O.T. HD, PSU review:

Your not going to believe this but
the red indicator on the APC came on.

So looks like I'll have to try and repair the socket
(I'm not going to like this)

1. turn off power to the room so I won't get shocked

2. see if it's just some loose screws that need tightening.

3. restore power and check APC

Anything else?

Robert

I'm trying to follow you in cables etc.
So do I have enough etc. I wish they would
use color cables or at least make an option
to choose either black or colored.

I'm still iffy on which cables to remove/replace.

Since I'm not using the HD in the 8500
maybe I should remove it and put it in
the Startech external case and see what
it is?

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
I'm trying to follow you in cables etc.
So do I have enough etc. I wish they would
use color cables or at least make an option
to choose either black or colored.

I'm still iffy on which cables to remove/replace.

Since I'm not using the HD in the 8500
maybe I should remove it and put it in
the Startech external case and see what
it is?

Robert

You can remove it from the computer, but
it still might require working with the
cabling on the next drive to get it clear
of the rack.

Sometimes the cables on one drive, can prevent
the other drive from being worked loose.

Paul

Mark Twain wrote:
Your not going to believe this but
the red indicator on the APC came on.

So looks like I'll have to try and repair the socket
(I'm not going to like this)

1. turn off power to the room so I won't get shocked

2. see if it's just some loose screws that need tightening.

3. restore power and check APC

Anything else?

Robert


No, your first step is the outlet tester.

First gather information, then act.

Paul

My fault,.. we were looking at old
images when we did a clone or something.
I now remember borrowing the data cable
from the 780 although I still can't remember
what we were doing.

I know because I opened up the 8500 to remove
the HD and it wasn't there.

Since I had it opened I wanted to follow
which wires that came out of the PSU.
We already identified the one 4x8 (the
brown and black wiring) and the PWR1,.

I found the other (the black and yellow
wiring) It was just tucked under
the optical drive.

http://i68.tinypic.com/k19tti.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/1538qp1.jpg

http://i67.tinypic.com/i6vyxg.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/2cffhc2.jpg

What do you think?

Robert

OK,.. sounds good.

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
My fault,.. we were looking at old
images when we did a clone or something.
I now remember borrowing the data cable
from the 780 although I still can't remember
what we were doing.

I know because I opened up the 8500 to remove
the HD and it wasn't there.

Since I had it opened I wanted to follow
which wires that came out of the PSU.
We already identified the one 4x8 (the
brown and black wiring) and the PWR1,.

I found the other (the black and yellow
wiring) It was just tucked under
the optical drive.

http://i68.tinypic.com/k19tti.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/1538qp1.jpg The two 2x3 are for PCI Express video

http://i67.tinypic.com/i6vyxg.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/2cffhc2.jpg

What do you think?

Robert

I took your picture and circled a few things.

https://i.postimg.cc/jqkspD61/the-pc...connectors.jpg

The loose pair of connectors are for PCI Express
video cards. Some video cards take a 2x3 plus
a 2x4, and the video card can use a total of
several hundred watts. The top end of the
gamer cards are 180W and 250W for example.
And it takes quite a few yellow wires (and
pins) to safely carry the necessary current
for that.

When your video card has no "Aux" connectors on
it, the card is limited to 75W. And ideally,
a little less than that perhaps. Pretty well
all the video cards I've owned, were the low
power ones (the HD6450 was something like
3 watts at idle, and 15 watts max).

On your new power supply, you won't be using
the 2x3 PCI Express connectors, and perhaps
that cable can stay in the cardboard box.
Whereas on the old supply, the cable was captive,
and has to remain curled up somewhere in the
computer case.

Paul

..

On your new power supply, you won't be using
the 2x3 PCI Express connectors, and perhaps
that cable can stay in the cardboard box.
Whereas on the old supply, the cable was captive,
and has to remain curled up somewhere in the
computer case.

Paul


I see I have to provide a separate 24 pin cable
from the PSU to the HD since it's not captive.

I still have one 4x8 captive set to account
for or do I? I still can't find any plug that
looks like that other than the brown/black you
found.

Which if any of the modular connections would
I be using? SATA/Molex, PCI-E ? However you said
I wouldn't be using the PCI because my video card
doesn't support it.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817151203


Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
.
On your new power supply, you won't be using
the 2x3 PCI Express connectors, and perhaps
that cable can stay in the cardboard box.
Whereas on the old supply, the cable was captive,
and has to remain curled up somewhere in the
computer case.

Paul


I see I have to provide a separate 24 pin cable
from the PSU to the HD since it's not captive.

