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Logging Java usage?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 31st 17, 11:11 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Terry Pinnell[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 732
Default Logging Java usage?

I've had Java installed on my PCs for decades. But I'm wondering if it
actually does anything. I've just switched on the 'Enable logging'
option via Settings Control Panel Java

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vgc3ttjv45...ng-1.jpg?raw=1

But on trying to access the log file at
C:\Windows\System32\config\systemprofile\AppData\L ocalLow\Sun\Java\Deployment\log
I got the message:
"Windows cannot access the specified device, path or file. You may not
have the appropriate permissions to access the item."

However, using an elevated command prompt I was able to use dir *.*
which reports no files in that folder.

Q: Is there a way to trigger some trivial Java activity so that I can
test that I can access it in future?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK
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  #2  
Old October 31st 17, 03:32 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Tim Slattery[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 223
Default Logging Java usage?

Terry Pinnell wrote:

I've had Java installed on my PCs for decades. But I'm wondering if it
actually does anything.


There used to be quite a few web pages with embedded Java applets, but
they are dwindling away. Java has deprecated Applets, so they will
probably disappear completely. Unless you visit one of the few
remaining pages with an applet, your Java installation is probably not
doing anything.

However, using an elevated command prompt I was able to use dir *.*
which reports no files in that folder.


Pretty good indication that nothing is going on.

Q: Is there a way to trigger some trivial Java activity so that I can
test that I can access it in future?


Try the New York Times syndicated crossword at
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/com...crossword.html

The puzzle runs in an applet. That should give the logger something to
log.

--
Tim Slattery
tim at risingdove dot com
  #3  
Old October 31st 17, 08:18 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Logging Java usage?

Terry Pinnell wrote:
I've had Java installed on my PCs for decades. But I'm wondering if it
actually does anything. I've just switched on the 'Enable logging'
option via Settings Control Panel Java

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vgc3ttjv45...ng-1.jpg?raw=1

But on trying to access the log file at
C:\Windows\System32\config\systemprofile\AppData\L ocalLow\Sun\Java\Deployment\log
I got the message:
"Windows cannot access the specified device, path or file. You may not
have the appropriate permissions to access the item."

However, using an elevated command prompt I was able to use dir *.*
which reports no files in that folder.

Q: Is there a way to trigger some trivial Java activity so that I can
test that I can access it in future?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK


The Deployment folder appears to be tracking versions
of JRE that have been installed. Perhaps this is an IT
department structure, as mine is empty and stops with
the Java 6 release stream. (Even though my install for
test purposes is Java 8. Java 9 installers appear to be
64-bit only).

It's not application auditing.

You can walk that path, level by level, in File Explorer,
until you get there. That's how I could see inside it.

If you want something you can run from Command Prompt, download
the JAR file (which contains Java class files), and run the demo.
You'd need to be CD'ed into the folder containing the .jar download,
for this to work.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/andrew/cou...mo/jfc/Java2D/

cd /d C:\path\to\downloaded\jar
java -jar Java2Demo.jar

Use file:exit in the Powerpoint slide-like window to quit.

Java programs can run from the command line, or in a browser
window. The browser is likely to have a permission explicitly
for Java, or, be handled in the AddOns. That might allow
command line (or program menu) invocation to continue, while
disabling Java in the browser, to remove the attack surface
from web surfing.

*******

The best way to handle Java ?

Remove it.

From a security point of view, that's the least amount of work.
Constant updates, automated disablement by the browser developers,
it's otherwise about as much work as tending to Flash issues.

And for what ?

Simply record the release you're currently using, in case
the topic comes up again some time. Then remove it.

*******

You could use the Windows 10 bash shell, and recursively run
the "file" command from the "find" command, then "grep"
on every instance of the "java" keyword, to get some idea
how many pieces of java stuff are on your machine. Other than
that, I don't see any easy Windows-side means of doing so.

Half the maintenance on a Windows machine, is removing attack
surfaces that shouldn't have been put there in the first place.
Obviously, business interests override security.

HTH,
Paul
  #4  
Old October 31st 17, 08:52 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Logging Java usage?

Terry Pinnell wrote:

I've had Java installed on my PCs for decades. But I'm wondering if it
actually does anything.


