Bootable USB HDD

I am posting my experience in making an external USB HDD bootable as an aide
to others who may be having the same problem. My OS is WINXP Pro formatted
NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.

I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which is housed an IBM DJSA 230
2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a year to store backups
and the like. I used the system on both my desktop (USB 2.0) and laptop
(firewire).

I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a motherboard that allows booting
from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external enclosure bootable and ran
into complications.

Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS onto the external HDD
(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed the boot order in the
desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process hung, although the
external drive was recognised. I then booted to DOS via a floppy and
repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single primary partition. fdisk
identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have two SATA drives on my
desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded the OS (Sys c from my
bootable floppy. So far so good.

I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk and found that I couldn't
as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made active and the external
drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP to make the drive active
there (Control Panel-Admin Tools-Computer Management). I changed the boot
order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot. The system again hung
during the bootup as before.

For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be a MBR problem so I tried
to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately before I tried that I
read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on the first drive in the
system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in my case drive 3) I either
had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which would make the external
drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk. By searching Google I
found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost, will allow rewriting mbr
on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be available as freeware but
not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an old copy of the gdisk
freeware version from a site by searching using Google. I recreated mbr
(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the external drive without
problems.

I believe my experience only relates to previously used HDD. If a new drive
is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created however when an old drive is
repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why the mbr was the source
of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that level of knowledge, but
my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to make a previously used
HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating the drive mbr will be
required.

Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look up as many references as I
could find on what was entailed to make an external usb drive bootable and
all my references suggested using fdisk, which for me gave problems, and
none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be required.

Hope this may be of assistance to others.

Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports External USB Storage
Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset, you can boot from
external USB Storage devices without any extra effort. Most of this is
trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if your motherboard
doesn't support this.

----
Nathan McNulty


Edward W. Thompson wrote:
I am posting my experience in making an external USB HDD bootable as an aide
to others who may be having the same problem. My OS is WINXP Pro formatted
NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.

I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which is housed an IBM DJSA 230
2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a year to store backups
and the like. I used the system on both my desktop (USB 2.0) and laptop
(firewire).

I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a motherboard that allows booting
from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external enclosure bootable and ran
into complications.

Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS onto the external HDD
(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed the boot order in the
desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process hung, although the
external drive was recognised. I then booted to DOS via a floppy and
repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single primary partition. fdisk
identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have two SATA drives on my
desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded the OS (Sys c from my
bootable floppy. So far so good.

I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk and found that I couldn't
as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made active and the external
drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP to make the drive active
there (Control Panel-Admin Tools-Computer Management). I changed the boot
order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot. The system again hung
during the bootup as before.

For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be a MBR problem so I tried
to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately before I tried that I
read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on the first drive in the
system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in my case drive 3) I either
had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which would make the external
drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk. By searching Google I
found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost, will allow rewriting mbr
on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be available as freeware but
not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an old copy of the gdisk
freeware version from a site by searching using Google. I recreated mbr
(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the external drive without
problems.

I believe my experience only relates to previously used HDD. If a new drive
is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created however when an old drive is
repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why the mbr was the source
of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that level of knowledge, but
my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to make a previously used
HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating the drive mbr will be
required.

Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look up as many references as I
could find on what was entailed to make an external usb drive bootable and
all my references suggested using fdisk, which for me gave problems, and
none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be required.

Hope this may be of assistance to others.

Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear that my new
motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.

Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others, who like me, may not
know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need, at least in my case,
to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously partitioned.

While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work around' if the BIOS
does not support booting from the HDD.

My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.

Don't you take the time to read what is written, however imperfectly,
before you jump in?


"Nathan McNulty" wrote in message
...
Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports External USB Storage
Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset, you can boot from
external USB Storage devices without any extra effort. Most of this is
trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if your motherboard
doesn't support this.

----
Nathan McNulty


Edward W. Thompson wrote:
I am posting my experience in making an external USB HDD bootable as an
aide
to others who may be having the same problem. My OS is WINXP Pro
formatted
NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.

I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which is housed an IBM DJSA
230
2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a year to store
backups
and the like. I used the system on both my desktop (USB 2.0) and laptop
(firewire).

