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#16
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Is Zone Alarm necessary with a DSL firewall?
"Pappion" wrote in
: re "may be happening many times during the on time anyway, if you have power-saving enabled." How can I check that, and should I have it enabled? I have XP Pro, SP2. In the control panel under 'Power Options'. |
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#17
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Is Zone Alarm necessary with a DSL firewall?
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 13:59:15 -0600, Pappion wrote:
I typed in 192.168.254.254 and a simple page opened to turn on the "firewall." Does that help?? Okay, it sounds like you have a modem that includes NAT routing and a "firewall." Firewall is not actually a correct term for this what this is. It is not a hardware or software firewall but a type of technology that functions very similar to a firewall. At the very least I would also enable Windows built-in firewall (that's how I run on my home network). If you desire some finer granularity (control) of outbound traffic, then don't enable the Windows firewall and install a third party software solution such as Zone Alarm instead. In this scenario, Zone Alarm or similar would not interfere with what your modem/router is doing. As for not turning off the computer - I still do it. We get thunderstorms that can knock out expensive electronic equipment in the blink of an eye and occasionally enough wind to disrupt the power supply. Also... and this is just personal opinion... I think it's more "earth-friendly" to not consume power when you don't need to. -- Sharon F MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User |
#18
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Is Zone Alarm necessary with a DSL firewall?
Sharon F wrote in
: As for not turning off the computer - I still do it. We get thunderstorms that can knock out expensive electronic equipment in the blink of an eye and occasionally enough wind to disrupt the power supply. Also... and this is just personal opinion... I think it's more "earth-friendly" to not consume power when you don't need to. Many people don't realize that a quality UPS, not necessarily a huge one, just not a super-cheapy, have benefits beyond poer backup. They will protect as a surge protector as well as act as a line 'conditioner'. You know, like the $150 Monster surge protector/conditioners they try to sell you when you by a flat panel TV. You can get the same benefit from a sub-$100 (not $30) UPS. It doesn't need to be huge, as you really only need 10 or 15 minutes worth of power. Enough to keep you running for those short lived glitches of a minute or 2, and that also gives you plenty of time to shutdown your computer properly, instead of the power just dropping in the middle of extended disk access. |
#19
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Is Zone Alarm necessary with a DSL firewall?
Agree with both of you, and I do have one, and went back to shutting down at
the end of my sessions (I'm a writer). "DanS" wrote in message . 97.142... Sharon F wrote in : As for not turning off the computer - I still do it. We get thunderstorms that can knock out expensive electronic equipment in the blink of an eye and occasionally enough wind to disrupt the power supply. Also... and this is just personal opinion... I think it's more "earth-friendly" to not consume power when you don't need to. Many people don't realize that a quality UPS, not necessarily a huge one, just not a super-cheapy, have benefits beyond poer backup. They will protect as a surge protector as well as act as a line 'conditioner'. You know, like the $150 Monster surge protector/conditioners they try to sell you when you by a flat panel TV. You can get the same benefit from a sub-$100 (not $30) UPS. It doesn't need to be huge, as you really only need 10 or 15 minutes worth of power. Enough to keep you running for those short lived glitches of a minute or 2, and that also gives you plenty of time to shutdown your computer properly, instead of the power just dropping in the middle of extended disk access. |
#20
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Is Zone Alarm necessary with a DSL firewall?
DanS wrote:
Many people don't realize that a quality UPS, not necessarily a huge one, just not a super-cheapy, have benefits beyond poer backup. They will protect as a surge protector as well as act as a line 'conditioner'. You know, like the $150 Monster surge protector/conditioners they try to sell you when you by a flat panel TV. You can get the same benefit from a sub-$100 (not $30) UPS. It doesn't need to be huge, as you really only need 10 or 15 minutes worth of power. Enough to keep you running for those short lived glitches of a minute or 2, and that also gives you plenty of time to shutdown your computer properly, instead of the power just dropping in the middle of extended disk access. Good point. Have two of these in the computer room. One in the living room for entertainment gear. They're worth every penny (lots of pennies)! -- Sharon F MS MVP Windows/Shell |
#21
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Is Zone Alarm necessary with a DSL firewall?
