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Help with buying new hard drive



 
 
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  #31  
Old March 11th 15, 02:31 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
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Posts: 18,275
Default Help with buying new hard drive

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Stormin' Norman:
Have you checked your administrative error logs to see if you are generating a
lot of DISK or other errors?


+1.

Couple times I have had a drive that was throwing errors slow the entire
system down - and there was no way to know about that unless one checked
error logs and/or something like Hard Disk Sentinel.


Sure. Just use the free version of HDTune and
do a read benchmark curve. It'll give you some
idea how really healthy the disk is. If there is a
bad patch in the disk, it will likely show a
characteristic result (a flat spot).

HDTune can sometimes catch an issue, before the
Reallocated Sector count field in SMART does.

Paul
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  #32  
Old March 11th 15, 02:22 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Johnny
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Posts: 306
Default Help with buying new hard drive

On Tue, 10 Mar 2015 16:12:36 -0700
"Gene E. Bloch" wrote:

On Tue, 10 Mar 2015 17:17:58 -0500, Johnny wrote:

On Tue, 10 Mar 2015 15:07:25 -0700
"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote:

On Tue, 10 Mar 2015 15:58:32 -0500, Johnny
wrote:

I'm not happy with this computer the way it is, and I don't think
it's Windows 8.1 that's causing it to be slow. I think it has to
do with the Dell and Intel programs installed on it.

Definitely not! What is installed has *no* effect on a computer's
speed. What is *running* does.

Now, if the Dell and Intel programs are installed *and* running,
that's a different story. But it's easy to find out whether they
are causing it to be slow. Simply shut down the programs and see
how fast the computer then is (if necessary, you can "end task"
for them in Task Manager).


They are running, but I was afraid to shut them down, after reading
it caused a blue screen for some people that did shut them down.


If that happens to you, just restart. They will restart as well. No
big deal, but don't have any programs with unsaved files running when
you try it!.

If it is successful, you can experiment to see if it helps. If so,
then consider disabling them from starting up.


I shutdown the Dell and Intel programs that run at startup. There
seems to be some improvement, it only takes Control Panel 5 seconds to
open instead of ten. I disabled them in the startup menu.

These are the programs.

Dell Quickset Module

Intel igfxTray Module

Intel hkcmd Module

Intel persistence Module





  #33  
Old March 11th 15, 02:53 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Johnny
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Posts: 306
Default Help with buying new hard drive

On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 11:18:06 -0500
GlowingBlueMist wrote:

From what I've been able to locate, the existing drive is a standard
2.5 inch laptop SATA drive that is 7mm thick.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822178125

With that in mind, you could use any SATA 7200 RPM drive that is also
2.5 by 7mm in size.

Here is one that is also 500GB and runs around $50.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822178573

You might also consider upgrading to a SSD drive like one of these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148946
if speed is your only concern. It is also a drop in replacement for
what you currently have. Then you don't have to worry about bumping
the laptop and crashing the drive as the SSD has no moving parts,
runs cooler, and takes up much less battery usage as well.


You are right, after downloading the manual for the Dell computer, I
found the hard drive is 7 mm thick.

I have decided to go with another Seagate like the one in it, except it
will be an SSD. It's sixty five dollars, pretty cheap for an SSD.

I think I need this ST500LM001 model, but I'm not sure.

What does it mean when the drive has encryption?

My existing drive is SATA 3Gb/s and the drive I'm looking at is SATA
6Gb/s, does it matter?

http://www.seagate.com/internal-hard...d-drive/#specs







  #34  
Old March 11th 15, 03:23 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Johnny
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Posts: 306
Default Help with buying new hard drive

On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 13:44:04 +0000
Stormin' Norman wrote:

I shutdown the Dell and Intel programs that run at startup. There
seems to be some improvement, it only takes Control Panel 5 seconds
to open instead of ten. I disabled them in the startup menu.

These are the programs.

