The crazy cursor update

I finally took the touch screen HP laptop (W-10) to the shop in town. No one
had a answer to the problem online. They did a System Recovery which they
said would remove all crapware. They reinstalled the latest in W-10 and
updated all drivers. They did not charge me anything because the System
Recovery made the LT worse. At least the keyboard worked before. The
onscreen KY works but the mouse has to be used to tell it where to put the
chosen letters. The mouse only works on and off, mostly off.

In Googling today and trying to follow what I'm reading - there is no
Keyboard listed in device manager for that LT. It's as if it never existed.
What happened that it was not installed during the Recovery? The keyboard
and touch pad are dead, the touch screen is dead, the cursor is now stuck to
the Start button a good part of the time.

They suspect it's the mother-board. Any ideas. I don't know where to go
from here. Take it to another repair shop? Try and buy a MB and install it
ourselves. I'd hate to have to recycle it because it's only 13 months old
and my favorite LT.

RHB wrote:

They suspect it's the mother-board. Any ideas

If you use a USB or bluetooth mouse or keyboard, do they work?

no HID devices show up at all in device manager?

On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 13:57:55 -0400
"RHB" wrote:

I finally took the touch screen HP laptop (W-10) to the shop in town.
No one had a answer to the problem online. They did a System Recovery
which they said would remove all crapware. They reinstalled the
latest in W-10 and updated all drivers. They did not charge me
anything because the System Recovery made the LT worse. At least the
keyboard worked before. The onscreen KY works but the mouse has to be
used to tell it where to put the chosen letters. The mouse only
works on and off, mostly off.

In Googling today and trying to follow what I'm reading - there is
no Keyboard listed in device manager for that LT. It's as if it
never existed. What happened that it was not installed during the
Recovery? The keyboard and touch pad are dead, the touch screen is
dead, the cursor is now stuck to the Start button a good part of the
time.

They suspect it's the mother-board. Any ideas. I don't know where to
go from here. Take it to another repair shop? Try and buy a MB and
install it ourselves. I'd hate to have to recycle it because it's
only 13 months old and my favorite LT.



Try Linux Mint or MX Linux on it, and see if you have that cursor
problem.

You don't have to install it, run it from a USB Stick.

RHB wrote:
I finally took the touch screen HP laptop (W-10) to the shop in town. No one
had a answer to the problem online. They did a System Recovery which they
said would remove all crapware. They reinstalled the latest in W-10 and
updated all drivers. They did not charge me anything because the System
Recovery made the LT worse. At least the keyboard worked before. The
onscreen KY works but the mouse has to be used to tell it where to put the
chosen letters. The mouse only works on and off, mostly off.

In Googling today and trying to follow what I'm reading - there is no
Keyboard listed in device manager for that LT. It's as if it never existed.
What happened that it was not installed during the Recovery? The keyboard
and touch pad are dead, the touch screen is dead, the cursor is now stuck to
the Start button a good part of the time.

They suspect it's the mother-board. Any ideas. I don't know where to go
from here. Take it to another repair shop? Try and buy a MB and install it
ourselves. I'd hate to have to recycle it because it's only 13 months old
and my favorite LT.

I usually recommend to people that they make a backup
image of the hard drive, before giving a computer to
a shop for repair.

There have been a few cases, where some trivial problem,
they erase C: and all the user data files, and reinstall
the OS.

*******

You could use the BIOS setup screen as a test case.

UEFI interfaces for BIOS setup, have a GUI. They accept
cursor up and down keys. You can use the Mouse. Maybe
the Touchpad also works in there. This is an example
of an "OS" before the real OS runs.

If you can't do anything, can't get into the BIOS, then
it probably is a hardware problem. It doesn't have to
be "motherboard", which is a way of saying "we don't
know what it is". I remember one shop owner, kept
"blaming the MOSFETs" for every problem under the
sun. Some of these mom and pop shops, have strange
fixations with stuff.

The HIDs have hardware, which is generating signals. It
could be, for example, a problem with the touchscreen
sensor array and the chip in the touchscreen that converts
inputs into USB packets.

The motherboard components might be perfectly happy.
And just the touchscreen is generating a blizzard of
events and the driver doesn't know what to do with them.

It sounds like it's some hardware component, but you'd
need a way to disable them one at a time, and that can
be hard to do and remain in control of the machine.

That's a kind of "fault isolation", where you eliminate
items as being contenders, as you go through the hardware
list.

*******

With a linux LiveDvD or USB stick, you could use (in Terminal)

sudo lsusb
sudo lspci

and see if the basic hardware items are reporting in.

When it comes to Human Interface Devices, they have all
sorts of crazy ways of connecting them. While you would
expect USB to be used, they could be serial or PS/2,
and in some cases, the hardware lacks PNP (plug and play)
information. This also makes it difficult to (safely)
make drivers for the things, because without PNP, the
driver doesn't know if this is the right computer
to be using the driver or not. Let's just hope this
machine doesn't have a "hodge-podge" of bus connections
for this stuff.

