Help

I was trying to troubleshoot a problem with with my LAN. My laptop can
send and receive files from my desktop, but my desktop can not send and
receive files from the laptop. When I try it says the desktop does not
have permission to the laptop. While I checked many things to my
knowledge I changed NOTHING.

Problem: When I gave up and restarted the desktop, the system went into
a long restart. In fact it has been restarting for over and hour now.
I am afraid if I try to turn it off, it will just try to restart.

What do I do to get my desktop to go through the restart cycle and come
up so it can be used?



--
Judge your ancestors by how well they met their standards not yours.
They did not know your standards, so could not try to meet them.

On 7/3/2019 7:15 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
I was trying to troubleshoot a problem with with my LAN.Â* My laptop can
send and receive files from my desktop, but my desktop can not send and
receive files from the laptop.Â*Â* When I try it says the desktop does not
have permission to the laptop.Â* While I checked many things to my
knowledge I changed NOTHING.

Problem:Â* When I gave up and restarted the desktop, the system went into
a long restart.Â* In fact it has been restarting for over and hour now. I
am afraid if I try to turn it off, it will just try to restart.

What do I do to get my desktop to go through the restart cycle and come
up so it can be used?



Once again MS messed with my computer because it had an update waiting.
Many times it is just a fluky mouse, other times a slightly
misbehaving program. To night it made the permission in operative.

Apparently when I tried to do a restart after working with permission MS
decided the computer was going to be updated. Activating the restart
procedure activated the download, and nearly 2.5 hours later it finally
said it was installing an update. During the 2.5 hour it appeared to
be stuck in a restart loop.

Thanks Microsoft for making my life easier.





--
Judge your ancestors by how well they met their standards not yours.
They did not know your standards, so could not try to meet them.

On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 19:55:52 -0400
Keith Nuttle wrote:

On 7/3/2019 7:15 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
I was trying to troubleshoot a problem with with my LAN.Â* My laptop
can send and receive files from my desktop, but my desktop can not
send and receive files from the laptop.Â*Â* When I try it says the
desktop does not have permission to the laptop.Â* While I checked
many things to my knowledge I changed NOTHING.

Problem:Â* When I gave up and restarted the desktop, the system went
into a long restart.Â* In fact it has been restarting for over and
hour now. I am afraid if I try to turn it off, it will just try to
restart.

What do I do to get my desktop to go through the restart cycle and
come up so it can be used?



Once again MS messed with my computer because it had an update
waiting. Many times it is just a fluky mouse, other times a slightly
misbehaving program. To night it made the permission in operative.

Apparently when I tried to do a restart after working with permission
MS decided the computer was going to be updated. Activating the
restart procedure activated the download, and nearly 2.5 hours later
it finally said it was installing an update. During the 2.5 hour it
appeared to be stuck in a restart loop.

Thanks Microsoft for making my life easier.

Linux Mint doesn't update unless you tell it to update.

On 7/3/19 5:08 PM, Johnny wrote:
Thanks Microsoft for making my life easier.

Linux Mint doesn't update unless you tell it to update.



Neither does Fedora.

M$'s updates are a nightmare. Strangely, no other operating
system seems to be able to duplicate M$'s problems with updates.
My guess is the M$'s programming is not top down, but hodgepodge
stream of conscience.

iOS has come a little close a few time, but only a couple that
I know of.

My Virtual Machine (VM) of W7 and W-Nein (w-10) both have
their updates turned off. But then again, they have very,
very little contact with the Internet and are used mainly
for research. I have had customer almost beg me to turn of
their W-Nein updates.

On 7/3/19 4:15 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
I was trying to troubleshoot a problem with with my LAN.Â* My laptop can
send and receive files from my desktop, but my desktop can not send and
receive files from the laptop.Â*Â* When I try it says the desktop does not
have permission to the laptop.Â* While I checked many things to my
knowledge I changed NOTHING.

Problem:Â* When I gave up and restarted the desktop, the system went into
a long restart.Â* In fact it has been restarting for over and hour now. I
am afraid if I try to turn it off, it will just try to restart.

What do I do to get my desktop to go through the restart cycle and come
up so it can be used?




Hi Keith,

If you every get your machine going again, this is usually caused
by not having the same user account on both machines.

If you do not want to go that route, there is a way to turn
that off too.