DanS wrote:
Many people don't realize that a quality UPS, not necessarily a huge one, just not a super-cheapy, have benefits beyond poer backup. They will protect as a surge protector as well as act as a line 'conditioner'. You know, like the $150 Monster surge protector/conditioners they try to sell you when you by a flat panel TV. ... The plug-in UPS connects AC mains directly to electronics when not in battery backup mode. Where is power conditioning? It does not exist. A relay does not 'condition' electricity. When does that electronics see most 'dirty' electricity? When UPS is in battery backup mode. For example, this UPS outputs as 120 volts: two 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between those square waves. AC mains provide 120 V sine wave and no spikes; much 'cleaner'. UPS in battery backup mode outputs a waveform so 'dirty' as to even damage some small electric motors. But computers are so robust that a 200 volt square wave and spike does no harm. They are called 'computer grade' UPSes. So where is this power conditioning? UPS provides 'cleanest' power when relay connects electronics directly to AC mains. Where is this power conditioning? Well where are its numerical specifications that claim such conditioning? UPS numerical specifications 'forget' provide numbers such as THD. Rumors claim 'power conditioning' that is not in that numerical spec sheet. Where is surge protection? Well it does provide protection from one type of surge that is typically not destructive. Do we assume it protects from ALL types of surges? Of course not. And yet that is what many do when claiming a cheap UPS provides 'surge protection'. They forget to mention the destructive type of surge it does not protect from. Again look at its numerical spec sheet. Where are numbers that define protection for each type of surge? Numbers do not exist. As required, a joules number is provided. That vaguely defines surge protector life expectancy. The UPS - like a $160 Monster Cable protector - does not even claim to protect from surges that typically cause electronics damage. A cheap UPS provides one function - protects data from damage by blackouts and extreme brownouts. UPS protects data when power fails. Notice its 'dirty' power during battery backup mode. Computer will see some of the 'dirtiest' electricity from a UPS that is not a power conditioner. UPS is battery backup power to protect data - nothing more. Get and post numeric specifications if you have a problem with these facts. Damning numbers for those who assumed a 'computer grade' UPS does more than battery backup. Meanwhile, that $160 Monster Cable product does same functions found in a $10 protector sold in the grocery store. But again, show me their numbers? Monster Cable protectors - like their wires and connectors - hype myths to the naive. |
#22
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Is Zone Alarm necessary with a DSL firewall?
On Nov 10, 7:11 am, "w_tom" wrote: DanS wrote: Many people don't realize that a quality UPS, not necessarily a huge one, just not a super-cheapy, have benefits beyond poer backup. They will protect as a surge protector as well as act as a line 'conditioner'. You know, like the $150 Monster surge protector/conditioners they try to sell you when you by a flat panel TV. ... The plug-in UPS connects AC mains directly to electronics when not in battery backup mode. Where is power conditioning? It does not exist. A relay does not 'condition' electricity. When does that electronics see most 'dirty' electricity? When UPS is in battery backup mode. For example, this UPS outputs as 120 volts: two 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between those square waves. AC mains provide 120 V sine wave and no spikes; much 'cleaner'. UPS in battery backup mode outputs a waveform so 'dirty' as to even damage some small electric motors. But computers are so robust that a 200 volt square wave and spike does no harm. They are called 'computer grade' UPSes. So where is this power conditioning? UPS provides 'cleanest' power when relay connects electronics directly to AC mains. Where is this power conditioning? Well where are its numerical specifications that claim such conditioning? UPS numerical specifications 'forget' provide numbers such as THD. Rumors claim 'power conditioning' that is not in that numerical spec sheet. Where is surge protection? Well it does provide protection from one type of surge that is typically not destructive. Do we assume it protects from ALL types of surges? Of course not. And yet that is what many do when claiming a cheap UPS provides 'surge protection'. They forget to mention the destructive type of surge it does not protect from. Again look at its numerical spec sheet. Where are numbers that define protection for each type of surge? Numbers do not exist. If a surge protector is listed under UL 1449 it has MOVs from H-N, H-G, N-G that cover all surge modes. w_ has never provided specs from anyone that had numbers for different surge modes. This is a red hering. Interconnected devices should connect to the same surge protector or signal wires should run thorugh the surge protector. Good information on surges and surge protection is available from the IEEE at: http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/Li...ion_May051.pdf And from the NIST at http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/p.../surgesfnl.pdf -- bud-- |
#23
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Is Zone Alarm necessary with a DSL firewall?
