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#16
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On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:08:27 -0700, "Michael Solomon \(MS-MVP\)"
wrote: Well, if that's what interests you and the problem is the cost of long distance calls, have you considered Internet Phone Service.? One standard monthly rate, no per minute charges, you can use your own phone with much better sound quality than using your PC's mic input and speakers, none of the dropouts or compatibility issues or differing setups based on different and competing chat technologies. I'm no MS plant. If you are true to your word about what you are seeking, then this is a far better solution for you; here's one example www.vonage.com. Many cable companies that offer broadband access are now offering similar services. In fact, even many local telcos are offering such service. One caveat, you usually need to go to a slightly higher tier of service in order for it to include 911 service; it's generally not more than an additional $5 or $10 a month. Aside from that, you can completely replace your local and long distance service at a very reasonable price and with many of these services, not only is long distance included but you have no local toll calls either. Thanks for the reply. Voice over the Internet phone is going to be the future as far as I feel. The only problem here is that the people that I use voice most with - especially my old friend & my son, just about every day, are Messenger users and are not going to change - and I live in a house where the telephone is not in my name.. Really, the phone is not used except a couple for times a week & local calls.. Might even be on lifeline (restricted to a certain amount of calls). But I can't see getting any kind of phone service and paying even a couple of dollars - I just don't use a telephone much. Now, I've answered you without clicking on your link, and I am going to as soon as I send this off... ...D. |
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#17
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....D. wrote:
Voice over the Internet phone is going to be the future as far as I feel. The only problem here is that the people that I use voice most with - especially my old friend & my son, just about every day, are Messenger users and are not going to change - and I live in a house where the telephone is not in my name.. Really, the phone is not used except a couple for times a week & local calls.. Might even be on lifeline (restricted to a certain amount of calls). But I can't see getting any kind of phone service and paying even a couple of dollars - I just don't use a telephone much. Did you try Skype? http://skype.com/ The sound quality is much much better compared to MSN, and way less problems. You can call to ordinary phones too, and the other way around. -- John Bokma Want to record a webcam session? See: http://johnbokma.com/messenger/capturingwebcam.html Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/ Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html |
#18
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I understand. You should be aware, most new voice over IP systems that
allow you to use your current telephone, don't require the other users to be using Voice over IP. In other words, they receive the call on their normal service. Of course, that would mean you'd be calling them but I wanted to clarify that point. Second, it should be understood, chat technology was not really designed for voice. Yes, it's offered and from what I gather, in some cases it's quite good but it's still something that was tacked on to something that wasn't really designed for this. You don't get the same bandwidth and often, even at its best, it's pretty clunky. I know there have been a lot of problems with MS chat, especially with regard to voice. I don't know why it has been so problematic but I do realize it is a frustration for many users and my post was not an attempt to defend that, it was simply to point out there are alternatives. I can only point out such alternatives, only you can determine if the value is there for you. -- In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol. Michael Solomon MS-MVP Windows Shell/User https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx Backup is a PC User's Best Friend DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/ "...D." wrote in message ... On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:08:27 -0700, "Michael Solomon \(MS-MVP\)" wrote: Well, if that's what interests you and the problem is the cost of long distance calls, have you considered Internet Phone Service.? One standard monthly rate, no per minute charges, you can use your own phone with much better sound quality than using your PC's mic input and speakers, none of the dropouts or compatibility issues or differing setups based on different and competing chat technologies. I'm no MS plant. If you are true to your word about what you are seeking, then this is a far better solution for you; here's one example www.vonage.com. Many cable companies that offer broadband access are now offering similar services. In fact, even many local telcos are offering such service. One caveat, you usually need to go to a slightly higher tier of service in order for it to include 911 service; it's generally not more than an additional $5 or $10 a month. Aside from that, you can completely replace your local and long distance service at a very reasonable price and with many of these services, not only is long distance included but you have no local toll calls either. Thanks for the reply. Voice over the Internet phone is going to be the future as far as I feel. The only problem here is that the people that I use voice most with - especially my old friend & my son, just about every day, are Messenger users and are not going to change - and I live in a house where the telephone is not in my name.. Really, the phone is not used except a couple for times a week & local calls.. Might even be on lifeline (restricted to a certain amount of calls). But I can't see getting any kind of phone service and paying even a couple of dollars - I just don't use a telephone much. Now, I've answered you without clicking on your link, and I am going to as soon as I send this off... ...D. |
#19
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Standard Skype, which is free would work and is certainly an alternative.
