If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Rate Thread | Display Modes |
Ads |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
BackUp for HD Replacement
On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 02:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Boris
wrote: Shadow wrote in news:k5nbvddndc6l562fmi42qlfiqsuedj5ngk@ 4ax.com: On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 09:31:59 -0500, wrote: Sooner or later, hopefully much later, my spinning HD will need replacement with another or a whole new PC. Is there a way to back up, the current substantial HD apps and data material, to facilitate this inevitability ? I don't want to ever be faced with the daunting, if not impossible task, of reinstalling everything with data. Probably involve the cloud or other storage device. Good advice most welcome and thanks. Aomei Backupper Free has always worked for me. https://www.backup-utility.com/changelog.html Choose "standard". And you'll need a new disk. []'s AOMEItech.com sent me an email with links to: 72-Hour Offers: Save Up To 65% AOMEI Backupper Professional Lifetime Upgrades Free One code is valid for 2 PCs Now $38.47 Reg $54.99 Save Now AOMEI Backupper Professional One code is valid for 2 PCs Now $31.99 Reg $39.99 Save Now The links put either selection in an order basket with an order number. The order is fulfilled by MyCommerce, a Digital River company. Try the free version first. It might not be what you are comfortable with. My motto is try and then buy. []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#33
|
|||
|
|||
BackUp for HD Replacement
"Ken Blake" wrote in message
... I wasn't sure what you meant by "its impossible to back them up" (??). Because you just need to make a image or clone backup of your main drive to do this. IOW, either make an image backup of the C: partition, OR a clone backup of your C: drive, and I think you'll be all set. And that's what I do over here (using Acronis True Image), and it sure has come in handy, on occasion. But maybe I misread something. Yes, you can back up Windows by imaging or cloning, and if you do that, yes, you also have a backup of your installed programs. But you can *not* back up the programs by themselves, and that's what I meant. And you only restore the PC to the state it was in when its disc was imaged, which may be woefully out of date. Since you usually need to boot the PC into a minimal single-user state to be allowed to copy the whole disc, sector by sector, it's not something you will want to do as frequently as a file-and-folder copy of user files. If you restore the PC to an earlier state from a disc image, you need to know what subsequent changes you will need to make all over again. Hopefully those can be handled mostly by keeping a more frequent backup of user files (documents, email folders, pictures etc) that are applied after the basic disc image has been restored, together with a note of any system-wide config changes or additional packages that post-date the disc image. |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
BackUp for HD Replacement
Paul wrote:
Bill in Co wrote: Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 17:41:31 -0700, "Bill in Co" surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: It does take a long time if you're using external drives (I doubt anyone is still using EIDE these days, for W7+ anyway), and only have USB2. You can get external drives with eSATA. If you're still using USB2 for backups, you don't know what you're missing (in terms of speedy backups and restores). :-) I liked eSATA, but it seems to have died in the marketplace and has all but disappeared in favor of USB3 (USB3.1 Gen 1, which used to be called USB 3.0, and USB 3.1 Gen 2). Interesting to hear that. I'm still using Windows XP for the most part, and have a couple of SATA backup drives in enclosures for my backups. I'm not even sure how well the USB3 approach would work out for a Windows XP computer in practice. I suppose one could look for USB 3 cards and USB 3 drives in enclosures, but I'm not sure it would really be worth it. And that's assuming that it all worked out properly on an XP system (i.e at full USB 3 speed). Absolutely it's worth it. I have a USB3 card in this machine, with the NEC/Renesas chip on it. Since I didn't waste any money on optimization, I get around 200MB/sec out of it. That beats 30MB/sec for USB2 by a factor of 6. The backup itself won't run that