Why Linux On Desktop Failed: A Discussion With Mark Shuttleworth

On 9/13/19 8:12 PM, T wrote:
On 9/13/19 7:22 PM, Snit wrote:
On 9/13/19 7:11 PM, T wrote:
On 9/12/19 11:50 AM, Snit wrote:
On 9/12/19 10:06 AM, chrisv wrote:
T wrote:

(snip)

What, you just copy and paste the same stuff that your wrote earlier?

Here's my response.




In short: you think for people who have amazingly simple needs, not
even using things as common and basic as tax and personal finance
apps, or other common programs, Linux is a fine choice.

That is you damning with faint praise.

Folk with these simple need might as well get a tablet.

True enough. I have not worked much with the newer ones, but many are
pretty damned powerful.


They have the reputation of being "toy" computers, but
they have come into their own right.Â* They are
perfect for the eMail and surf only customers.

And even basic word processing, spread sheets, and the like. Apple's
Pages and Numbers, for example, are really good. I have been using
Google Docs recently and am surprised how much is "missing" -- and the
Apple ones have native apps.

I have a customer that got a bunch of free ones for signing
up for a particular cell phone service.Â* He finally let me
look up for him a decent Samsung (fastest I could find).
Now they are happy again.Â*Â* Chuckle, you get what you pay for.

I wish we could come up with a decent tablet running Fedora,
it would cut to zero all the spying.



--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 9/13/2019 6:02 PM, TheRealFlatfish wrote:
On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 17:50:30 -0600, AnonLinuxUser wrote:

On 9/13/2019 7:23 AM, Rabid Rogue wrote:
On 2019-09-12 11:19 p.m., AnonLinuxUser wrote:
On 9/12/2019 6:13 PM, Rabid Rogue wrote:
On 2019-09-12 5:31 p.m., Charlie Tuna wrote:
In article ,
lid says...

Wingnut wrote:
Why Linux On Desktop Failed: A Discussion With Mark Shuttleworth

Let me know when there's a transcript available; I don't 'do' video
interviews.

That recent Shuttleworth interview on Kubernetes had a transcript.

What's the matter, can't you get Linux to play the video?
Too bad for you.

That's an unfair question. To be honest, Linux plays more video formats
out of the box than any other operating system even if VLC isn't
pre-installed. If it doesn't play the video, it gives you the option to
install the codec which WILL play it.


I've ran into that particular situation, and it never did say what was
wrong or where to get the necessary libs or codecs.
OpenSuse has a one-click install of VLC that does work.

I used OpenSuse a few times and I believe that, out of the box, it only
includes software which is certified to be free. Even though most codecs
now have free versions which work quite well, it's quite possible that
OpenSuse, for some reason, doesn't make them available to the user
unless they add a repository here and there. It's not my favorite
distribution to say the least.


I suppose not. But just a little digging around on the net and I did
find the one-click-install fairly fast... which did work. Must be that
the digital rights thing is the road block for those in the U.S.

SuSE used to have a checkbox that you could tick and it would install
all the "extra stuff", like Nvidia drivers, CODECS and so forth.

It's been years since I have used Linux so things might have changed.

OpenSuse still has the check mark. The real big problem for me is that
I bought (or I'd say been given) a new iMac with the retina display.
It's ok, but when I try to run Linux on a divided up hard drive, the
display is very small and none of the linux distros, except one
(OpenSuse), would scale properly. Some of the Icons for the desktop
would scale, but none of the apps internal icons wouldn't scale, leaving
a hard to read symbol in the app.
May have to sell this iMac and get an HP laptop.
Been busy tho this time of year at the grain elevators and not much time
for anything else. That'll taper off in a couple of weeks.

On 9/13/19 9:39 PM, Snit wrote:
On 9/13/19 8:17 PM, T wrote:
On 9/13/19 7:24 PM, Snit wrote:
I used to work for Intuit supporting Quicken and TurboTax (or
training those who did). Yes, they and QuickBooks are very common.

I used to work for Intuit supporting Quicken and TurboTax (or
training those who did). Yes, they and QuickBooks are very common.

OH DUDE!!!

It has its pros and cons. For my main desktop I prefer macOS, but
there areÂ*manyÂ*placesÂ*whereÂ*LinuxÂ*isÂ*aÂ*greatÂ*cho ice.Â*NoÂ*argumentÂ*here.

