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Installing Software BS



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 17th 19, 08:32 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Bill Bradshaw
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Posts: 282
Default Installing Software BS

Running Windows 10 Pro 32 bit just updated to 1809. Why do I have to be
connected to the internet to install software? If I am not connected the
install programs go crazy and I end up having to do a hard shutdown of the
computer. I want to stop this BS.
--
Bill

Brought to you from Anchorage, Alaska


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  #2  
Old February 17th 19, 08:48 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Installing Software BS

Bill Bradshaw wrote:
Running Windows 10 Pro 32 bit just updated to 1809. Why do I have to be
connected to the internet to install software? If I am not connected the
install programs go crazy and I end up having to do a hard shutdown of the
computer. I want to stop this BS.


You can download an 1809 DVD and install, with the network cable
pulled out of the machine.

I've installed OSes with no network connection.

Since 1903 is coming soon, you can test your skills
with that image when it comes available. Wait two or three days
after 1903 is available as a DVD, download it, and install it.
I do *all* my Win10 upgrades that way. I've never had
Windows Update deliver one yet.

If doing an in-place OS Upgrade, you don't even need to
burn a DVD. Right-click the downloaded ISO file (Windows10_x64.iso)
and it can be mounted like a virtual DVD drive. Run "setup.exe"
off the virtual DVD drive, to start an OS Upgrade running. The
first phase is file copying. After it does its first reboot,
the virtual DVD will no longer be mounted and the install
will complete using the files it copied to the hard drive.

The installer will tell you that your Programs and Data will
be preserved during the Upgrade. The Windows folder becomes
Windows.old and it will self-delete after a few weeks. (Or, you
can for now at least, use cleanmgr.exe to remove it. Cleanmgr
may be deprecated at some point, and you never know, might
not be in 1903 for all I know.) Some brain-dead Storage Spaces
implementation might (poorly) take its place. But since we
can't count on the Insider Edition to actually test what
is in a Release, who really knows what the feature set or
lineup will be. Insider != Release. Why is there an Insider
Edition ? We're not sure.

After the OS comes up, from a Clean install, it can then
connect to the Internet and fetch drivers. Not all the
drivers needed are in-box. Class drivers will be there
(the USB3 driver should be on the DVD). But a driver for
a newer graphics might not be.

Paul
  #3  
Old February 18th 19, 02:26 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Nil[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,731
Default Installing Software BS

On 17 Feb 2019, "Bill Bradshaw" wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-10:

Running Windows 10 Pro 32 bit just updated to 1809. Why do I have
to be connected to the internet to install software? If I am not
connected the install programs go crazy and I end up having to do
a hard shutdown of the computer. I want to stop this BS.


What software are you complaing about? You do not need to be connected
to the Internet to install most software if you have the full
installation program. If you only have a stub that then needs to
download the installation program... well, I think you can figure that
part out.

  #4  
Old February 18th 19, 05:08 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Peter Johnson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 50
Default Installing Software BS

On Sun, 17 Feb 2019 20:26:25 -0500, Nil
wrote:

On 17 Feb 2019, "Bill Bradshaw" wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-10:

Running Windows 10 Pro 32 bit just updated to 1809. Why do I have
to be connected to the internet to install software? If I am not
connected the install programs go crazy and I end up having to do
a hard shutdown of the computer. I want to stop this BS.


What software are you complaing about? You do not need to be connected
to the Internet to install most software if you have the full
installation program. If you only have a stub that then needs to
download the installation program... well, I think you can figure that
part out.


But some software downloads these days comprise only a download
manager in a shell that downloads the elements required for the user's
installation.
  #5  
Old February 18th 19, 06:31 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Bill Bradshaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 282
Default Installing Software BS

1809 installed properly and seems to be working fine. The problem is
installing utility programs that are freeware. I even had a problem trying
to install the portable version of WinCDEmu (I gave up). I run into this
problem where the screen just starts flashing and the computer locks up.
Peter may have the answer. Now how would I determine if the freeware is
just a download manager? I should have been clearer with my original post.

Bill

Paul wrote:
Bill Bradshaw wrote:
Running Windows 10 Pro 32 bit just updated to 1809. Why do I have
to be connected to the internet to install software? If I am not
connected the install programs go crazy and I end up having to do a
hard shutdown of the computer. I want to stop this BS.


You can download an 1809 DVD and install, with the network cable
pulled out of the machine.

I've installed OSes with no network connection.

Since 1903 is coming soon, you can test your skills
with that image when it comes available. Wait two or three days
after 1903 is available as a DVD, download it, and install it.
I do *all* my Win10 upgrades that way. I've never had
Windows Update deliver one yet.

