Password hints and settings

On 11/17/19 2:17 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:

I was forced to create an MS account just to complete this install.

They keep making it *appear* that you must create an MS account, but it
isn't the case, the latest install required cutting-off access to the
WiFi when it attempts to create the MS account, at which point it gives
up and allows you to use a local account ...

Paul accomplishes the same thing by disconnecting the Ethernet cable.

Just wait, I suspect they'll eventually want to remove both these
methods. But then, like owning a Mac, you're screwed if you don't have
internet access for much of the things a computer can do.


--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Firefox 69.0.2
Thunderbird 60.9
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

In article , Ken Springer
wrote:

I was forced to create an MS account just to complete this install.

They keep making it *appear* that you must create an MS account, but it
isn't the case, the latest install required cutting-off access to the
WiFi when it attempts to create the MS account, at which point it gives
up and allows you to use a local account ...

Paul accomplishes the same thing by disconnecting the Ethernet cable.

Just wait, I suspect they'll eventually want to remove both these
methods.

if they did, they would have already done so.

But then, like owning a Mac, you're screwed if you don't have
internet access for much of the things a computer can do.

not really.

quite a bit can be done entirely offline with macos, windows, ios and
android, including editing photos and videos (or just viewing), reading
ebooks, writing documents, playing most games and much, much more.

chromebooks, on the other hand, need internet access. without that,
they are severely crippled.

Ken Springer wrote:

Paul accomplishes the same thing by disconnecting the Ethernet cable.

Yes, this was on a Surface Go ... no ethernet

nospam wrote:

quite a bit can be done entirely offline with macos, windows, ios
and
android, including editing photos and videos (or just viewing),
reading
ebooks, writing documents, playing most games and much, much more.

You say Android can do quite a bit offline (above)? Agreed.

chromebooks, on the other hand, need internet access. without that,
they are severely crippled.

Modern Chromebooks run Android (mine included) and are not any more
crippled than most other Android devices when offline...

On 11/17/19 8:44 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:

Paul accomplishes the same thing by disconnecting the Ethernet cable.

Yes, this was on a Surface Go ... no ethernet

What probably bothers me the most, it the effort to keep people for from
realizing they don't have to have to have an MS Account in order to
install W10.


--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Firefox 69.0.2
Thunderbird 60.9
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

In article ,
123456789 wrote:


quite a bit can be done entirely offline with macos, windows, ios
and
android, including editing photos and videos (or just viewing),
reading
ebooks, writing documents, playing most games and much, much more.

You say Android can do quite a bit offline (above)? Agreed.

chromebooks, on the other hand, need internet access. without that,
they are severely crippled.

Modern Chromebooks run Android (mine included) and are not any more
crippled than most other Android devices when offline...

running android apps on a chromebook effectively makes it a very big
(and not particularly good) android device, and therefore falls into
the android category.

when running chromeos, which is what it normally does and was designed
to do, it needs the internet, and although chromebooks do have local
storage, there's not a lot that can be done without being connected.

nospam wrote:
123456789 wrote:
nospam wrote:

quite a bit can be done entirely offline with macos, windows, ios
and android, including editing photos and videos (or just
viewing), reading ebooks, writing documents, playing most games
and much, much more.

running android apps on a chromebook effectively makes it a very big

My Chromebook has a 12" screen which makes it the biggest screen of all
my devices that run Android apps. For "editing photos and videos"
"writing documents" "playing most games" (your words above) a bigger
screen is generally better IMO.

(and not particularly good) android device,

Have you now acquired a Chromebook? When we last chatted on the subject
you had no experience with the device.

and therefore falls into the android category.

To which you said about Android (above): "quite a bit can be done
entirely offline". I agree...

when running chromeos, which is what it normally does and was
designed to do,

That was true years ago. Not with recent models though.

it needs the internet,

Not any more than any other Android app running device needs the Internet.

and although chromebooks do have local storage, there's not a lot
that can be done without being connected.

You seem to disagree with yourself. You said above about Android: "quite
a bit can be done entirely offline". I agree...

In article , 123456789
wrote:

when running chromeos, which is what it normally does and was
designed to do,

That was true years ago. Not with recent models though.

it's still true.

chromebooks are designed for chromeos.

just because android apps can be used to a certain extent, some more
than others, it doesn't make it an android device.

it needs the internet,

Not any more than any other Android app running device needs the Internet.

because it's running android apps, and therefore subject to the
limitations of android (and on a chromebook), not chromeos.

and although chromebooks do have local storage, there's not a lot
that can be done without being connected.

