Win10 versions/editions

Mike Easter wrote:
Paul wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:

But OTOH, what is the 'purpose' of a tiny 365.78 MiB alleged recovery
image, which I haven't seen inside yet apparently because of its 0x27
type which linux calls 'unknown'. I've been hesitant to mess w/
trying to see things on that part because it is small enough that
whatever is there can't be very useful for recovery (as an image).

There is a .wim file in there, a bootable one with enough
OS to support Command Prompt, CHKDSK, diskpart, and so on.

I can understand the concept of a little OS that can do that; but that
isn't a 'recovery' image, more like the 'repair' disk that Win will make
for you. That was the first thing that I 'discovered' when I was
'imagining' that I could have a Win recovery DVD. Instead it made that
little utility system on my DVD.

That kind of disk isn't a 'recovery image' that can be used (per se) to
restore an installation.

Using TestDisk, after the scan is done, there is a "List Files"
option you can use to look inside the 0x27 partition.

There's a testdisk in my linux repos I installed (on a live Mint 19.2b
w/ persistence) that I can see the part, but I didn't actually see the
filename.

https://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Step_By_Step

That page doesn't have the exact P result I saw w/ the file
characteristics, and I didn't make a log.

Pressing "P" at this level, lists files.

https://www.cgsecurity.org/mw/images/First_results.png

The 'list' I got didn't include the filenames of the files I 'saw'.

If the information I have so far is correct, that I can install a MS
.iso that I boot 'without any problems' because the activation process
will be handled by the mobo chip and I won't even need to feed it a
product key (which I didn't have to do to activate the system which came
on the drive); then I don't have any more 'problems'.

I don't like to have to fix some partition problems which can develop. I
don't mind 'messing' with them, but I also like to be able to just blast
the system off and start all over with a clean hdd.

Another 'issue' I wonder is, What if I chose to replace the hdd w/ an
SSD. I still have the mobo chip, but the hardware has changed,
presumably 'significantly' if a storage drive change 'alone' is enough
to be significant.

The OS still does a hardware hash, but it's most likely to include
the NIC MAC address from the motherboard. Rather than put as large
a weight as the older OSes used to put on RAM and CPU model. You can change
the HDD to SSD, without anything tipping over. I change storage devices
all the time without issue.

The license key is held in the MSDM table on a brand new Win10 OEM (Dell)
laptop or desktop.

Your machine is a refurb, which means the license key is on the HDD and
likely is not an MSDM table entry. If this was originally a Windows 7 laptop,
then the BIOS content is a SLIC table (says "I'm a Dell" kind of thing)
and does not contain a key as such.

For licenses created via Digital Entitlement, the license information
is on the MSFT server.

To be on the safe side, use something like Nirsoft ProduKey and
snapshot the license on the HDD now. And write it down somewhere
in case there is a problem later. You can clone over to an SSD, or
start fresh, and as long as you have the Refurbisher key, I can't
see you "falling through any cracks". And remember to "test"
the behavior of the OS, by denying it access to that key. The
key you capture with ProduKey, is when you have determined
that no other mechanism "has your back", and that key
really is "the only thing you own" at the moment. I expect
the license server has the info, but it never hurts to
do some belt and suspenders work while you have the chance.

When the OS is done as a "Free Upgrade", the actual license
key on the disk is a "fake" key. One of the fake keys ends
in 3V66T (that's pro). Some examples of fakes a

VK7JG-NPHTM-C97JM-9MPGT-3V66T (Windows 10 Professional) --- X79
YTMG3-N6DKC-DKB77-7M9GH-8HVX7 (Windows 10 Home - multi language) --- laptop!
BT79Q-G7N6G-PGBYW-4YWX6-6F4BT (Windows 10 Home - single language)

The Refurbisher OS is supposed to have been given a "real" key.

Paul

Paul wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:

If the information I have so far is correct, that I can install a MS
.iso that I boot 'without any problems' because the activation process
will be handled by the mobo chip and I won't even need to feed it a
product key (which I didn't have to do to activate the system which
came on the drive); then I don't have any more 'problems'.

Another 'issue' I wonder is, What if I chose to replace the hdd w/ an
SSD.Â* I still have the mobo chip, but the hardware has changed,
presumably 'significantly' if a storage drive change 'alone' is enough
to be significant.

You can change
the HDD to SSD, without anything tipping over. I change storage devices
all the time without issue.

Your machine is a refurb, which means the license key is on the HDD and
likely is not an MSDM table entry. If this was originally a Windows 7
laptop,
then the BIOS content is a SLIC table (says "I'm a Dell" kind of thing)
and does not contain a key as such.

