For those considering Linux...

....

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-17.10-BIOS-Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...tu-17.10-BIOS-
Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

ray carter wrote:

Doomsdrzej wrote:
...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-17.10-BIOS-Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

"Hadron" may have been right about Ubuntu being too aggressive with
releasing new versions before they are properly vetted.

Fortunately, unlike Windows users, GNU/Linux users can choose from
multiple vendors, so are far more likely to find a find a product that
is more to their "taste".

--
"98% of the market seems to like it." - "True Linux advocate" Hadron
Quark

--
"98% of the market seems to like it." - "True Linux advocate" Hadron
Quark

The above is perhaps my favorite Quack quote. It nicely encapsulates
his ****ty, illogical defense of the monopolists in Redmond.

--
"Apparently it's called choice : I call it a diluted mess designed to
confuse and put real people off. A bit like the crazy distro dance."
- "True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark

Doomsdrzej wrote:
...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-17.10-BIOS-Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

Before high-fiving yourself, also consider
that UEFI has a checkered history.

https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/25091.html

"Samsung can end up bricked

And I remember when I thought UEFI would make
our lives simpler and reduce the amount of
ridiculous hacks we needed. Sigh."

There was also a case in Windows, where some Windows
thing modifies a setting in the BIOS - and later
when the user gets into the BIOS, there *no* way
to put it back. So even Windows has a means of
triggering trap-door behavior, by flipping something
in the BIOS, that cannot be corrected from a
BIOS setup screen.

UEFI is just a bad bad idea. That's the message.

I *think* I'm covered, because my computer has
a special USB port, with a flasher function built
right in. You plug in a USB stick with a named BIOS
file on it, push a button, and the image is loaded
into the BIOS (there is a separate chip on the
motherboard handling this). The function works so
well, that even if the CPU is not in the CPU socket
and it's "just a motherboard", the flashing function
still works. You can buy my motherboard, connect an
ATX power supply, plug in a USB stick, flash the BIOS,
power off... and insert a previously-unsupported CPU
and have it work.

I haven't needed to use that, but that's my "insurance
policy" in times of trouble.

The traditional BIOS, also used to write to itself,
but not anywhere nearly as badly designed as UEFI. It
has a microcode cache (I loaded mine manually on my
P2B-S), it has DMI/ESCD (mostly innocuous). Whereas
UEFI can be bricked, just via the "NVRAM storage in flash"
feature, an area used to hold various variables.

Paul

On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray carter wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...tu-17.10-BIOS-
Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people
might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like
this.

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 14:57:55 -0500, Paul
wrote:

Doomsdrzej wrote:
...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-17.10-BIOS-Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

Before high-fiving yourself, also consider
that UEFI has a checkered history.

https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/25091.html

"Samsung can end up bricked

And I remember when I thought UEFI would make
our lives simpler and reduce the amount of
ridiculous hacks we needed. Sigh."

There was also a case in Windows, where some Windows
thing modifies a setting in the BIOS - and later
when the user gets into the BIOS, there *no* way
to put it back. So even Windows has a means of
triggering trap-door behavior, by flipping something
in the BIOS, that cannot be corrected from a
BIOS setup screen.

UEFI is just a bad bad idea. That's the message.

I have no doubt of it. I tend to disable it entirely whenever I
install Linux on this machine. It's always more trouble than it's
worth.

I *think* I'm covered, because my computer has
a special USB port, with a flasher function built
right in. You plug in a USB stick with a named BIOS
file on it, push a button, and the image is loaded
into the BIOS (there is a separate chip on the
motherboard handling this). The function works so
well, that even if the CPU is not in the CPU socket
and it's "just a motherboard", the flashing function
still works. You can buy my motherboard, connect an
ATX power supply, plug in a USB stick, flash the BIOS,
power off... and insert a previously-unsupported CPU
and have it work.

I haven't needed to use that, but that's my "insurance
policy" in times of trouble.

A very cool feature, I have to admit. If anything, it's protection
against malware like the dreaded CIH virus of 1999.

The traditional BIOS, also used to write to itself,
but not anywhere nearly as badly designed as UEFI. It
has a microcode cache (I loaded mine manually on my
P2B-S), it has DMI/ESCD (mostly innocuous). Whereas
UEFI can be bricked, just via the "NVRAM storage in flash"
feature, an area used to hold various variables.

I had a motherboard a few years ago which had two BIOS chips. If the
first one gets corrupted, the second is used as a failsafe. I believe
the motherboard's brand was DFI. I don't know if their motherboards
are any good but that feature, at the very least, was very welcome.

Paul wrote:

I *think* I'm covered, because my computer has
a special USB port, with a flasher function built
right in. You plug in a USB stick with a named BIOS
file on it, push a button, and the image is loaded
into the BIOS (there is a separate chip on the
motherboard handling this). The function works so
well, that even if the CPU is not in the CPU socket
and it's "just a motherboard", the flashing function
still works. You can buy my motherboard, connect an
ATX power supply, plug in a USB stick, flash the BIOS,
power off... and insert a previously-unsupported CPU
and have it work.

BIOS updates with no CPU installed? I've not heard of that before,
but it has obvious uses, as you say.

In all the motherboard reviews I've read, I've not seen that feature
mentioned. Am I not reading carefully-enough?

--
"(Being able to afford overpriced tools) is a source of burning envy
for others. We all know that chrisv falls into this category." -
lying asshole "-hh", lying shamelessly

On 20-12-2017 21:44, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray carter wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...tu-17.10-BIOS-
Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people
might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like
this.


Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people
might be reluctant to use Windows10 in general as a result of news like
this.

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray carter wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...=Ubuntu-17.10-
BIOS-
Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people
might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like
this.

'news like this' meaning that one particular Linux distribution has an
issue with their most recent release? I guess MS never had a problem with
an initial release of any windows version.

chrisv wrote:
Paul wrote:

I *think* I'm covered, because my computer has
a special USB port, with a flasher function built
right in. You plug in a USB stick with a named BIOS
file on it, push a button, and the image is loaded
into the BIOS (there is a separate chip on the
motherboard handling this). The function works so
well, that even if the CPU is not in the CPU socket
and it's "just a motherboard", the flashing function
still works. You can buy my motherboard, connect an
ATX power supply, plug in a USB stick, flash the BIOS,
power off... and insert a previously-unsupported CPU
and have it work.

BIOS updates with no CPU installed? I've not heard of that before,
but it has obvious uses, as you say.

In all the motherboard reviews I've read, I've not seen that feature
mentioned. Am I not reading carefully-enough?


P9X79 Page16

"USB BIOS Flashback

USB BIOS Flashback offers the most convenient way to flash
the BIOS ever! It allows overclockers to try new BIOS versions
easily, without even entering their existing BIOS or operating
system. Just plug in USB storage and push the dedicated button
for 3 seconds, and the BIOS is automatically flashed using
standby power. Worry-free overclocking for the ultimate convenience!
"

For most people, the use-case for this, is gaining support for
a CPU, by using a more recent BIOS. A job we used to solve by
buying a $40 Celeron, putting it on the motherboard, flashing
up, then tossing the Celeron in the garbage.

And it apparently runs off +5VSB.

Here is the public relations material on the feature.

http://event.asus.com/2012/mb/USB_BIOS_Flashback_GUIDE/

With Asus, some of these features only last a few years,
before they turf them. I can see a Z170A board that has
FlashBack, but I don't see the button to press on that one.

Paul

On 20 Dec 2017 22:10:56 GMT, ray carter wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray carter wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...=Ubuntu-17.10-
BIOS-
Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people
might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like
this.

'news like this' meaning that one particular Linux distribution has an
issue with their most recent release? I guess MS never had a problem with
an initial release of any windows version.

Can you recall Windows being responsible for corrupting a BIOS, sinec
Windows 1.0?

On 2017-12-20 2:41 PM, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On 20 Dec 2017 22:10:56 GMT, ray carter wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray carter wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...=Ubuntu-17.10-
BIOS-
Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people
might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like
this.

'news like this' meaning that one particular Linux distribution has an
issue with their most recent release? I guess MS never had a problem with
an initial release of any windows version.

Can you recall Windows being responsible for corrupting a BIOS, sinec
Windows 1.0?


Does this count, twitboy:

'Windows 10 corrupted my BIOS'

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-performance-winpc/windows-10-corrupted-my-bios/0a7e5acb-78b7-43be-87e9-f24aedefb4be

How about this:

'Windows10 auto-update just corrupted my DVD player, then my bios'

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-update-winpc/windows10-auto-update-just-corrupted-my-dvd-player/1d9bbcc4-c146-4cc4-b0ec-af48dad1c1ba

Or this:

'After windows update my BIOS is corrupted and system will not boot '

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/after-windows-update-my-bios-is-corrupted-and/d3da6560-bc52-4da3-9c51-4ccb675207f9

On 12/20/2017 3:11 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
On 2017-12-20 2:41 PM, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On 20 Dec 2017 22:10:56 GMT, ray carter wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray carter wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...=Ubuntu-17.10-
BIOS-
Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people
might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like
this.

'news like this' meaning that one particular Linux distribution has an
issue with their most recent release? I guess MS never had a problem
with
an initial release of any windows version.

Can you recall Windows being responsible for corrupting a BIOS, sinec
Windows 1.0?


Does this count, twitboy:

'Windows 10 corrupted my BIOS'

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-performance-winpc/windows-10-corrupted-my-bios/0a7e5acb-78b7-43be-87e9-f24aedefb4be


How about this:

'Windows10 auto-update just corrupted my DVD player, then my bios'

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-update-winpc/windows10-auto-update-just-corrupted-my-dvd-player/1d9bbcc4-c146-4cc4-b0ec-af48dad1c1ba


Or this:

'After windows update my BIOS is corrupted and system will not boot '

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/after-windows-update-my-bios-is-corrupted-and/d3da6560-bc52-4da3-9c51-4ccb675207f9

I have one uefi motherboard that once had win8.1, but wouldn't boot.
Couldn't get it to do anything.
Second motherboard booted into the uefi just fine until I installed
win8.1. 8.1 ran fine until I cycled power.
After the first power cycle, it never booted again. Supposed to have
the ability
to boot from a thumb drive to restore bios, but it wouldn't read the flash.

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 02:41:00 -0600,
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-17.10-BIOS-Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

This comes as no surprise to me. I wanted to try Linux some years ago.
I wrote some ISO files to flash drives to make them bootable, and
runable. I began with several brand new flash drives.

Not only did many of them not boot on any of my computers, but these
ISO files literally killed the flash drives. Most of them had 5 writes
or less. After killing 5 or 6 flash drives, I quit all linux use after
that. Even the few distros that did boot, did not impresse me.

I guess I can be thankful that my only losses were about $35 worth of
flash drives, and not a motherboard or entire computer.


I've run several versions of Linux from CDs, DVDs, flash drives, AND
more. Never had a problem.