fast. Stuff may compete with your I/O. But the I/O rate should easily be higher than 30MB/sec, so the USB3 does help. There was a WinXP driver for the NEC chip I got. The mini-CD that comes with the card, could have WinXP/Vista/Win7 drivers, but check the advert for proof a newer chip has all three of those. Win8.1 and Win10 have USB3 already. If Asmedia made a new chip this year, they might decide not to include anything but a Win7 driver on a mini-CD in the box. USB3 solutions come in "classes". If you had a slot with x1 PCI Express Revision 1.1, then the card won't run all that fast. If you buy a "USB3.1 Rev2" card, one which has two PCI Express lanes wired (and the connector shape is an x4), that allows the max_rate of USB3 (original) to be achieved. You might get 450MB/sec with UASP mode transfers to a USB3 + SSD for example. That's how a home user retrofits "Intel chipset level performance" into an older platform (might need to use the video slot). Such a performance level might be required to run a Black Magic USB3 video capture box. (The original version of USB3, is also known as USB3.1 Rev1, while the 2x faster version is USB3.1 Rev2.) But again, the backup isn't likely to go that fast. USB3.2 is for USB C connectors, and has two USB3.1 lanes on the same connector, for yet another doubling of rate. There's no evidence anyone is promoting it yet. There's no "buzz" that I could detect. The numbers here are intended to indicate the notion of "classes" of performance. Exact numbers could vary. The DMI bus is x4 lanes wide, which is why it's not a bottleneck. USB3 aka USB3.1 Rev1 500MB/sec (minus overhead) PCIe Rev1.1 180-200MB/sec PCIe Rev2 400MB/sec Intel SB DMI 450MB/sec USB3.1 Rev2 1000MB/sec (scaling as HW buses permit) USB3.2 on C 2000MB/sec (scaling as HW buses permit) The backup could do compression, which can slow it down. The backup is probably running an MD5, so that later "Verify" operations have a reference value to use. These things might cap performance at 300MB/sec theoretical best. You can do CRC32 as a checksum, at 1.5GB/sec, but not too many disk related things do that. CRC32 is good for network packets. The UASP driver gives a slight bump in performance level. That's a "SCSI" stack of some sort. I don't have info on which OSes support UASP. The SCSI stack has been in Windows forever, so that part (the base of the stack) isn't a limiting factor. The SCSI stack is how "foreign objects" can inject their stack. (You might remember some SATA cards doing two driver cycles, and one of the drivers was a SCSI stub.) Paul Ooops, I should have made my point more clear. I didn't think USB 3 was worth it if you've already got eSATA II backup and restore capability, which is where you really need the speed. But sure, in general, USB 3 is a nice step up from USB 2 for any other uses and peripherals you might have. And eSATA II, speed wise, is in the same ballpart as USB 3, so I'm happy. :-) I can live with the slower speed of USB2 for most other peripherals, but not backing up my system drive. :-) |
#35
|
|||
|
|||
BackUp for HD Replacement
|
#36
|
|||
|
|||
BackUp for HD Replacement
Bill in Co wrote:
Ooops, I should have made my point more clear. I didn't think USB 3 was worth it if you've already got eSATA II backup and restore capability, which is where you really need the speed. But sure, in general, USB 3 is a nice step up from USB 2 for any other uses and peripherals you might have. And eSATA II, speed wise, is in the same ballpart as USB 3, so I'm happy. :-) I can live with the slower speed of USB2 for most other peripherals, but not backing up my system drive. :-) I can't even buy ESATA cables here. My ESATA ports are useless without cables. Whereas I can get USB cables. To me, ESATA has always been a "dead technology", because of the lack of impulse buy items I can get my hands on. I'm not paying $20 shipping for a $3 cable from Timbuktu. And you might think SCSI was obscure, but there was always at least one store selling the *$100* SCSI cable I needed :-) Funny thing about that. My store has a whole rack of SATA cables. Some SATA cables you'd never consider buying. But there's not a single ESATA on that rack. Not even a SATA to ESATA for popping out a slot cover on the back of the PC. ESATA gets you to SATA II (300MB/sec), but doesn't cover SATA III as far as I know. It could be, it's too hard to get the longest cable run to work at the higher rate. USB can go faster than that. I think there are some benches of USB3.1 Rev.2 at 900MB/sec or so, with an M.2 as the target. USB can go a bit faster than ESATA, but most people will be using regular HDD for backups. We only had one newsgroup participant who was "pure SSD". He's passed on. Paul |