Dell Quickset Module

Intel igfxTray Module

Intel hkcmd Module

Intel persistence Module


While none of these are really required, they do not account for your
slow system.

Have you looked at your event log viewer yet?

In windows 8, use the win key+w, this opens the search box, then type
in "ev" and you should see "View Event Logs". Open that, on the left
side of the new window, expand "Custom View" then select
administrative events.

Look through the list for red circles with white exclamation marks
labeled "error".

Look at the errors logged for let's say the past 24 hours and let us
know what you find.


This one error seems to be the most important.

The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Harddisk1\DR4

I counted over thirty of these errors from 1/14/2015 until today.
  #35  
Old March 11th 15, 03:38 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Johnny
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Posts: 306
Default Help with buying new hard drive

On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 14:34:53 +0000
Stormin' Norman wrote:

This one error seems to be the most important.

The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Harddisk1\DR4

I counted over thirty of these errors from 1/14/2015 until today.


Harddisk1/DR4...... do you have a removable external drive connected
to the system? Even a flash drive?

If there are other errors you should post them here too. There are
many errors which can contribute to the problems you are having.


Yes I have plugged a USB flash drive into it.

I'm running a memory test right now. When it's finished I will post
more errors.
  #36  
Old March 11th 15, 04:20 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Johnny
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Posts: 306
Default Help with buying new hard drive

On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 14:47:34 +0000
Stormin' Norman wrote:

I doubt you have any memory issues, if you did, you would probably be
experiencing blue screens, rebooting or hanging randomly.

For purposes of diagnostics, I would eject the flash drive for the
time being.

Yes, post the other errors when you can.

Also, if you are using Mcaffee, that is the first piece of software I
would uninstall from the computer.

Next, if you know how to produce a screen capture, from the program
management control panel, it would be useful if you posted the list
of installed software.

Lastly, are you using the notebook primarily connected to A/C power
or on battery? When on battery power, most notebooks kick the CPU
into power saving mode, which involves dramatically reducing the
processing speed.


I'm not using the flash drive, that was yesterday.

There is nothing wrong with the memory.

The computer runs off the battery until it get low. I'll plug it in to
AC and see if that makes a difference.

Right now the Dell is installing 13 updates.




  #37  
Old March 11th 15, 04:25 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Johnny
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Posts: 306
Default Help with buying new hard drive

On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 14:34:53 +0000
Stormin' Norman wrote:

If there are other errors you should post them here too. There are
many errors which can contribute to the problems you are having.


Here are most of the errors and warnings, they are just repeated many
times.



Error
The Open Procedure for service "BITS" in DLL
"C:\Windows\System32\bitsperf.dll" failed. Performance data for this
service will not be available. The first four bytes (DWORD) of the Data
section contains the error code.

Error
Windows Store failed to sync machine licenses. Result code 0x80070490

Error
Failed in handling the PowerEvent. The error that occurred was:
System.InvalidOperationException: The ChannelDispatcher at
'net.pipe://localhost/WinSvcReceiverPipe_4e9dbae5-7d0b-4c6f-af63-2dfcae65839d/Receiver_308fb0b1-585f-404c-abb4-6bedfed90039'
with contract(s) '"IDellUpdateWcfSession"' is unable to open its
IChannelListener. --- System.InvalidOperationException: A registration
already exists for URI
'net.pipe://localhost/WinSvcReceiverPipe_4e9dbae5-7d0b-4c6f-af63-2dfcae65839d/Receiver_308fb0b1-585f-404c-abb4-6bedfed90039'.
at System.ServiceModel.Channels.UriPrefixTable`1.Regi sterUri(Uri
uri, HostNameComparisonMode hostNameComparisonMode, TItem item)
at
System.ServiceModel.Channels.ConnectionOrientedTra nsportManager`1.Register(TransportChannelListener
channelListener)
at
System.ServiceModel.Channels.TransportManager.Open (TransportChannelListener
channelListener)
at
System.ServiceModel.Channels.TransportManagerConta iner.Open(SelectTransportManagersCallback
selectTransportManagerCallback)
at System.ServiceModel.Channels.TransportChannelListe ner.On....