-T


My keeper on the subject:

How to access shared folder without giving username and password


1) -- Control Panel
-- Network and sharing center
-- Change advanced sharing settings
-- Enable Turn Off password protect sharing option (three
places)

2) Enable the Guest User account (Pro Version, home is a pain in the ass)
Windows 7:
https://www.windows-commandline.com/...guest-account/
Windows 10:
https://www.intowindows.com/3-ways-t...in-windows-10/


3) -- Shared Folder's Properties
-- Security
-- include Guest

And reboot!

Johnny wrote:
On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 19:55:52 -0400
Keith Nuttle wrote:

On 7/3/2019 7:15 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
I was trying to troubleshoot a problem with with my LAN. My laptop
can send and receive files from my desktop, but my desktop can not
send and receive files from the laptop. When I try it says the
desktop does not have permission to the laptop. While I checked
many things to my knowledge I changed NOTHING.

Problem: When I gave up and restarted the desktop, the system went
into a long restart. In fact it has been restarting for over and
hour now. I am afraid if I try to turn it off, it will just try to
restart.

What do I do to get my desktop to go through the restart cycle and
come up so it can be used?



Once again MS messed with my computer because it had an update
waiting. Many times it is just a fluky mouse, other times a slightly
misbehaving program. To night it made the permission in operative.

Apparently when I tried to do a restart after working with permission
MS decided the computer was going to be updated. Activating the
restart procedure activated the download, and nearly 2.5 hours later
it finally said it was installing an update. During the 2.5 hour it
appeared to be stuck in a restart loop.

Thanks Microsoft for making my life easier.

Linux Mint doesn't update unless you tell it to update.


There's a "pause for seven days" button just below the
"Check For Updates".

I take it this is an Enterprise-like feature, allowing
someone to actually get work done during the week.

You can *feel* the power.

*******

I think I got that update a couple days ago, and it
did seem to behave a bit oddly. But nothing like Keiths
problem.

You could use a System Rescue CD and do:

DISM /image:c:\ /cleanup-image /revertpendingactions

Then reboot and it should come up roughly in the
state it was in, before it got indigestion.

No need for a lot of sfc /scannow or DISM restorehealth
type stuff. As there's no hint it's really damaged as such.
Just a bit of underdone beef has put it off its oats.
A little revert is all it needs.

After it comes back up, you then start Googling to see
what Update that is (i.e. the latest one for 1903),
download it from catalog.update.microsoft.com and
RAM that mother in. Now, one more reboot and you're
done for today. The .msu files typically install
with a little less drama.

A little hair loss ? Well, yeah, Win10 is for
bald people. I blame Balmer.

Paul

On 2019-07-04 01:15, Keith Nuttle wrote:
I was trying to troubleshoot a problem with with my LAN.Â* My laptop can
send and receive files from my desktop, but my desktop can not send and
receive files from the laptop.Â*Â* When I try it says the desktop does not
have permission to the laptop.Â* While I checked many things to my
knowledge I changed NOTHING.

That seems to be a usual problem when:
- One of the computers is on a wired and the other on a WiFi connection
to the same LAN
- One or more computers are multi-homed (connected to one or more LANs),
either by having multiple LAN cards or by setting up a LAN card with
multiple IP address ranges.

This can be seen using Wireshark: the SMB protocol stack selects the
wrong address range for advertising.
When you need both, like me, you are really screwed. Windows used to
have a setting to set the priority of cards, and/or the IP ranges, but
that has been removed in Win10. There is probably a register trick but I
haven't found it yet. Probably I'll have to use the laptop on a wired
LAN, and on the main PC use a batch file to turn off the other LAN cards
and IP ranges temporarily when sharing files. Or use the cloud, or
sneaker-net...

Regards,
Arie

Sorry Keith,
that answer was for the 'computer not found problem'.
You have the 'user not found' problem.

The user needs to have an account on the remote computer to access
files. E.g. I have made an account for user 'backup' on each computer to
allow backup of remote files from a central PC..

Arie


On 2019-07-04 08:45, Arie de Muynck wrote:
On 2019-07-04 01:15, Keith Nuttle wrote:
I was trying to troubleshoot a problem with with my LAN.Â* My laptop
can send and receive files from my desktop, but my desktop can not
send and receive files from the laptop.Â*Â* When I try it says the
desktop does not have permission to the laptop.Â* While I checked many
things to my knowledge I changed NOTHING.