Paul

On 2019-08-28 1:57 p.m., RHB wrote:
I finally took the touch screen HP laptop (W-10) to the shop in town. No one
had a answer to the problem online. They did a System Recovery which they
said would remove all crapware. They reinstalled the latest in W-10 and
updated all drivers. They did not charge me anything because the System
Recovery made the LT worse. At least the keyboard worked before. The
onscreen KY works but the mouse has to be used to tell it where to put the
chosen letters. The mouse only works on and off, mostly off.

In Googling today and trying to follow what I'm reading - there is no
Keyboard listed in device manager for that LT. It's as if it never existed.
What happened that it was not installed during the Recovery? The keyboard
and touch pad are dead, the touch screen is dead, the cursor is now stuck to
the Start button a good part of the time.

They suspect it's the mother-board. Any ideas. I don't know where to go
from here. Take it to another repair shop? Try and buy a MB and install it
ourselves. I'd hate to have to recycle it because it's only 13 months old
and my favorite LT.

Trying to install a motherboard into a laptop yourself, especially if
you've never done it before, is not a good idea.

On 8/28/2019 1:57 PM, RHB wrote:
I finally took the touch screen HP laptop (W-10) to the shop in town. No one
had a answer to the problem online. They did a System Recovery which they
said would remove all crapware. They reinstalled the latest in W-10 and
updated all drivers. They did not charge me anything because the System
Recovery made the LT worse. At least the keyboard worked before. The
onscreen KY works but the mouse has to be used to tell it where to put the
chosen letters. The mouse only works on and off, mostly off.

In Googling today and trying to follow what I'm reading - there is no
Keyboard listed in device manager for that LT. It's as if it never existed.
What happened that it was not installed during the Recovery? The keyboard
and touch pad are dead, the touch screen is dead, the cursor is now stuck to
the Start button a good part of the time.

They suspect it's the mother-board. Any ideas. I don't know where to go
from here. Take it to another repair shop? Try and buy a MB and install it
ourselves. I'd hate to have to recycle it because it's only 13 months old
and my favorite LT.


Unless you experienced something that would physically damage the
motherboard, such as a large voltage surge, this sounds like a driver
problem to me. Unfortunately, it may not be an easy one to solve, but I
would start by thoroughly studying the System Error Log. That should
give you some idea what is failing.

--
best regards,

Neil

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Burns"
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 2:22 PM
Subject: The crazy cursor update


RHB wrote:

They suspect it's the mother-board. Any ideas

If you use a USB or bluetooth mouse or keyboard, do they work?

They work on and off.

no HID devices show up at all in device manager?

No. But tonight Keyboards shows up in device manager.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul"
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 4:16 PM
Subject: The crazy cursor update


RHB wrote:
I finally took the touch screen HP laptop (W-10) to the shop in town. No
one had a answer to the problem online. They did a System Recovery which
they said would remove all crapware. They reinstalled the latest in W-10
and updated all drivers. They did not charge me anything because the
System Recovery made the LT worse. At least the keyboard worked before.
The onscreen KY works but the mouse has to be used to tell it where to
put the chosen letters. The mouse only works on and off, mostly off.

In Googling today and trying to follow what I'm reading - there is no
Keyboard listed in device manager for that LT. It's as if it never
existed. What happened that it was not installed during the Recovery? The
keyboard and touch pad are dead, the touch screen is dead, the cursor is
now stuck to the Start button a good part of the time.

They suspect it's the mother-board. Any ideas. I don't know where to go
from here. Take it to another repair shop? Try and buy a MB and install
it ourselves. I'd hate to have to recycle it because it's only 13 months
old and my favorite LT.

I usually recommend to people that they make a backup
image of the hard drive, before giving a computer to
a shop for repair.

There have been a few cases, where some trivial problem,
they erase C: and all the user data files, and reinstall
the OS.

*******

You could use the BIOS setup screen as a test case.

UEFI interfaces for BIOS setup, have a GUI. They accept
cursor up and down keys. You can use the Mouse. Maybe
the Touchpad also works in there. This is an example
of an "OS" before the real OS runs.

If you can't do anything, can't get into the BIOS, then
it probably is a hardware problem. It doesn't have to
be "motherboard", which is a way of saying "we don't
know what it is". I remember one shop owner, kept
"blaming the MOSFETs" for every problem under the
sun. Some of these mom and pop shops, have strange
fixations with stuff.

The HIDs have hardware, which is generating signals. It
could be, for example, a problem with the touchscreen
sensor array and the chip in the touchscreen that converts
inputs into USB packets.

The motherboard components might be perfectly happy.
And just the touchscreen is generating a blizzard of
events and the driver doesn't know what to do with them.

It's been off for hours and I turned it on a it's working OK. That is
except for the touch screen. That's not working. The touch pad is. But it
doesn't last. Soom the cursor goes wacky and the second cursor appears as a
capitol I while the normal one sticks to the ON botton. Suddenly the
keyboard is working again again - I have i t right next to me here.


It sounds like it's some hardware component, but you'd
need a way to disable them one at a time, and that can
be hard to do and remain in control of the machine.