Either one kicks Windows ass.Â* But without the programs "here
is a quarter, go tell it to someone that cares".Â* Mac has a
version of Quick Books, but it is bug riddled to death.


I never did much with QuickBooks, but I do know the Mac and Windows
versions of Quicken were very different. The Windows version had a lot
more features but also a very flaky data file that was insanely hard to
deal with when it went belly up. And it did that a lot.

Now that was back in 2000 and before... so things could have changed a
lot since then.


Quick books is still flaky. What the customer sees is
great. What is in the back end, well, I am not suppose
to cuss.

And their tech support, oh holy [I am trying to stop cussing]

The idea that no gentleman ever swears is all wrong. He
can swear and still be a gentleman, if he does it in a
nice and benevolent and affectionate way.
--Mark Twain - Private and Public Morals speech, 1906

On 9/13/19 9:40 PM, Snit wrote:
And even basic word processing, spread sheets, and the like. Apple's
Pages and Numbers, for example, are really good. I have been using
Google Docs recently and am surprised how much is "missing" -- and the
AppleÂ*onesÂ*haveÂ*nativeÂ*apps.

I have a customer that adores them too. Safari sucks, but you
can run Firefox and Brave, so does not matter.

You an also run Libre Office, but those knuckleheads don't
seem to care about intuitive ease of use. I can't get anyone
to (keep) use(ing) it.

But for small business, there always seems to be at least one or
more killer app that does Linux and Apple in.

All the Apple shops I have seen, use both Apple and Windows
together. They proudly call themselves Apple shops, but they
are not. They are hybrid shops. Which is okay. It is
what works for your business.

By the way, who came up with the bright idea to run Point
of Sales machines that take credit card ON WINDOWS!
You want (credit card) security, DON'T USE WINDOWS !!!!

T wrote:

Quick books is still flaky.Â* What the customer sees is Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* great.
^^^^^^^^^
In the blank is the word "sorta" ?

What is in the back end, well, I am not suppose
to cuss.

Flaky is a frigg'n understatement. Not too bad if you have it running as
a standalone single-system setup, but a multi-user to server setup is
pure garbage. Since there are so many new web-based options that even
Intuit is transitioning toward for small business which is OS agnostic
the MUST have Windows client is not so mandatory.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

In article , Rabid Rogue
wrote:


That's an unfair question. To be honest, Linux plays more video formats
out of the box than any other operating system even if VLC isn't
pre-installed.

no it definitely does not.

This is a clear lie on your part and I imagine that it comes from your
general and habitual ignorance. Install Linux Mint and it will play
everything; install something like Trisquel which is fully free and it
might not play everything, but it will install free codecs that will.

it won't play everything.

It won't play Blu-Ray and encrypted DVD (though that's very easy to
remedy), that's about it. However, Windows won't play those two media
types either.

it won't play more than just those, and physical media isn't the issue
anyway.

platforms used for creating video, namely mac and windows, have the
widest support of formats for obvious reasons.

Only after software and codecs have been purchased and installed. Once
again, I'm talking about the OUT OF THE BOX experience.

yep, out of the box, and one of many reasons why creative professionals
choose windows and particularly mac over linux.

If it doesn't play the video, it gives you the option to
install the codec which WILL play it.

so much for more video formats, and that's the same for other oses.

Windows 10 will not play h.265 out of the box unless you _purchase_ the
codec but I imagine you didn't know that.

what you clearly do *not* know is that macs have h.265 support in the
os itself and can play *and* encode h.265 out of the box without any
additional software, and third party apps do not need to do anything
special either.

There are lesser-known and lesser-used codecs that Mac OS will not run
out of the box.

not as many as on other platforms.

If it includes h.265 support, that's great since it's
very popular as a result of its tiny file size and excellent quality
(identical to h.264 as far as I can tell). However, will your beloved
play the obscure file encoded in Theora the way that Linux will
successfully do? I doubt it.

obscure enough that nobody cares.

You can download VLC and get
the same functionality but that applies to Linux as well. Even without
VLC though, the bundled video players like Dragon or Totem will
automatically download the codecs whereas something like Movies & TV or
Windows Media Player will only play sound and fart when it comes to
playing the video.

no need for vlc, and needing to download a codec means it *doesn't*
play everything.