However, the free version can't reach standard phones. That said, that wouldn't appear to be an issue for "D." I'm only pointing that out for others who might be reading this thread. -- In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol. Michael Solomon MS-MVP Windows Shell/User https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx Backup is a PC User's Best Friend DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/ "John Bokma" wrote in message ... ...D. wrote: Voice over the Internet phone is going to be the future as far as I feel. The only problem here is that the people that I use voice most with - especially my old friend & my son, just about every day, are Messenger users and are not going to change - and I live in a house where the telephone is not in my name.. Really, the phone is not used except a couple for times a week & local calls.. Might even be on lifeline (restricted to a certain amount of calls). But I can't see getting any kind of phone service and paying even a couple of dollars - I just don't use a telephone much. Did you try Skype? http://skype.com/ The sound quality is much much better compared to MSN, and way less problems. You can call to ordinary phones too, and the other way around. -- John Bokma Want to record a webcam session? See: http://johnbokma.com/messenger/capturingwebcam.html Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/ Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html |
#20
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Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:
Please don't top post (it's miscommunication), moreover, don't top post with a valid sig separator, it makes it harder for people using decent Usenet clients. "John Bokma" wrote in message ... Did you try Skype? http://skype.com/ The sound quality is much much better compared to MSN, and way less problems. You can call to ordinary phones too, and the other way around. [ snip ] Standard Skype, which is free would work and is certainly an alternative. However, the free version can't reach standard phones. As expected, who is going to pay for that? [ snip my sig ] -- John Bokma Want to record a webcam session? See: http://johnbokma.com/messenger/capturingwebcam.html Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/ Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html |
#21
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Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:
Second, it should be understood, chat technology was not really designed for voice. Define "chat technology" -- John Bokma Want to record a webcam session? See: http://johnbokma.com/messenger/capturingwebcam.html Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/ Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html |
#22
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Response inline below:
-- In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol. Michael Solomon MS-MVP Windows Shell/User https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx Backup is a PC User's Best Friend DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/ "John Bokma" wrote in message ... Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote: Second, it should be understood, chat technology was not really designed for voice. Define "chat technology" Perhaps the term technology was too strong. I will leave it at this, chat client's were designed to use the internet for transmission of text messages. Voice is an add-on that requires the user to interface their mic and sound setup and introduces a number of outside varibles not present in the chat client. If it works, fine. If not, the user may have some options they can check and configure in the chat client but then there's a whole host of other things outside of the client they may need to check if it's not simply some option or selection they didn't tick within the client. If the client was designed for this from the ground up, it would handle those variables. Certainly, there can be issues between any application and the operating system but with chat, there seems to be a great deal more reliance on the user setup and that leaves the door wide open to all sorts of possibile roadblocks. Further, as in the case of "D," he wants to use chat for something for which it was never intended, a telephone. From what I've seen, while there can certainly be issues with Voice over IP, the solutions now being offered are fairly turnkey with the application handling most of the setup work and other than the free version of Skype completely bypasses the PC's sound setup in favor of the telephone. Right there, that elminates potential issues that are inherent in chat or in this case, voice chat. I apologize for the top posting. I recognize what you politely requested is generally accepted as proper Usenet ettiquette but that has not been the case within Microsoft groups on the MS server. I have experimented with it from time to time using OE Quote-Fix but I generally get a lot of people complaining when I follow that format and only rarely receive such complaints when I top post. Again, I apologize but for now anyway, it will likely continue. -- John Bokma Want to record a webcam session? See: http://johnbokma.com/messenger/capturingwebcam.html Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/ Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html |
#23
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Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:
