The crazy cursor update

On 8/28/2019 10:56 PM, RHB wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil"
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 8:47 PM
Subject: The crazy cursor update


On 8/28/2019 1:57 PM, RHB wrote:
They suspect it's the mother-board. Any ideas. I don't know where to go
from here. Take it to another repair shop? Try and buy a MB and install
it
ourselves. I'd hate to have to recycle it because it's only 13 months
old
and my favorite LT.


Unless you experienced something that would physically damage the
motherboard, such as a large voltage surge, this sounds like a driver
problem to me. Unfortunately, it may not be an easy one to solve, but I
would start by thoroughly studying the System Error Log. That should give
you some idea what is failing.

All I can find is the event viewer. What is the relevent info there? I see
no "error log" anywhere there. The search feature a the botton left next to
the start button doesn't search the computer, just the net. Does error log
have another name under W-10?

(Event Viewer Windows Logs System) You might also want to check
Setup and Application logs. You will be able to see if there is a problem.

--
best regards,

Neil

RHB wrote:
I finally took the touch screen HP laptop (W-10) to the shop in town. No one
had a answer to the problem online. They did a System Recovery which they
said would remove all crapware. They reinstalled the latest in W-10 and
updated all drivers. They did not charge me anything because the System
Recovery made the LT worse. At least the keyboard worked before. The
onscreen KY works but the mouse has to be used to tell it where to put the
chosen letters. The mouse only works on and off, mostly off.

In Googling today and trying to follow what I'm reading - there is no
Keyboard listed in device manager for that LT. It's as if it never existed.
What happened that it was not installed during the Recovery? The keyboard
and touch pad are dead, the touch screen is dead, the cursor is now stuck to
the Start button a good part of the time.

They suspect it's the mother-board. Any ideas. I don't know where to go
from here. Take it to another repair shop? Try and buy a MB and install it
ourselves. I'd hate to have to recycle it because it's only 13 months old
and my favorite LT.

As others have mentioned, "They suspect it's the mother-board." mostly
means "We don't have a clue."

A hardware problem is possible, but sofar there is no indication that
it is likely. More likely are fscked up drivers, especially now these
clowns "updated all drivers", a big no-no in troubleshooting.

See the advice of others to try the problem devices in the BIOS (easy)
or/and a bootable Linux (probably not so easy for you).

And see my advice in your previous thread:

From: Frank Slootweg
Subject: Cursor went wild - W-10 HP laptop
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Message-ID:
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 12:01:38 -0000

When you respond, at least report what it says in Device Manager
under:

- Human Interface Devices
- Keyboards
- Mice and other pointing devices

For each of these categories, open them (by clicking on the right
trangle), list each of the members and check/list the Properties tabs of
these members.

I.e. for example:

Keyboards - Standard PS/2 Keyboard - right-click - Properties -
'General' tab - Device status - What does it say?

Of course screenshots are fine as well.

"Rabid Robot" wrote in message
...
On 2019-08-28 10:20 p.m., RHB wrote:


Do you think this is a hardware problem? Why does it more or less work
when
first turned on after a rest period, then goes nuts?

If a clean install didn't work in Windows and the issue appears in
Linux, chances are that hardware is indeed at fault. You said that this
was a Dell machine?

It's a HP machine. It's just so weird because it works fine for hours or
for a few minutes. I never know when I turn it on how long it will work.
That's why the guy at the Shop thought it was an intermitten short in the
mother board. Tonight I couldn't get it to work long enough to download
anything no less Linux. I think I have a copy of Linox on a DVD but trying
to get it to work long enough to download and install Linux doesn't seem
possible. I can try and run it from the DVD drive if I can manage to get to
the DVD drive before it goes bonkers.

The log showed all kinds of errors but went nuts before I could get a screen
shot.

I think I'll download linux on this machine and try and install it on the
sick one.