I think that it was not a Win7. Something I saw somewhere made me think
that it was a Win8, but I can't remember where I got that impression.
The 'bios' is dated 2012 Nov, and Win8 was released 2012 Oct.

I'm not familiar w/ the MSDM term, but I'm reading around that (2014)
"Windows 8 uses a new generation system, looking for an OEM ACPI table
called MSDM. The MSDM table contains a hardware hash that matches the
machine it is installed on, along with a full OEM Windows key, which is
specific to the machine it is installed on. There are no longer generic
OEM keys that will trigger OEM activation, each OEM machine has a unique
key. No system is perfect, and MSDM could probably be overcome by
pirates if there were no other methods, but since there are
alternatives, attention has focused there."

So, I guess the MSDM is a firmware table containing both hardware hash
and product key elements.

The AST people say these words exactly "the computer has a digital key
embedded to the motherboard" and/but they also say that "the activation
will only work for our AST image. To activate the windows, you will need
the original hard drive & OS that comes with the computer in order to
activate the windows."

To be on the safe side, use something like Nirsoft ProduKey and
snapshot the license on the HDD now. And write it down somewhere
in case there is a problem later. You can clone over to an SSD, or
start fresh, and as long as you have the Refurbisher key, I can't
see you "falling through any cracks". And remember to "test"
the behavior of the OS, by denying it access to that key. The
key you capture with ProduKey, is when you have determined
that no other mechanism "has your back", and that key
really is "the only thing you own" at the moment. I expect
the license server has the info, but it never hurts to
do some belt and suspenders work while you have the chance.

Yes; I have the product key from Nirsoft's tool.

When the OS is done as a "Free Upgrade", the actual license
key on the disk is a "fake" key. One of the fake keys ends
in 3V66T (that's pro). Some examples of fakes a

VK7JG-NPHTM-C97JM-9MPGT-3V66T (Windows 10 Professional) --- X79
YTMG3-N6DKC-DKB77-7M9GH-8HVX7 (Windows 10 Home - multi language)Â*Â*Â* ---
laptop!
BT79Q-G7N6G-PGBYW-4YWX6-6F4BT (Windows 10 Home - single language)

The Refurbisher OS is supposed to have been given a "real" key.


With the Win7 hardware, besides the partition containing a 'real'
recovery, Joy refurb also gave me a refurb Win7 DVD w/ the first one and
an .iso (after I asked for it) w/ the 2nd one.

I haven't gotten that kind of cooperation from AST yet.


--
Mike Easter

Mike Easter wrote:
Paul wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:

If the information I have so far is correct, that I can install a MS
.iso that I boot 'without any problems' because the activation
process will be handled by the mobo chip and I won't even need to
feed it a product key (which I didn't have to do to activate the
system which came on the drive); then I don't have any more 'problems'.

Another 'issue' I wonder is, What if I chose to replace the hdd w/ an
SSD. I still have the mobo chip, but the hardware has changed,
presumably 'significantly' if a storage drive change 'alone' is
enough to be significant.

You can change
the HDD to SSD, without anything tipping over. I change storage devices
all the time without issue.

Your machine is a refurb, which means the license key is on the HDD and
likely is not an MSDM table entry. If this was originally a Windows 7
laptop,
then the BIOS content is a SLIC table (says "I'm a Dell" kind of thing)
and does not contain a key as such.

I think that it was not a Win7. Something I saw somewhere made me think
that it was a Win8, but I can't remember where I got that impression.
The 'bios' is dated 2012 Nov, and Win8 was released 2012 Oct.

I'm not familiar w/ the MSDM term, but I'm reading around that (2014)
"Windows 8 uses a new generation system, looking for an OEM ACPI table
called MSDM. The MSDM table contains a hardware hash that matches the
machine it is installed on, along with a full OEM Windows key, which is
specific to the machine it is installed on. There are no longer generic
OEM keys that will trigger OEM activation, each OEM machine has a unique
key. No system is perfect, and MSDM could probably be overcome by
pirates if there were no other methods, but since there are
alternatives, attention has focused there."

So, I guess the MSDM is a firmware table containing both hardware hash
and product key elements.

The AST people say these words exactly "the computer has a digital key
embedded to the motherboard" and/but they also say that "the activation
will only work for our AST image. To activate the windows, you will need
the original hard drive & OS that comes with the computer in order to
activate the windows."

