Dell 8200 HD problems:

Mark Twain wrote:
No, at this point I'm not going to 'test' to
see whether the WD is still bootable for the 8500,
that is not it's purpose and not worth the risk.

That's what the 2TB Seagate is for and we already
did this test with both HD's. I shouldn't have
to re-do tests we already did.

The primary purpose for the WD is external HD
drive for the 8500.

About the 780; that's why I inquired about buying
a replacement HD and tray. So I could create a bootable
replacement HD for it.

The 1TB Seagte remains the external(non bootable) HD
for the 780.

So until I get a new HD with tray (preferably mounted)
for the 780 it doesn't have a replacement HD.

I like the 2TB Seagate which you pointed me to very much
but don't they come encased in the tray? If I had to
buy the try itself, I really don't know which to select
because they made others very similar.

If you can give me step by step instructions I can follow,
so we can do whatever needs to be done via Windows update
and Macrium. Also as I showed you, Windows Update will
continue via schedule unless I turn it off which means I'm
relying solely on Macrium for my updates. You see what I mean
about not knowing what to do?


I still am unsure of the procedures... when you say
do this or that can you please explain how?

I want to know what I am doing is correct and at present
I don't, I'm guessing.

Robert

This one is a bare drive mechanism. It doesn't even
come with screws. Some of your computers will have a screwless
adapter for fitting this drive inside the computer. Typically
you get a drive in an antistatic bag. The antistatic bag should
be sealed, if the product has had a single owner (i.e. you).

ST2000DM001 2TB $72
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148834

You put it inside a USB enclosure. I can't find *any*
interior pictures for this. This has a fan. Many companies
make these, but some of them use a cheaper power adapter
on theirs. StarTech doesn't actually make the housing - they
buy lots of them just like Rosewill does, from the OEM source.

StarTech SAT3510BU3 $36
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817707227

*******

A sample Macrium 6 backup procedure is in this last
filmstrips I was able to make. I can't post these any more.
No server will accept them (too big). The "+" on the mouse
cursor allows you to magnify the filmstrip when
you left-click once. Then it should be easy to read.
The filmstrip is lightly commented.

This procedure is for backing up the internal C: drive
and System Reserved, to an external backup drive.

http://s22.postimg.org/gxz3fdbch/Macrium6_Backup.gif

I set the compression on mine to "None", but people
have their own ideas as to what the best setting is.
Unfortunately, the compressor used by Macrium, I don't
think it is multithreaded, and even though it is a
lightweight LZO or LZ4 compressor, it still can slow
the backup down a tiny bit. The default Macrium uses
is "Medium" and if you're going to walk away from the
computer while it runs anyway, it probably doesn't
matter what you select here. I didn't place any
comments in the filmstrip one way or another as to what
the best setting would be.

In the Macrium preferences, there is a tick box to
enable the system file cache while the backup runs.
I've had one Macrium install, where that was turned
off, and the backup ran at half speed, I didn't
put the Preferences in my filmstrip either, because
at the time I made the filmstrip, I didn't even
know that tab and settings were there! :-) I was
puzzled one day, why it was slow, and discovered
the stupid choice for that tick box. Of course
the system file cache should be turned on. It
makes the writes go out to the drive in larger
chunks. Fewer seeks on the disk heads...

When the backup is finished, don't forget to
use Safely Remove (Task Bar, on the right),
and wait until confirmation comes back that
it is actually safe to remove. Unplug the USB
cable and switch off at the back. If the OS
actually worked properly, the drive light
would go off on a Safely Remove, but this
seems to vary with OS and what day of the
week it is. I know my copy of WinXP does
this properly. It's one of the few OSes
I can count on.

Paul

Yeah I saw the phone number but I'm not paying
long distance rates for a $3.00 item. You would
think Newegg would have them but I couldn't find
any?

