
is still prepared for factory restore. Which would
ruin all the work I put into setup of the laptop.
The option is still there, if passing the laptop
on to another person.

The current OS on the Acer laptop, is a Windows 7 SP1
Home Premium DVD (X17-24209.iso) downloaded from DigitalRiver.
And installed using the COA on the laptop. And that takes the
place of the Acer-provided Win7 OS image. If I need to reinstall,
I have two options. Push the "nuclear button" and
do a Factory restore from the 15GB partition which
is still present. Or reach for the Windows 7 SP1 Home
Premium DVD and reinstall and activate that. Pick
your poison. At the current time, the DVD does
less damage.

Paul

Thanks for the links.
I have a much greater understanding...well...let's say I have
a greater appreciation for the complexity of the problem.

I tried to focus the discussion with a specific example.
But my issues are far wider.
I buy all my computers at garage sales. This particular
one had a busted display and I was able to do a factory restore,
and create the restore DVD set. Usually, I'm not so lucky
and the disk has been dropped or wiped or...

Gettin' win7 installed the way I want is absolutely trivial...
except that drivers on the system may not be available for download
on the vendor site.

The windows part is not technical, it's legal.
I haven't read all the docs, but my working summary sez,
"if you sneeze within 50 yards of a windows system you violate
terms of service or license agreements or DMCA or something
equally actionable." I try hard to keep everything exactly
the way it came out of the box and 100% compliant with everybody's
fine print. The major stickler is that virtually every system
comes with one user partition. That's a real pain for backups.

When someone asks me to help them fix a crashed computer, I smile
and tell 'em to just restore a backup. Of course, they don't have one.
Why? Because they didn't have any place to store it...because there's
only one partition on the system and they'd need a huge offline
drive to store a backup image.

I do tech support for my neighbor. Right now, we have no clean
way to backup/restore his shiny new Win7 system. If I do nothing, I'm
not at
fault. If I try to help and break something, I'm the bad guy.
No good deed goes unpunished...

I know how to fix it. I just don't know how to do it in compliance
with all the fine print and maintain the factory restore option.

I hadn't considered the issue that the built-in factory restore or
system image backup might try to duplicate the partition sizes.
That's really bad news. Unless it's a warranty replacement drive,
I can't imagine anybody buying exactly the same drive as a replacement
for a failed drive or upgrade. It's still an option for restoring
the system to factory status if I'm gonna sell it. But I still haven't
resolved the issue of moving partition pointers. Even if I did have
enough partition slots, I'm still not sure how adding one in the middle
doesn't trash the pointers to the one on the end and make factory restore
fail.

Looks like the simple fix of splitting
C: into C: and D: is not an option without doing something more
invasive, like deleting the system partition.

Backups are one of those chicken-egg issues.
Kinda like, "keyboard not found, press any key to continue."
OR, "Would you like to search online for a network driver?"
If you're gonna experiment with backup methods, you really need
to start with a working backup method.
;-(

I've been building systems from scratch and testing...but there's
always that nagging feeling that what worked on my test machine
might not work on my neighbor's shiny new OEM-configured machine.
  #9  
Old July 9th 14, 12:40 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,281
Default Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backupWindows 7?

mike wrote:
On 7/8/2014 11:47 AM, Paul wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
Paul wrote, On 7/8/2014 12:24 PM:
mike wrote:
On 7/7/2014 11:33 PM, . . .winston wrote:
mike wrote, On 7/8/2014 1:24 AM:
Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backup
Windows 7?

When I build a windows 7 system, I use gparted to create C and D
partitions. C is small and easy to backup with Acronis...life is
good.

If I let win7 partition the drive, it adds a 100MB one that messes
up the
ordering and confuses the Acronis backup system so the restore won't
boot
without jumping thru some repair hoops...so I don't do that.

I bought a used HP laptop. Had one visible C: partition, but it
was so locked down that I gave up and did the factory restore.
Now, it has four partitions.
199MB System NTFS hidden
238GB C: NTFS
14GB Recovery with D: label NTFS
103MB HPTools.. at the end. FAT32 hidden

What I'd like to do is hide the recovery partition,
split C: into
20GB C:
118GB D:

AND NOT LOSE THE LINKAGE TO THE RECOVERY PARTITION
so I can use the boot hotkey to restore the new C: using the system
recovery
partition.
AND FIX UP THE PARTITION POINTERS SO ACRONIS CAN
BACKUP/RESTORE THE PARTITIONS AND THE SYSTEM WILL BOOT.

