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#1
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32 programs
I have a x64 professional. Now I don't know if running programs in DOS
or win98 mode would help me run some applications or not. Would trying to run DOS programs like for 98 and lower say DOS 6.2x work in a certain mode on XP? Or because I'm running a 64-bit OS would these programs not work? Bill |
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#2
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32 programs
You can run 32-bit software on Win64. You can't
run 16-bit software. For that you need Win16 or Win32. "Bill Cunningham" wrote in message ... | I have a x64 professional. Now I don't know if running programs in DOS | or win98 mode would help me run some applications or not. Would trying to | run DOS programs like for 98 and lower say DOS 6.2x work in a certain mode | on XP? Or because I'm running a 64-bit OS would these programs not work? | | Bill | | |
#3
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32 programs
Bill Cunningham wrote:
I have a x64 professional. Now I don't know if running programs in DOS or win98 mode would help me run some applications or not. Would trying to run DOS programs like for 98 and lower say DOS 6.2x work in a certain mode on XP? Or because I'm running a 64-bit OS would these programs not work? Bill Microsoft only provides the next level down of WOW (Windows On Windows so-called) on their OSes. So in this table "Normal+WOW" is what runs. The program loader knows when WOW is needed. OS Normal WOW Won't work x64 64 bit 32 bit 16 bit x86 32 bit 16 bit Not Applicable This means, on my Win8.1 x64 install, I can't run the 16bit md5sum.exe I've used on the other machines. I think so far, that's the only program I use a lot, which isn't portable. In some cases, when a failure happens, it's actually the program installer which is 16 bit, and the installation cannot run. The actual program being installed, might actually be 32 bit, and it would have worked... if only the developer had spent the money for a real installer package. I think there is at least one installer, which is free, which might be the source of the problem there. ******* You could install virtual PC software, and host a 32 bit OS. But if you actually had a license for an OS, it would be about as much good, to do a dual boot installation. The VM environment isn't perfect, when it comes to video properties - your game of Crysis would run like molasses (in VIrtualBox) or not run at all (in VPC2007). If you want VMs to play with, these will run for a month or so, and they have no license key. They're not activated, and after the grace period is up, you start all over again, by unzipping the download again and using it (do not throw away the downloaded files!). I keep a few of these, and have WinXP/Vista/Win7 for VPC2007. I recommend selecting one VM environment and sticking with it (for portability). On this machine, I use VPC2007, and that means not bothering with VirtualBox. VirtualBox has some advantages, but the controls are "pretty brittle". VPC2007 allows a lot more mixing and matching. The settings never hold me back in VPC2007. But the counterpoint would be, I have USB passthru in VirtualBox, so I could say, run an ancient USB scanner inside there. Something I could not do in VPC2007. https://www.modern.ie/en-us/virtuali...ools#downloads So if I had WinXP SP2 x64, I'd get a copy of VPC2007, bring it up to date (program is about 16MB or so), download an OS (Windows7 x32 would be a good choice). It's quite possible that all the OSes on modern.ie are 32 bit, so you don't have much choice in the matter. An OS can be up to a 4GB total download, as four files. The advantage of the Win7 x32 one would be, that after the grace period is up, it'll run for short periods of time before it just reboots itself. Which is suitable for experiments in the 30 minute range. But not suitable as an all-day OS. With the WinXP machine, after the grace period is up, it uses nag screens to drive you away, and you have to start afresh. There is also DOSBox, but I've never used it, or even read up on it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dosbox HTH, Paul |
#4
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On Sat, 13 Dec 2014 16:27:17 -0500, Bill Cunningham wrote:
I have a x64 professional. Now I don't know if running programs in DOS or win98 mode would help me run some applications or not. Would trying to run DOS programs like for 98 and lower say DOS 6.2x work in a certain mode on XP? Or because I'm running a 64-bit OS would these programs not work? Bill All 64-bit version of Windows do not have the capability to run 16-bit programs. 16-bit programs include pure DOS programs, and Windows 3.x programs. Windows 9x/ME GUI programs are 32-bit. Those that are 16-bit are made for Windows 3.x, which is still runnable in Windows 9x/ME as well as 32-bit Windows NT. Most Windows 9x/ME programs that don't provide their own device driver (such as anti virus, firewall, disk/system utility) would run in 64-bit Windows. Programs that utilize obsolete OS feature(s), won't run in 64-bit Windows. Mostly, these are system utilities. Under 64-bit Windows, you'll have to use either DosBox or a VM (e.g. VirtualBox, VMWare, QEMU) to run DOS programs. But for Windows 3.x programs, you'll have to use a VM with Windows 3.x guest. |
#5
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32 programs
"JJ" wrote in message ... [...] Under 64-bit Windows, you'll have to use either DosBox or a VM (e.g. VirtualBox, VMWare, QEMU) to run DOS programs. But for Windows 3.x programs, you'll have to use a VM with Windows 3.x guest. I have virtual box and something called "...2007" from MS. I have qemu in linux to. But don't know how to use it. The binary format descriptor of these old files is MZ or NZ. Is that even older than NE ? Most everything in windows I've seen is win32 -PE or a 32 bit dos program. Bill |
#6
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On Sat, 13 Dec 2014 19:33:56 -0500, Bill Cunningham wrote:
I have virtual box and something called "...2007" from MS. I have qemu in linux to. What you got there is likely VirtualPC 2007 (VirtualBox is from Oracle, BTW). But don't know how to use it. A VM is basically a computer hardware virtualized, emulated, and/or simulated as a software - including its peripherals such as floppy disk drives, CD-ROM drives, hard drives, COM/LPT ports, etc. - GUI Window will be used for the emulated monitor screen. - Your current keyboard and mouse will be used for the emulated keyboard and mouse. - Floppy, harddisk and CD-ROM images will be used for the emulated floppy/harddisk/CD-ROM. - Your current audio device (e.g. Realtek) will be used for the emulated PC speaker as well as the emulated physical audio device (e.g. SoundBlaster). - The emulated system's COM/LPT ports can be mapped to your system's physical COM/LPT ports, or to a file. Starting a VM will boot the emulated computer. What you'll see in the GUI window will be just like the view of a real system, except that the displayed BIOS POST would be different. Check the VM software's offline help to learn how to use it. I'd suggest using VirtualPC for beginners, though - cause it's MUCH simpler and easier to use than QEMU and VirtualBox. If you use VM to run DOS or Windows 3.x programs, you'll need the actual DOS or Windows 3.x files. For DOS, you can use FreeDOS or unofficial MS-DOS boot disks lying around the net. For Windows 3.x, there's no alternative; the real Windows 3.x or 32-bit Windows is required. The binary format descriptor of these old files is MZ or NZ. Is that even older than NE ? Most everything in windows I've seen is win32 -PE or a 32 bit dos program. MZ is the DOS EXE format (no NZ, BTW). EXE format can have an extension which can be: - NE: Windows 3.x programs (16-bit). - PE: 32-bit Windows program. - LE: Windows device driver (32-bit). - W3/W4: WIN386.EXE/VMM32.VXD; 32-bit Windows kernel with a collection of device drivers (for fast loading). - LX: IBM OS/2 device driver. - ...and some other extensions for protected-mode DOS extenders. So, an EXE is actually dual platform. One is for DOS, and one is for the EXE extension (the other platform). One good example is the REGEDIT.EXE from Windows 9x/ME. If you run it from Windows, the Windows part of the code will be run as GUI. If you run it from pure DOS (i.e. not from a DOS box), the DOS part of the code will be run - which is a command-line program. |
#7