If doing an in-place OS Upgrade, you don't even need to
burn a DVD. Right-click the downloaded ISO file (Windows10_x64.iso)
and it can be mounted like a virtual DVD drive. Run "setup.exe"
off the virtual DVD drive, to start an OS Upgrade running. The
first phase is file copying. After it does its first reboot,
the virtual DVD will no longer be mounted and the install
will complete using the files it copied to the hard drive.

The installer will tell you that your Programs and Data will
be preserved during the Upgrade. The Windows folder becomes
Windows.old and it will self-delete after a few weeks. (Or, you
can for now at least, use cleanmgr.exe to remove it. Cleanmgr
may be deprecated at some point, and you never know, might
not be in 1903 for all I know.) Some brain-dead Storage Spaces
implementation might (poorly) take its place. But since we
can't count on the Insider Edition to actually test what
is in a Release, who really knows what the feature set or
lineup will be. Insider != Release. Why is there an Insider
Edition ? We're not sure.

After the OS comes up, from a Clean install, it can then
connect to the Internet and fetch drivers. Not all the
drivers needed are in-box. Class drivers will be there
(the USB3 driver should be on the DVD). But a driver for
a newer graphics might not be.

Paul



  #6  
Old February 18th 19, 06:56 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Installing Software BS

"Bill Bradshaw" wrote

| Running Windows 10 Pro 32 bit just updated to 1809. Why do I have to be
| connected to the internet to install software? If I am not connected the
| install programs go crazy and I end up having to do a hard shutdown of the
| computer. I want to stop this BS.

I don't know about Win10 updates. Paul probably
has the definitive answer there. But for anything else,
search for "offline installer download". Most things have
a so-called offline installer, which just means a real
install package and not just a kick-off stub. But often
those are semi-hidden, only meant for IT people making
multiple installs.

Why?

1) It allows non-techies to install software without having
to understand where the download went or what to do with it.

2) It furthers the marketing of the services myth, making
it appear that you're using a remote product as a service.

3) It establishes the precedent that it's normal to allow software
to call home.

So it's both good and bad. It's intrusive and a territory
grab, but part of the reason is because most people have
no idea how to do anything more than click a button that
says, "Install".

Most software will work without calling home but I just
came across some very sleazy behavior yesterday: I haven't
been using Visual C++ 2008 Express so I thought I'd get
rid of it to save space. The uninstaller claimed there was
an error after I blocked it from going online. Vague, pseudo-
technical language that basically said, "No can do." I was
forced to uninstall by just deleting the program folder and
the Uninstall key in the Registry.
And that was Microsoft. They're producing unforgiveably
broken uninstallers. (I didn't need to be online when I
installed it.)

Personally I just refuse to use anything that has to
call home. But most things only try to call home
clandestinely and give up silently if they can't. That's
the radical change with Win10: If you ever go online
then you can't stop the spyware. MS even claim that
by using the product you've agreed to that. It's the
famous unilateral software license.


  #7  
Old February 18th 19, 07:15 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Installing Software BS

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| Running Windows 10 Pro 32 bit just updated to 1809. Why do I have to be
| connected to the internet to install software? If I am not connected the
| install programs go crazy and I end up having to do a hard shutdown of the
| computer. I want to stop this BS.

I don't know about Win10 updates. Paul probably
has the definitive answer there. But for anything else,
search for "offline installer download". Most things have
a so-called offline installer, which just means a real
install package and not just a kick-off stub. But often
those are semi-hidden, only meant for IT people making
multiple installs.

Why?

1) It allows non-techies to install software without having
to understand where the download went or what to do with it.


true, and that's a very good thing.

making things easier to use benefits everyone.

there's no reason why computers (or anything) should be hard to use,
other than lazy developers.

2) It furthers the marketing of the services myth, making
it appear that you're using a remote product as a service.


no.

3) It establishes the precedent that it's normal to allow software
to call home.


software has been calling home for decades.

the real reason for stub installers is it makes the initial download
quick and the actual install faster than it otherwise would have been
because it won't need to download components that aren't needed.

that's a benefit to the user and also for the developer.

So it's both good and bad. It's intrusive and a territory
grab, but part of the reason is because most people have
no idea how to do anything more than click a button that
says, "Install".


that's all they need to know to install something.

there's no reason why computers (or anything) should be hard to use,
other than lazy developers.
  #8  
Old February 18th 19, 07:21 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
MikeS[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 74
Default Installing Software BS

On 18/02/2019 17:31, Bill Bradshaw wrote:
1809 installed properly and seems to be working fine. The problem is
installing utility programs that are freeware. I even had a problem trying
to install the portable version of WinCDEmu (I gave up). I run into this
problem where the screen just starts flashing and the computer locks up.
Peter may have the answer. Now how would I determine if the freeware is
just a download manager? I should have been clearer with my original post.

