BillW50

On 3/7/2014 11:37 PM, Wolf K wrote:

Recently, a tech person "from Microsoft" told me I had a problem with my
commuter. I kept telling him I had three computers (true at the time),
and was anxious to fix the problem, but I didn't know which computer he
was talking about, so could he please tell me? Unfortunately, I kept him
on the line only a couple of minutes.

I suppose keeping one of them on the line for a while is a "good thing
to do" if it prevents them from calling someone else, but I think it's a
little like spitting in the ocean.

If it would cause that company to change its ways, I would do it. But,
as you know,.... :-)

On 07 Mar 2014, VanguardLH wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

I either interrrupt and mute them them and put the phone aside so
they're hanging on the line getting nuisanced like they nuisanced
me, or I keep saying "Hello" or "Anyone there" while they're
talking to pretend I can't hear them but I wait until they start
to get up to speed in their script for when to interrupt.

I have a buddy that has a script ready so while the telemarketer
is talking he interrupts with "Yes, that sounds interesting and
I'd like to know more but I'd like to ask you something. Have you
heard about the power of Jesus?" The telemarketer tries to get
back to his script but my buddy just keeps responding with canned
statements about Jesus Saves, salvation through Jesus, and so on.
He promises to send a bible so asks for a postal mailing address.
Eventually they just hang up on him. Of course, that means not
having anything else to do at the time and wanting to "play" the
telemarketer. To be honest, I think he got the idea from some
comediaine's skit.

I used to try to mess with them like that, figuring that any time of
theirs I waste, the worse off they are. I've since come to the
conclusion that they don't care, they'll hang up on me the moment their
attempt at pushing through their script seems stymied. In order to
really get them, I'd have to hang in there much longer than it's worth
to me. Also, just by answering the phone and talking, my number is now
tagged as valid and is likely to be re-used and sold. So now I just
don't answer any calls where I don't recognize the caller ID. I hate
that it's come to this, but it's self-defense.

In the rare case that I do accidentally answer their call and I feel
like making a game of it, I'll pick up some handy nearly printed page,
maybe a book or newspaper, or best of all would be a technical paper
full of jargon or legalese. Then I'll answer their question with random
sentences from the paper, spoken in a cadence that they would expect.
In other words, my answer will be completely irrelevant to the topic,
but it's still a good sentence. I might mumble it a little bit to to
make them even more confused about what they're hearing. This can
actually go on pretty long. If I started out being abusive or obviously
trying to change the subject they'll hang right up, but if I truly
confuse them, they might hang on longer, thinking they've got a real
idiot on the line.

Per philo*:

http://www.nomorobo.com/

"Doesn't block school closings, doctor's appointment and prescription
reminders, weather advisories and other legal robocalls."

Can anybody speculate on how they do that?

Whitelist?
--
Pete Cresswell

On 3/8/14 12:44 PM, Nil wrote:
On 07 Mar 2014, VanguardLH wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

I either interrrupt and mute them them and put the phone aside so
they're hanging on the line getting nuisanced like they nuisanced
me, or I keep saying "Hello" or "Anyone there" while they're
talking to pretend I can't hear them but I wait until they start
to get up to speed in their script for when to interrupt.

I have a buddy that has a script ready so while the telemarketer
is talking he interrupts with "Yes, that sounds interesting and
I'd like to know more but I'd like to ask you something. Have you
heard about the power of Jesus?" The telemarketer tries to get
back to his script but my buddy just keeps responding with canned
statements about Jesus Saves, salvation through Jesus, and so on.
He promises to send a bible so asks for a postal mailing address.
Eventually they just hang up on him. Of course, that means not
having anything else to do at the time and wanting to "play" the
telemarketer. To be honest, I think he got the idea from some
comediaine's skit.

I used to try to mess with them like that, figuring that any time of
theirs I waste, the worse off they are. I've since come to the
conclusion that they don't care, they'll hang up on me the moment their
attempt at pushing through their script seems stymied. In order to
really get them, I'd have to hang in there much longer than it's worth
to me. Also, just by answering the phone and talking, my number is now
tagged as valid and is likely to be re-used and sold. So now I just
don't answer any calls where I don't recognize the caller ID. I hate
that it's come to this, but it's self-defense.