Install Linux Mint and you will play every imaginable video _without_
needing to install a codec. I only clarified my statement in case
someone bothered to mention that Fedora, Trisquel, PureOS or OpenSuse
doesn't play everything out of the box.

not true.

https://www.infoworld.com/article/30...ont-include-mu
ltimedia-codecs.html
Linux Mint is one of the most popular desktop distributions around.
And one of its most appealing features was that it shipped with
multimedia codecs. But that practice will end with Linux Mint 18,
and users will have to install the codecs themselves.

In article , F. Russell
wrote:


GNU/Linux relies basically on ffmpeg or libav for video
compression/decompression,
and each contains every codec "out of the box."

Because of patent concerns, however, some distros may omit some
codecs but others may not.

But GNU/Linux is able, out of the box, to handle it all.

not all, and since it's ffmpeg and libav, not that well.

Furthermore, the FOSS libraries of ffmpeg or libav also power much
of Winblows/Apple software.

no, and for apple, many formats are done in hardware.

In article , wrote:


Folk with these simple need might as well get a tablet.

True enough. I have not worked much with the newer ones, but many are
pretty damned powerful.


They have the reputation of being "toy" computers, but
they have come into their own right. They are
perfect for the eMail and surf only customers.

tablets can do *much* more than that.

On 9/13/19 11:58 PM, T wrote:
On 9/13/19 9:40 PM, Snit wrote:
And even basic word processing, spread sheets, and the like. Apple's
Pages and Numbers, for example, are really good. I have been using
Google Docs recently and am surprised how much is "missing" -- and the
AppleÂ*onesÂ*haveÂ*nativeÂ*apps.

I have a customer that adores them too.Â* Safari sucks, but you
can run Firefox and Brave, so does not matter.

I mostly use Safari -- but there are some sites which work better with
Chrome. One of the things I like about Safari is the "Develop" menu
which has built in Open Page With [List of Browsers].

You an also run Libre Office, but those knuckleheads don't
seem to care about intuitive ease of use.Â* I can't get anyone
to (keep) use(ing) it.

I have moved a few clients to it through the years -- one who was using
old Word Perfect files and needed a way to read them. LO does a pretty
good job there. Others just want a way to open MS Office docs. My dad is
actually like that, though his needs are very light. He rarely authors
documents but when he gets an MS Office document he can usually read it.

Current MS Office allows you to read for free -- so I suppose I could
move him to that, but just never been worth it.

But for small business, there always seems to be at least one or
more killer app that does Linux and Apple in.

In many cases true... though I know a number of small businesses that
run on Macs. My dentist does, for example. He is very much a Mac
die-hard. My optometrist used to run on Linux but moved to Windows.

All the Apple shops I have seen, use both Apple and Windows
together.Â* They proudly call themselves Apple shops, but they
are not. They are hybrid shops.Â* Which is okay.Â* It is
what works for your business.

Right. Just like until not long ago I was a hybrid house -- my media
machine ran on Linux.

When I ran schools I actively worked to get Mac, Windows, and Linux so
students could be exposed to all three.

By the way, who came up with the bright idea to run Point
of Sales machines that take credit card ON WINDOWS!
You want (credit card) security, DON'T USE WINDOWS !!!!

Pretty much.


--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Il 13/09/19 20:05, chrisv ha scritto:
Soviet_Mario wrote:

again the variety is a strong enemy.

It is not. Variety is an asset.

I'm not gonna deny this point in general (variety is
resilience under the attack of problems) but I don't think
here is much relevant, as here we hope to find solutions
rather than sources of problems.
So a "defensive" stance is a problem in itself, a symptom
that we are in a unhealthy environment.


There are in the FOSS
too many variants, each rather limited, and versatile as a
whole, which need a lot of exploration just to be
discovered, as nobody makes them known out of the official
distro repository.

I don't think that anyone denies that some people, "newbies" in
particular, would like less variety, more "standardization". This is
true in many markets.


I think the problem is not variety in itself, but
fragmentation of resources which prevent the aggregation of
a "critical mass" of skill necessary to reach a high quality
of the software. Complex, serious software is too difficult
for half a dozen heads. Simple is not a problem.


However, we can't forget that, for many people, that would not work.
Many people benefit from the more customized, optimized environment
that FOSS allows.

I was not referring to the OS actually, but to big client sw.
Some FOSS are big enough to be state-of-the-art (Libre
Office, Mozilla, and others). But there are a lot of
programs backed by a few developers which never reach true
maturity in the sense the common user mean.