To be on the safe side, use something like Nirsoft ProduKey and
snapshot the license on the HDD now. And write it down somewhere
in case there is a problem later. You can clone over to an SSD, or
start fresh, and as long as you have the Refurbisher key, I can't
see you "falling through any cracks". And remember to "test"
the behavior of the OS, by denying it access to that key. The
key you capture with ProduKey, is when you have determined
that no other mechanism "has your back", and that key
really is "the only thing you own" at the moment. I expect
the license server has the info, but it never hurts to
do some belt and suspenders work while you have the chance.

Yes; I have the product key from Nirsoft's tool.

When the OS is done as a "Free Upgrade", the actual license
key on the disk is a "fake" key. One of the fake keys ends
in 3V66T (that's pro). Some examples of fakes a

VK7JG-NPHTM-C97JM-9MPGT-3V66T (Windows 10 Professional) --- X79
YTMG3-N6DKC-DKB77-7M9GH-8HVX7 (Windows 10 Home - multi language)
--- laptop!
BT79Q-G7N6G-PGBYW-4YWX6-6F4BT (Windows 10 Home - single language)

The Refurbisher OS is supposed to have been given a "real" key.


With the Win7 hardware, besides the partition containing a 'real'
recovery, Joy refurb also gave me a refurb Win7 DVD w/ the first one and
an .iso (after I asked for it) w/ the 2nd one.

I haven't gotten that kind of cooperation from AST yet.



You should be able to dump ACPI tables from Linux.

I don't think the SLIC is particularly readable
(motherboards without a valid SLIC, still have 10KB of
binary garbage in the table, or so I've read). The MSDM
should be more readable. If there was an MSDM, then the
machine was originally Win8 or Win10. A Windows 7 or
older machine would have a SLIC. An unanswered question
is whether any machine ever leaves the factory with
valid versions of both. A business machine with a Pro OS
on it, should have "downgrade rights" and a Win8 machine
should have a Win8 MSDM and a SLIC so the Win7 Pro
media would work. I've not been able to verify that.

Paul

Paul wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
Paul wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
I was planning on dl/ing a MS Win10 Home to make a bootable USB.

What would cause a person to choose either the 1809 or the 1903
editions to dl to make a bootable USB?

It's a rolling release.

Every release has fresh bugs, with no "convergence" behavior like on
older Windows (like you would expect WinXP Sp3 to be "largely bug
free" in a sense, nothing of the kind happens on Windows 10).

Unless there is some reason for "freezing" a machine on a particular
release, you just download the most recent one.

So, the 'logic' behind MS's decision to make two different editions
available to dl, as opposed to only one, the newest 1903, is perhaps
based on the fact that 'someone up there' (in MS) feels that that
strategy is the 'nicest' in terms of apparent choice that MS should
do. As opposed to, say, making ALL of the currently supported editions
available, which would include some forms of 4 different editions
from 1709 to 1903.

In the case of linux .iso/s for dl, there is some logic behind making
older .iso/s available, and someone who has insight into the various
v/s can make an intelligent decision about which v. they want to dl.

In the case of MS and its rolling nature one would need to know that
there is something about 1903 that they didn't like that would cause
them to choose 1809 instead, and there isn't any practical way they
could get such as 1709, as an example, at MS. And then they might
eschew updating for a time.

The split into a 7 version and an 11 version disc, has been there
for perhaps three releases. And it's not clear what the objective
is, except to annoy people. I wish they'd just make two discs,
maybe a 7 version plus an "obscure 4" version, and call it a day.

The Windows 10 versions are described here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_versions

Version 1507
Version 1511 (November Update)
Version 1607 (Anniversary Update)
Version 1703 (Creators Update)
Version 1709 (Fall Creators Update)
Version 1803 (April 2018 Update)
Version 1809 (October 2018 Update)
Version 1903 (May 2019 Update)

If you use Heidoc to generate a URL, the 11 version OS
(too big for single layer DVD) will show up for the
last three or so versions. This is a URL generator for
multiple OSes, and Windows 10 is the "easiest" for this
tool to generate a URL.

https://www.heidoc.net/joomla/techno...-download-tool

You could probably damage the Windows Update logic
enough, to freeze at a particular version, but then
that makes keeping Windows Defenders definitions
a bit of a nuisance to update. If you need Windows
Defender definitions for manual installation, they
are here.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/definitions

Another way to do it, might be to shut off
DoSvc and BITS and make it impossible for the
OS to download stuff. And then you'd likely find
continuous package management scans running, burning
up one core of the processor.

The OS will always find something moronic to do.
No matter what.