In the rare case that I do accidentally answer their call and I feel
like making a game of it, I'll pick up some handy nearly printed page,
maybe a book or newspaper, or best of all would be a technical paper
full of jargon or legalese. Then I'll answer their question with random
sentences from the paper, spoken in a cadence that they would expect.
In other words, my answer will be completely irrelevant to the topic,
but it's still a good sentence. I might mumble it a little bit to to
make them even more confused about what they're hearing. This can
actually go on pretty long. If I started out being abusive or obviously
trying to change the subject they'll hang right up, but if I truly
confuse them, they might hang on longer, thinking they've got a real
idiot on the line.

I take a different tack on spammers. That's assuming I'm getting lot of
them.

If I don't hear a real voice, or what I believe is a real vs. recorded
voice, I simply hang up. LOL


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 25.0
Thunderbird 24.3.0

On 03/08/2014 02:04 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per philo :

http://www.nomorobo.com/

"Doesn't block school closings, doctor's appointment and prescription
reminders, weather advisories and other legal robocalls."

Can anybody speculate on how they do that?

Whitelist?



It looks like they gather-up numbers from people who report them as
being generated by a robo-caller...but "nomorobo" investigates prior to
putting a number in the "blocked" list.


So far, that annoying "Card Services" has not gotten through
but I'll be able to judge better if this is really working in a few more
days.

R. C. White wrote:

I always liked the story of the guy who just hands the phone to his
3-year-old daughter and lets her talk to the telemarketer. ;)

I'd be leery of doing that. If the kid says anything that can be
interpreted as accepting the telemarketer's offer, you could end up
paying a lot for something you don't want and even be liable for
recurring charges for some minimum subscription period.

Trouble is, these days, so many are taped Robocalls and there's no way to
talk back. :(

The bot callers won't transfer to a real person until after you have
pressed the number key(s) to accept the call or proceed through their
script. They do that to keep you on their dialing list. If they
reached voicemail then they won't get a response that will have them
transfer you to their agent, so you stay on their list to get called
again. Getting past the bot message to a real person is what changes
the status to "Completed" in their records associated with your phone
number. Be careful to listen to the bot message because just pressing a
key could represent your acceptance of their offer.

I used to "Press 1" at the earliest opportunity to speak to a person - who
was eager to give the pitch to the "Live One" on the line, until I
immediately interrupted and insisted they "put me on the Do Not Call list".

Huh? It's not their responsibility or right to assume your authority to
place you on the federal DNC list. You have to do that. In fact, to be
sure you are the one that submitted the request means you have to give
them a valid e-mail address to which they send a confirmation on which
you have to act to complete your registration in adding your number to
the DNC.

Sometimes, if I remember, when I see no Caller ID info, I ask them why
they are hiding. Can I call them back on that number? What number
should I use to call THEM (not their company but the telemarketer
themself) to use as confirmation they are who they say they are. They
pretty much realize at the onset that I'm contentious. Maybe they're
lying (well, pretty much a given because of their misleading
marketspeak) and perhaps they're a burglar casing when I'm not at home
so I want to know who is calling and not just by who they claim they are
but why their telco isn't identifying their correct phone number to me.

I'm on the DNC list. I ask them how they qualify for a variance from
the DNC. Are they a political group, charity, surveyor (no sales), or
what qualifies them as having a prior business relationship with me? If
they don't qualify then I state I have been on the DNC for over 3 years
so ample time has elapsed for them to acquire (buy) the updated DNC
list. I also mention that I will filing a complaint record with the FTC
to record their DNC violation which has a penalty of $16,000 per
violation, and does the telemarketer want to risk their employment by
endangering their employer. I don't yell or insult but keep it neutral
but forceful. Usually they apologize and disconnect (and a few times
mention they will update their list). Sometimes just the mention of the
Do Not Call registry has them immediately say Sorry and hangup (so I
lose the good part of my retort about the fine of $16,000).

Many telemarketing scripts have been authored by experts, sometimes by
sociologists. They get you to start agreeing and saying Yes and keep
doing so to make you more susceptible to their offer. Someone that is
kept saying Yes is morely like to continue saying Yes. Often the first
thing they say is "Am I speaking with so-and-so" to get you to say Yes
right away. When I hear that introduction, I say "Who is calling?
Please identify yourself and your company." At the start, I don't agree
but instead am contentious. That's not always. If I'm in the mood,
I'll play them but typically I'm too busy at the time to waste [much] on
them.