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 00:28:22 -0400, "RHB" wrote:


"Rabid Robot" wrote in message
...
On 2019-08-28 10:20 p.m., RHB wrote:


Do you think this is a hardware problem? Why does it more or less work
when
first turned on after a rest period, then goes nuts?

If a clean install didn't work in Windows and the issue appears in
Linux, chances are that hardware is indeed at fault. You said that this
was a Dell machine?

It's a HP machine. It's just so weird because it works fine for hours or
for a few minutes. I never know when I turn it on how long it will work.
That's why the guy at the Shop thought it was an intermitten short in the
mother board. Tonight I couldn't get it to work long enough to download
anything no less Linux. I think I have a copy of Linox on a DVD but trying
to get it to work long enough to download and install Linux doesn't seem
possible. I can try and run it from the DVD drive if I can manage to get to
the DVD drive before it goes bonkers.

The log showed all kinds of errors but went nuts before I could get a screen
shot.

I think I'll download linux on this machine and try and install it on the
sick one.

As others have pointed out, you don't need to install Linux, you just
need to boot Linux.

If that's too difficult, others have also pointed out that you can boot
into the BIOS setup screens and let it sit there, cooking, to see if
similar issues crop up. The whole idea behind these things is to take
your current Windows installation out of the picture long enough to see
whether the problem exists outside of Windows.

These things have been suggested several times already.

"Char Jackson" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 22:23:01 -0400, "RHB" wrote:


"Rabid Robot" wrote in message
...

Trying to install a motherboard into a laptop yourself, especially if
you've never done it before, is not a good idea.

I believe you're right. I wish I knew for sure what hardware is causing
this. I don't know if I should take it somewhere else like Best Buy or
another Mom & Pop place.

What happened when you booted a live Linux CD/DVD/USB? Did all of the
hardware work?

How do I boot it from the DVD drive? It didn't boot from the DVD drive. I
went into windows explorer and opened it but there is no way to access it.
How is that done? Luinux is on a DVD.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Char Jackson wrote:

What happened when you booted a live Linux CD/DVD/USB? Did all of the
hardware work?

Or even boot into the BIOS, leave it for an while, does the KB still
function, sometimes the mouse will too for modern UEFI type "BIOS"

I haven't been in the BIOS. The KB functions on and off. The mouse also.
How do I boot from the DVD drive? I see no way to acces Linux to use it.
When turned on it boots into Windows.

As mentioned elsewhere, the log showed loads of errors but vanished before I
could get a screen shot or Snip. I can't download it on the sick LT because
as soon as I open a browser numberous pages appear and all kinds of MS
windows.

"Neil" wrote in message
...
On 8/28/2019 10:56 PM, RHB wrote:

All I can find is the event viewer. What is the relevent info there? I
see
no "error log" anywhere there. The search feature a the botton left next
to
the start button doesn't search the computer, just the net. Does error
log
have another name under W-10?

(Event Viewer Windows Logs System) You might also want to check Setup
and Application logs. You will be able to see if there is a problem.

OK, found it. There were hundreds of errors and those question triangles.
Something seems really wrong. See posts above. I have Linux on a DVD but
don't know how to install it from there. I copied it to the desktop but
can't run it. I see no way to run it. The sick LT doesn't boot from the
drive. Windows loads.


--
best regards,

Neil

"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
...
RHB wrote:
They suspect it's the mother-board. Any ideas. I don't know where to go
from here. Take it to another repair shop? Try and buy a MB and install
it
ourselves. I'd hate to have to recycle it because it's only 13 months
old
and my favorite LT.

As others have mentioned, "They suspect it's the mother-board." mostly
means "We don't have a clue."

A hardware problem is possible, but sofar there is no indication that
it is likely. More likely are fscked up drivers, especially now these
clowns "updated all drivers", a big no-no in troubleshooting.

When I got it home I did a Recovery on it to get rid of whatever they did
while there. It didn't help at all.

See the advice of others to try the problem devices in the BIOS (easy)
or/and a bootable Linux (probably not so easy for you).