Response inline below: Thanks, but the bigger problem is that you put your sig above your reply. Most smart Usenet clients remove the sig when you reply, and hence, I end up with only the above line :-( (copy + paste + fix ) "John Bokma" wrote in message ... Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote: Second, it should be understood, chat technology was not really designed for voice. Define "chat technology" Perhaps the term technology was too strong. I will leave it at this, chat client's were designed to use the internet for transmission of text messages. But the internet itself can handle arbitrary data (within certain bounds of course). Voice is an add-on that requires the user to interface their mic and sound setup Since there is a default API for handling sound in/out in most OSes, again no problem. If you can play music, you can hear sound coming from a voice chat If you can record your voice, you can send it on the Internet. and introduces a number of outside varibles not present in the chat client. If it works, fine. If not, the user may have some options they can check and configure in the chat client but then there's a whole host of other things outside of the client they may need to check if it's not simply some option or selection they didn't tick within the client. As soon as it leaves the chat client, it's data, and it doesn't matter anymore. Getting the audio in and out of the client is just software. If the client was designed for this from the ground up, it would handle those variables. Certainly, there can be issues between any application and the operating system but with chat, there seems to be a great deal more reliance on the user setup and that leaves the door wide open to all sorts of possibile roadblocks. The only road block is: making two clients connect *directly* without a server in between. This means that they must accept incoming connections. Which is a bit of a hassle to get working through firewalls/NATs. But it can be done, look at Skype. Works in more situations, better sound quality, etc. Even the conference mode works like a dream (I talked to my mom and brother a few days ago, Mexico - Netherlands). Further, as in the case of "D," he wants to use chat for something for which it was never intended, a telephone. From what I've seen, while there can same with winks, nudges, and custom emoticons. Yet it's just data that needs to go from one client to the other. The Internet was never intended to host millions of websites, etc. certainly be issues with Voice over IP, the solutions now being offered are fairly turnkey with the application handling most of the setup work and other than the free version of Skype completely bypasses the PC's sound setup in favor of the telephone. I sincerly doubt that this has anything to do with the PC sound but much more with: my mom has to learn how to use Skype. She is going to a computer course. Yes, she already manages the basics, but just grabbing a phone is way easier. And I think the same holds for a lot users, and I mean a lot lot. Just grabbing a simple phone, keying in some access code, and talking is way easier compared to turn on the PC, wait ... wait... until it finished booting up, starting a voice chat application, etc. Even I consider a voice over the speakers more invading then a phone conversation. Right there, that elminates potential issues that are inherent in chat or in this case, voice chat. As far as I understand it, the biggest issue is getting the client accepting incoming connections, through firewall/NAT. I apologize for the top posting. I recognize what you politely requested is generally accepted as proper Usenet ettiquette but that has not been the case within Microsoft groups on the MS server. I read this group on "my" server, which is not a Microsoft server :-D I have experimented with it from time to time using OE Quote-Fix but I generally get a lot of people complaining when I follow that format Try to remove everything that is no longer relevant. Most complaints are about scrolling. People "here" often post a question, and think that the answer is written only for them. If you carefully explain that the messages are archived somewhere and can (and often) are read stand alone, you sometimes can make clear that reading from top to bottom is more natural, then scrolling down, scrolling up, read, scrolling down, scrolling up, read, etc. Moreover, most top posters don't snip anything, so the posting has a huge huge trail of garbage dangling under it, wasting bandwidth, which we pay for in the end. And all for a quick and free reply :-( and only rarely receive such complaints when I top post. Again, I apologize but for now anyway, it will likely continue. Print a random top posted message out, and try to make sense of it. You will discover why it's annoying. Most top posters see Usenet as a help desk, and every reply to their message as especially written for them, almost like a private message. They prefer to have the answer on top, since that's what they are looking for. But it makes it way harder for people who start reading in a thread in the middle (e.g. because they found it using Google groups). People who insist on top posting are often egoists who only are "here" for the free help, and contribute zilch. It's a pitty that some well known MVPs, and I recall that P stands for professional, serve Usenet postings as those egoists seem to prefer, not caring about all those people who read their reply weeks, months, or more later, and have a hard time making sense of it. The Google archive of this group, and very likely similar MS groups are huge collections of junk, bandwidth waste, and bad communication. In short, unusable. Somehow those trigger happy people prefer to repeat the same answer, on top, over and over again instead of pointing to a excellent piece of softwa Google groups. Apologies for this rant, but I hope some others will rethink their posting behaviour. In the end it will save up some bandwidth, and makes the archives more readable, and hence, makes Usenet work. -- John Bokma Want to record a webcam session? See: http://johnbokma.com/messenger/capturingwebcam.html Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/ Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html |