Alek Trishan wrote:

I suppose keeping one of them on the line for a while is a "good thing
to do" if it prevents them from calling someone else, but I think it's a
little like spitting in the ocean.

Then I suspect you think greylisting has no effect on spam, either, but
it does because it is a consistent and constant hurdle to spammers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greylisting
http://forum.spamcop.net/scwik/GreyListing

Too bad it isn't available as an option you can configure in your
account at all e-mail providers. Greylisting can easily be circumvented
by spammers operating their own servers by resubmitting the message in a
few minutes -- but they don't. One, when they operate their own server
then they're on the public blacklists and get blocked. Two, they can be
identified by operating their own server (versus abusing someone else's
over which they have no control over retries). Three, they're sending
out millions of spams per day and cannot afford the time to spend on
retries to any particular recipient. Easily circumvented doesn't equate
to low expense in effort and time.

Also remember that many telemarketing companies are not sophisticated
computer savvy entities with high telephony bandwidth, professional
staff, buying lists to know the interests of their callees, or working
out of a shiny skyscraper. They're boiler room operations. Often you
can hear the other telemarketers in the background since they can't even
afford cubicle walls, just some tables with multiple phones on headsets
on each. The three little words "Hold On, Please" while putting down
your phone and walking off or doing something else rather than hanging
up immediately makes each call so time-consuming that boiler rooms grind
to a halt with idle telemarketers.

Telemarketing companies do not have unlimited manpower. Even their
dialer bots can handle only so many call per minute. They have a
limited number of outgoing lines. Use up their limited resources but
only if it gives you some satisfaction.

Keep 'em busy with no success but do something else yourself in the
meantime. Do you stand at the microwave oven waiting for the timer to
expire? Their loss of time is not your loss of time. When I hear the
loud beeping (http://www.soundjay.com/phone/sounds...off-hook-1.mp3)
telling the call has been disconnected then I hang up the phone. Do I
worry about losing another incoming call while keeping the telemarketer
on hold? Nah, that's what voicemail is for, plus I use Google Voice as
a front end to dial ALL my numbers (home, cell phones, and work at
limited times) so I'll still get those other calls which I can pickup or
leave to voicemail.

By the way, there is a trick to avoid the bot dialers if you use your
voicemail or answering machine for screening. Start your outgoing
message with the "out of service" (aka vacant circuit aka special
information tone or SIT) tone. I don't remember where I first got it
but found one at:

http://www.yourhomenow.com/sound/sit-tone.wav

When the bots hear that, they assume the number they called is out of
service (disconnected or has not yet been assigned), abort the call, and
move on. You can keep your same outgoing message so good callers will
understand to leave a message (while you're screening the call to see if
you want to pickup). The tone doesn't confuse them because they don't
know what it means, especially when followed by your outgoing message.

Alek Trishan wrote:

Those are all very interesting things to do, but frankly my time is more
valuable to me than to spend it yanking chains.

I consider it entertainment. Better fun and more productive than
watching the crap on TV.

On 3/8/2014 4:53 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

I'm on the DNC list.

Being on the DNC list does not protect you from robocallers based
outside the US, as they are not subject to US laws. AFAIK.

On 08 Mar 2014, Ken Springer wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

I take a different tack on spammers. That's assuming I'm getting
lot of them.

If I don't hear a real voice, or what I believe is a real vs.
recorded voice, I simply hang up. LOL

That's pretty much what I do, except that I don't answer the phone in
the first place unless I recognize the caller ID, and if I do
accidentally pick one of them up, I only play the game if I'm in the
mood (which is almost never.) Hanging up is the best tactic at that
point, but I suspect that you've already validated your number just by
picking up the receiver.

Nil wrote:

On 07 Mar 2014, VanguardLH wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

I either interrrupt and mute them them and put the phone aside so
they're hanging on the line getting nuisanced like they nuisanced
me, or I keep saying "Hello" or "Anyone there" while they're
talking to pretend I can't hear them but I wait until they start
to get up to speed in their script for when to interrupt.