Great instructions!@! I would not of known most
of it. As you can see it was successful and I'm
logged into the Administrators Account but for
some reason it won't let me open the folders
where I put the Mrimg file.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2dtzlnr.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/295wytd.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/2z3w50o.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/20qgdx1.jpg

So when the new HD arrives I clone it to make
it bootable then we switch HD's so that the
2TB will boot up for the first time, correct?

But I need the trays ,...

also, do you want me to turn off the Windows
Update in the Action Center otherwise its going
to ask for another update,..

Thoughts Suggestions?
Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
Yeah I saw the phone number but I'm not paying
long distance rates for a $3.00 item. You would
think Newegg would have them but I couldn't find
any?

Great instructions!@! I would not of known most
of it. As you can see it was successful and I'm
logged into the Administrators Account but for
some reason it won't let me open the folders
where I put the Mrimg file.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2dtzlnr.jpg Backup completed 09:48

http://i63.tinypic.com/295wytd.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/2z3w50o.jpg "You don't currently..."

http://i66.tinypic.com/20qgdx1.jpg

The green bar in the last picture, shows
the results of it recursively descending
the file tree under Rpbert and giving
you access. Each time you install an OS,
the SID generated for the account is
different on each installed OS. That button
allows adding another owner, so two OSes
can look in a home directory. The SID consists
of three clusters of numbers, plus the number
"1000" on the end. User accounts start at 1000.
The administrator is 500. But the three other
numbers are randomly assigned on each installation,
which is why "Rpbert" on one OS disk is not the
same as "Rpbert" on another OS disk.

While the new OS may allow overriding
some permissions (say an Allow type), it
might not be willing to deal with inherited
permissions from above that point in the tree,
or maybe a Deny that has been applied above
the item in question. There are *definitely*
areas of the disk that resist casual inspection,
and do not provide a button to "break in". The
permission problem you faced in the above
sequence, is about the weakest security challenge
there is. In the sense that a button was immediately
provided to bypass the issue.

Installing TakeOwn in the right-click menu,
can also deal with problems like this. That's a
little registry merge file available on
a few different web sites. It would probably have
similar issues to the button you used above (cannot
handle every possible situation).


So when the new HD arrives I clone it to make
it bootable then we switch HD's so that the
2TB will boot up for the first time, correct?

Sounds like a plan...


But I need the trays ,...

also, do you want me to turn off the Windows
Update in the Action Center otherwise its going
to ask for another update,..

It depends on how concerned you are about
the behavior of Windows Update. My Windows Update
has been a bad boy (installed '583 GWX) so I
turned it off as a form of punishment. I'm sure
there's been a red mark in Action Center for
months because of that.

And, *you* are the boss of the machine, not
the Action Center. While the Action Center
is well meaning and all, there are situations
where the advice can comfortably be ignored.
You should weight the pros and cons of anything
the Action Center tells you.

I regularly have red items in my Action Center.
And I don't lose sleep over it either :-)

I wouldn't have to turn off Windows Update,
if I could trust Microsoft.

Paul

I ran CPUZ again for all four slots:

http://i66.tinypic.com/fk4eab.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/35aj6fl.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/29kxfrd.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/2v3mxzd.jpg

I also was able to open the folder
on the Seagate 1TB external drive
and the Mrimg

is there where I put it.

http://i65.tinypic.com/se86lg.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/2i6dxf8.jpg

It seems after making the initial
Windows OS Recovery disc and update
your OK with me turning it off and let
Macrium take over, correct?

Robert

I turned off the OS scheduled updates.
on the 780 then created a restore point.