That seems to be a usual problem when:
- One of the computers is on a wired and the other on a WiFi connection
to the same LAN
- One or more computers are multi-homed (connected to one or more LANs),
either by having multiple LAN cards or by setting up a LAN card with
multiple IP address ranges.

This can be seen using Wireshark: the SMB protocol stack selects the
wrong address range for advertising.
When you need both, like me, you are really screwed. Windows used to
have a setting to set the priority of cards, and/or the IP ranges, but
that has been removed in Win10. There is probably a register trick but I
haven't found it yet. Probably I'll have to use the laptop on a wired
LAN, and on the main PC use a batch file to turn off the other LAN cards
and IP ranges temporarily when sharing files. Or use the cloud, or
sneaker-net...

Regards,
Arie

Arie de Muynck wrote:
Sorry Keith,
that answer was for the 'computer not found problem'.
You have the 'user not found' problem.

The user needs to have an account on the remote computer to access
files. E.g. I have made an account for user 'backup' on each computer to
allow backup of remote files from a central PC..

Arie

At this point, we have to wait until he reproduces
the problem.

I've had file sharing symptoms change after an OS Upgrade,
but nothing significant has happened recently.

Paul

On 7/4/2019 2:45 AM, Arie de Muynck wrote:
On 2019-07-04 01:15, Keith Nuttle wrote:
I was trying to troubleshoot a problem with with my LAN.Â* My laptop
can send and receive files from my desktop, but my desktop can not
send and receive files from the laptop.Â*Â* When I try it says the
desktop does not have permission to the laptop.Â* While I checked many
things to my knowledge I changed NOTHING.

That seems to be a usual problem when:
- One of the computers is on a wired and the other on a WiFi connection
to the same LAN
- One or more computers are multi-homed (connected to one or more LANs),
either by having multiple LAN cards or by setting up a LAN card with
multiple IP address ranges.

This can be seen using Wireshark: the SMB protocol stack selects the
wrong address range for advertising.
When you need both, like me, you are really screwed. Windows used to
have a setting to set the priority of cards, and/or the IP ranges, but
that has been removed in Win10. There is probably a register trick but I
haven't found it yet. Probably I'll have to use the laptop on a wired
LAN, and on the main PC use a batch file to turn off the other LAN cards
and IP ranges temporarily when sharing files. Or use the cloud, or
sneaker-net...

Regards,
Arie
OP: This is interesting, as my laptop has been used to connect
wirelessly to project the screen to my Samsung Smart TV. I will
investigate.

However while the symptons may be new, the apparent problem predates the
purchase of the smart TV

--
Judge your ancestors by how well they met their standards not yours.
They did not know your standards, so could not try to meet them.

On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 06:51:50 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

On 7/4/2019 2:45 AM, Arie de Muynck wrote:
On 2019-07-04 01:15, Keith Nuttle wrote:
I was trying to troubleshoot a problem with with my LAN.* My laptop
can send and receive files from my desktop, but my desktop can not
send and receive files from the laptop.** When I try it says the
desktop does not have permission to the laptop.* While I checked many
things to my knowledge I changed NOTHING.

That seems to be a usual problem when:
- One of the computers is on a wired and the other on a WiFi connection
to the same LAN
- One or more computers are multi-homed (connected to one or more LANs),
either by having multiple LAN cards or by setting up a LAN card with
multiple IP address ranges.

This can be seen using Wireshark: the SMB protocol stack selects the
wrong address range for advertising.
When you need both, like me, you are really screwed. Windows used to
have a setting to set the priority of cards, and/or the IP ranges, but
that has been removed in Win10. There is probably a register trick but I
haven't found it yet. Probably I'll have to use the laptop on a wired
LAN, and on the main PC use a batch file to turn off the other LAN cards
and IP ranges temporarily when sharing files. Or use the cloud, or
sneaker-net...

Regards,
Arie
OP: This is interesting, as my laptop has been used to connect
wirelessly to project the screen to my Samsung Smart TV. I will
investigate.

However while the symptons may be new, the apparent problem predates the
purchase of the smart TV

To the OP: I had a similar problem after an upgrade a while back. It
only happened when the one desktop was set to a static IP. I never
understood the root problem, but setting the disktop to use DHCP fixed
the problem. (My router always assigns the desktop the same IP
address so I didn't really need static.)