Error
The master browser has received a server announcement from the computer
JSPC that believes that it is the master browser for the domain on
transport NetBT_Tcpip_{11EB4336-865B-4852-9473-F8F08EF5BDFC}. The master
browser is stopping or an election is being forced.

Warning
Access to drivers on Windows Update was blocked by policy

Warning
A service process other than the one launched by the Service Control
Manager connected when starting the ViceTampa service. The Service
Control Manager launched process 1380 and process 1388 connected instead.
Note that if this service is configured to start under a debugger, this
behavior is expected.

Warning
A provider, WpcWebSyncProvSecured, has been registered in the Windows
Management Instrumentation namespace
root\CIMV2\Applications\WindowsParentalControls\Se cured to use the
LocalSystem account. This account is privileged and the provider may
cause a security violation if it does not correctly impersonate user
requests.
  #38  
Old March 11th 15, 06:28 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
GlowingBlueMist[_6_]
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Posts: 378
Default Help with buying new hard drive

On 3/11/2015 8:53 AM, Johnny wrote:
On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 11:18:06 -0500
GlowingBlueMist wrote:

From what I've been able to locate, the existing drive is a standard
2.5 inch laptop SATA drive that is 7mm thick.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822178125

With that in mind, you could use any SATA 7200 RPM drive that is also
2.5 by 7mm in size.

Here is one that is also 500GB and runs around $50.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822178573

You might also consider upgrading to a SSD drive like one of these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148946
if speed is your only concern. It is also a drop in replacement for
what you currently have. Then you don't have to worry about bumping
the laptop and crashing the drive as the SSD has no moving parts,
runs cooler, and takes up much less battery usage as well.


You are right, after downloading the manual for the Dell computer, I
found the hard drive is 7 mm thick.

I have decided to go with another Seagate like the one in it, except it
will be an SSD. It's sixty five dollars, pretty cheap for an SSD.

I think I need this ST500LM001 model, but I'm not sure.

What does it mean when the drive has encryption?

My existing drive is SATA 3Gb/s and the drive I'm looking at is SATA
6Gb/s, does it matter?

http://www.seagate.com/internal-hard...d-drive/#specs

The difference in interface speed will not matter as the newer 6Gb/s is
downward compatible, much like USB3 and USB2.

The self encrypting drive means that the data encryption is built into
the hard drive or SSD interface controller. This is an anti-theft
feature that means if I pull your hard drive out of your PC I will not
be able to read the data from any other PC, with out your access
password. Give this link a read and remember to replace SSD for hard
drive as you read it.

http://www.computerweekly.com/featur...ption-security

The other thing is that if you wanted to encrypt the drive using an
older non-encrypting drive your PC had to spend CPU time
encrypting/decrypting the data all the time. With a SED drive it is
built into the drive and your motherboard and CPU don't have to be
slowed down doing the encryption/decryption.


  #39  
Old March 11th 15, 07:07 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Johnny
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Posts: 306
Default Help with buying new hard drive

On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:28:31 -0500
GlowingBlueMist wrote:

The difference in interface speed will not matter as the newer 6Gb/s
is downward compatible, much like USB3 and USB2.

The self encrypting drive means that the data encryption is built
into the hard drive or SSD interface controller. This is an
anti-theft feature that means if I pull your hard drive out of your
PC I will not be able to read the data from any other PC, with out
your access password. Give this link a read and remember to replace
SSD for hard drive as you read it.

http://www.computerweekly.com/featur...ption-security

The other thing is that if you wanted to encrypt the drive using an
older non-encrypting drive your PC had to spend CPU time
encrypting/decrypting the data all the time. With a SED drive it is
built into the drive and your motherboard and CPU don't have to be
slowed down doing the encryption/decryption.


All companies should be using these with a password to unlock the drive.