You seem to disagree with yourself. You said above about Android: "quite
a bit can be done entirely offline". I agree...

chromeos, not android.

nospam wrote:
123456789 wrote:
nospam wrote:

quite a bit can be done entirely offline with macos, windows, ios
and android, including editing photos and videos (or just
viewing), reading ebooks, writing documents, playing most games
and much, much more.

although chromebooks do have local storage, there's not a lot
that can be done without being connected.

You seem to disagree with yourself. You said above about Android:
"quite a bit can be done entirely offline". I agree...

chromeos, not android.

Chromebooks run Android apps. Android OS runs Android apps.

You said (above) Android is good for offline use. Then you said (above)
Chromebooks [that run Android apps] can't do much offline. Still seems a
bit contradictory to me...

FWIW I have two similarly priced devices. A Samsung Chromebook Pro and a
Samsung Galaxy Tab S4. They both work comparably with Android apps.
There are some differences of course. For example the Galaxy tablet
won't run the Android app CrossOver that the Chromebook will. (CrossOver
is an Android Windows emulator. Lets me run Thunderbird on the
Chromebook. Very handy since all Android newsreaders suck IMO.) But for
the most part running Android apps on either device is pretty much the
same experience for me, online or offline. YMMV. Or maybe not since you
don't even have the device upon which you comment...

In article , 123456789
wrote:


Chromebooks run Android apps. Android OS runs Android apps.

they can, but that's not their normal use case and you know it.

however, if they do, it's in the android category, not the chromebook,
aka *chromeos* category.

nospam wrote:
123456789 wrote:

Chromebooks run Android apps. Android OS runs Android apps.

they can, but that's not their normal use case and you know it.

If by "normal use case" you mean how most of the public (like me) use
their modern store bought Chromebooks then I disagree. Why wouldn't
every owner take advantage of the millions of Android apps now available
(in addition to the Chrome OS apps).

If by "normal use case" you mean how commercially purchased Chromebooks
are used in schools I agree. I believe most of those are the traditional
Chromebooks and are used mainly online.

however, if they do, it's in the android category, not the
chromebook, aka *chromeos* category.

Category was not the issue. I just disagreed with you that Chromebooks
weren't useful offline. They are. To further my point I wrote this post
offline. And observe: You can still see my fantastically credible
rhetoric...

In article , 123456789
wrote:

Chromebooks run Android apps. Android OS runs Android apps.

they can, but that's not their normal use case and you know it.

If by "normal use case" you mean how most of the public (like me) use
their modern store bought Chromebooks then I disagree. Why wouldn't
every owner take advantage of the millions of Android apps now available
(in addition to the Chrome OS apps).

because they don't work particularly well.

If by "normal use case" you mean how commercially purchased Chromebooks
are used in schools I agree. I believe most of those are the traditional
Chromebooks and are used mainly online.

that's the typical use case for a chromebook, and not just in schools.

nospam wrote:
123456789 wrote:

Why wouldn't every [Chromebook] owner take advantage of
the millions of Android apps now available

because they don't work particularly well.

Actually Android apps work very well on this Chromebook.
Modern apps (like Smartnews) work in either portrait or
landscape mode and give a me a full 12" laptop widescreen
display. Older apps (like NPR news), designed for phones and
tablets, only work in portrait mode. For those I have two
choices. Turn this 2 in 1 Chromebook into tablet mode for a
full screen 12" tablet experience, or leave it in laptop
mode and have a display about the size of a 7" tablet. Still
quite usable.

But your non-user opinion is noted...

Ken Springer wrote:
On 11/15/19 10:26 AM, Chris wrote:
On 15/11/2019 09:44, Ken Springer wrote:
On 11/15/19 1:40 AM, Chris wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:
On 11/14/19 7:51 AM, Chris wrote:
On 14/11/2019 14:36, Ken Springer wrote:
On 11/14/19 2:33 AM, Chris wrote:

I just did a W10 install on something around here, I think it was this
Mac Mini for Bootcamp.
To my surprise, and the installer login screen, there was no way to
create a local account at that point.Â* And I looked.Â* Not even any
veiled wording that might take you to Timbuktu.

So I was forced to create an MS account just to complete this install.
I did not want to use my existing account. It should be my choice to use
an MS account or a local account at this point.

I and *not* happy.

And at this point, how does a password manager store the answers and
hints, or work when you are reinstalling from the ground up?

You store them on another synced device eg a phone.

Hi, Chris.

Sorry for the late reply. Too many other things, and just too tired to
get to this.

Don't take this wrong, but I find it interesting how, in general, we now
assume someone has more than one device to sync with.Â* G

It is the norm, but you're right there are many who don't. In that case,
in terms of the pw manager, you write down your answers temporarily.
Then, when the machine is setup, input them into the password manager.
Given this is a microsoft account you are going to need the details when
logging into the store, xbox or other MS service.