Not unless you have Java-encoded apps that use that interpreter.

I've just switched on the 'Enable logging'
option via Settings Control Panel Java


Works to tell you what happens when you run a Java app. Doesn't sound
like you have any.

However, using an elevated command prompt I was able to use dir *.*
which reports no files in that folder.


No point in creating a log file for logging an app when you don't have
any Java apps to run.

Q: Is there a way to trigger some trivial Java activity so that I can
test that I can access it in future?


Uninstall Java. You don't have any Java-encoded apps. If you ever hit
a site that wants to push a Java app to your host to run locally, you
can decide then whether to bother with that site's app or install Java
again which includes Java Web Start to run the Java app offered by the
site (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Web_Start).

JavaWS locally caches the Java apps and runs them locally. When you had
a Java plug-in in your web browser, the apps got downloaded and were
passed using the plug-in to the java.exe interpreter so those apps were
also ran locally and external to the web browser. JavaWS has been
around for well over a decade and Sun was prodding Java developers to
move to using it. Not until plug-ins got killed in web browsers did
Java programmers move off their collective keister to use JavaWS.

Unless your host is a workstation on a corporate network where they have
mission-critical apps still coded in Java (which means it is not your
your host and not your choice if Java is installed or not), it's
unlikely you will ever need Java any more than you will need Jscript,
Python, Ruby, Ada, Modula, Perl, PHP, Tcl, Fortran, or Cobol.
  #5  
Old October 31st 17, 10:00 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Terry Pinnell[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 732
Default Logging Java usage?

VanguardLH wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:

I've had Java installed on my PCs for decades. But I'm wondering if it
actually does anything.


Not unless you have Java-encoded apps that use that interpreter.

I've just switched on the 'Enable logging'
option via Settings Control Panel Java


Works to tell you what happens when you run a Java app. Doesn't sound
like you have any.

However, using an elevated command prompt I was able to use dir *.*
which reports no files in that folder.


No point in creating a log file for logging an app when you don't have
any Java apps to run.

Q: Is there a way to trigger some trivial Java activity so that I can
test that I can access it in future?


Uninstall Java. You don't have any Java-encoded apps. If you ever hit
a site that wants to push a Java app to your host to run locally, you
can decide then whether to bother with that site's app or install Java
again which includes Java Web Start to run the Java app offered by the
site (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Web_Start).

JavaWS locally caches the Java apps and runs them locally. When you had
a Java plug-in in your web browser, the apps got downloaded and were
passed using the plug-in to the java.exe interpreter so those apps were
also ran locally and external to the web browser. JavaWS has been
around for well over a decade and Sun was prodding Java developers to
move to using it. Not until plug-ins got killed in web browsers did
Java programmers move off their collective keister to use JavaWS.

Unless your host is a workstation on a corporate network where they have
mission-critical apps still coded in Java (which means it is not your
your host and not your choice if Java is installed or not), it's
unlikely you will ever need Java any more than you will need Jscript,
Python, Ruby, Ada, Modula, Perl, PHP, Tcl, Fortran, or Cobol.


Thanks all, very helpful - although some of it is over my head.

I'm hesitating about uninstalling Java since getting this reply a short
time ago to my similar post in the WindowsTenForums:
"If you use internet based banking (online bank) it is often used to
verified your identity, so do not uninstall it!"

I do use online banking...

Terry, East Grinstead, UK
  #6  
Old October 31st 17, 10:15 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul in Houston TX[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 999
Default Logging Java usage?

Terry Pinnell wrote:
VanguardLH wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:

I've had Java installed on my PCs for decades. But I'm wondering if it
actually does anything.


Not unless you have Java-encoded apps that use that interpreter.

I've just switched on the 'Enable logging'
option via Settings Control Panel Java


Works to tell you what happens when you run a Java app. Doesn't sound
like you have any.

However, using an elevated command prompt I was able to use dir *.*
which reports no files in that folder.


No point in creating a log file for logging an app when you don't have
any Java apps to run.

Q: Is there a way to trigger some trivial Java activity so that I can
test that I can access it in future?