Pat

Keith Nuttle wrote:

OP: This is interesting, as my laptop has been used to connect
wirelessly to project the screen to my Samsung Smart TV. I will
investigate.

However while the symptons may be new, the apparent problem predates the
purchase of the smart TV

What is the situation today, now that all of the
reboot loops have settled down, and you're
running some release ?

Start : Run : winver

Check the IP address on each machine, as proof
they're working OK.

192.168.x.x non-routable IP for home LAN (DHCP)
172.x
10.0.0.x

169.x APIPA, spells trouble

The first three are spelled out in detail here.
And the first three are options for DHCP setups.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_network

The APIPA choice is what happens when an isolated
PC can't figure out an IP for itself. Can be overridden
with a static IP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link-local_address

Running "ipconfig" in Command Prompt, will give you
details about the IP assignment at the moment.

*******

Running this, helps summarize your local setup,
in terms of which computers are in the neighborhood.

http://www.unixwiz.net/tools/nbtscan.html

nbtscan-1.0.35.exe 36,864 bytes

A run looks like this. The 24 is the netmask, and
says "iterate over the last number field, trying
nodes 0..255 or so". In this example, the second
entry is a VM running on the same machine (just so
I could have two entries).

C:\nbtscan-1.0.35__unixwiz_net.exe 192.168.2.0/24

192.168.2.104 WORKGROUP\BOB SHARING
192.168.2.108 WORKGROUP\IE10WIN7 SHARING
*timeout (normal end of scan)

You can see in the example, that both machines belong
to the same workgroup=WORKGROUP. I've had cases where
one machine is WORKGROUP, the other is MSHOME, which
isn't good.

HTH,
Paul

On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 18:20:56 -0700, T wrote:

M$'s updates are a nightmare.

(Very selective response here.)

I'm a W7 user and can't say I've experienced many problems. I assembled
my PC in 2012, installed W7 and in all that time I've had to use my
backup image once because of problems after an update.

Now, my mother,my sister and an uncle all have W10 and they also have
/never/ experienced any problems with updating. Believe me, I'm the
first one they would call. Updates are set to download and install
automatically.

--
s|b

On Thu, 04 Jul 2019 21:36:49 +0200, "s|b" wrote:

On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 18:20:56 -0700, T wrote:

M$'s updates are a nightmare.

(Very selective response here.)

I'm a W7 user and can't say I've experienced many problems. I assembled
my PC in 2012, installed W7 and in all that time I've had to use my
backup image once because of problems after an update.

Now, my mother,my sister and an uncle all have W10 and they also have
/never/ experienced any problems with updating. Believe me, I'm the
first one they would call. Updates are set to download and install
automatically.


Add me and my wife (both running Windows 10) to the list of those who
have never had such a problem. But apparently updating problems are
much more common for those who have older hardware.

Ken Blake wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jul 2019 21:36:49 +0200, "s|b" wrote:

On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 18:20:56 -0700, T wrote:

M$'s updates are a nightmare.
(Very selective response here.)

I'm a W7 user and can't say I've experienced many problems. I assembled
my PC in 2012, installed W7 and in all that time I've had to use my
backup image once because of problems after an update.

Now, my mother,my sister and an uncle all have W10 and they also have
/never/ experienced any problems with updating. Believe me, I'm the
first one they would call. Updates are set to download and install
automatically.


Add me and my wife (both running Windows 10) to the list of those who
have never had such a problem. But apparently updating problems are
much more common for those who have older hardware.


I find most of the time, using a catalog.update.microsoft.com
version of a KBxxxxxxx update (a .msu file), most always
clears a logjam. I hardly ever need to delete the contents
of SoftwareDistribution. That was a favorite trick on some
of the early releases.

I would say the scheme is hardly flawless, considering
I don't have the machine decked out with snake oil
and toolbars. I'm pretty selective about the schlock
placed on the machine.

I've had one occasion where I needed the DISM "revert"
command from an emergency boot CD, which brought the
system back up properly (it returned as if the half-installed
update had never been delivered).

The situation is "manageable", but hardly a reason
for an Oscar trophy.

Now the people who leave their failed updates in a
big pile, and you find two years worth of failures,
naturally there is more fun to be had there.

Paul