If it weren't for these advantages, they may as
well be using Windows.


Many Windows users, despite being deeply unsatisfied by
windows in itself, find it difficult to replace the external
software, as the SW park there is very "mature". Substandard
programs are wiped out by fierce competitors. There is not
much a concept like "fork", but viability of solutions.
Obviously this has also MANY drawback : the need to pay it's
first. The interoperability is another. When one patent some
sw able to sth very well, it tend to close its solution.


Just because some people would like less choice, it doesn't mean that
there is too much choice. Some people would like even more!

I agree, the problem is not the choice in itself, but the
fact it very often goes at the expense of quality.

tens/hundreds of programs doing more or less the same thing,
none doing it perfectly, insted of "some" very complete
doing it very well.

This require a further "manual" step of aggregation, often
file format conversion and so. A steep learning curve in
other words.





--
1) Resistere, resistere, resistere.
2) Se tutti pagano le tasse, le tasse le pagano tutti
Soviet_Mario - (aka Gatto_Vizzato)

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 08:59:05 -0700, Snit wrote:

On 9/13/19 11:58 PM, T wrote:
On 9/13/19 9:40 PM, Snit wrote:
And even basic word processing, spread sheets, and the like. Apple's
Pages and Numbers, for example, are really good. I have been using
Google Docs recently and am surprised how much is "missing" -- and the
Apple*ones*have*native*apps.

I have a customer that adores them too.* Safari sucks, but you
can run Firefox and Brave, so does not matter.

I mostly use Safari -- but there are some sites which work better with
Chrome. One of the things I like about Safari is the "Develop" menu
which has built in Open Page With [List of Browsers].

You an also run Libre Office, but those knuckleheads don't
seem to care about intuitive ease of use.* I can't get anyone
to (keep) use(ing) it.

I have moved a few clients to it through the years -- one who was using
old Word Perfect files and needed a way to read them. LO does a pretty
good job there. Others just want a way to open MS Office docs. My dad is
actually like that, though his needs are very light. He rarely authors
documents but when he gets an MS Office document he can usually read it.

Current MS Office allows you to read for free -- so I suppose I could
move him to that, but just never been worth it.

But for small business, there always seems to be at least one or
more killer app that does Linux and Apple in.

In many cases true... though I know a number of small businesses that
run on Macs. My dentist does, for example. He is very much a Mac
die-hard. My optometrist used to run on Linux but moved to Windows.

All the Apple shops I have seen, use both Apple and Windows
together.* They proudly call themselves Apple shops, but they
are not. They are hybrid shops.* Which is okay.* It is
what works for your business.

Right. Just like until not long ago I was a hybrid house -- my media
machine ran on Linux.

When I ran schools I actively worked to get Mac, Windows, and Linux so
students could be exposed to all three.

By the way, who came up with the bright idea to run Point
of Sales machines that take credit card ON WINDOWS!
You want (credit card) security, DON'T USE WINDOWS !!!!

Pretty much.

When I was recently in the hospital it was all Macs and iPads.
I have no idea what the back end was but the doctors, nurses and
technicians all carried iPads with them.
It was the same thing when I was in physical therapy.

On 2019-09-14, Soviet_Mario wrote:
Il 13/09/19 20:05, chrisv ha scritto:
Soviet_Mario wrote:

again the variety is a strong enemy.

It is not. Variety is an asset.

I'm not gonna deny this point in general (variety is
resilience under the attack of problems) but I don't think
here is much relevant, as here we hope to find solutions
rather than sources of problems.
So a "defensive" stance is a problem in itself, a symptom
that we are in a unhealthy environment.


There are in the FOSS
too many variants, each rather limited, and versatile as a
whole, which need a lot of exploration just to be
discovered, as nobody makes them known out of the official
distro repository.

I don't think that anyone denies that some people, "newbies" in
particular, would like less variety, more "standardization". This is
true in many markets.


I think the problem is not variety in itself, but
fragmentation of resources which prevent the aggregation of
a "critical mass" of skill necessary to reach a high quality
of the software. Complex, serious software is too difficult
for half a dozen heads. Simple is not a problem.

Problem is that those "resources" does not work for single entity...
they are individuals with free will and does not listen single entity,
thanks god. This is why Linux is so superior to companies that make
products to cell.
Linux does not compete as it does not belong to anyone. Linux is for all
people that can appretitate freedom...