#37
|
|||
|
|||
BackUp for HD Replacement
Shadow wrote:
On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 02:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Boris wrote: Shadow wrote in news:k5nbvddndc6l562fmi42qlfiqsuedj5ngk@ 4ax.com: On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 09:31:59 -0500, wrote: Sooner or later, hopefully much later, my spinning HD will need replacement with another or a whole new PC. Is there a way to back up, the current substantial HD apps and data material, to facilitate this inevitability ? I don't want to ever be faced with the daunting, if not impossible task, of reinstalling everything with data. Probably involve the cloud or other storage device. Good advice most welcome and thanks. Aomei Backupper Free has always worked for me. https://www.backup-utility.com/changelog.html Choose "standard". And you'll need a new disk. []'s AOMEItech.com sent me an email with links to: 72-Hour Offers: Save Up To 65% AOMEI Backupper Professional Lifetime Upgrades Free One code is valid for 2 PCs Now $38.47 Reg $54.99 Save Now AOMEI Backupper Professional One code is valid for 2 PCs Now $31.99 Reg $39.99 Save Now The links put either selection in an order basket with an order number. The order is fulfilled by MyCommerce, a Digital River company. Try the free version first. It might not be what you are comfortable with. My motto is try and then buy. []'s Exactly. There's lots of trials out there, or limited-function freebies. Generally speaking, you should be able to get "full backup" functionality for free. More refined functions, like say incrementals, that costs money, so you'd have a limited trial for something like that. This will give some idea of things that are duds. https://www.raymond.cc/blog/10-comme...ed-comparison/ My favorite whipping-boy is: DriveImage XML as I noticed it was slow when I tried it out, well before reading the above article. If you need a benchmark of "how bad could it get", that might be a place to start. I think that uses VSS shadow copies like the rest, but for some reason (maybe it's the file by file nature), it just seemed pretty slow. Paul |
#38
|
|||
|
|||
BackUp for HD Replacement
Paul wrote:
Bill in Co wrote: Ooops, I should have made my point more clear. I didn't think USB 3 was worth it if you've already got eSATA II backup and restore capability, which is where you really need the speed. But sure, in general, USB 3 is a nice step up from USB 2 for any other uses and peripherals you might have. And eSATA II, speed wise, is in the same ballpart as USB 3, so I'm happy. :-) I can live with the slower speed of USB2 for most other peripherals, but not backing up my system drive. :-) I can't even buy ESATA cables here. My ESATA ports are useless without cables. Whereas I can get USB cables. To me, ESATA has always been a "dead technology", because of the lack of impulse buy items I can get my hands on. I'm not paying $20 shipping for a $3 cable from Timbuktu. And you might think SCSI was obscure, but there was always at least one store selling the *$100* SCSI cable I needed :-) Funny thing about that. My store has a whole rack of SATA cables. Some SATA cables you'd never consider buying. But there's not a single ESATA on that rack. Not even a SATA to ESATA for popping out a slot cover on the back of the PC. ESATA gets you to SATA II (300MB/sec), but doesn't cover SATA III as far as I know. It could be, it's too hard to get the longest cable run to work at the higher rate. USB can go faster than that. I think there are some benches of USB3.1 Rev.2 at 900MB/sec or so, with an M.2 as the target. USB can go a bit faster than ESATA, but most people will be using regular HDD for backups. We only had one newsgroup participant who was "pure SSD". He's passed on. Paul Yes, I've got two older Vantec NexStar eSATA HD enclosures that I got some time ago on Amazon. I rarely expect to get anything from the local stores here (then again, I don't live in a huge city anymore), so I just get what I need from Amazon, and it only takes 2 days to get it here (with Prime). That works pretty well for my "impulse buying". And if that fails, there's always eBay, as a source. :-) And at least SATA II (300 MB/sec) is in the same ballpark league as USB 3 for speed. (Granted that USB 3 can be twice, or if you're lucky, possibly three times faster than SATA II (as an outlier). |