Uninstall Java. You don't have any Java-encoded apps. If you ever hit
a site that wants to push a Java app to your host to run locally, you
can decide then whether to bother with that site's app or install Java
again which includes Java Web Start to run the Java app offered by the
site (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Web_Start).

JavaWS locally caches the Java apps and runs them locally. When you had
a Java plug-in in your web browser, the apps got downloaded and were
passed using the plug-in to the java.exe interpreter so those apps were
also ran locally and external to the web browser. JavaWS has been
around for well over a decade and Sun was prodding Java developers to
move to using it. Not until plug-ins got killed in web browsers did
Java programmers move off their collective keister to use JavaWS.

Unless your host is a workstation on a corporate network where they have
mission-critical apps still coded in Java (which means it is not your
your host and not your choice if Java is installed or not), it's
unlikely you will ever need Java any more than you will need Jscript,
Python, Ruby, Ada, Modula, Perl, PHP, Tcl, Fortran, or Cobol.


Thanks all, very helpful - although some of it is over my head.

I'm hesitating about uninstalling Java since getting this reply a short
time ago to my similar post in the WindowsTenForums:
"If you use internet based banking (online bank) it is often used to
verified your identity, so do not uninstall it!"

I do use online banking...

Terry, East Grinstead, UK


Java _could_ be used as an infection vector.
That is the main reason it is going away.
Personally, if my bank required Java for online access and I wanted online
access then I would find another bank.

  #7  
Old November 1st 17, 12:16 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Logging Java usage?

Terry Pinnell wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:

I've had Java installed on my PCs for decades. But I'm wondering if it
actually does anything.


Not unless you have Java-encoded apps that use that interpreter.

I've just switched on the 'Enable logging'
option via Settings Control Panel Java


Works to tell you what happens when you run a Java app. Doesn't sound
like you have any.

However, using an elevated command prompt I was able to use dir *.*
which reports no files in that folder.


No point in creating a log file for logging an app when you don't have
any Java apps to run.

Q: Is there a way to trigger some trivial Java activity so that I can
test that I can access it in future?


Uninstall Java. You don't have any Java-encoded apps. If you ever hit
a site that wants to push a Java app to your host to run locally, you
can decide then whether to bother with that site's app or install Java
again which includes Java Web Start to run the Java app offered by the
site (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Web_Start).

JavaWS locally caches the Java apps and runs them locally. When you had
a Java plug-in in your web browser, the apps got downloaded and were
passed using the plug-in to the java.exe interpreter so those apps were
also ran locally and external to the web browser. JavaWS has been
around for well over a decade and Sun was prodding Java developers to
move to using it. Not until plug-ins got killed in web browsers did
Java programmers move off their collective keister to use JavaWS.

Unless your host is a workstation on a corporate network where they have
mission-critical apps still coded in Java (which means it is not your
your host and not your choice if Java is installed or not), it's
unlikely you will ever need Java any more than you will need Jscript,
Python, Ruby, Ada, Modula, Perl, PHP, Tcl, Fortran, or Cobol.


Thanks all, very helpful - although some of it is over my head.

I'm hesitating about uninstalling Java since getting this reply a short
time ago to my similar post in the WindowsTenForums:
"If you use internet based banking (online bank) it is often used to
verified your identity, so do not uninstall it!"

I do use online banking...


Paul says Java can be a malware infection vector. Actually it was the
modelling for plug-ins that made the web browsers vulnerable to malware
and why plug-in support went away hence why the Java plug-in is dead.

However, Java Web Start has been used for about a decade (it was called
something else before). Caching and managing local copies of Java apps
has been available for a very long time. Any site that wants to use
Java apps will have to present them as downloadable apps to the JavaWS
client installed on your local PC when you install the Java RE or SDK.

Why not actually go to the online banking site to see if they still use
Java. Banks are slow to change but it has been a long time since I've
seen any still using Java, especially since plug-in support died in the
web browsers. The banks would have to change how they present their
Java apps for delivery from their server to your JavaWS client (it's a
new protocol used by the site that the JavaWS client supports). The
protocol and .jnsp (Java Network Server Protocol) filetype are defined
in the OS. I believe the JNSP file is a manifest of what will get
delivered, not just the .java code alone.

That "some site uses some protocol" is not sufficient reason to
install anything that any site might want to use.
 




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