I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a motherboard that allows
booting
from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external enclosure bootable and
ran
into complications.

Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS onto the external
HDD
(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed the boot order in the
desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process hung, although the
external drive was recognised. I then booted to DOS via a floppy and
repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single primary partition.
fdisk
identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have two SATA drives on my
desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded the OS (Sys c from my
bootable floppy. So far so good.

I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk and found that I
couldn't
as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made active and the
external
drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP to make the drive
active
there (Control Panel-Admin Tools-Computer Management). I changed the
boot
order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot. The system again hung
during the bootup as before.

For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be a MBR problem so I
tried
to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately before I tried that I
read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on the first drive in the
system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in my case drive 3) I
either
had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which would make the
external
drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk. By searching Google I
found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost, will allow rewriting
mbr
on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be available as freeware
but
not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an old copy of the
gdisk
freeware version from a site by searching using Google. I recreated mbr
(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the external drive without
problems.

I believe my experience only relates to previously used HDD. If a new
drive
is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created however when an old drive
is
repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why the mbr was the
source
of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that level of knowledge,
but
my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to make a previously
used
HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating the drive mbr will
be
required.

Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look up as many references
as I
could find on what was entailed to make an external usb drive bootable
and
all my references suggested using fdisk, which for me gave problems, and
none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be required.

Hope this may be of assistance to others.

"Edward W. Thompson" wrote in message
...
Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear that my new
motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.

Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others, who like me, may
not
know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need, at least in my
case,
to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously partitioned.

While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work around' if the
BIOS
does not support booting from the HDD.

My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.

Don't you take the time to read what is written, however imperfectly,
before you jump in?


"Nathan McNulty" wrote in message
...
Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports External USB Storage
Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset, you can boot from
external USB Storage devices without any extra effort. Most of this is
trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if your motherboard
doesn't support this.

----
Nathan McNulty


Edward W. Thompson wrote:
I am posting my experience in making an external USB HDD bootable as
an
aide
to others who may be having the same problem. My OS is WINXP Pro
formatted
NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.

I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which is housed an IBM
DJSA
230
2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a year to store
backups
and the like. I used the system on both my desktop (USB 2.0) and
laptop
(firewire).

I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a motherboard that allows
booting
from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external enclosure bootable
and
ran
into complications.

Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS onto the external
HDD
(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed the boot order in the
desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process hung, although the
external drive was recognised. I then booted to DOS via a floppy and
repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single primary partition.
fdisk
identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have two SATA drives on my
desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded the OS (Sys c from
my
bootable floppy. So far so good.

I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk and found that I
couldn't
as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made active and the
external
drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP to make the drive
active
there (Control Panel-Admin Tools-Computer Management). I changed
the
boot
order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot. The system again
hung
during the bootup as before.

For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be a MBR problem so I
tried
to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately before I tried that
I
read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on the first drive in
the
system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in my case drive 3) I
either
had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which would make the
external
drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk. By searching Google
I
found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost, will allow rewriting
mbr
on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be available as freeware
but
not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an old copy of the
gdisk
freeware version from a site by searching using Google. I recreated
mbr
(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the external drive
without
problems.

I believe my experience only relates to previously used HDD. If a new
drive
is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created however when an old
drive
is
repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why the mbr was the
source
of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that level of knowledge,
but
my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to make a previously
used
HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating the drive mbr will
be
required.

Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look up as many
references
as I
could find on what was entailed to make an external usb drive bootable
and
all my references suggested using fdisk, which for me gave problems,
and
none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be required.

Hope this may be of assistance to others.

Ed:
Based on my own experience, to the best of my knowledge you cannot boot from
a USB external hard drive. Hardly a week passes where I don't come across
postings in various newsgroups as well as information on various web sites
that state that "you can boot from a USB external hard drive as long as your
motherboard's BIOS supports this capability", or words to that effect. I've
worked with a variety of modern motherboards, many of which contain a BIOS
element indicating a USB boot capability, but I've yet to boot to a USB
external hard drive containing a cloned XP operating system. And I have yet
to come across a *documented* source indicating this capability is actually
achievable.

The following is from Western FAQs:
Question: Can I boot my computer using an external (FireWire, USB, Combo)
hard drive?