Google finds me lots of info on shrinking/adding partitions.
I'm finding nothing about how to keep the linkages to the system
factory restore process.

Then, there's the problem that I already have 4 primary partitions.
Is that still the maximum? Have to do something about that.
BUT
I have other situations where this is not a problem, so still
need a solution that splits partitions without screwing up the
drive ordering and confusing the backup/restore/recovery programs.

Need some freeware or tutorials or something...


Win7 compatible Acronis True Image is capable of backing up
both...the
Win7 created System Reserved 100 MB partition and the Boot partition
(the o/s) and including it in the same image *.tib *and* restoring
it to
the same hardware without the need for repair.

Likewise it can image and restore the entire factory created
partitions.

On Windows 7 with traditional MBR formating the partition table has
four
'slots' thus four partitions are allowed. The general rule is 4
primary
or 3 primary and one Extended.

If the hardware supports GPT then the EFI specification mandates
that a
GUID Partition Table (GPT), which all modern operating systems
support,
is capable of containing a minimum of 128 partitions of any size.



Thanks for the input.
I should have mentioned that I'm using acronis11 and unwilling to fork
over
bucks for a newer version.
And I don't think I have the option to switch to GUID partitions
without
messing up the system restore capability...maybe...that's what the
question
is about.

I still need input on what happens to the system restore capability
when I split C: into C: and D: Assuming I can manage the partition
quantity. How does the system get from a hotkey at boot time to
running factory system restore? I think I have several options
to restore a partition. Problem is that I don't know how to get
it linked back into the boot hotkey.

You can remove SYSTEM RESERVED partition with
a recipe here. I did this and it worked, but
my requirements might be different than yours.
I went from all four primaries in usage, to only
three of them, so I could add another OS. And I did
a full backup before doing this, just in case. You
can do a backup with "dd", if you have any concerns
about how well your regular backup software is
working.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=409

The Windows System Image is inflexible, and should
not be relied on to deal with partition table changes.
If you "system image", it's with the understanding
that the partition table won't change. If you change
the partition table, then throw away the old system
images (figuratively speaking).

The System Image concept still has good copies of
files. The partitions are stored in .vhd files. The .vhd
files can be accessed with various tools (for example,
the latest 7ZIP can navigate inside one). But that doesn't
imply easy migration from there, back to some partition
table that has changed. It would require a lot of work.

For a backup tool, you could try Macrium Reflect Free.
Which I like, because it's free. (Lower left corner)

http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx

*******

And just for the hell of it, I've backed up
the laptop before, using "dd" from a Linux Mint USB key
and the FTP protocol. I set up an FTP server
on my main machine. And did this sort of thing
from the laptop running Mint. The block size used
here, is a "factor" of the total disk size, which
I checked in advance.

ftp binary
ftp put "|dd if=/dev/sda bs=73728" sda

The pipe symbol in FTP allows sending the
output of a command (a stream of bytes) to
a file. In this case, a file "sda" was created
on the FTP server, and it was around 40GB.

The only problem with the method, is getting
FTP in IIS to work on my main machine, is a
large PITA. And not recommended. Use an FTP
server that humans can set up, not crap like
that.

Paul
Paul, if I may ask...how does that help the op's desire to use the
system restore capability (apparently in reference to the HP created
Recovery Partition) ?


You mean restoring to Factory conditions ? It
will still restore to Factory conditions,
destroying everything in its path. Is that
good enough ?

My machine (the Acer laptop with the replaced OS),
is still prepared for factory restore. Which would
ruin all the work I put into setup of the laptop.
The option is still there, if passing the laptop
on to another person.

The current OS on the Acer laptop, is a Windows 7 SP1
Home Premium DVD (X17-24209.iso) downloaded from DigitalRiver.
And installed using the COA on the laptop. And that takes the
place of the Acer-provided Win7 OS image. If I need to reinstall,
I have two options. Push the "nuclear button" and
do a Factory restore from the 15GB partition which
is still present. Or reach for the Windows 7 SP1 Home
Premium DVD and reinstall and activate that. Pick
your poison. At the current time, the DVD does
less damage.