I have Linux on a DVD but that LT wont boot from it. Windows loads. I don't
know how to get Linux installed. I copied it to the desktop but see no way
to use it.


And see my advice in your previous thread:

From: Frank Slootweg
Subject: Cursor went wild - W-10 HP laptop
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Message-ID:
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 12:01:38 -0000

When you respond, at least report what it says in Device Manager
under:

- Human Interface Devices
- Keyboards
- Mice and other pointing devices

Everything I could find it said it was working correctly, even the insane
mouse. Yet the KB, touch screen and touch pad are not working or work
sporadically.


For each of these categories, open them (by clicking on the right
trangle), list each of the members and check/list the Properties tabs of
these members.

I.e. for example:

Keyboards - Standard PS/2 Keyboard - right-click - Properties -
'General' tab - Device status - What does it say?

Everything I found yesterday said it was working correctly or something
similar. It was frustraiting. I'll see if I can get to them again. Yet the
log showed endless errors.


Of course screenshots are fine as well.

These newsgroups do not allow images. I'll see about posting them somewhere
and post the link here. That is if I can get that LT to work long enough to
find those things again.

RHB wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Char Jackson wrote:

What happened when you booted a live Linux CD/DVD/USB? Did all of the
hardware work?

Or even boot into the BIOS, leave it for an while, does the KB still
function, sometimes the mouse will too for modern UEFI type "BIOS"

I haven't been in the BIOS. The KB functions on and off. The mouse also.
How do I boot from the DVD drive? I see no way to acces Linux to use it.
When turned on it boots into Windows.

As mentioned elsewhere, the log showed loads of errors but vanished before I
could get a screen shot or Snip. I can't download it on the sick LT because
as soon as I open a browser numberous pages appear and all kinds of MS
windows.

Damaged or stuck key board button?

RHB wrote:
"Rabid Robot" wrote in message
...
On 2019-08-28 10:20 p.m., RHB wrote:

Do you think this is a hardware problem? Why does it more or less work
when
first turned on after a rest period, then goes nuts?
If a clean install didn't work in Windows and the issue appears in
Linux, chances are that hardware is indeed at fault. You said that this
was a Dell machine?

It's a HP machine. It's just so weird because it works fine for hours or
for a few minutes. I never know when I turn it on how long it will work.
That's why the guy at the Shop thought it was an intermitten short in the
mother board. Tonight I couldn't get it to work long enough to download
anything no less Linux. I think I have a copy of Linox on a DVD but trying
to get it to work long enough to download and install Linux doesn't seem
possible. I can try and run it from the DVD drive if I can manage to get to
the DVD drive before it goes bonkers.

The log showed all kinds of errors but went nuts before I could get a screen
shot.

I think I'll download linux on this machine and try and install it on the
sick one.

On some other machine, download an ISO and either make a DVD
or transfer the file (using "dd") to a USB stick.

You boot the machine with the media you've created.

This is called a "Live" session, because most of what is
being done, is held in RAM. A "good" amount of RAM today,
is maybe 2GB of RAM, to handle a fair number of distros.
Puppy or FatDog might have a smaller footprint.

Your home directory is then mounted on RAM. So /home/ubuntu
is a ramdisk. The /tmp is a ramdisk. When you download additional
software packages, it uses a bit of RAM.

And this is all without zorching any hard drives or installing
anything. As long as you have a bit of RAM to work with,
you're golden.

On some distros, on the boot line, you can add

TORAM=yes

to the end of the line, like this

quiet splash --- # the normal end of line

TORAM=yes # remote the cruft above, add the argument you want

What that does, is if the DVD is 1.4GB, it adds about 3 minutes
to boot time, but it also puts the entire 1.4GB DVD into RAM
too. This makes it possible to eject the DVD, and every bit
of the session is in RAM. A 4GB or 8GB machine makes this practical.