#24
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Well, I tried a compromise and that doesn't seem acceptable either. You
need look no further than my properties to know I'm using Outlook Express for posting. I'd also point out, with the heavy volume of individuals who post to these newsgroups from the Microsoft web interface, most of the posts will not be formatted according to your desires or what is considered proper etiquette for Usenet. I'm not trying to be obtuse or argumentative, I did after all, attempt to compromise with you and in the case of larger posts, I do, quite often reply inline but even that didn't work for you because of signature placement, something I would have to change specifically any time I replied to you. I do apologize but I guess you'll just have to place me in your killfile if this is unacceptable to you. I'd just point out, more and more users who reach these groups did not start out on Usenet and often find reading bottom posted messages annoying as well. -- In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol. Michael Solomon MS-MVP Windows Shell/User https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx Backup is a PC User's Best Friend DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/ "John Bokma" wrote in message ... Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote: Response inline below: Thanks, but the bigger problem is that you put your sig above your reply. Most smart Usenet clients remove the sig when you reply, and hence, I end up with only the above line :-( (copy + paste + fix ) "John Bokma" wrote in message ... Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote: Second, it should be understood, chat technology was not really designed for voice. Define "chat technology" Perhaps the term technology was too strong. I will leave it at this, chat client's were designed to use the internet for transmission of text messages. But the internet itself can handle arbitrary data (within certain bounds of course). Voice is an add-on that requires the user to interface their mic and sound setup Since there is a default API for handling sound in/out in most OSes, again no problem. If you can play music, you can hear sound coming from a voice chat If you can record your voice, you can send it on the Internet. and introduces a number of outside varibles not present in the chat client. If it works, fine. If not, the user may have some options they can check and configure in the chat client but then there's a whole host of other things outside of the client they may need to check if it's not simply some option or selection they didn't tick within the client. As soon as it leaves the chat client, it's data, and it doesn't matter anymore. Getting the audio in and out of the client is just software. If the client was designed for this from the ground up, it would handle those variables. Certainly, there can be issues between any application and the operating system but with chat, there seems to be a great deal more reliance on the user setup and that leaves the door wide open to all sorts of possibile roadblocks. The only road block is: making two clients connect *directly* without a server in between. This means that they must accept incoming connections. Which is a bit of a hassle to get working through firewalls/NATs. But it can be done, look at Skype. Works in more situations, better sound quality, etc. Even the conference mode works like a dream (I talked to my mom and brother a few days ago, Mexico - Netherlands). Further, as in the case of "D," he wants to use chat for something for which it was never intended, a telephone. From what I've seen, while there can same with winks, nudges, and custom emoticons. Yet it's just data that needs to go from one client to the other. The Internet was never intended to host millions of websites, etc. certainly be issues with Voice over IP, the solutions now being offered are fairly turnkey with the application handling most of the setup work and other than the free version of Skype completely bypasses the PC's sound setup in favor of the telephone. I sincerly doubt that this has anything to do with the PC sound but much more with: my mom has to learn how to use Skype. She is going to a computer course. Yes, she already manages the basics, but just grabbing a phone is way easier. And I think the same holds for a lot users, and I mean a lot lot. Just grabbing a simple phone, keying in some access code, and talking is way easier compared to turn on the PC, wait ... wait... until it finished booting up, starting a voice chat application, etc. Even I consider a voice over the speakers more invading then a phone conversation. Right there, that elminates potential issues that are inherent in chat or in this case, voice chat. As far as I understand it, the biggest issue is getting the client accepting incoming connections, through firewall/NAT. I apologize for the top posting. I recognize what you politely requested is