It's good to know you don't have to enter password to unlock the drive,
but it will still be encrypted if its stolen.

From the article:

The encryption key used in SEDs is called the Media Encryption Key
(MEK). Locking and unlocking a drive requires another key, called the
Key Encryption Key (KEK) supplied by the user (or the platform, or the
network).

As the name implies, the KEK is used to encrypt or decrypt the MEK. The
KEK is never stored in plaintext inside the drive. If no KEK is set,
the drive is always unlocked and appears not to be encrypting even
though it is.

  #40  
Old March 11th 15, 07:19 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Johnny
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Posts: 306
Default Help with buying new hard drive

On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 14:47:34 +0000
Stormin' Norman wrote:

Lastly, are you using the notebook primarily connected to A/C power
or on battery? When on battery power, most notebooks kick the CPU
into power saving mode, which involves dramatically reducing the
processing speed.


It looks like you solved the problem. After plugging into AC power and
using the computer, it is working the way it's supposed to.

I never noticed this before, but even with the battery fully charged,
the display becomes brighter when running from AC power.


  #41  
Old March 12th 15, 12:08 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
mechanic
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Posts: 1,064
Default Help with buying new hard drive

On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 13:19:43 -0500, Johnny wrote:

I never noticed this before, but even with the battery fully
charged, the display becomes brighter when running from AC power.


There's a setting for that. control panel - power options - click
on 'change power settings' as appropriate.
  #42  
Old March 12th 15, 12:16 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ron
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Posts: 507
Default Help with buying new hard drive

On 3/11/2015 7:08 PM, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 13:19:43 -0500, Johnny wrote:

I never noticed this before, but even with the battery fully
charged, the display becomes brighter when running from AC power.


There's a setting for that. control panel - power options - click
on 'change power settings' as appropriate.


Or just right click on the battery icon and then power options.
  #43  
Old March 12th 15, 01:56 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
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Posts: 18,275
Default Help with buying new hard drive

Johnny wrote:
On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 11:18:06 -0500
GlowingBlueMist wrote:

From what I've been able to locate, the existing drive is a standard
2.5 inch laptop SATA drive that is 7mm thick.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822178125

With that in mind, you could use any SATA 7200 RPM drive that is also
2.5 by 7mm in size.

Here is one that is also 500GB and runs around $50.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822178573

You might also consider upgrading to a SSD drive like one of these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148946
if speed is your only concern. It is also a drop in replacement for
what you currently have. Then you don't have to worry about bumping
the laptop and crashing the drive as the SSD has no moving parts,
runs cooler, and takes up much less battery usage as well.


You are right, after downloading the manual for the Dell computer, I
found the hard drive is 7 mm thick.

I have decided to go with another Seagate like the one in it, except it
will be an SSD. It's sixty five dollars, pretty cheap for an SSD.

I think I need this ST500LM001 model, but I'm not sure.

What does it mean when the drive has encryption?

My existing drive is SATA 3Gb/s and the drive I'm looking at is SATA
6Gb/s, does it matter?

http://www.seagate.com/internal-hard...d-drive/#specs


That's a page full of SSHD drives.

Those are not SSD drives.

An SSHD consists of:

8GB flash (used as a cache, probably a read cache)
A rotating platter, just like a hard drive

The Flash operates as a cache.

So it has the same unreliability level as a regular hard drive.
With a slight (uneven) boost when reading certain files.

*******

Unless the drive includes software for controlling the encryption,
don't buy it. Buy a non-encrypted drive. Full disk encryption,
the best way is if it is integrated with the laptop BIOS, and
a BIOS prompt asks for a password.

If you want another rotating drive, of 500GB capacity, there
is one listed in the "thin" section here.

http://www.seagate.com/www-content/p...0-1-1402gb.pdf

ST500LM021 7200RPM 500GB --- a slightly warmer replacement for your drive
ST500LT012 5400RPM 500GB --- your existing, non-encrypted drive

A 512GB SSD would cost a fortune.