Maybe an 18.3 from here would be good.

https://www.linuxmint.com/download_all.php

18.3 Sylvia

MATE (64-bit)

https://www.linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=248

An example of making a USB stick would be

sudo dd if=some.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=2048 # divide power-of-two number into
# size, to make transfer more efficient
# bs=1M is more desirable, if it divides evenly

On Windows, you can use dd.exe from chrysocome.
Run in an Administrator Command Prompt. Run "dd --list"
first to get the device names to use.

(Manual page)
http://www.chrysocome.net/dd

http://www.chrysocome.net/downloads/dd-0.6beta3.zip

dd.exe if=some.iso of=\\?\Device\Harddisk1\Partition0 bs=2048

That's the basic procedure for putting a hybrid Linux distro
onto a USB stick. Assumes the USB stick is at least 2GB to
start with (for a 1.8GB ISO). Modern USB sticks are a lot
larger than that, so there should not be a problem.

Cleaning the USB stick later (in Windows) is a bitch :-/
There is a claim that recent Windows 10 versions support
multiple partitions on a USB flash, but I'm not sure that
really helps. Using "diskpart", there is always the "clean"
option, which is likely to work well for MSDOS partitioned
items, but is less likely to help with GPT. Using "clean all"
in diskpart, is a waste of write cycles on the flash, but
sometimes it's the only way to get rid of all traces of GPT
partitioning. The different versions of Windows will have
all manner of discouraging symptoms when working with
USB flash.

HTH,
Paul

RHB wrote:
"Char Jackson" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 22:23:01 -0400, "RHB" wrote:

"Rabid Robot" wrote in message
...
Trying to install a motherboard into a laptop yourself, especially if
you've never done it before, is not a good idea.
I believe you're right. I wish I knew for sure what hardware is causing
this. I don't know if I should take it somewhere else like Best Buy or
another Mom & Pop place.
What happened when you booted a live Linux CD/DVD/USB? Did all of the
hardware work?

How do I boot it from the DVD drive? It didn't boot from the DVD drive. I
went into windows explorer and opened it but there is no way to access it.
How is that done? Luinux is on a DVD.

Obiwan, crack open the manual on that HP and find

Key to enter BIOS setup screen = ???

Key to enter Popup Boot menu = ???

Usually some of the documentation has this info.

*******

The Popup Boot presents a list of "registered" physical
devices with some sorta media on them. You press the
popup boot key promptly after power-up. My Acer laptop
has a *1 second* wide window to press the F2 key, as an
example. My Asus motherboards, the interval is probably
five to ten seconds.

If you select a DVD, there is a second issue.

The screen will show

"Press any key to boot from DVD"

and that shows a variable amount of time after you
select the DVD drive in the Popup Boot menu. Keep
your eyes peeled for that! As if you miss that
stupid prompt to press the space bar, it'll try
to boot from the hard drive (again).

Paul

RHB wrote:
"Neil" wrote in message
...
On 8/28/2019 10:56 PM, RHB wrote:
All I can find is the event viewer. What is the relevent info there? I
see
no "error log" anywhere there. The search feature a the botton left next
to
the start button doesn't search the computer, just the net. Does error
log
have another name under W-10?

(Event Viewer Windows Logs System) You might also want to check Setup
and Application logs. You will be able to see if there is a problem.

OK, found it. There were hundreds of errors and those question triangles.
Something seems really wrong. See posts above. I have Linux on a DVD but
don't know how to install it from there. I copied it to the desktop but
can't run it. I see no way to run it. The sick LT doesn't boot from the
drive. Windows loads.

FFS. You don't install it!

Good distros offer LiveDVDs, which use RAM for
storage for the session. Instead of needing a disk
drive, /home/ubuntu is stored in RAM, as is /tmp.

Whether there is a donut icon with the word "install"
on the screen, or a boot time prompt to "boot into install mode",
you don't use those for the quick tests you hope to do.