Answer: Western Digital does not provide technical support for booting your
computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers who design PC
system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it is not currently
possible to boot your computer with an external hard drive.


I also queried Symantec Technical Support on this issue and here's their
response:
"Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical Support.


You wanted to know if you could boot from a external USB drive that you have
cloned to using Norton Ghost.



The issue at hand would be whether the drive would be recognized in the boot
sequence of your system. To the best of my knowledge, there is no
motherboard that supports booting from external devices currently. This
really has nothing to do with Norton Ghost."



In addition, I raised the question with two local computer technicians in
our area; both of whom stated that USB external drives are not bootable.



Using Symantec's Ghost 2003, I routinely clone my internal hard drives to
USB external hard drives. I can, when the need arises, clone the external
drive back to the fixed internal one and under those circumstances the
internal drive will be bootable.



If anyone has personally booted from a USB external hard drive or witnessed
such, I would certainly be grateful to hear about it.



Art

-----Original Message-----
"Edward W. Thompson" wrote in
message
...
Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear
that my new
motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.

Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others,
who like me, may
not
know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need,
at least in my
case,
to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously
partitioned.

While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work
around' if the
BIOS
does not support booting from the HDD.

My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.

Don't you take the time to read what is written,
however imperfectly,
before you jump in?


"Nathan McNulty" wrote in message
...
Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports
External USB Storage
Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset,
you can boot from
external USB Storage devices without any extra
effort. Most of this is
trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if
your motherboard
doesn't support this.

----
Nathan McNulty


Edward W. Thompson wrote:
I am posting my experience in making an external
USB HDD bootable as
an
aide
to others who may be having the same problem. My OS
is WINXP Pro
formatted
NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.

I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which
is housed an IBM
DJSA
230
2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a
year to store
backups
and the like. I used the system on both my desktop
(USB 2.0) and
laptop
(firewire).

I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a
motherboard that allows
booting
from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external
enclosure bootable
and
ran
into complications.

Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS
onto the external
HDD
(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed
the boot order in the
desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process
hung, although the
external drive was recognised. I then booted to
DOS via a floppy and
repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single
primary partition.
fdisk
identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have
two SATA drives on my
desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded
the OS (Sys c from
my
bootable floppy. So far so good.

I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk
and found that I
couldn't
as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made
active and the
external
drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP
to make the drive
active
there (Control Panel-Admin Tools-Computer
Management). I changed
the
boot
order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot.
The system again
hung
during the bootup as before.

For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be
a MBR problem so I
tried
to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately
before I tried that
I
read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on
the first drive in
the
system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in
my case drive 3) I
either
had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which
would make the
external
drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk.
By searching Google
I
found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost,
will allow rewriting
mbr
on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be
available as freeware
but
not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an
old copy of the
gdisk
freeware version from a site by searching using
Google. I recreated
mbr
(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the
external drive
without
problems.

I believe my experience only relates to previously
used HDD. If a new
drive
is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created
however when an old
drive
is
repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why
the mbr was the
source
of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that
level of knowledge,
but
my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to
make a previously
used
HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating
the drive mbr will
be
required.

Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look
up as many
references
as I
could find on what was entailed to make an external
usb drive bootable
and
all my references suggested using fdisk, which for
me gave problems,
and
none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be
required.

Hope this may be of assistance to others.

Ed:
Based on my own experience, to the best of my knowledge
you cannot boot from
a USB external hard drive. Hardly a week passes where I
don't come across
postings in various newsgroups as well as information on
various web sites
that state that "you can boot from a USB external hard
drive as long as your
motherboard's BIOS supports this capability", or words to
that effect. I've
worked with a variety of modern motherboards, many of
which contain a BIOS
element indicating a USB boot capability, but I've yet to
boot to a USB
external hard drive containing a cloned XP operating
system. And I have yet
to come across a *documented* source indicating this
capability is actually
achievable.

The following is from Western FAQs:
Question: Can I boot my computer using an external
(FireWire, USB, Combo)
hard drive?

Answer: Western Digital does not provide technical
support for booting your
computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers
who design PC
system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it
is not currently
possible to boot your computer with an external hard
drive.