Paul

I update my defender definitions every morning startup of the computer by
running a batch file from my desktop:

START "" /WAIT "C:\Program Files\Windows
Defender\MpCmdRun.exe" -SignatureUpdate -MMPC
START "" /WAIT "C:\Program Files\Windows Defender\MpCmdRun.exe" -Scan -1
Echo off
cls

if %errorlevel%==0 goto :NoThreats
if %errorlevel%==2 goto :ThreatsFound
:NoThreats
Echo No Threats.
goto :gotoend

:ThreatsFound
Echo Threats Found.
goto :gotoend

:gotoend
Pause
--
Bill

Brought to you from Anchorage, Alaska

Mike Easter wrote:
The AST people say these words exactly "the computer has a digital key
embedded to the motherboard" and/but they also say that "the activation
will only work for our AST image.

That is not the same as information that I see elsewhere online where
people are asking about various refurb Win10s. Online advisors are
saying that the MS .iso/s will authenticate.

There's a very big diff. If the refurber doesn't provide an image of
their .iso w/ the refurb, the user's 'license' for the refurb is much
impaired and 'vulnerable' to loss.

--
Mike Easter

Mike Easter wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
The AST people say these words exactly "the computer has a digital key
embedded to the motherboard" and/but they also say that "the
activation will only work for our AST image.

That is not the same as information that I see elsewhere online where
people are asking about various refurb Win10s.Â* Online advisors are
saying that the MS .iso/s will authenticate.

I suppose I could shrink the Win10 part and use a MS .iso to see if I
could install another Win10 and authenticate it.

Or AST could provide me an AST Win10 .iso online somewhere.

--
Mike Easter

Mike Easter wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
The AST people say these words exactly "the computer has a digital
key embedded to the motherboard" and/but they also say that "the
activation will only work for our AST image.

That is not the same as information that I see elsewhere online where
people are asking about various refurb Win10s. Online advisors are
saying that the MS .iso/s will authenticate.

I suppose I could shrink the Win10 part and use a MS .iso to see if I
could install another Win10 and authenticate it.

Or AST could provide me an AST Win10 .iso online somewhere.


Yes, you could do that.

When installing (boot the DVD), select the Custom option,
create a partition for the install (85GB might be free and
clear of all obstacles). If you're already running 1903,
the "small" partitions should not need a size change
(by the automation logic in the installer). Don't offer
it a key, and see if it is able to authenticate by itself.

Later, using EasyBCD or using BCDEDIT, you can unhook the
new partition (hygiene purposes). Then delete the new C: you
created. AFAIK, the boot materials (identified by Disk Management)
should be on another partition. While it's possible to install
Windows with only the one partition, that makes reagentc
ineffective and reduces your automated repair strategy options,
so they shouldn't be installing that way.

https://i.postimg.cc/7P55YZKq/dual-Win10.gif

In that example, I should be able to

1) Choose E: as the default boot partition.
This choice (select default) is in the
graphical boot menu itself, as well as somewhere
in the System control panel.

2) Once E: boots, you can use EasyBCD to remove the
right-most C: OS partition.

3) When it comes up, there should be only one OS choice.
It might skip the OS choice menu entirely, when only
one OS is present.

4) The Macrium Reflect emergency boot CD has a "boot repair"
option, which will correct inconsistent boot menus as well.
You don't even need EasyBCD (2), if you don't want to use it.
Delete the right-most copy of Win10, boot the Emergency CD,
select "Boot Repair" and it will (like an update-grub),
fix things up for you.

HTH,
Paul


Paul

Paul wrote:

https://i.postimg.cc/7P55YZKq/dual-Win10.gif

What is in that 1000 MB 'Recovery' Part? Is that just able to make the
little bootable 'utility' - whatever it is called.

--
Mike Easter

Mike Easter wrote:
Paul wrote:

https://i.postimg.cc/7P55YZKq/dual-Win10.gif

What is in that 1000 MB 'Recovery' Part? Is that just able to make the
little bootable 'utility' - whatever it is called.


That isn't normal.

I got tired of them changing that, so I made
it bigger than it needs to be, so they'd leave it
alone.

The Insider disk drive receives frequent OS Upgrades.

Basically every time I boot that disk, it gets an Upgrade.

But, it's a dual boot setup, so I can also take pictures
of it for display purposes.

You can use TestDisk to look in the hidden ones.