This is not a time for making things worse by messing
up partitions on the hard drive or SSD drive. Just
Live boot and do your testing. Use the HID devices on
the LT and leave it at that.

And if you can figure out how to get a Terminal, you
can use

cat /etc/lsb-release

or similar, to dump details of what DVD you've decided to use.

Some (lucky) distros have "inxi" utility right on the
media, which is a god-send when dumping details about
the machine. You also have

sudo lsusb
sudo lspci

to show hardware details that Linux can see.

Paul

RHB wrote:
[...]
I have Linux on a DVD but that LT wont boot from it. Windows loads. I
don't know how to get Linux installed. I copied it to the desktop but
see no way to use it.

As others have mentioned, look in the documentation of your computer
to see how to interrupt the boot sequence by pressing a key during
bootup.

During bootup, the computer will probably shortly mention - in the
lower left corner - *which* key to press.

As you have an HP laptop, pressing the 'f10' function key will
probably let you 'Enter BIOS Setup Utility' from which you can enter the
boot menu and boot from the DVD drive. 'f9' will probably invoke the
boot menu directly.

Note that you might have to try this several times, because there is
only a short time window in which the BIOS responds to the key. It's
often best to just repeatedly press the key as soon as you switch on the
machine.

As has been mentioned several times, while you're in the BIOS, *first*
try if the keyboardS (plural), mouse, touchpad and touchscreen work in
the BIOS and for how long. I.e. the BIOS is your first non-Windows test
environment, Linux is your second non-Windows test environment.

[...]

On 8/30/2019 12:59 AM, RHB wrote:
"Neil" wrote in message
...
On 8/28/2019 10:56 PM, RHB wrote:

All I can find is the event viewer. What is the relevent info there? I
see
no "error log" anywhere there. The search feature a the botton left next
to
the start button doesn't search the computer, just the net. Does error
log
have another name under W-10?

(Event Viewer Windows Logs System) You might also want to check Setup
and Application logs. You will be able to see if there is a problem.

OK, found it. There were hundreds of errors and those question triangles.
Something seems really wrong. See posts above. I have Linux on a DVD but
don't know how to install it from there. I copied it to the desktop but
can't run it. I see no way to run it. The sick LT doesn't boot from the
drive. Windows loads.

STUDY the errors, don't just look at them. Are any of those errors
associated with missing mouse/touchscreen drivers? It sounds to me that
you're trying to find a painless "quick fix" rather than actually
address your problem. After what you've already done to that computer,
there isn't likely to be such a fix.

If you followed the directions given by others regarding booting Linux
from a thumb drive, you *might* discover that the requisite drivers are
on your computer and functional, but that also won't fix anything under
Windows.

--
best regards,

Neil

On 2019-08-30 12:28 a.m., RHB wrote:
"Rabid Robot" wrote in message
...
On 2019-08-28 10:20 p.m., RHB wrote:


Do you think this is a hardware problem? Why does it more or less work
when
first turned on after a rest period, then goes nuts?

If a clean install didn't work in Windows and the issue appears in
Linux, chances are that hardware is indeed at fault. You said that this
was a Dell machine?

It's a HP machine. It's just so weird because it works fine for hours or
for a few minutes. I never know when I turn it on how long it will work.
That's why the guy at the Shop thought it was an intermitten short in the
mother board. Tonight I couldn't get it to work long enough to download
anything no less Linux. I think I have a copy of Linox on a DVD but trying
to get it to work long enough to download and install Linux doesn't seem
possible. I can try and run it from the DVD drive if I can manage to get to
the DVD drive before it goes bonkers.

The log showed all kinds of errors but went nuts before I could get a screen
shot.

I think I'll download linux on this machine and try and install it on the
sick one.

Overheating would have been my first thought when the computer runs in
such an unreliable way but it is very likely that the motherboard is
indeed an issue. No matter how bad HP computers might be, even with
their low standards it is not normal for things to run that poorly. You
might want to contact the manufacturer directly if the computer is still
under warranty.