I also queried Symantec Technical Support on this issue
and here's their
response:
"Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical
Support.


You wanted to know if you could boot from a external USB
drive that you have
cloned to using Norton Ghost.



The issue at hand would be whether the drive would be
recognized in the boot
sequence of your system. To the best of my knowledge,
there is no
motherboard that supports booting from external devices
currently. This
really has nothing to do with Norton Ghost."



In addition, I raised the question with two local
computer technicians in
our area; both of whom stated that USB external drives
are not bootable.



Using Symantec's Ghost 2003, I routinely clone my
internal hard drives to
USB external hard drives. I can, when the need arises,
clone the external
drive back to the fixed internal one and under those
circumstances the
internal drive will be bootable.



If anyone has personally booted from a USB external hard
drive or witnessed
such, I would certainly be grateful to hear about it.



Art


The OP stated quite succinctly, "The machine now boots from
the external drive without problems." Do you think he's
lying?

LOL, I never attacked the OP, nor did I mean to offend anyone. I was
just adding a little side note. Yes, booting off USB devices is simple
if your BIOS supports it. I don't even need a floppy drive since my
computer can boot off my USB Flash Drive. You simply have to have a
BIOS that supports this and set it up correctly. And just to note,
there are almost always workarounds. If you needed to boot off a USB
Harddrive and your BIOS does not support it, you use a floppy to load
the proper drivers and boot off that harddrive (which could all be
automated).

Again, to the OP, it was not my intention to offend you, but to expound
a little bit and offer examples.

----
Nathan McNulty


Wislu Plethora wrote:
-----Original Message-----
"Edward W. Thompson" wrote in

message

...

Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear

that my new

motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.

Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others,

who like me, may

not

know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need,

at least in my

case,

to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously

partitioned.

While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work

around' if the

BIOS

does not support booting from the HDD.

My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.

Don't you take the time to read what is written,

however imperfectly,

before you jump in?


"Nathan McNulty" wrote in message
...

Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports

External USB Storage

Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset,

you can boot from

external USB Storage devices without any extra

effort. Most of this is

trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if

your motherboard

doesn't support this.

----
Nathan McNulty


Edward W. Thompson wrote:

I am posting my experience in making an external

USB HDD bootable as

an

aide

to others who may be having the same problem. My OS

is WINXP Pro

formatted

NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.

I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which

is housed an IBM

DJSA

230

2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a

year to store

backups

and the like. I used the system on both my desktop

(USB 2.0) and

laptop

(firewire).

I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a

motherboard that allows

booting

from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external

enclosure bootable

and

ran

into complications.

Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS

onto the external

HDD

(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed

the boot order in the

desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process

hung, although the

external drive was recognised. I then booted to

DOS via a floppy and

repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single

primary partition.

fdisk

identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have

two SATA drives on my

desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded

the OS (Sys c from

my

bootable floppy. So far so good.

I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk

and found that I

couldn't

as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made

active and the

external

drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP

to make the drive

active

there (Control Panel-Admin Tools-Computer

Management). I changed

the

boot

order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot.

The system again

hung

during the bootup as before.

For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be

a MBR problem so I

tried

to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately

before I tried that

I

read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on

the first drive in

the

system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in

my case drive 3) I

either

had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which

would make the

external

drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk.

By searching Google

I

found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost,

will allow rewriting

mbr

on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be

available as freeware

but

not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an

old copy of the

gdisk

freeware version from a site by searching using

Google. I recreated

mbr

(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the

external drive

without

problems.

I believe my experience only relates to previously

used HDD. If a new

drive

is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created

however when an old

drive

is

repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why

the mbr was the

source

of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that

level of knowledge,

but

my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to

make a previously

used

HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating

the drive mbr will

be

required.

Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look

up as many

references

as I

could find on what was entailed to make an external

usb drive bootable

and

all my references suggested using fdisk, which for

me gave problems,

and

none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be

required.

Hope this may be of assistance to others.

Ed:
Based on my own experience, to the best of my knowledge

you cannot boot from

a USB external hard drive. Hardly a week passes where I

don't come across

postings in various newsgroups as well as information on

various web sites

that state that "you can boot from a USB external hard

drive as long as your

motherboard's BIOS supports this capability", or words to

that effect. I've

worked with a variety of modern motherboards, many of

which contain a BIOS

element indicating a USB boot capability, but I've yet to

boot to a USB

external hard drive containing a cloned XP operating

system. And I have yet

to come across a *documented* source indicating this

capability is actually

achievable.