generally accepted as proper Usenet ettiquette but that has not been the case within Microsoft groups on the MS server. I read this group on "my" server, which is not a Microsoft server :-D I have experimented with it from time to time using OE Quote-Fix but I generally get a lot of people complaining when I follow that format Try to remove everything that is no longer relevant. Most complaints are about scrolling. People "here" often post a question, and think that the answer is written only for them. If you carefully explain that the messages are archived somewhere and can (and often) are read stand alone, you sometimes can make clear that reading from top to bottom is more natural, then scrolling down, scrolling up, read, scrolling down, scrolling up, read, etc. Moreover, most top posters don't snip anything, so the posting has a huge huge trail of garbage dangling under it, wasting bandwidth, which we pay for in the end. And all for a quick and free reply :-( and only rarely receive such complaints when I top post. Again, I apologize but for now anyway, it will likely continue. Print a random top posted message out, and try to make sense of it. You will discover why it's annoying. Most top posters see Usenet as a help desk, and every reply to their message as especially written for them, almost like a private message. They prefer to have the answer on top, since that's what they are looking for. But it makes it way harder for people who start reading in a thread in the middle (e.g. because they found it using Google groups). People who insist on top posting are often egoists who only are "here" for the free help, and contribute zilch. It's a pitty that some well known MVPs, and I recall that P stands for professional, serve Usenet postings as those egoists seem to prefer, not caring about all those people who read their reply weeks, months, or more later, and have a hard time making sense of it. The Google archive of this group, and very likely similar MS groups are huge collections of junk, bandwidth waste, and bad communication. In short, unusable. Somehow those trigger happy people prefer to repeat the same answer, on top, over and over again instead of pointing to a excellent piece of softwa Google groups. Apologies for this rant, but I hope some others will rethink their posting behaviour. In the end it will save up some bandwidth, and makes the archives more readable, and hence, makes Usenet work. -- John Bokma Want to record a webcam session? See: http://johnbokma.com/messenger/capturingwebcam.html Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/ Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html |
#25
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Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:
Well, I tried a compromise and that doesn't seem acceptable either. Reread my email instead of being a bone head. individuals who post to these newsgroups from the Microsoft web interface, Yeah, another piece of junk that cripples Usenet. MS is good at crippling software, even their own stuff. most of the posts will not be formatted according to your desires or what is considered proper etiquette for Usenet. Yup, because the software is junk. I'm not trying to be obtuse or argumentative, I did after all, attempt to compromise with you and in the case of larger posts, I do, quite often reply inline but even that didn't work for you because of signature placement, something I would have to change specifically any time I replied to you. So you spit out your garbage and let me clean it up. So, yeah, you are more then worthy of the title MVP. I do apologize but I guess you'll just have to place me in your killfile if this is unacceptable to you. I'd just point out, more and more users who reach these groups did not start out on Usenet and often find reading bottom posted messages annoying as well. I don't say post bottom, there is an alternative, post *inline* and remove all unwanted lines. -- John Bokma Want to record a webcam session? See: http://johnbokma.com/messenger/capturingwebcam.html Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/ Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html |
#26
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I see no reason for you to insult me. You were polite in your request and I
attempted to accommodate as best I could, especially given what you yourself know to be the limitations of the application I am using. I don't care what you think of Microsoft or their products, I may even share some of your opinion. However, I treated you with respect and went out of my way to try to accommodate your request. I see nothing in anything I've said that would or should in any way provoke the sort of personal insults in your last post. If you have any complaints about me or things I have posted, I know the MVP Program is always interested hearing any such complaints about the MVPs. You can send any complaints to: -- In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol. Michael Solomon MS-MVP Windows Shell/User https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx Backup is a PC User's Best Friend DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/ "John Bokma" wrote in message ... Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote: Well, I tried a compromise and that doesn't seem acceptable either. Reread my email instead of being a bone head. individuals who post to these newsgroups from the Microsoft web interface, Yeah, another piece of junk that cripples Usenet. MS is good at crippling software, even their own stuff. most of the posts will not be formatted according to your desires or what is considered proper etiquette for Usenet. Yup, because the software is junk. I'm not trying to be obtuse or argumentative, I did after all, attempt to compromise with you and in the case of larger posts, I do, quite often reply inline but even that didn't work for you because of signature placement, something I would have to change specifically any time I replied to you. So you spit out your garbage and let me clean it up. So, yeah, you are more then worthy of the title MVP. I do apologize but I guess you'll just have to place me in your killfile if this is unacceptable to you. I'd just point out, more and more users who reach these groups did not start out on Usenet and often find reading bottom posted messages annoying as well. I don't say post bottom, there is an alternative, post *inline* and remove all unwanted lines. -- John Bokma Want to record a webcam session? See: http://johnbokma.com/messenger/capturingwebcam.html Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/ Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html |
#27
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Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:
I see no reason for you to insult me. You were polite in your request and I attempted to accommodate as best I could, especially given what you yourself know to be the limitations of the application I am using. First of all: I used OE for years to post on Usenet. And never mangled my messages in the way you do. Second: are you forced to use OE to mess up the Usenet? If you have any complaints about me or things I have posted, I know the MVP Program is always interested hearing any such complaints about the MVPs. You can send any complaints to: Yeah, Microsoft. They are not interested in Usenet, since they can't commercially exploit it. Why else do you think OE has well know bugs for over 5 years? Bugs that mess up messages and waste bandwidth and in the end costs every user of Usenet money? -- John Bokma Want to record a webcam session? See: http://johnbokma.com/messenger/capturingwebcam.html Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/ Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html |
#28
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Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:
I see no reason for you to insult me. You started insulting me by top posting again. Also you keep on using a flawed Usenet client, and misplace a signature on purpose forcing other people with a decent news client to do more work. You insult every reader of your messages by insisting on using a piece of junk. So much for the P in MVP. -- John Bokma Want to record a webcam session? See: http://johnbokma.com/messenger/capturingwebcam.html Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/ Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html |
#29
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I think Microsoft provides these groups for people to get peer support =
for their products. Providing help is the important thing, and top = posting has always been the norm. I think inline and bottom posting is = a total waste of time in most replies. Even when you search Google, it = is easier with the reply at the top - much faster. I don't subscribe to = Usenet, only Microsoft News. All my other newsgroups are web based. -- mae=20 "Michael Solomon (MS-MVP)" wrote in message = ... | Well, I tried a compromise and that doesn't seem acceptable either. = You=20 | need look no further than my properties to know I'm using Outlook = Express=20 | for posting. I'd also point out, with the heavy volume of individuals = who=20 | post to these newsgroups from the Microsoft web interface, most of the = posts=20 | will not be formatted according to your desires or what is considered = proper=20 | etiquette for Usenet. ----snip---|=20 | "John Bokma" wrote in message=20 | ... | | "John Bokma" wrote in message | ... |
#30
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"John Bokma" wrote in message ... Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote: I see no reason for you to insult me. You started insulting me by top posting again. Also you keep on using a flawed Usenet client, and misplace a signature on purpose forcing other people with a decent news client to do more work. You insult every reader of your messages by insisting on using a piece of junk. So much for the P in MVP. -- John Bokma Want to record a webcam session? See: http://johnbokma.com/messenger/capturingwebcam.html Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/ Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html Well, this is an interesting conundrum. The very act of a reply from me is by your definition an insult because of, among other things, the newsreader I am using. I never intended to insult you, not from the very beginning and you know that. Since my choice of newsreader, the method and format with which I post (which is perfectly readable to me in both Outlook Express-technically, the Outlook Newsreader-and Xnews) is deemed by you to be an insult, this is my last post in this thread and I can only suggest you simply avoid my posts in this and other Microsoft newsgroups in the future. I never meant to insult you and I sincerely apologize if I have in any way done so. Michael Solomon MS-MVP Windows Shell/User https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx Backup is a PC User's Best Friend DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/ |
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