#39
|
|||
|
|||
BackUp for HD Replacement
On 11/22/18 3:30 PM, Paul wrote:
[snip] I can't even buy ESATA cables here. My ESATA ports are useless without cables. Whereas I can get USB cables. To me, ESATA has always been a "dead technology", because of the lack of impulse buy items I can get my hands on. I'm not paying $20 shipping for a $3 cable from Timbuktu. I got mine from Amazon.com. Mainly as a way to make sure the eSATA port on my computer works (it does). I have used it once, when upgrading the HD. USB would have worked. Most of my backups are done with USB drives. -- 32 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense." -- Voltaire |
#40
|
|||
|
|||
BackUp for HD Replacement
Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11/22/18 3:30 PM, Paul wrote: [snip] I can't even buy ESATA cables here. My ESATA ports are useless without cables. Whereas I can get USB cables. To me, ESATA has always been a "dead technology", because of the lack of impulse buy items I can get my hands on. I'm not paying $20 shipping for a $3 cable from Timbuktu. I got mine from Amazon.com. Mainly as a way to make sure the eSATA port on my computer works (it does). I have used it once, when upgrading the HD. USB would have worked. Most of my backups are done with USB drives. Then I assume your backups are pretty small (if you're using USB 2), and not on the order of 50 GB. :-) Yup, Amazon is really handy (at least for us over here in the states - not sure how it works elsewhere, and if they have that 2 day shipping with Prime). |
#41
|
|||
|
|||
BackUp for HD Replacement
Bill in Co wrote:
Mark Lloyd wrote: On 11/22/18 3:30 PM, Paul wrote: [snip] I can't even buy ESATA cables here. My ESATA ports are useless without cables. Whereas I can get USB cables. To me, ESATA has always been a "dead technology", because of the lack of impulse buy items I can get my hands on. I'm not paying $20 shipping for a $3 cable from Timbuktu. I got mine from Amazon.com. Mainly as a way to make sure the eSATA port on my computer works (it does). I have used it once, when upgrading the HD. USB would have worked. Most of my backups are done with USB drives. Then I assume your backups are pretty small (if you're using USB 2), and not on the order of 50 GB. :-) Yup, Amazon is really handy (at least for us over here in the states - not sure how it works elsewhere, and if they have that 2 day shipping with Prime). Due to a bait and switch with my first attempted Amazon transaction, I won't be doing business with them... ever. It took a month to get my money back. Paul |
#42
|
|||
|
|||
BackUp for HD Replacement
On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 16:04:49 -0500, Paul wrote:
Bill in Co wrote: Then I assume your backups are pretty small (if you're using USB 2), and not on the order of 50 GB. :-) Yup, Amazon is really handy (at least for us over here in the states - not sure how it works elsewhere, and if they have that 2 day shipping with Prime). Due to a bait and switch with my first attempted Amazon transaction, I won't be doing business with them... ever. It took a month to get my money back. Was Amazon the seller, or was it a third party selling through Amazon? I know it shouldn't matter, but in my experience, it does. I try to purchase through Amazon itself, rather than a seller. I place orders through Amazon about 1-3 times a week and I haven't had a bad experience yet, including a handful of extremely smooth and easy returns. Pros: fast delivery, frequently same day if I order before noon. Some items can be delivered in 30-60 minutes, although to a storage location (UPS store) rather than to my house. Also, very easy returns in the rare case where something doesn't meet my expectations, and of course the A-Z selection availability. Cons: Prime costs money, but I break even very quickly with the free shipping. Also, in reading recent reviews of high-end Intel CPUs, apparently there's a black market industry of buying a product, swapping it out and sticking the old part in the box, then returning it for credit. The next person then gets to purchase the result. I haven't seen that, but it would tick me off. From personal experience, and from reading countless reviews, I haven't heard of any bait-and-switch experiences until now. -- Char Jackson |