DanS wrote:
Sharon F wrote in : As for not turning off the computer - I still do it. We get thunderstorms that can knock out expensive electronic equipment in the blink of an eye and occasionally enough wind to disrupt the power supply. Also... and this is just personal opinion... I think it's more "earth-friendly" to not consume power when you don't need to. No arguement; unplugging is the only sure protection against some situations. Many people don't realize that a quality UPS, not necessarily a huge one, just not a super-cheapy, have benefits beyond poer backup. They will protect as a surge protector as well as act as a line 'conditioner'. A UPS's true use is to protect against power outages or over/under voltages, and allow the clean shut down of the computer. The surge protection of a UPS may or may not meet or beat that of the "surge protector" you allude to. Even just a surge protector capable of some substantial energy consumption far exceeds your estimates of the cost of a UPS. A UPS also normally has far more surge protection than what you refer to. You know, like the $150 Monster surge protector/conditioners they try to sell you when you by a flat panel TV. Thosre are NOT "monsters": They are minimally designed and very poor surge protectors in general. Some are good, some aren't. It's the specs that matter, not the price. For the most part, you're right with the following exceptions/caveats: 1. Line power protections does NOT protect the telephone wires unless you run them through the device, as they recommend; in general, damaging surges occur much more frequently on the phone lines than on the power lines. 2. No "cheap" UPS "conditions" the power lines. All most do is switch over to battery power if the surges/peaks go beyond certain limits. 3. Decent UPS's are not available in the $30 range; the batteries t hemselves cost that much or more. 4. NO UPS is going to protect equipment from a close lightning hit, which the OP intimates may occur frequently and unexpectedly. 5. Unless it's a decent UPS, there will be no indication if/when the internal surge protection has been compromised. Therefore one hit can kill the protection and have saved the equipment, but a successive hit will get directly to the equipment. MOVs and "standard" cktry fails open vs. shorted, and if not internally monitored, can be damaged beyond functionality without any symptoms being present. 6. Turning the power OFF and unplugging ALL external connections (e.g. unplug power AND telephone wiring) is the ONLY way to be certain an external lightning hit or power-cross can't get to the equipment. The best way to unplug the power is with a power strip: When you unplug that, you should be unplugging everything. Just unplugging, say, the computer, still leaves other paths to exist where surges/hits can get into it via the other equipment (eg connectors, phone, etc). In SOME areas in North America and around the world, the above points are ALL valid and the best protection is to be sure everything gets unplugged. In "most" areas, it can be debatable whether they are necessary points to use. eg around here, we don/'t see lighting unless the storm is detectable (99% of the time anyway). Most people find the use of a reasonably priced UPS which will give them anything greater than 5 minutes of running time and has protection for the phone wires plus a control connection to the computer, will suffice. They give the user time to Shut Down without losing any data before the power is lost. They gloss over temporary outages of very short duration without even bothering the user other than he may hear the UPS beep, indicating an "event" occurred. For unattended computers, they will automatically Shut Down the computer if power is lost and the batteries can't keep the computer running any longer. Just to clarify; there is a LOT of info available on these points all over the web. HTH Pop` |
#24
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Is Zone Alarm necessary with a DSL firewall?
"Pop`" wrote in
: DanS wrote: Sharon F wrote in : As for not turning off the computer - I still do it. We get thunderstorms that can knock out expensive electronic equipment in the blink of an eye and occasionally enough wind to disrupt the power supply. Also... and this is just personal opinion... I think it's more "earth-friendly" to not consume power when you don't need to. No arguement; unplugging is the only sure protection against some situations. Many people don't realize that a quality UPS, not necessarily a huge one, just not a super-cheapy, have benefits beyond poer backup. They will protect as a surge protector as well as act as a line 'conditioner'. A UPS's true use is to protect against power outages or over/under voltages, and allow the clean shut down of the computer. The surge protection of a UPS may or may not meet or beat that of the "surge protector" you allude to. Even just a surge protector capable of some substantial energy consumption far exceeds your estimates of the cost of a UPS. A UPS also normally has far more surge protection than what you refer to. You know, like the $150 Monster surge protector/conditioners they try to sell you when you by a flat panel TV. Thosre are NOT "monsters": They are minimally designed and very poor surge protectors in general. Some are good, some aren't. It's the specs that matter, not the price. I meant the brand name 'Monster' as in 'Monster Cables', you know, the company that want to sell you $100 speaker wire for your $100 stereo receiver. It's all a marketing scam. For the most part, you're right with the following exceptions/caveats: 1. Line power protections does NOT protect the telephone wires unless you run them through the device, as they recommend; in general, damaging surges occur much more frequently on the phone lines than on the power lines. Agreed. 2. No "cheap" UPS "conditions" the power lines. All most do is switch over to battery power if the surges/peaks go beyond certain limits. I should have stated that by conditioning, I meant filter of RFI and EMI. 3. Decent UPS's are not available in the $30 range; the batteries t hemselves cost that much or more. That is exactly what I stated. I said 'sub-$100 (NOT a $30 one)'. Most people find the use of a reasonably priced UPS which will give them anything greater than 5 minutes of running time and has protection for the phone wires plus a control connection to the computer, will suffice. They give the user time to Shut Down without losing any data before the power is lost. They gloss over temporary outages of very short duration without even bothering the user other than he may hear the UPS beep, indicating an "event" occurred. For unattended computers, they will automatically Shut Down the computer if power is lost and the batteries can't keep the computer running any longer. And yes, those are also the reasons I stated. Regards, DanS |
#25
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Is Zone Alarm necessary with a DSL firewall?