Paul

Thanks for the links.
I have a much greater understanding...well...let's say I have
a greater appreciation for the complexity of the problem.

I tried to focus the discussion with a specific example.
But my issues are far wider.
I buy all my computers at garage sales. This particular
one had a busted display and I was able to do a factory restore,
and create the restore DVD set. Usually, I'm not so lucky
and the disk has been dropped or wiped or...

Gettin' win7 installed the way I want is absolutely trivial...
except that drivers on the system may not be available for download
on the vendor site.

The windows part is not technical, it's legal.
I haven't read all the docs, but my working summary sez,
"if you sneeze within 50 yards of a windows system you violate
terms of service or license agreements or DMCA or something
equally actionable." I try hard to keep everything exactly
the way it came out of the box and 100% compliant with everybody's
fine print. The major stickler is that virtually every system
comes with one user partition. That's a real pain for backups.

When someone asks me to help them fix a crashed computer, I smile
and tell 'em to just restore a backup. Of course, they don't have one.
Why? Because they didn't have any place to store it...because there's
only one partition on the system and they'd need a huge offline
drive to store a backup image.

I do tech support for my neighbor. Right now, we have no clean
way to backup/restore his shiny new Win7 system. If I do nothing, I'm
not at
fault. If I try to help and break something, I'm the bad guy.
No good deed goes unpunished...

I know how to fix it. I just don't know how to do it in compliance
with all the fine print and maintain the factory restore option.

I hadn't considered the issue that the built-in factory restore or
system image backup might try to duplicate the partition sizes.
That's really bad news. Unless it's a warranty replacement drive,
I can't imagine anybody buying exactly the same drive as a replacement
for a failed drive or upgrade. It's still an option for restoring
the system to factory status if I'm gonna sell it. But I still haven't
resolved the issue of moving partition pointers. Even if I did have
enough partition slots, I'm still not sure how adding one in the middle
doesn't trash the pointers to the one on the end and make factory restore
fail.

Looks like the simple fix of splitting
C: into C: and D: is not an option without doing something more
invasive, like deleting the system partition.

Backups are one of those chicken-egg issues.
Kinda like, "keyboard not found, press any key to continue."
OR, "Would you like to search online for a network driver?"
If you're gonna experiment with backup methods, you really need
to start with a working backup method.
;-(

I've been building systems from scratch and testing...but there's
always that nagging feeling that what worked on my test machine
might not work on my neighbor's shiny new OEM-configured machine.


I just erased the stuff I composed, after
having an evil thought.

There is nothing really special about SYSTEM RESERVED.

1) It doesn't have a drive letter. It doesn't have
a drive letter, so System Restore and Restore Points
won't be stored on the volume. That's why it remains
incognito. If you add a drive letter, then it should be
resized so it doesn't "overflow" due to restore points.
My assumption is, the user doesn't know how to turn
Restore Points on and off, and eventually they're
turned on. So why not plan for them, to avoid a later
headache.

2) SYSTEM SESERVED has the boot files on it, but those won't
interfere with user files. They're in places like /boot.

You could give SYSTEM RESERVED a drive letter and
resize it. It's NTFS as far as I know. Don't know
if the permissions at the root level would be a problem
or not.

Now, on the down size, when Service Packs come along,
they don't tend to be compatible with moved user
directories. If you move the pointer that points
to the user directory, and put it on "D:", there is
evidence the Service Pack installer doesn't
take that into account.

If you wanted to create a "Downloads" folder over there,
and the user moves things over manually, I don't see
a problem with that. I'm just not clear on the
issues with doing an actual user move off C:.

And anyone I help in the family with computers,
gets the standard lecture on owning at least
one backup drive. And now that Macrium Reflect Free
is available, that's one item off the shopping list.
Now all you need, is a good sized drive. Preferably
USB so it can be disconnected when not in use. Having
it disconnected is for Sality and Cryptolocker, and
having a means to recover when you come back to
restore things :-)

Paul
  #10  
Old July 9th 14, 04:47 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
. . .winston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,345
Default Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backupWindows 7?