Here's the CPUZ slots for the 8500:

http://i66.tinypic.com/2eykp3a.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/22b713.jpg

http://i67.tinypic.com/2h35umw.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/2m3s903.jpg

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
I ran CPUZ again for all four slots:

http://i66.tinypic.com/fk4eab.jpg Slot1 DDR3-1066 8-7-7-20

http://i65.tinypic.com/35aj6fl.jpg Slot2 Empty

http://i66.tinypic.com/29kxfrd.jpg Slot3 DDR3-1066 8-7-7-20

http://i66.tinypic.com/2v3mxzd.jpg Slot4 Empty

I also was able to open the folder
on the Seagate 1TB external drive
and the Mrimg

is there where I put it.

http://i65.tinypic.com/se86lg.jpg E:

http://i68.tinypic.com/2i6dxf8.jpg $HOME\780 MRimg files 15GB

It seems after making the initial
Windows OS Recovery disc and update
your OK with me turning it off and let
Macrium take over, correct?

Robert

Currently, it might be set to do WindowsImageBackup
every Sunday.

The function is about equal to Macrium, but without
the convenience of "exploring" the MRIMG file.

Both programs can be scheduled to do what you
want. I just find Macrium slightly better. I have used
the Win7 built-in backup for my laptop, and have some
old backups generated using that, sitting around.

Paul

Mark Twain wrote:
I turned off the OS scheduled updates.
on the 780 then created a restore point.

Here's the CPUZ slots for the 8500:

http://i66.tinypic.com/2eykp3a.jpg Slot1: 2GB DDR3-1600 11-11-11-28 Samsung

http://i64.tinypic.com/22b713.jpg Slot2: 4GB DDR3-1600 11-11-11-28 Hyundai

http://i67.tinypic.com/2h35umw.jpg Slot3: 2GB DDR3-1600 11-11-11-28 Samsung

http://i63.tinypic.com/2m3s903.jpg Slot4: 4GB DDR3-1600 11-11-11-28 Hyundai

Robert

Nice balanced setup, 6GB per channel, 12GB total.

Even the speeds match.

You can tell the 8500 was "filled at the factory".
That's what the brands and degree of matching suggests.

*******

The 780 has two Crucial sticks, which tells you
the previous owner of the machine did an upgrade
themselves. So the 780 probably originally shipped
with less RAM, and the business that used to lease
the machine, beefed it up.

Paul

I agree, you can never have too many,.
I like the style of yours,.. very cool.

I was looking at pictures of mine and
I'm thinking that the (4) pins turn
and twist to put the HD in.

Since I did a Mrimg backup on the 780
I decided to do one for the 8500 with
WD.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2s93dpy.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/2hd4e8i.jpg

Robert

p.s.

what I meant about my tray's is that
you push the pins outward and then turn
the black keys for each one to hold the
pin then insert the HD then release the
pins.

However, I can't figure out how to remove
the HD once inserted if that's the case.

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
p.s.

what I meant about my tray's is that
you push the pins outward and then turn
the black keys for each one to hold the
pin then insert the HD then release the
pins.

However, I can't figure out how to remove
the HD once inserted if that's the case.

Robert


The available documentation I can find, suggests
bending (deforming) the side rails releases the
drive. Which I don't believe for a minute. Just
about all examples I can find, are for inserting
the drive into the tray. And none on removal.

It's supposed to be "tool-less". So we know
the design principle, is for it to not get
stuck.

I see room to pry out on the black plastic part,
with a couple jewelers screwdrivers. But I don't
really know if that's the intended mechanism or
not.

It's best for the hard drive, if the drive does
not get shaken around or dropped, because
of a crappy tray solution. So let's hope,
that no matter how it works, it doesn't
damage the drive in the process.

Paul

I found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilaG2Lx1Oi4
(skip to 1:23)

I can't believe that is actually how this tray
is designed. That doesn't seem to be very good
handling for the HD. SO am I suppose to bend it
to fit the HD ?

Now I understand why the tray in the 780 is cracked.

Robert

It seems that is the case because the guy
fits a new HD by bending the tray. Jeez
this is a lousy design for a tray with no
consideration for the delicate HD while
your doing this.

You think I should get another type? or
is there another type I can use in the 780?

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
It seems that is the case because the guy
fits a new HD by bending the tray. Jeez
this is a lousy design for a tray with no
consideration for the delicate HD while
your doing this.