No, your new power supply is semi-modular. The
"main" connector on your new supply is a 24 pin.
And you'll be using that on the 24 pin on the motherboard.

The way this works, is the connector is a 20+4. There
are two sections. You hold the sections side-by-side
while plugging in the 20+4.

If you had a much older motherboard (like the 8200 RAMBUS
board), it would have had a 20 pin connector. The
new supply could be plugged in, by plugging in just
the 2o pin section and leaving the "+ 4" portion dangling.

Playtool has a picture of the 20+4 in its various
disguises. Modern supplies today aren't quite as
fancy as the connector in the picture. This one uses
metal "hooks" to join the two sections. The lower
left of this picture, is the way you'll want to arrange
yours before plugging it into the 24 pin motherboard site.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucon...all20plus4.jpg

That cable is a captive one, and comes out through the
grommet hole with the other captive cables.


I still have one 4x8 captive set to account
for or do I? I still can't find any plug that
looks like that other than the brown/black you
found.

You are supposed to have one cable with a couple
2x2 connectors that when combined, makes a 2x4.

___ ___ ___ ___
| | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | |
\_/ --- \_/ \_/
___ ___ ___ ___
| | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | |
--- \_/ \_/ \_/

\_________/
|
Use this one


Which if any of the modular connections would
I be using? SATA/Molex, PCI-E ? However you said
I wouldn't be using the PCI because my video card
doesn't support it.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817151203


Robert

You will be using SATA4, SATA2, MOLEX3+FloppyAdapter
as your cables.

The PCI Express modular stays in the cardboard box.

You are using almost all of them, but the reason
for using them is "routing convenience". For
example, to connect the floppy on the one machine,
requires using the Molex, and putting the Molex to Floppy
adapter on the end of it.

Paul

These cables are confusing me. I know of course
where the main cable goes,. it's pretty hard not
to miss that, I've already tried it on the 780
but all the other cables I'm not understanding
what they are.

As your link shows what I was referring to with
the separate cabling captive but mind doesn't have
that, so I'll have to use one of the cables and plug
it into the PSU, correct? I just don't have your level
of knowledge of what goes where although I'm trying to
keep up.

As far as the red light , do you think I have a bad
outlet maybe? I'll wait for the testor of course.

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
These cables are confusing me. I know of course
where the main cable goes,. it's pretty hard not
to miss that, I've already tried it on the 780
but all the other cables I'm not understanding
what they are.

As your link shows what I was referring to with
the separate cabling captive but mind doesn't have
that, so I'll have to use one of the cables and plug
it into the PSU, correct? I just don't have your level
of knowledge of what goes where although I'm trying to
keep up.

As far as the red light , do you think I have a bad
outlet maybe? I'll wait for the testor of course.

Robert

The connectors have a variety of shapes, to help guide
you on which one to install.

There aren't really all that many connectors to install.

You can make a system drawing or grocery list if you want:

motherboard - main 24 power, ATX12V 2x2 power
optical drive - SATA power (use one cable for one side of PC)
hard drive - SATA power (use second cable for other side of PC)
floppy - use Molex power with Molex to floppy adapter on end
video card - None

By making a list of system components, you can
break down the problem into pieces, and solve
each piece, one at a time.

On the PC that has two hard drive slots, the "chained" SATA
on the SATA cable, can cover the two hard drives (if
present). That was the example I made in one of my
pictures. You tend to have the one HDD in the machine,
so you won't necessarily need to hook up the second.

For SATA drives, you need enough data cables. Perhaps
you have two SATA data cables, out of the four "spigots"
on the motherboard surface. Picking up a couple
more SATA data would help cover situations where you
want to use an additional device of some kind. It's not
absolutely necessary to solve that today, but some time
if you're ordering a few items for some other purpose, you
can include one additional SATA data. You pick a type
(straight or right angle) that best covers the situation.
The straight end might go into the motherboard, an
angled one might cover the drive end. It depends on
the situation, whether a straight one for the hard
drive would stick out too much, versus the angled
one being a bit harder to remove when you need to
remove it.

So rather than starting off confused, why not
make a "grocery list" of the project and break the
problem down into pieces ?

Part of the problem, is looking at the "jumble" of
cables in the main collection. Remember that it's
the devices that need power. You don't need to hook
up every cable. Only the cables needed to power devices
will be hooked up, leaving the other cables unused
and "coiled up somehow" to stay out of the way.

Generally, I don't like to put a lot of stress on
the cables if I can help it. And that's one of the
challenges with any PSU changeout, is figuring what
to do with the unneeded cables. In my newest build,
some of the cables "rest" in a 5.25" bay, and that
takes the weight off the PSU grommet area. Just about
every case I have here, has a lack of cable management.
The case with the metal bar that runs across the
case as a strength member, that bar is handy for
hooking up a nylon tie, to loosely hold wire.