Paul wrote, On 7/8/2014 2:47 PM:
. . .winston wrote:


Paul, if I may ask...how does that help the op's desire to use the
system restore capability (apparently in reference to the HP created
Recovery Partition) ?


You mean restoring to Factory conditions ? It
will still restore to Factory conditions,
destroying everything in its path. Is that
good enough ?

My machine (the Acer laptop with the replaced OS),
is still prepared for factory restore. Which would
ruin all the work I put into setup of the laptop.
The option is still there, if passing the laptop
on to another person.

The current OS on the Acer laptop, is a Windows 7 SP1
Home Premium DVD (X17-24209.iso) downloaded from DigitalRiver.
And installed using the COA on the laptop. And that takes the
place of the Acer-provided Win7 OS image. If I need to reinstall,
I have two options. Push the "nuclear button" and
do a Factory restore from the 15GB partition which
is still present. Or reach for the Windows 7 SP1 Home
Premium DVD and reinstall and activate that. Pick
your poison. At the current time, the DVD does
less damage.

Paul


It would appear that the op now understands the impact that factory
restore can have (restore everything to what it was) when changing
partition sizes regardless of what one does later with System Reserved,
C: etc.

It also doesn't sound like the op (I'm willing to be corrected if
indicated otherwise) is planning on providing a Win7 DVD of whatever
flavor the Recovery partiton has to whomever receives the repaired unit
("if I'm going to sell it").

I.e. what I or you might do on our own (remove System Reserved, resize,
etc.) might not be of any value if the repaired and sold unit is ever
factory restored in the future.

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
  #11  
Old July 9th 14, 05:41 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
mike[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,070
Default Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backupWindows 7?

On 7/8/2014 4:40 PM, Paul wrote:
mike wrote:
On 7/8/2014 11:47 AM, Paul wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
Paul wrote, On 7/8/2014 12:24 PM:
mike wrote:
On 7/7/2014 11:33 PM, . . .winston wrote:
mike wrote, On 7/8/2014 1:24 AM:
Dealing with hidden partitions, recovery, ms stuff etc backup
Windows 7?

When I build a windows 7 system, I use gparted to create C and D
partitions. C is small and easy to backup with Acronis...life is
good.

If I let win7 partition the drive, it adds a 100MB one that messes
up the
ordering and confuses the Acronis backup system so the restore
won't
boot
without jumping thru some repair hoops...so I don't do that.

I bought a used HP laptop. Had one visible C: partition, but it
was so locked down that I gave up and did the factory restore.
Now, it has four partitions.
199MB System NTFS hidden
238GB C: NTFS
14GB Recovery with D: label NTFS
103MB HPTools.. at the end. FAT32 hidden

What I'd like to do is hide the recovery partition,
split C: into
20GB C:
118GB D:

AND NOT LOSE THE LINKAGE TO THE RECOVERY PARTITION
so I can use the boot hotkey to restore the new C: using the system
recovery
partition.
AND FIX UP THE PARTITION POINTERS SO ACRONIS CAN
BACKUP/RESTORE THE PARTITIONS AND THE SYSTEM WILL BOOT.

Google finds me lots of info on shrinking/adding partitions.
I'm finding nothing about how to keep the linkages to the system
factory restore process.

Then, there's the problem that I already have 4 primary partitions.
Is that still the maximum? Have to do something about that.
BUT
I have other situations where this is not a problem, so still
need a solution that splits partitions without screwing up the
drive ordering and confusing the backup/restore/recovery programs.

Need some freeware or tutorials or something...


Win7 compatible Acronis True Image is capable of backing up
both...the
Win7 created System Reserved 100 MB partition and the Boot partition
(the o/s) and including it in the same image *.tib *and* restoring
it to
the same hardware without the need for repair.

Likewise it can image and restore the entire factory created
partitions.

On Windows 7 with traditional MBR formating the partition table has
four
'slots' thus four partitions are allowed. The general rule is 4
primary
or 3 primary and one Extended.

If the hardware supports GPT then the EFI specification mandates
that a
GUID Partition Table (GPT), which all modern operating systems
support,
is capable of containing a minimum of 128 partitions of any size.