--
press any key to continue or any other to quit...
U ni�emu ja ne uživam kao u svom statusu INVALIDA -- Zli Zec
Na divljem zapadu i nije bilo tako puno nasilja, upravo zato jer su svi
bili naoruzani. -- Mladen Gogala

On 9/13/19 11:51 PM, T wrote:
On 9/13/19 9:39 PM, Snit wrote:
On 9/13/19 8:17 PM, T wrote:
On 9/13/19 7:24 PM, Snit wrote:
I used to work for Intuit supporting Quicken and TurboTax (or
training those who did). Yes, they and QuickBooks are very common.

I used to work for Intuit supporting Quicken and TurboTax (or
training those who did). Yes, they and QuickBooks are very common.

OH DUDE!!!

It has its pros and cons. For my main desktop I prefer macOS, but
there areÂ*manyÂ*placesÂ*whereÂ*LinuxÂ*isÂ*aÂ*greatÂ*cho ice.Â*NoÂ*argumentÂ*here.

Either one kicks Windows ass.Â* But without the programs "here
is a quarter, go tell it to someone that cares".Â* Mac has a
version of Quick Books, but it is bug riddled to death.


I never did much with QuickBooks, but I do know the Mac and Windows
versions of Quicken were very different. The Windows version had a lot
more features but also a very flaky data file that was insanely hard
to deal with when it went belly up. And it did that a lot.

Now that was back in 2000 and before... so things could have changed a
lot since then.


Quick books is still flaky.Â* What the customer sees is Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* great.
What is in the back end, well, I am not suppose
to cuss.

And their tech support, oh holy [I am trying to stop cussing]

Â*Â*Â*Â* The idea that no gentleman ever swears is all wrong. He
Â*Â*Â*Â* can swear and still be a gentleman, if he does it in a
Â*Â*Â*Â* nice and benevolent and affectionate way.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* --Mark TwainÂ* - Private and Public Morals speech, 1906

I am sure they no longer use the same tools they did when I was there,
but their tech support tools were idiotic. They had a database where
those on the floor could look up issues... makes sense. BUT, I ended up
doing some work with folks who ran that database and they gave me the
raw data. I knew entries for those on the phones were cut off if too
long (more than 1023 character?... don't recall) but when I got the raw
data I found that if the data was not entered with the correct "tags" it
COULD NOT be found by their system... and this was about 1/4 of all entries.

I managed to get for my team the raw data each day and made my own
database from the oh-so-amazingly-powerful File Maker Pro. Took me a
while to import the data but then ran the copy on my system as a server
and had my team be able to tap into it. Our call times went down, our
customer satisfaction scores went up, etc. Makes a big difference when
the techs have access to ALL the data and the searches are easy (or at
least easier... my system was not without its quirks).

When I was a trainer I took over the internal training site (ran it on a
First Class Server). I made it open not just to those in training but to
those on the floor (duh, seems a no-brainer, though it does mean more
things to check on the floor). It handled the tech, someone else handled
the style guide, and I wrote the OS training materials while others
handled the Intuit-specific training content.

When I left I was part of the team working on a replacement for the all
of these... they were combining the customer tracker tool and the issue
tracker tool (and just killed the training site... NO replacement?!?!).
And the tool they were working on SUCKED. The company they were using to
develop this tool was utterly clueless on the basics of UIs. Never saw
if it was completed or how good or bad it was when it was done... but if
they moved to that it was not likely a good thing.


--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 2019-09-13 9:36 p.m., Paul wrote:
Rabid Rogue wrote:
On 2019-09-13 7:45 p.m., AnonLinuxUser wrote:
On 9/13/2019 7:04 AM, Rabid Rogue wrote:
On 2019-09-12 8:15 p.m., nospam wrote:
In article , Rabid Rogue
wrote:

Why Linux On Desktop Failed: A Discussion With Mark Shuttleworth
Let me know when there's a transcript available; I don't 'do' video
interviews.

That recent Shuttleworth interview on Kubernetes had a transcript.
What's the matter, can't you get Linux to play the video?
Too bad for you.
That's an unfair question. To be honest, Linux plays more video
formats
out of the box than any other operating system even if VLC isn't
pre-installed.
no it definitely does not.
This is a clear lie on your part and I imagine that it comes from your
general and habitual ignorance. Install Linux Mint and it will play
everything; install something like Trisquel which is fully free and it
might not play everything, but it will install free codecs that will.