The following is from Western FAQs:
Question: Can I boot my computer using an external

(FireWire, USB, Combo)

hard drive?

Answer: Western Digital does not provide technical

support for booting your

computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers

who design PC

system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it

is not currently

possible to boot your computer with an external hard

drive.


I also queried Symantec Technical Support on this issue

and here's their

response:
"Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical

Support.


You wanted to know if you could boot from a external USB

drive that you have

cloned to using Norton Ghost.



The issue at hand would be whether the drive would be

recognized in the boot

sequence of your system. To the best of my knowledge,

there is no

motherboard that supports booting from external devices

currently. This

really has nothing to do with Norton Ghost."



In addition, I raised the question with two local

computer technicians in

our area; both of whom stated that USB external drives

are not bootable.



Using Symantec's Ghost 2003, I routinely clone my

internal hard drives to

USB external hard drives. I can, when the need arises,

clone the external

drive back to the fixed internal one and under those

circumstances the

internal drive will be bootable.



If anyone has personally booted from a USB external hard

drive or witnessed

such, I would certainly be grateful to hear about it.



Art



The OP stated quite succinctly, "The machine now boots from
the external drive without problems." Do you think he's
lying?

I was suggesting it possible to boot off a floppy that loads the drivers
for the external drive and then loads the OS off that external hard
drive. There would be no way to directly boot off an external harddrive
if the BIOS does not support it. I have not even tested loading the
external drive's drivers and booting off it by booting off a floppy at
startup. I have a feeling that I was just too tired and unclear in my
posts.

----
Nathan McNulty

Edward W. Thompson wrote:
Please reread your original post as a response to mkine. I think you may
then understand why I and another thought you were accusing me of lying (in
the other respondents words).

As far as I am concerned this matter is closed.

It is to no ones advantage to prolong this and I accept your assurance you
did not intend to offend.

Moving to your more recent posting that suggested, at least this is how read
it, that notwithstanding the lack of a BIOS that allows direct booting from
a USB HDD there is a work around so you can boot directly from a USB HDD;
would you kindly explain further how this is done? As far as I know you
cannot load drivers before the machine boots, so how does the machine
recognise a USB drive during the boot process if there are no drivers?
Further, how do you select, in the BIOS, to boot from the USB Drive if the
BIOS does not allow this?


"Nathan McNulty" wrote in message
...

I would like to hear you explain how I "implied you made it all up." I
did nothing but confirm exactly what you said. I only added that a BIOS
with the ability to boot from USB is required. I have tried to offer a
couple of examples that I use that can boot from USB (both chipsets and
my USB Flash Drive works).

Also, notice I never said anything about fdisk. The reason is because I
don't ever use fdisk as I feel it is outdated. I think it was great you
included that part and I never intended to attack that.

I can see you are simply going to see me as flaming you no matter what I
say, so just know that I never said anything that was meant to offend
you, but merely offer more information (as well as confirmation).

----
Nathan McNulty


Edward W. Thompson wrote:

You've certainly confused me now. What do you mean re your work around?
Load USB drivers from a floppy to a Hard drive, then boot the system

from an

external USB Drive, unless I am missing something pretty fundemental

here I

don't think so. The machine will not recognise the USB drivers you load
until the machine is booted up using the OS on the hard drive . This is

not

the same as booting directly from a USB HDD when the machine reads the

OS

from the USB HDD. Surely one of the most significant reasons to boot

from a

USB HDD is to give an alternative means to start a machine in the event

of a

failure of the fixed HDD system.

With regards to the rest of your post, I think I am justified to say I

was

offended. I posted in good faith to give information to those who may

be

trying to boot from an external USB drive. I had some problems that I
worked through and thought my experience may save others the same

trouble I

had. Your post did nothing but implied I have mad it all up and that

you

cannot boot directly from and external USB HDD. As far as I know, from

my

searches of Google, there is not similar info available re problems of

using

fdisk and recreating the mbr.

I really wonder what you do when you really set out to offend :-).