Thanks for the input.
I should have mentioned that I'm using acronis11 and unwilling to
fork
over
bucks for a newer version.
And I don't think I have the option to switch to GUID partitions
without
messing up the system restore capability...maybe...that's what the
question
is about.

I still need input on what happens to the system restore capability
when I split C: into C: and D: Assuming I can manage the partition
quantity. How does the system get from a hotkey at boot time to
running factory system restore? I think I have several options
to restore a partition. Problem is that I don't know how to get
it linked back into the boot hotkey.

You can remove SYSTEM RESERVED partition with
a recipe here. I did this and it worked, but
my requirements might be different than yours.
I went from all four primaries in usage, to only
three of them, so I could add another OS. And I did
a full backup before doing this, just in case. You
can do a backup with "dd", if you have any concerns
about how well your regular backup software is
working.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=409

The Windows System Image is inflexible, and should
not be relied on to deal with partition table changes.
If you "system image", it's with the understanding
that the partition table won't change. If you change
the partition table, then throw away the old system
images (figuratively speaking).

The System Image concept still has good copies of
files. The partitions are stored in .vhd files. The .vhd
files can be accessed with various tools (for example,
the latest 7ZIP can navigate inside one). But that doesn't
imply easy migration from there, back to some partition
table that has changed. It would require a lot of work.

For a backup tool, you could try Macrium Reflect Free.
Which I like, because it's free. (Lower left corner)

http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx

*******

And just for the hell of it, I've backed up
the laptop before, using "dd" from a Linux Mint USB key
and the FTP protocol. I set up an FTP server
on my main machine. And did this sort of thing
from the laptop running Mint. The block size used
here, is a "factor" of the total disk size, which
I checked in advance.

ftp binary
ftp put "|dd if=/dev/sda bs=73728" sda

The pipe symbol in FTP allows sending the
output of a command (a stream of bytes) to
a file. In this case, a file "sda" was created
on the FTP server, and it was around 40GB.

The only problem with the method, is getting
FTP in IIS to work on my main machine, is a
large PITA. And not recommended. Use an FTP
server that humans can set up, not crap like
that.

Paul
Paul, if I may ask...how does that help the op's desire to use the
system restore capability (apparently in reference to the HP created
Recovery Partition) ?

You mean restoring to Factory conditions ? It
will still restore to Factory conditions,
destroying everything in its path. Is that
good enough ?

My machine (the Acer laptop with the replaced OS),
is still prepared for factory restore. Which would
ruin all the work I put into setup of the laptop.
The option is still there, if passing the laptop
on to another person.

The current OS on the Acer laptop, is a Windows 7 SP1
Home Premium DVD (X17-24209.iso) downloaded from DigitalRiver.
And installed using the COA on the laptop. And that takes the
place of the Acer-provided Win7 OS image. If I need to reinstall,
I have two options. Push the "nuclear button" and
do a Factory restore from the 15GB partition which
is still present. Or reach for the Windows 7 SP1 Home
Premium DVD and reinstall and activate that. Pick
your poison. At the current time, the DVD does
less damage.

Paul

Thanks for the links.
I have a much greater understanding...well...let's say I have
a greater appreciation for the complexity of the problem.

I tried to focus the discussion with a specific example.
But my issues are far wider.
I buy all my computers at garage sales. This particular
one had a busted display and I was able to do a factory restore,
and create the restore DVD set. Usually, I'm not so lucky
and the disk has been dropped or wiped or...

Gettin' win7 installed the way I want is absolutely trivial...
except that drivers on the system may not be available for download
on the vendor site.

The windows part is not technical, it's legal.
I haven't read all the docs, but my working summary sez,
"if you sneeze within 50 yards of a windows system you violate
terms of service or license agreements or DMCA or something
equally actionable." I try hard to keep everything exactly
the way it came out of the box and 100% compliant with everybody's
fine print. The major stickler is that virtually every system
comes with one user partition. That's a real pain for backups.

When someone asks me to help them fix a crashed computer, I smile
and tell 'em to just restore a backup. Of course, they don't have one.
Why? Because they didn't have any place to store it...because there's
only one partition on the system and they'd need a huge offline
drive to store a backup image.