You think I should get another type? or
is there another type I can use in the 780?

Robert

Good question.

I haven't seen a working alternative, yet.

The thing is, when you slide a drive into a slot
like that, the tolerances are pretty tight. It
doesn't take much of a dimensional error from
side to side, to make a poor fit.

One rail kit here, doesn't make the drive wide enough.
I had to slide some thin washers under the two
screws on one side, to make the side-to-side
dimension a little wider. So the drive wouldn't
"fall" out of the slot.

So it would depend on what the side-to-side
dimension is in the Dell. Whether it's "industry standard",
or both the tray and the computer case were bodged
to only mate with one another. It's easy to do non-standard
things, to make it harder for customers to fit add-in
components.

I can tell you, that the slides that come with
retail (empty) computer cases, are all shapes and
sizes. And I cannot take the slides from the machine
I'm typing on, and use them in the Sonata 5.25" bays.
Similarly, the standoffs underneath the motherboard
on computer cases, are all different (I saw a picture
once, with about 20 different styles in the picture).
You cannot exchange a set of standoffs from one computer
case with another. Only if two computer cases are
the same model number, can you exchange stuff.

So it's not like there isn't a precedent for
doing stupid stuff already. Computer cases
already have issues like that.

As a starting point on your quest, you'd need
to compare the height of the "side rails" of the
Dell 780 tray, to any other retail computer
cases with slide system. And see whether the
blue tray is shorter than normal or taller
than normal. To give some idea what kind
of a chore this can be.

Unless you find a seller who specifically
says "tested in the following computers..."
it's not really a given that it will fit.
If you read the reviews for the blue tray
thing, some people (fitting the tray into
other Dell products), have to file plastic
off the tray to get it to fit. So even
Dell apparently hasn't adhered to the same
set of dimensions, always.

As far as I'm concerned, they should have
been able to settle on a width. So that
the tray is always the exact same width
when assembled. But the height of the rails,
I've seen all sorts of solutions. I've seen
plastic slides, multi-piece metal slides (makes
no sense at all). It's almost like they
make each design different, to avoid
"mold patents".

The patent system has different kinds of
protections. For "real" IP, you write a patent
explaining what you're patenting, how it
works technically and so on. But a different
kind of patent, can patent a "mold" for an
object. I couldn't believe it, when the
patent wall at work, assigned credit to
some employee who just applied for a
mold patent. It was an object, a cartoon
character, where my company had to apply
for licensing rights, to reproduce the
cartoon character. But the mold of the
cartoon character, could still be patented.
No other person could have reproduced our
mold, because the company holding the
cartoon character license, can and would
chase them through the court system.
The mold patent was completely and totally
redundant as a form of legal protection.

See what a wonderful world we live in ? Ugh.

So when you see stuff that really should
have standard dimensions, sometimes a hidden
reason for the gamesmanship, is the patent
system.

CPU design has at least 1000 patents covering it.
Imagine trying to be a free-thinker while making
the next CPU, and dodging all those patent holders.

Paul

Sounds like Disney where they sued a Grade
School once for having painted Disney characters
on the walls.

I saw all the plastic tray designs when searching,
and it doesn't make any sense. You would think they would
standardize such a thing but as you pointed out,.its
a nightmare,...

So we'll see how it goes and I'm going to be real
careful doing this.

Robert

A couple of questions if I may, while were waiting
for the HD etc.

I have updates turned off on both the 8500 and the
780 and both are Windows 7 Professional OS's but on
the 780 there's a red circle with a white X over the
Action Center icon whereas on the 8500 there's nothing.

The other question I have is that lately I've noticed
that when on Yahoo; if I click a story it seems to lag
or stop altogether where I can't even scroll down but
only on Yahoo or sometimes MSN. Are they overloading the
browser because I don't have any problems with any other
webpage?

I noticed also that if you click on anything anymore it
triggers other stories ads, and who knows what ? Now they
even put them in on the email page.

Robert

Robert