"Nathan McNulty" wrote in message
...


LOL, I never attacked the OP, nor did I mean to offend anyone. I was
just adding a little side note. Yes, booting off USB devices is simple
if your BIOS supports it. I don't even need a floppy drive since my
computer can boot off my USB Flash Drive. You simply have to have a
BIOS that supports this and set it up correctly. And just to note,
there are almost always workarounds. If you needed to boot off a USB
Harddrive and your BIOS does not support it, you use a floppy to load
the proper drivers and boot off that harddrive (which could all be
automated).

Again, to the OP, it was not my intention to offend you, but to expound
a little bit and offer examples.

----
Nathan McNulty


Wislu Plethora wrote:


-----Original Message-----
"Edward W. Thompson" wrote in

message



.. .



Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear

that my new



motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.

Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others,

who like me, may



not



know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need,

at least in my



case,



to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously

partitioned.



While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work

around' if the



BIOS



does not support booting from the HDD.

My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.

Don't you take the time to read what is written,

however imperfectly,



before you jump in?


"Nathan McNulty" wrote in message
. ..



Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports

External USB Storage



Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset,

you can boot from



external USB Storage devices without any extra

effort. Most of this is



trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if

your motherboard



doesn't support this.

----
Nathan McNulty


Edward W. Thompson wrote:



I am posting my experience in making an external

USB HDD bootable as



an



aide



to others who may be having the same problem. My OS

is WINXP Pro



formatted



NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.

I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which

is housed an IBM



DJSA



230



2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a

year to store



backups



and the like. I used the system on both my desktop

(USB 2.0) and



laptop



(firewire).

I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a

motherboard that allows



booting



from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external

enclosure bootable



and



ran



into complications.

Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS

onto the external



HDD



(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed

the boot order in the



desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process

hung, although the



external drive was recognised. I then booted to

DOS via a floppy and



repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single

primary partition.



fdisk



identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have

two SATA drives on my



desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded

the OS (Sys c from



my



bootable floppy. So far so good.

I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk

and found that I



couldn't



as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made

active and the



external



drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP

to make the drive



active



there (Control Panel-Admin Tools-Computer

Management). I changed



the



boot



order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot.

The system again



hung



during the bootup as before.

For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be

a MBR problem so I



tried



to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately

before I tried that



I



read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on

the first drive in



the



system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in

my case drive 3) I



either



had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which

would make the



external



drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk.

By searching Google



I



found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost,

will allow rewriting



mbr



on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be

available as freeware



but



not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an

old copy of the



gdisk



freeware version from a site by searching using

Google. I recreated



mbr



(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the

external drive



without



problems.

I believe my experience only relates to previously

used HDD. If a new



drive



is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created

however when an old



drive



is



repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why

the mbr was the



source



of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that

level of knowledge,



but



my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to

make a previously



used



HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating

the drive mbr will



be



required.

Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look

up as many



references



as I



could find on what was entailed to make an external

usb drive bootable



and



all my references suggested using fdisk, which for

me gave problems,



and



none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be

required.



Hope this may be of assistance to others.

Ed:
Based on my own experience, to the best of my knowledge

you cannot boot from



a USB external hard drive. Hardly a week passes where I

don't come across



postings in various newsgroups as well as information on

various web sites



that state that "you can boot from a USB external hard

drive as long as your



motherboard's BIOS supports this capability", or words to

that effect. I've



worked with a variety of modern motherboards, many of

which contain a BIOS



element indicating a USB boot capability, but I've yet to

boot to a USB



external hard drive containing a cloned XP operating

system. And I have yet



to come across a *documented* source indicating this

capability is actually



achievable.

The following is from Western FAQs:
Question: Can I boot my computer using an external

(FireWire, USB, Combo)



hard drive?

Answer: Western Digital does not provide technical

support for booting your



computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers

who design PC



system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it

is not currently



possible to boot your computer with an external hard

drive.



I also queried Symantec Technical Support on this issue

and here's their



response:
"Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical

Support.



You wanted to know if you could boot from a external USB

drive that you have



cloned to using Norton Ghost.