I've made a picture before, of the contents of those
partitions. But I don't know what the name of that file is.
One would have the equivalent of /boot in it. The other
should have a 350MB WinRE.wim file. Some versions of
Win10 make duplicates of one of those partitions, leaving
an orphan behind. They do that, because the resizing logic
cannot do the job properly. (Windows still doesn't have
a complete partition manager built in, so there are
limits as to the magic the installer logic can carry out.)

Paul

Mike Easter wrote:
The AST people say these words exactly "the computer has a digital key
embedded to the motherboard" and/but they also say that "the
activation will only work for our AST image.

That is not the same as information that I see elsewhere online where
people are asking about various refurb Win10s.Â* Online advisors are
saying that the MS .iso/s will authenticate.


In my email correspondence with AST, their style of communication does
not directly address the specific issues I raise, but instead they
simply provide one or another boilerplate response.

After my first, I got instructions for activating, which I had already
done and didn't need. But that email also provided useful info about
the chip method of product key for this hardware, and/but it said that
the key was only good for the AST Win10 specifically, even tho' I
specifically asked if the product key (whether provided by chip or my
having obtained the key w/ Nirsoft Produckey) would work for the MS .iso.

After my second email, in which I again emphasized that if the product
key were only good for the AST image and not MS's then I wanted an AST
..iso or image, and also that on 2 different Win7 refurbs Joy had
provided images not only on the hdd recovery part, but also by DVD for
the first and a link to an online .iso for the 2nd, /then/ AST sent
boilerplate instructions for downloading from MS and creating media.

So, now they are saying/ confirming/ that the MS media will work. Fine.
Glad to hear it.



--
Mike Easter

On 26/07/2019 14:22, Mike Easter wrote:


After my first, I got instructions for activating, which I had already
done and didn't need. But that email also provided useful info about
the chip method of product key for this hardware, and/but it said that
the key was only good for the AST Win10 specifically, even tho' I
specifically asked if the product key (whether provided by chip or my
having obtained the key w/ Nirsoft Produckey) would work for the MS .iso.


What amazes me is that you don't understand when people tell you that
you don't need a product key or a serial number or call what you may to
install Windows 10 on the machine that was pre-activated with a digital
license. It doesn't matter where you get the ISO from. It will just
work. PERIOD. How else can anybody cleanly install Windows 10 when they
need to? Digital License just works for any situation and stop reading
about crap that says Microsoft is spying on you. Microsoft needs to
know who is using their Operating system so the system must allow some
communication with Microsoft servers. Piracy used to be a big business
but Microsoft seems to have controlled it with its latest technology.

However, if you are trying to pirate a software, and I suspect that is
what you are trying to do, then the product key embedded in the
computer's BIOS is not transferable so don't waste your time doing it
unless you want to embarrass yourself.


crap deleted as it is asking about how to pirate a software.





--
With over 999 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

GG wrote:
What amazes me

You aren't very good at getting the picture. Perhaps you should get a
new lens.

I've moved you into the 'mark messages as read' filter in some win
groups. At the next level you disappear.


--
Mike Easter

Another one feeds the troll
Another one feeds the troll
And another one bites, and another one bites
Another one feeds the troll
Hey, I'm gonna get you, too
Another one feeds the troll.


On 26/07/2019 19:34, Mike Easter wrote:
GG wrote:
What amazes me

You aren't very good at getting the picture.Â* Perhaps you should get a
new lens.

THIS NYM-SHIFTER HAS CHANGED HIS NYM TO MAKE US READ HIS POSTS!! I HAVE
GG IN MY KILLFILE BUT THIS ONE CAME THROUGH WITH DIFFERENT SOMETHING.

IT IS TIME TO CHANGE THE FILTER AGAIN.



On 26/07/2019 22:11, � Good Guy � wrote:

Another one feeds the troll
Another one feeds the troll
And another one bites, and another one bites
Another one feeds the troll
Hey, I'm gonna get you, too
Another one feeds the troll.


On 26/07/2019 19:34, Mike Easter wrote:
GG wrote:
What amazes me

You aren't very good at getting the picture. Perhaps you should get
a new lens.

Mike Easter posted this
via :

GG wrote:
What amazes me

You aren't very good at getting the picture. Perhaps you should get a
new lens.

I've moved you into the 'mark messages as read' filter in some win
groups. At the next level you disappear.

Thanks for announcing that to the whole world, you ****ing moron.

(It doesn't matter to me because I don't read Mike "Sissypants" Easter's
posts anyway because he's a bloviating idiot who wants to look important.)

--

I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^;

Resolve conflicts the American way :

Rock - Paper - Scissors - Usenet Filtration

.... and I approve this message!