That's a kind of "fault isolation", where you eliminate
items as being contenders, as you go through the hardware
list.

*******

With a linux LiveDvD or USB stick, you could use (in Terminal)

sudo lsusb
sudo lspci

and see if the basic hardware items are reporting in.

They all seem to be now. When I shut it off earlier no Keyboard showed in
device manager. It shows now. It says it's stadard PS/2 keyboard. The
mouse is a HID-compliant mouse. Touchpad is SMBus.


When it comes to Human Interface Devices, they have all
sorts of crazy ways of connecting them. While you would
expect USB to be used, they could be serial or PS/2,
and in some cases, the hardware lacks PNP (plug and play)
information. This also makes it difficult to (safely)
make drivers for the things, because without PNP, the
driver doesn't know if this is the right computer
to be using the driver or not. Let's just hope this
machine doesn't have a "hodge-podge" of bus connections
for this stuff.

Paul


Do you think this is a hardware problem? Why does it more or less work when
first turned on after a rest period, then goes nuts?

"Rabid Robot" wrote in message
...
On 2019-08-28 1:57 p.m., RHB wrote:
I finally took the touch screen HP laptop (W-10) to the shop in town. No
one
had a answer to the problem online.


Trying to install a motherboard into a laptop yourself, especially if
you've never done it before, is not a good idea.

I believe you're right. I wish I knew for sure what hardware is causing
this. I don't know if I should take it somewhere else like Best Buy or
another Mom & Pop place.

On 2019-08-28 9:23 p.m., RHB wrote:
"Rabid Robot" wrote in message
...
On 2019-08-28 1:57 p.m., RHB wrote:
I finally took the touch screen HP laptop (W-10) to the shop in town. No
one
had a answer to the problem online.


Trying to install a motherboard into a laptop yourself, especially if
you've never done it before, is not a good idea.

I believe you're right. I wish I knew for sure what hardware is causing
this. I don't know if I should take it somewhere else like Best Buy or
another Mom & Pop place.



Just a thought, could it be a power supply or battery problem?

Rene

----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil"
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 8:47 PM
Subject: The crazy cursor update


On 8/28/2019 1:57 PM, RHB wrote:
They suspect it's the mother-board. Any ideas. I don't know where to go
from here. Take it to another repair shop? Try and buy a MB and install
it
ourselves. I'd hate to have to recycle it because it's only 13 months
old
and my favorite LT.


Unless you experienced something that would physically damage the
motherboard, such as a large voltage surge, this sounds like a driver
problem to me. Unfortunately, it may not be an easy one to solve, but I
would start by thoroughly studying the System Error Log. That should give
you some idea what is failing.

All I can find is the event viewer. What is the relevent info there? I see
no "error log" anywhere there. The search feature a the botton left next to
the start button doesn't search the computer, just the net. Does error log
have another name under W-10?



--
best regards,

Neil

On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 22:23:01 -0400, "RHB" wrote:


"Rabid Robot" wrote in message
...

Trying to install a motherboard into a laptop yourself, especially if
you've never done it before, is not a good idea.

I believe you're right. I wish I knew for sure what hardware is causing
this. I don't know if I should take it somewhere else like Best Buy or
another Mom & Pop place.

What happened when you booted a live Linux CD/DVD/USB? Did all of the
hardware work?

"Rene Lamontagne" wrote in message
...
On 2019-08-28 9:23 p.m., RHB wrote:
"Rabid Robot" wrote in message
...
On 2019-08-28 1:57 p.m., RHB wrote:
I finally took the touch screen HP laptop (W-10) to the shop in town.
No
one
had a answer to the problem online.


Trying to install a motherboard into a laptop yourself, especially if
you've never done it before, is not a good idea.

I believe you're right. I wish I knew for sure what hardware is causing
this. I don't know if I should take it somewhere else like Best Buy or
another Mom & Pop place.



Just a thought, could it be a power supply or battery problem?

Rene

Yes. I was wondering about the power supply. Battery seems fine. It runs a
long time on a charge.

Char Jackson wrote:

What happened when you booted a live Linux CD/DVD/USB? Did all of the
hardware work?

Or even boot into the BIOS, leave it for an while, does the KB still
function, sometimes the mouse will too for modern UEFI type "BIOS"

On 2019-08-28 10:20 p.m., RHB wrote:

When it comes to Human Interface Devices, they have all
sorts of crazy ways of connecting them. While you would
expect USB to be used, they could be serial or PS/2,
and in some cases, the hardware lacks PNP (plug and play)
information. This also makes it difficult to (safely)
make drivers for the things, because without PNP, the
driver doesn't know if this is the right computer
to be using the driver or not. Let's just hope this
machine doesn't have a "hodge-podge" of bus connections
for this stuff.

Paul


Do you think this is a hardware problem? Why does it more or less work when
first turned on after a rest period, then goes nuts?

If a clean install didn't work in Windows and the issue appears in
Linux, chances are that hardware is indeed at fault. You said that this
was a Dell machine?