The issue at hand would be whether the drive would be

recognized in the boot



sequence of your system. To the best of my knowledge,

there is no



motherboard that supports booting from external devices

currently. This



really has nothing to do with Norton Ghost."



In addition, I raised the question with two local

computer technicians in



our area; both of whom stated that USB external drives

are not bootable.



Using Symantec's Ghost 2003, I routinely clone my

internal hard drives to



USB external hard drives. I can, when the need arises,

clone the external



drive back to the fixed internal one and under those

circumstances the



internal drive will be bootable.



If anyone has personally booted from a USB external hard

drive or witnessed



such, I would certainly be grateful to hear about it.



Art



The OP stated quite succinctly, "The machine now boots from
the external drive without problems." Do you think he's
lying?

OK we can agree upon that, but this is a long way from booting directly from
a USB HDD.


"Nathan McNulty" wrote in message
...
I was suggesting it possible to boot off a floppy that loads the drivers
for the external drive and then loads the OS off that external hard
drive. There would be no way to directly boot off an external harddrive
if the BIOS does not support it. I have not even tested loading the
external drive's drivers and booting off it by booting off a floppy at
startup. I have a feeling that I was just too tired and unclear in my
posts.

----
Nathan McNulty

Edward W. Thompson wrote:
Please reread your original post as a response to mkine. I think you
may
then understand why I and another thought you were accusing me of lying
(in
the other respondents words).

As far as I am concerned this matter is closed.

It is to no ones advantage to prolong this and I accept your assurance
you
did not intend to offend.

Moving to your more recent posting that suggested, at least this is how
read
it, that notwithstanding the lack of a BIOS that allows direct booting
from
a USB HDD there is a work around so you can boot directly from a USB
HDD;
would you kindly explain further how this is done? As far as I know you
cannot load drivers before the machine boots, so how does the machine
recognise a USB drive during the boot process if there are no drivers?
Further, how do you select, in the BIOS, to boot from the USB Drive if
the
BIOS does not allow this?


"Nathan McNulty" wrote in message
...

I would like to hear you explain how I "implied you made it all up." I
did nothing but confirm exactly what you said. I only added that a BIOS
with the ability to boot from USB is required. I have tried to offer a
couple of examples that I use that can boot from USB (both chipsets and
my USB Flash Drive works).

Also, notice I never said anything about fdisk. The reason is because I
don't ever use fdisk as I feel it is outdated. I think it was great you
included that part and I never intended to attack that.

I can see you are simply going to see me as flaming you no matter what I
say, so just know that I never said anything that was meant to offend
you, but merely offer more information (as well as confirmation).

----
Nathan McNulty


Edward W. Thompson wrote:

You've certainly confused me now. What do you mean re your work
around?
Load USB drivers from a floppy to a Hard drive, then boot the system

from an

external USB Drive, unless I am missing something pretty fundemental

here I

don't think so. The machine will not recognise the USB drivers you
load
until the machine is booted up using the OS on the hard drive . This
is

not

the same as booting directly from a USB HDD when the machine reads the

OS

from the USB HDD. Surely one of the most significant reasons to boot

from a

USB HDD is to give an alternative means to start a machine in the event

of a

failure of the fixed HDD system.

With regards to the rest of your post, I think I am justified to say I

was

offended. I posted in good faith to give information to those who may

be

trying to boot from an external USB drive. I had some problems that I
worked through and thought my experience may save others the same

trouble I

had. Your post did nothing but implied I have mad it all up and that

you

cannot boot directly from and external USB HDD. As far as I know, from

my

searches of Google, there is not similar info available re problems of

using

fdisk and recreating the mbr.

I really wonder what you do when you really set out to offend :-).



"Nathan McNulty" wrote in message
...


LOL, I never attacked the OP, nor did I mean to offend anyone. I was
just adding a little side note. Yes, booting off USB devices is
simple
if your BIOS supports it. I don't even need a floppy drive since my
computer can boot off my USB Flash Drive. You simply have to have a
BIOS that supports this and set it up correctly. And just to note,
there are almost always workarounds. If you needed to boot off a USB
Harddrive and your BIOS does not support it, you use a floppy to load
the proper drivers and boot off that harddrive (which could all be
automated).

Again, to the OP, it was not my intention to offend you, but to
expound
a little bit and offer examples.