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"JJ" wrote in message ... MZ is the DOS EXE format (no NZ, BTW). EXE format can have an extension which can be: - NE: Windows 3.x programs (16-bit). - PE: 32-bit Windows program. - LE: Windows device driver (32-bit). - W3/W4: WIN386.EXE/VMM32.VXD; 32-bit Windows kernel with a collection of device drivers (for fast loading). - LX: IBM OS/2 device driver. - ...and some other extensions for protected-mode DOS extenders. So, an EXE is actually dual platform. One is for DOS, and one is for the EXE extension (the other platform). One good example is the REGEDIT.EXE from Windows 9x/ME. If you run it from Windows, the Windows part of the code will be run as GUI. If you run it from pure DOS (i.e. not from a DOS box), the DOS part of the code will be run - which is a command-line program. Nice. I wondered about kernel components in dos 6.xx and win98 I believe there was gui.dat and user.dat. At least that's the only kernel file I remember. Now I don't know about XP much less newer versions of win. What's XP'x kernel components? Bill |
#8
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Oh yes and I have used virtual box with no problem. I have virtualPC2007
(just like you mentioned) but never tried it. The QEMU I have on linux I haven't figured out yet. I don't know if it's for gui or cli. There's something called KVM too that is associated with it. Bill |
#9
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On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 15:42:57 -0500, Bill Cunningham wrote:
Oh yes and I have used virtual box with no problem. I have virtualPC2007 (just like you mentioned) but never tried it. If you're already familiar with VirtualBox, then you won't be having trouble using VirtualPC. The QEMU I have on linux I haven't figured out yet. I don't know if it's for gui or cli. There's something called KVM too that is associated with it. Bill In linux, QEMU is a CLI program. All custom VM configurations must be specified via command-line parameters or in a configuration file. QEMU doesn't provide any interface to setup the configurations, so you'll have to use a third party frontend: http://wiki.qemu.org/Links#GUI_Front_Ends KVM is a module to allow QEMU to use hardware assisted virtualization for faster performance. i.e. CPUs with virtualization feature. If KVM is not used, emulation mode will be used - which is quite slower. VirtualBox core is based on QEMU and its default mode is virtualization if it's supported by the CPU. Having VirtualBox is pretty much like having QEMU. IMO, it's better considering that VirtualBox development progress is faster than QEMU and it's more comfortable to use too. So, I don't see any reason to use QEMU except for research, or if VirtualBox doesn't work for any reason. |
#10
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On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 15:40:34 -0500, Bill Cunningham wrote:
Nice. I wondered about kernel components in dos 6.xx and win98 I believe there was gui.dat and user.dat. At least that's the only kernel file I remember. Now I don't know about XP much less newer versions of win. What's XP'x kernel components? Bill MS-DOS 6.x and older versions' kernel is in MSDOS.SYS. It's a binary code and don't use MZ format nor the format used by DOS decive drivers such as HIMEM.SYS, ANSI.SYS, etc. It's loaded after IO.SYS which contains the default device drivers for basic I/O. MS-DOS 7.x kernel that came with Windows 9x/ME is only in IO.SYS (basic I/O driver and kernel are merged into one file) and it uses the MZ format. Its MSDOS.SYS file is used only for boot configuration. Windows 9x/ME USER.DAT and SYSTEM.DAT are Windows registry files. They're not kernel files, but the SYSTEM.DAT stores the hardware and other OS configurations that are used to boot into Windows. Windows 2000/XP kernel files are also split into two several files. It's beginning to get complicated when it comes to Windows NT (this includes the latest Windows 8.1). I'd suggest you check below Wikipedia article. (warning: long URL) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT_startup_process#Loading_the_Windows_NT_ kernel In short, there are two files for two stages of kernel: NTOSKRNL.EXE and WIN32K.SYS. Similar article for PC-DOS: (Note: PC-DOS' IBMBIO.COM functionality is same as MS-DOS' IO.SYS, and IBMDOS.COM is same as MSDOS.SYS in MS-DOS 6.x and older). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBMBIO.COM For Windows 9x/ME: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architecture_of_Windows_9x#Boot_sequence |
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