I have a buddy that has a script ready so while the telemarketer
is talking he interrupts with "Yes, that sounds interesting and
I'd like to know more but I'd like to ask you something. Have you
heard about the power of Jesus?" The telemarketer tries to get
back to his script but my buddy just keeps responding with canned
statements about Jesus Saves, salvation through Jesus, and so on.
He promises to send a bible so asks for a postal mailing address.
Eventually they just hang up on him. Of course, that means not
having anything else to do at the time and wanting to "play" the
telemarketer. To be honest, I think he got the idea from some
comediaine's skit.

I used to try to mess with them like that, figuring that any time of
theirs I waste, the worse off they are. I've since come to the
conclusion that they don't care, they'll hang up on me the moment their
attempt at pushing through their script seems stymied. In order to
really get them, I'd have to hang in there much longer than it's worth
to me. Also, just by answering the phone and talking, my number is now
tagged as valid and is likely to be re-used and sold. So now I just
don't answer any calls where I don't recognize the caller ID. I hate
that it's come to this, but it's self-defense.

In the rare case that I do accidentally answer their call and I feel
like making a game of it, I'll pick up some handy nearly printed page,
maybe a book or newspaper, or best of all would be a technical paper
full of jargon or legalese. Then I'll answer their question with random
sentences from the paper, spoken in a cadence that they would expect.
In other words, my answer will be completely irrelevant to the topic,
but it's still a good sentence. I might mumble it a little bit to to
make them even more confused about what they're hearing. This can
actually go on pretty long. If I started out being abusive or obviously
trying to change the subject they'll hang right up, but if I truly
confuse them, they might hang on longer, thinking they've got a real
idiot on the line.

Yeah, sometimes they're aware they're being yanked. So keep them
thinking you're intent on getting the connected with whomever they said
they were calling. If they mention a name, I say "Hold on, I'll get
him/her" and put them on mute/hold while reading another post here or do
something else for a minute. I come back with "Who did you want? Oh
yeah, hold on". Repeat the delay. Come back "Yes, this is give a
different name. Oh, no, that's not me, hold on". Rather than just
have them on hold indefinitely until they choose to hangup, keep them
thinking you're trying to get the person they said they're trying to
call. Sometimes I like to end the game myself instead of them hanging
up so I come back a last time to say, "so-and-so just left to
whatever. Sorry for making you wait. Bye." Then I hangup
immediately without waiting for a response.

There's lots of ways to play the stall-the-telemarketer game.

Zaky Waky wrote:

Wow! a thread centered on BillW50 about civility, rudeness and
abrasiveness. Interesting where the "flow" moves the thread.

Yes, we others decided to go off-topic to make something worthwile out
of your flame thread.

On 3/8/2014 4:55 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
Alek Trishan wrote:

Those are all very interesting things to do, but frankly my time is more
valuable to me than to spend it yanking chains.

I consider it entertainment. Better fun and more productive than
watching the crap on TV.


You're watching the wrong stuff! :-)

What's productive about yanking chains?

Alek Trishan wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

I'm on the DNC list.

Being on the DNC list does not protect you from robocallers based
outside the US, as they are not subject to US laws. AFAIK.

Yep, US laws often are not enforceable in non-reciprocal countries.
Same for the CAN-SPAM law, too.

Alek Trishan wrote:

On 3/8/2014 4:55 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
Alek Trishan wrote:

Those are all very interesting things to do, but frankly my time is more
valuable to me than to spend it yanking chains.

I consider it entertainment. Better fun and more productive than
watching the crap on TV.


You're watching the wrong stuff! :-)

What's the good stuff? The History channel isn't about history anymore.
The SciFi channel isn't scifi anymore. Anything news can be had faster
via Internet than waiting for a scheduled news show on TV. You think
"Housewives something" is good stuff? I've seen all the good movies
their show over and over and really don't care to see them again. Maybe
you pay for the premium channels. I don't waste my money there.

So, what's to "good stuff" that has educational or information value
greater than the typical entertainment crap that is better than getting
entertained by delaying or gaming a telemarketer?

What's productive about yanking chains?

Reasons already covered in other replies of mine.