Bill

Paul wrote:
Bill Bradshaw wrote:
Running Windows 10 Pro 32 bit just updated to 1809. Why do I have
to be connected to the internet to install software? If I am not
connected the install programs go crazy and I end up having to do a
hard shutdown of the computer. I want to stop this BS.


You can download an 1809 DVD and install, with the network cable
pulled out of the machine.

I've installed OSes with no network connection.

Since 1903 is coming soon, you can test your skills
with that image when it comes available. Wait two or three days
after 1903 is available as a DVD, download it, and install it.
I do *all* my Win10 upgrades that way. I've never had
Windows Update deliver one yet.

If doing an in-place OS Upgrade, you don't even need to
burn a DVD. Right-click the downloaded ISO file (Windows10_x64.iso)
and it can be mounted like a virtual DVD drive. Run "setup.exe"
off the virtual DVD drive, to start an OS Upgrade running. The
first phase is file copying. After it does its first reboot,
the virtual DVD will no longer be mounted and the install
will complete using the files it copied to the hard drive.

The installer will tell you that your Programs and Data will
be preserved during the Upgrade. The Windows folder becomes
Windows.old and it will self-delete after a few weeks. (Or, you
can for now at least, use cleanmgr.exe to remove it. Cleanmgr
may be deprecated at some point, and you never know, might
not be in 1903 for all I know.) Some brain-dead Storage Spaces
implementation might (poorly) take its place. But since we
can't count on the Insider Edition to actually test what
is in a Release, who really knows what the feature set or
lineup will be. Insider != Release. Why is there an Insider
Edition ? We're not sure.

After the OS comes up, from a Clean install, it can then
connect to the Internet and fetch drivers. Not all the
drivers needed are in-box. Class drivers will be there
(the USB3 driver should be on the DVD). But a driver for
a newer graphics might not be.

Paul



You should be blaming the freeware provider, not Windows.

As noted in other posts you may have downloaded only a stub installer.
Worse, your freeware may have a proper install file but is downloading
and installing other "useful" programs you never knew you needed and did
not request.


  #9  
Old February 18th 19, 08:11 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Andy Burns[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default Installing Software BS

Nil wrote:

What software are you complaing about? You do not need to be connected
to the Internet to install most software


It might warn you that it can't check it with smartscreen, though you
can disable that ...
  #10  
Old February 18th 19, 09:15 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Installing Software BS

Bill Bradshaw wrote:
1809 installed properly and seems to be working fine. The problem is
installing utility programs that are freeware. I even had a problem trying
to install the portable version of WinCDEmu (I gave up). I run into this
problem where the screen just starts flashing and the computer locks up.
Peter may have the answer. Now how would I determine if the freeware is
just a download manager? I should have been clearer with my original post.

Bill


The size of the download is an indication it's a stub.

A 3MB file is not Firefox. Firefox is maybe 40MB or 50MB.

A 5MB file is not Macrium. Macrium is 50MB main program, 800MB WinPE kit.

The size in some cases indicates it's a stub.

Imgburn is 5MB. Full install. But at one time contained Adware.
So some programs are small enough, to be in the same ballpark
as a stub.

And you know a stub doesn't have to be all that big. I could
probably write a "downloader" and have it fit in 100K, if
it wasn't "full of crap".

*******

You don't need a CD emulator, since Windows 10 mounts .iso
files via right-clicking and selecting the top item.

So lets try an analysis.

http://wincdemu.sysprogs.org/

First question. Is that *really* the author of the program,
or a leech. OK, I can find...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wincdemu

https://www.pcworld.com/article/233375/wincdemu.html

A URL check gives green cherries.

https://www.virustotal.com/#/url/a02...0d54/detection

Now we get a download and toss it into Virustotal.

http://wincdemu.sysprogs.org/download/

1,576,544 bytes

https://www.virustotal.com/#/file/c4...5dc93c/details

It's full of green cherries, but the config shows this.

"TRiD
UPX compressed Win32 Executable (38.2%)
Win32 EXE Yoda's Crypter (37.5%)
"

Smells funny. Why is that necessary exactly ? I can understand
UPX, but not the Yoda. It's a stub FFS. There's no intellectual
property in there. And the download comes from github, so it's
not like the bandwidth used to provide the EXE, costs the sysprogs.org
site any money. Smells funny.

And the worst part is, the Virustotal scanners are pretending they're
actually scanning that thing. About 1/3rd of the scanners can't
scan the [0] from that file.

"If you won't let me look at it, I ain't installing it."

Pretty simple. Lots of legit software gets rejected
here, for being "too clever by half".

Paul
 




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