If it doesn't play the video, it gives you the option to
install the codec which WILL play it.
so much for more video formats, and that's the same for other oses.
Windows 10 will not play h.265 out of the box unless you _purchase_ the
codec but I imagine you didn't know that. You can download VLC and get
the same functionality but that applies to Linux as well. Even without
VLC though, the bundled video players like Dragon or Totem will
automatically download the codecs whereas something like Movies & TV or
Windows Media Player will only play sound and fart when it comes to
playing the video.

That may depend on what country you are in.
In the U.S. I've tried various distros and Dragon and Totem won't
download what you need.
On the other hand, OpenSuse has a one-click install of VLC and it does
download the libs and codecs.Â* Of course OpenSuse is out of Germany so
it may well do it properly.Â* The U.S. versions of video players have the
same problem... due to some kind of rights.

I doubt that anyone who installs Linux on their own actually care that
they might be breaking the law by installing an MP3 codec. To be honest,
I don't think Ubuntu should even offer that warning anymore considering
support for those codecs is no longer external but included in ffmpeg
like I mentioned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3#Li...nd_legislation

Â*Â* "became patent-free in the United States on 16 April 2017"

Â*Â* "As a result, many free and open-source software projects, such
Â*Â*Â* as the Fedora operating system, have decided to start shipping
Â*Â*Â* MP3 support by default, and users will no longer have to resort
Â*Â*Â* to installing unofficial packages maintained by third party
Â*Â*Â* software repositories for MP3 playback or encoding."

I was already aware of that. What I'm suggesting is that support for
some codecs in Linux are subject to the law if they rely on the support
from third-parties. However, in including the support in ffmpeg and not
requiring third-party support, I think that it circumvents some of the
legal restrictions. I remember hearing or reading about this but it's
possible that I'm off on this.


--
Your friendly neighborhood Rabid Rogue

On 9/14/19 9:02 AM, TheRealFlatfish wrote:
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 08:59:05 -0700, Snit wrote:

On 9/13/19 11:58 PM, T wrote:
On 9/13/19 9:40 PM, Snit wrote:
And even basic word processing, spread sheets, and the like. Apple's
Pages and Numbers, for example, are really good. I have been using
Google Docs recently and am surprised how much is "missing" -- and the
AppleÂ*onesÂ*haveÂ*nativeÂ*apps.

I have a customer that adores them too.Â* Safari sucks, but you
can run Firefox and Brave, so does not matter.

I mostly use Safari -- but there are some sites which work better with
Chrome. One of the things I like about Safari is the "Develop" menu
which has built in Open Page With [List of Browsers].

You an also run Libre Office, but those knuckleheads don't
seem to care about intuitive ease of use.Â* I can't get anyone
to (keep) use(ing) it.

I have moved a few clients to it through the years -- one who was using
old Word Perfect files and needed a way to read them. LO does a pretty
good job there. Others just want a way to open MS Office docs. My dad is
actually like that, though his needs are very light. He rarely authors
documents but when he gets an MS Office document he can usually read it.

Current MS Office allows you to read for free -- so I suppose I could
move him to that, but just never been worth it.

But for small business, there always seems to be at least one or
more killer app that does Linux and Apple in.

In many cases true... though I know a number of small businesses that
run on Macs. My dentist does, for example. He is very much a Mac
die-hard. My optometrist used to run on Linux but moved to Windows.

All the Apple shops I have seen, use both Apple and Windows
together.Â* They proudly call themselves Apple shops, but they
are not. They are hybrid shops.Â* Which is okay.Â* It is
what works for your business.

Right. Just like until not long ago I was a hybrid house -- my media
machine ran on Linux.

When I ran schools I actively worked to get Mac, Windows, and Linux so
students could be exposed to all three.

By the way, who came up with the bright idea to run Point
of Sales machines that take credit card ON WINDOWS!
You want (credit card) security, DON'T USE WINDOWS !!!!

Pretty much.

When I was recently in the hospital it was all Macs and iPads.
I have no idea what the back end was but the doctors, nurses and
technicians all carried iPads with them.
It was the same thing when I was in physical therapy.


I know a lot of hospitals use iPads. They are excellent portable computers.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.