----
Nathan McNulty


Wislu Plethora wrote:


-----Original Message-----
"Edward W. Thompson" wrote in

message



.. .



Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear

that my new



motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.

Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others,

who like me, may



not



know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need,

at least in my



case,



to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously

partitioned.



While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work

around' if the



BIOS



does not support booting from the HDD.

My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.

Don't you take the time to read what is written,

however imperfectly,



before you jump in?


"Nathan McNulty" wrote in message
. ..



Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports

External USB Storage



Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset,

you can boot from



external USB Storage devices without any extra

effort. Most of this is



trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if

your motherboard



doesn't support this.

----
Nathan McNulty


Edward W. Thompson wrote:



I am posting my experience in making an external

USB HDD bootable as



an



aide



to others who may be having the same problem. My OS

is WINXP Pro



formatted



NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.

I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which

is housed an IBM



DJSA



230



2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a

year to store



backups



and the like. I used the system on both my desktop

(USB 2.0) and



laptop



(firewire).

I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a

motherboard that allows



booting



from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external

enclosure bootable



and



ran



into complications.

Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS

onto the external



HDD



(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed

the boot order in the



desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process

hung, although the



external drive was recognised. I then booted to

DOS via a floppy and



repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single

primary partition.



fdisk



identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have

two SATA drives on my



desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded

the OS (Sys c from



my



bootable floppy. So far so good.

I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk

and found that I



couldn't



as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made

active and the



external



drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP

to make the drive



active



there (Control Panel-Admin Tools-Computer

Management). I changed



the



boot



order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot.

The system again



hung



during the bootup as before.

For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be

a MBR problem so I



tried



to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately

before I tried that



I



read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on

the first drive in



the



system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in

my case drive 3) I



either



had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which

would make the



external



drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk.

By searching Google



I



found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost,

will allow rewriting



mbr



on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be

available as freeware



but



not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an

old copy of the



gdisk



freeware version from a site by searching using

Google. I recreated



mbr



(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the

external drive



without



problems.

I believe my experience only relates to previously

used HDD. If a new



drive



is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created

however when an old



drive



is



repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why

the mbr was the



source



of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that

level of knowledge,



but



my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to

make a previously



used



HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating

the drive mbr will



be



required.

Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look

up as many



references



as I



could find on what was entailed to make an external

usb drive bootable



and



all my references suggested using fdisk, which for

me gave problems,



and



none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be

required.



Hope this may be of assistance to others.

Ed:
Based on my own experience, to the best of my knowledge

you cannot boot from



a USB external hard drive. Hardly a week passes where I

don't come across



postings in various newsgroups as well as information on

various web sites



that state that "you can boot from a USB external hard

drive as long as your



motherboard's BIOS supports this capability", or words to

that effect. I've



worked with a variety of modern motherboards, many of

which contain a BIOS



element indicating a USB boot capability, but I've yet to

boot to a USB



external hard drive containing a cloned XP operating

system. And I have yet



to come across a *documented* source indicating this

capability is actually



achievable.

The following is from Western FAQs:
Question: Can I boot my computer using an external

(FireWire, USB, Combo)



hard drive?

Answer: Western Digital does not provide technical

support for booting your



computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers

who design PC



system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it

is not currently



possible to boot your computer with an external hard

drive.



I also queried Symantec Technical Support on this issue

and here's their



response:
"Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical

Support.



You wanted to know if you could boot from a external USB

drive that you have



cloned to using Norton Ghost.



The issue at hand would be whether the drive would be

recognized in the boot



sequence of your system. To the best of my knowledge,

there is no



motherboard that supports booting from external devices

currently. This



really has nothing to do with Norton Ghost."



In addition, I raised the question with two local

computer technicians in



our area; both of whom stated that USB external drives

are not bootable.



Using Symantec's Ghost 2003, I routinely clone my

internal hard drives to



USB external hard drives. I can, when the need arises,

clone the external



drive back to the fixed internal one and under those

circumstances the



internal drive will be bootable.



If anyone has personally booted from a USB external hard

drive or witnessed



such, I would certainly be grateful to hear about it.



Art



The OP stated quite succinctly, "The machine now boots from
the external drive without problems." Do you think he's
lying?