That's my basic question, how to others handle this need for the details
when it's a customer they don't know?

How does knowing a customer or not have any bearing on what you do with
passwords?

Not everyone does, and that includes me.Â* :-)Â* Why?

1.Â* I don't need the "anchor" that devices have become.Â* People answer
them when they ring, totally ignoring anyone with them.Â* Is that
respectful to the person(s) you're with?

That's the people being rude not the phone.

Agreed, I didn't mean to intimate it was the phone.

2.Â* Budgetary.Â* I can't afford them anymore.Â* I do have a Tracfone,
$10.79/month.Â* More of an emergency phone than anything else.

I pay about half than that for my smartphone.

Who's your provider?

IDmobile in the UK. I pay £5 a month.

3.Â* Mobile phones do not work where I live, no line of sight to the cell
towers.Â* Since I have a working landline, certainly not going to pay for
a smartphone just to have connection using wireless for a dozen phone
calls a month.Â* LOL

There are more a places where a mobile is more useable than a landline
than vice versa. Out shopping, at the restaurant, in the car, etc. The
"mobile' aspect is very useful for most people.

I would submit this is a lifestyle choice, and a choice I don't wish to
live. And I get a bit perturbed when others assume everyone is like them.

That choice makes me wonder, how much money does it add to an
individual's cost of living?

Certainly it would cheaper not to have one. Same as not having a TV, car,
landline, heating, running water, electricity, ... Nowadays a mobile phone
is practically a necessity. To use online banking in the UK, it is expected
you can receive SMS.

4.Â* Emergency phone service.Â* Lose a cell tower, you have no mobile
phone.Â* Much harder to lose landline service.Â* You don't need the power
company for this.

They're different that's all. You can easily lose the landline due to
falling trees.

This would depend on how well your local phone company has learned about
the environment they are operating in. Have they adjusted to "lessons
learned" from the past? I wonder if PG&E has, in California.

Here, phone lines have been buried for years. Only the pedestals are
above ground.

Cost vs benefit. My old house had the phone line come in via a pole. My
current one, only a few miles away from the previous one, has the phone
line buried.

A fault in the overhead line is easy to fix, but relatively likely. The
buried cable is less likely be damaged, but expensive to fix.

We all make our own choices and those are yours, which is fine.

People need to make smart choices, many don't. Even public services like
the Sheriff's Dept. know a landline is a smart choice here.

Your definition of "smart" may be different to others.

And, ATM, more interested in how people handle this with no access to
anything else the owner may have.

That's a pretty rare occurrence. And, bringing up edge cases doesn't
really change the general utility and safety of password managers. Even
for someone with only a single PC.

Why is it a rare occurrence? Wouldn't almost every installation of W10
by a shop, for a customer they've never seen, need this information?

Not having another device is a rare occurrence.

I did some basic tutoring for a volunteer at a local social agency,
stressing passwords.

What do you recommend people do, then, regarding using and managing
their passwords?

Specifics depend on the user's situation. I would recommend different
things for a computer used by multiple individuals than I would for a
single user system, such as mine.

Trying to cover the most people with a simple answer, I would put the
passwords in a spreadsheet, save the file to a thumb drive, and leave
the drive stored somewhere. Print it and store it in a safe place if
you have a hard time remembering them, and you don't have auto-fill
turned on in your browser.

This is exactly how a password manager works except it's secure, doesn't
require any hardware, can't be lost, corrupted, or accidentally deleted and
can be use in more than one place at a time.

How does your spreadsheet solution deal with the "setting up a new windows
machine" problem you raised earlier?

From this point, what I would tell someone would vary from individual
to individual. I do like the KISS principle, though. Much easier on
your psyche. G

Agree.

In article , 123456789
wrote:


Why wouldn't every [Chromebook] owner take advantage of
the millions of Android apps now available

because they don't work particularly well.

Actually Android apps work very well on this Chromebook.

maybe yours, but they don't work well on all chromebooks.

Modern apps (like Smartnews) work in either portrait or
landscape mode and give a me a full 12" laptop widescreen
display.

those are the minority.

Older apps (like NPR news), designed for phones and
tablets, only work in portrait mode.

just like i said, not that well.

For those I have two
choices. Turn this 2 in 1 Chromebook into tablet mode for a
full screen 12" tablet experience, or leave it in laptop
mode and have a display about the size of a 7" tablet. Still
quite usable.

'still quite usable' is another way of saying 'it doesn't work that
well, but it's tolerable'.

But your non-user opinion is noted...

very much a user, just not an owner, and not an opinion.

chromebooks are best at running chromeos, not android apps.

running android apps on a chromebook brings many compromises that
cannot be avoided. it's getting better, but it's not as good as running
android apps on an android device.

you might not give a **** but most people do.