#43
|
|||
|
|||
BackUp for HD Replacement
Paul wrote:
Bill in Co wrote: Mark Lloyd wrote: On 11/22/18 3:30 PM, Paul wrote: [snip] I can't even buy ESATA cables here. My ESATA ports are useless without cables. Whereas I can get USB cables. To me, ESATA has always been a "dead technology", because of the lack of impulse buy items I can get my hands on. I'm not paying $20 shipping for a $3 cable from Timbuktu. I got mine from Amazon.com. Mainly as a way to make sure the eSATA port on my computer works (it does). I have used it once, when upgrading the HD. USB would have worked. Most of my backups are done with USB drives. Then I assume your backups are pretty small (if you're using USB 2), and not on the order of 50 GB. :-) Yup, Amazon is really handy (at least for us over here in the states - not sure how it works elsewhere, and if they have that 2 day shipping with Prime). Due to a bait and switch with my first attempted Amazon transaction, I won't be doing business with them... ever. It took a month to get my money back. Paul Sorry to hear that. I haven't had that experience yet, and I've bought a lot on Amazon, and so I am a frequent flyer there. :-) So I'd say you just got a bad one-off. Maybe what Char said happened to you, though? I'm not saying you can't have a bad experience with Amazon (and I've had a couple with eBay), but when it's all said and done, I can't imagine living without the convenience of both Amazon (and its 2 day deliveries) and eBay. |
#44
|
|||
|
|||
BackUp for HD Replacement
On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 15:51:38 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote: On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 16:04:49 -0500, Paul wrote: Bill in Co wrote: Then I assume your backups are pretty small (if you're using USB 2), and not on the order of 50 GB. :-) Yup, Amazon is really handy (at least for us over here in the states - not sure how it works elsewhere, and if they have that 2 day shipping with Prime). Due to a bait and switch with my first attempted Amazon transaction, I won't be doing business with them... ever. It took a month to get my money back. Was Amazon the seller, or was it a third party selling through Amazon? I know it shouldn't matter, but in my experience, it does. I try to purchase through Amazon itself, rather than a seller. I place orders through Amazon about 1-3 times a week and I haven't had a bad experience yet, including a handful of extremely smooth and easy returns. I thought I ordered from Amazon a lot, but it's not as much as you--maybe once or twice a month. I had only one bad experience. I had ordered something that was coming from a third party in China. But despite the expected delivery date arriving, the package never did. But it was quickly and easily resolved, and I got my money back. |
#45
|
|||
|
|||
BackUp for HD Replacement
On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 15:22:56 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote: On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 15:51:38 -0600, Char Jackson wrote: On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 16:04:49 -0500, Paul wrote: Bill in Co wrote: Then I assume your backups are pretty small (if you're using USB 2), and not on the order of 50 GB. :-) Yup, Amazon is really handy (at least for us over here in the states - not sure how it works elsewhere, and if they have that 2 day shipping with Prime). Due to a bait and switch with my first attempted Amazon transaction, I won't be doing business with them... ever. It took a month to get my money back. Was Amazon the seller, or was it a third party selling through Amazon? I know it shouldn't matter, but in my experience, it does. I try to purchase through Amazon itself, rather than a seller. I place orders through Amazon about 1-3 times a week and I haven't had a bad experience yet, including a handful of extremely smooth and easy returns. I thought I ordered from Amazon a lot, but it's not as much as you--maybe once or twice a month. I had only one bad experience. I had ordered something that was coming from a third party in China. But despite the expected delivery date arriving, the package never did. But it was quickly and easily resolved, and I got my money back. I'm glad to hear that it worked out. Without further anecdotes, I'm thinking Paul's bad experience was probably an anomaly. -- Char Jackson |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|