A 500GB SSHD with 8GB Flash would be a bit more
expensive than a 500GB HD. The performance will
be "uneven". Some OS operations may perform
very quickly. But sustained write (saving out
a video edit in your video editor), will be
"platter limited", and little better than
the two rotating drives in the previous paragraph.
Sooner or later, on a sustained transfer, the
platter is the rate-limiting step.

I don't know how cost sensitive you are, so I can't
gauge which direction I should push my recommendation.

The best compromise, is a pure SSD. Say 128GB.
For around $100. Make *sure* it has MLC flash chips.
Not any TLC flash chips. You will need to "clone+resize"
to move the data. Macrium can do that. Acronis likely
too.

The 8GB cache on an SSHD, can be the good stuff, the SLC
chips. You would also want to verify that is what
is present in the cache. SLC is the best. MLC is good
for regular SSDs (because they have overcapacity and
spare sectors to burn). TLC, after about three months,
*every* sector that hasn't been updated regularly,
throws errors at the raw level. The error correction
block fixes *all* of those. But, the price you pay,
is reduced read speed. The drive still works. It
just doesn't meet the 550MB/sec read speed promised
any more. So it's a "spec failure" in a sense. If
they're going to list TLC SSD drives for sale,
they should list the "stale read rate" with full
error correction applied to each and every sector.

TLC needs heavy-weight error correction. The engineers
know the noise margin is slimmer. The only mistake
they make, is not computing the syndrome and error
corrector stuff, with dedicated logic. The slow
speed tells me the multi-core processor in the
SSD is doing error correction on-the-fly. Still
impressive, but not good enough if you want
to meet the "550MB/sec" spec for the entire
life of the drive.

The least intrusive change, is the 7200RPM hard drive.
You still get the 500GB capacity as before.

ST500LM021

Something like this, is a little more expensive
(probably 2x the hard drive price), but the
performance level would be noticeable. Your
wife will see the difference. But if the original
drive was 90% full of data, of course all her
data won't fit. If the original drive is
mostly empty, this is a good solution.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148820

The only thing I'm concerned about with SSDs,
is the lack of ventilation in some laptops,
and the degree to which the power consumption
figures are not properly stated. The rotating
hard drive, draws 5 watts for only the first
ten seconds or so (spinup), whereas some of those
SSD drives draw close to that power level while
doing a sustained write. So the drive bay could
end up getting a bit warmer. Hard drives tend to
have decent idle power, but if you believed
the spec sheets, SSDs should be "cold as ice".
And I don't think that is really true.

And as is normal, you cannot expect every SSD
drive ever made, to have reviewer power measurements.
If I was reviewing a drive, I'd provide power
numbers. But few Internet reviewers have the
skill or interest. Even Anandtech, at one time
they got a clamp-on ammeter for some review. But
they didn't make such an approach a regular feature.

A couple of the review sites, they engage an engineer
to make a custom measurement setup for them. But even
they don't maintain that setup for more than a couple
years, before it disappears again.

Paul
  #44  
Old March 12th 15, 09:47 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
John Doe[_8_]
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Posts: 2,378
Default Help with buying new hard drive

I haven't shopped for a hard drive in a while. No doubt there are 2 TB
namebrand hard drives for $50 now. It's like "wow" without even looking.
The beat goes on.
  #45  
Old March 12th 15, 09:55 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
John Doe[_8_]
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Posts: 2,378
Default Help with buying new hard drive

Paul wrote:

spare sectors to burn). TLC, after about three months,
*every* sector that hasn't been updated regularly,
throws errors at the raw level. The error correction
block fixes *all* of those. But, the price you pay,
is reduced read speed. The drive still works. It
just doesn't meet the 550MB/sec read speed promised
any more. So it's a "spec failure" in a sense. If
they're going to list TLC SSD drives for sale,
they should list the "stale read rate" with full
error correction applied to each and every sector.


That's beautiful, Paul.
 




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