Part of the value of this site, and the detailed photos,
is to see how they've tried to arrange the connectors
so you can't plug them into the wrong holes. This is a
good guide for anyone new to the task, as an "explainer"
for what you're holding in your hand when you pull the
PSU out of the new box.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucon...onnectors.html

Start with the grocery list, make a list of "devices"
in the PC, and organize your thoughts that way. Just like
if you were planning a plumbing job, you had a water
heater, a kitchen sink and a bathroom sink. You know
all three need to be connected so you can have hot
water on each sink. Look at the devices in the PC,
and make sure they're "plumbed" :-)

Paul

The grocery list really helped me to see what I need
and I have time to study the 8500 and 780 and work it
all out before I have to replace either.

I also remembered your SATA on SATA example you made
and that helped as well. I could go with just a single as you
suggested but it's nice to have the option of two if ever needed.

I forgot about the connector link you gave me before and
that will help identify what is what. I see just by reviewing it
quickly there are all types of connectors and that I have an
ATX 20+4x4 main power cable.


Thanks,.
Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
The grocery list really helped me to see what I need
and I have time to study the 8500 and 780 and work it
all out before I have to replace either.

I also remembered your SATA on SATA example you made
and that helped as well. I could go with just a single as you
suggested but it's nice to have the option of two if ever needed.

I forgot about the connector link you gave me before and
that will help identify what is what. I see just by reviewing it
quickly there are all types of connectors and that I have an
ATX 20+4x4 main power cable.


Thanks,.
Robert

The 20+4 has an "interesting" history.

The connector started with 20 pins (like on your 8200 RAMBUS board).

Someone decided the ability to carry a few more amps
(for the PCI Express slot and video cards) would be
a good idea, so they extended the connector to 24 pins.
They could have profitably put two yellow wires and
two black wires on the extension piece, but they
decided to waste some wires on extra +3.3V and +5V instead.

This was covered in an ATX spec (Intel formfactors.org site).

The industry wanted to make power supplies that could
handle both roles. And make products that would work
in your old 8200 or your newer 8500.

They split the connector into two pieces, giving the 20+4 connector.
(That isn't detailed in the Intel documentation, it's
an industry innovation of sorts. And from a track record
perspective, any time the industry does something like
this, it's usually a disaster :-/ )

Initially, the "fastener" between the two pieces was
more robust. And there would be feedback to the user,
that the pieces held together. The Playtool site has
a picture of a 20+4 with "hooks" to encourage capture.

The modern versions of 20+4, the two pieces barely
acknowledge their partner is next to them. There is
a plastic "rib", but it doesn't seem to do much.
Some retention of the two pieces is needed, because
the lock latch on the 20 pin piece, is helping to hold
the 4 pin section in place, when you plug a 20+4
into a 24 pin motherboard (your case).

And having said all that, they are still shipping
power supplies with just a 24 pin connector, which
doesn't split. If you buy one of those, when the
24 pin is plugged into a 20 pin motherboard, four
pins "hang over the side" on one end. If there is
an electrolytic capacitor next to the 20 pin, it
gets in the way and blocks proper seating of the
connector. And that's what happens if you buy a
24 pin (un-splittable) one, versus the 20+4 you got.

Pros: 20+4 handles both motherboard types, 20 and 24 pin.
Cons: Two halves may not have a lot holding them together.
Can be hard to figure out what to do with it :-)

The most positive aspect of the 24 pin connector,
is it comes with one additional yellow wire, to
power a video card slot.

Paul

It's interesting you commented on the 24pin
because as I said I had a hell of time getting
it off because you have to hold the clip while
doing so to release it.

However, when I put it back I heard it click.

The second time I tried it I didn't hear a click
but was afraid of pressing too hard so left it.

I think one of the things I want to do is go
down the list and connect each cable to the
PSU,. that will give me a feel for what I need
to replace and where the cables will go.

Would the 4 pin ATX replace the 2x2 on the
motherboard or is that another separate wire?

Robert

If you click on the picture it opens up
a box with (7) pictures. From looking at the
fourth picture (connections) I will have 3 cables
connecting to it since you said I don't need
the PCI cabling.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817151203

which is exactly what you listed

motherboard - main 24 power, ATX12V 2x2 power
optical drive - SATA power (use one cable for one side of PC)
hard drive - SATA power (use second cable for other side of PC)
floppy - use Molex power with Molex to floppy adapter on end
video card - None

Robert