I do tech support for my neighbor. Right now, we have no clean
way to backup/restore his shiny new Win7 system. If I do nothing, I'm
not at
fault. If I try to help and break something, I'm the bad guy.
No good deed goes unpunished...

I know how to fix it. I just don't know how to do it in compliance
with all the fine print and maintain the factory restore option.

I hadn't considered the issue that the built-in factory restore or
system image backup might try to duplicate the partition sizes.
That's really bad news. Unless it's a warranty replacement drive,
I can't imagine anybody buying exactly the same drive as a replacement
for a failed drive or upgrade. It's still an option for restoring
the system to factory status if I'm gonna sell it. But I still haven't
resolved the issue of moving partition pointers. Even if I did have
enough partition slots, I'm still not sure how adding one in the middle
doesn't trash the pointers to the one on the end and make factory restore
fail.

Looks like the simple fix of splitting
C: into C: and D: is not an option without doing something more
invasive, like deleting the system partition.

Backups are one of those chicken-egg issues.
Kinda like, "keyboard not found, press any key to continue."
OR, "Would you like to search online for a network driver?"
If you're gonna experiment with backup methods, you really need
to start with a working backup method.
;-(

I've been building systems from scratch and testing...but there's
always that nagging feeling that what worked on my test machine
might not work on my neighbor's shiny new OEM-configured machine.


I just erased the stuff I composed, after
having an evil thought.

There is nothing really special about SYSTEM RESERVED.

1) It doesn't have a drive letter. It doesn't have
a drive letter, so System Restore and Restore Points
won't be stored on the volume. That's why it remains
incognito. If you add a drive letter, then it should be
resized so it doesn't "overflow" due to restore points.
My assumption is, the user doesn't know how to turn
Restore Points on and off, and eventually they're
turned on. So why not plan for them, to avoid a later
headache.

2) SYSTEM SESERVED has the boot files on it, but those won't
interfere with user files. They're in places like /boot.

You could give SYSTEM RESERVED a drive letter and
resize it. It's NTFS as far as I know. Don't know
if the permissions at the root level would be a problem
or not.

Now, on the down size, when Service Packs come along,
they don't tend to be compatible with moved user
directories. If you move the pointer that points
to the user directory, and put it on "D:", there is
evidence the Service Pack installer doesn't
take that into account.

If you wanted to create a "Downloads" folder over there,
and the user moves things over manually, I don't see
a problem with that. I'm just not clear on the
issues with doing an actual user move off C:.

And anyone I help in the family with computers,
gets the standard lecture on owning at least
one backup drive. And now that Macrium Reflect Free
is available, that's one item off the shopping list.
Now all you need, is a good sized drive. Preferably
USB so it can be disconnected when not in use. Having
it disconnected is for Sality and Cryptolocker, and
having a means to recover when you come back to
restore things :-)

Paul

My philosophy is different.
The root cause is microsoft antipiracy stuff.
Makes it nigh impossible to backup stuff without doing a full
image backup.

My C: is 25GB. Has windows and office and a lot of small stuff.
Anything that requires activation or calls home is on C:.
Restore points are enabled on C:.
I can do an image backup or restore in 15 minutes.
I turn off hibernation and pagefile on c:.
I sometimes put the pagefile back on d: Windows is
refusing to let me run a third concurrent instance of virtualbox.
Pagefile isn't needed often. Most of my systems never do that.

D: contains the big stuff and all the stuff that can be
restored by copying or easily reinstalled without a lot of
configuration/customization. Databases. MSDN. Streets. virtualboxes
200GB of TV I ain't got around to watching yet. Many
gigabytes of music and video. All that stuff is archived,
possibly compressed on external storage of various kinds.
It rarely changes or needs re-backingup.


C: gets imaged to compressed files on D: which get copied
to external archives. The external USB drives stay off until
I need to copy something to/from them.

As long as the backup system can restore the backup
to the correct partition and configure the boot process, life is good.
Acronis 11 can't unless I don't let the OS create the hidden system
partition. Then, it works fine.

Contrast that to the typical installation where you have a terabyte of
stuff on C: with 975GB of stuff rarely changing or transient and not in
need of backup.
Takes forever to back it up. And where do you put that
first backup...let alone the third one? And that's why people don't
backup their systems.

One big partition is a bad idea.

 




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