"w_tom" wrote in
oups.com: They are called 'computer grade' UPSes. So where is this power conditioning? UPS provides 'cleanest' power when relay connects electronics directly to AC mains. Where is this power conditioning? Well where are its numerical specifications that claim such conditioning? UPS numerical specifications 'forget' provide numbers such as THD. Rumors claim 'power conditioning' that is not in that numerical spec sheet. Get and post numeric specifications if you have a problem with these facts. Damning numbers for those who assumed a 'computer grade' UPS does more than battery backup. Well, here is a link to a download for the short manual on the APC ES- 750: http://sturgeon.apcc.com/techref.nsf/partnum/990-2128/$FILE/990-2128 _EN.pdf A quick web search yields prices ranges from $68 - $100 dollars. It has several AC outlets on it. One w/backup, and a few with surge protection only. Also, it has surge protection for a phone/fax line, a cable line, and a network connection as well. As I said in another post, I should have said the conditioneing I referred to was RFI/EMI filtering, which is what the saleperson at CC tried to use to sell me the 'Monster' surge protector for my LCD TV. UPS's come in three flavors, in order of least to most desirable, modified sine-wave (like the one you have), step-approximated (like the one I linked above), and pure sine-wave outputs. The pure sine-wave are the most expensive and the largest and heavies, as they are essentially a giant audio amplifier. The specs linked above are listed as when on battery backup, 115V +/- 8%. I could not find on the webpage if the switchover from AC to DC was mechanical (with a relay as yours), or solid-state. And I also stated that the main reason for having one is to coast through a very short power failure, and allow proper shutdown for the extended outages, not to continually run your PC on it. What is the brand, model and selling price of the one you have ? Regards, DanS |
#26
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Is Zone Alarm necessary with a DSL firewall?
Protection required (and still not installed in most all homes) was
routinely installed before WWII in commercial broadcasting stations, all telephone switching centers (COs), and even to electronics atop the Empire State Building where lightning struck 25 times annually. Direct lightning strikes with no damage was standard and necessary even that long ago. Do they disconnect to protect? Of course not. Notice how your telco, with a $multimillion computer connected to overhead wires everywhere in town, turns off phone service as thunderstorms approach. Oh. They suffer no computer damage and yet do not disconnect? That correct. They use 'whole house' type protection connected to a single point earth ground. Protectors connected short to earth provide protection - that good. Even early 1900 Ham radio operators would disconnect the antenna, put that antenna lead inside a mason jar, and still suffer damage. Damage stopped when that wire was earthed. Earthing - not a protector - is the protection. Take a $3 power strip. Add some $0.10 parts. Sell it for $25 - or make it look more expensive and sell it as a Monster Cable product. Meanwhile, where are the spec numbers that list protection for each type of transient? Monster Cable does not provide those numbers because Monster Cable does not even claim to protect from the destructive type of surge. Meanwhile, where are numbers for this EMI and RFI protection afforded by Monster Cable? It is an old and well proven trend. No numbers is how to promote myths as fact. Where are numbers for this EMI and RFI protection? What problem does that solve? Somehow those details are forgotten when promoting Monster Cable and UPSes. Little hint. Electronic appliances already contain EMI / RFI protection internally. Anything that Monster Cable product claims to accomplish is already in all electronic appliances. Required by FCC requirements. Did they successfully get you to assume that EMI/RFI circuit does something for your appliance? Again, lying by telling half truths. Meanwhile, what is in the sub-$100 UPS? Same protector circuit also found inside a Monster Cable protector. Where is this protection? Protection promoted by urban myths. Have any doubts? Then post the manufacturer's numerical specs. Show us with manufacturer numbers this protection for each type of transient. Why do they routinely not provide those numbers? Shorting such information creates an environment ripe for myths. They will do anything not to discuss earthing. The Monster Cable protector does what? Where are the numbers. A damning fact proven even long before WWII. The protector is nothing more than a connection to protection. What is the protection? Earth ground. What does the Monster Cable product not connect to? Earth ground. What does IEEE recommend in standards for effective protection? Earth ground. Where is the 'less than 10 foot' connection from a sub-$100 UPS or from a Monster Cable product to earth ground? Does not exist - does it. They hope you never learn why earthing is essential to protection because ... a $3 power strip with some $0.10 parts selling for $100+. Why would they provide any numbers? Myth purveyors will create massive profits. Meanwhile, responsible manufactures provide transient protection. Monster Cable is clearly not on the list of responsible. Cutler-Hammer, Intermatic, Leviton, GE, Siemens, Square D, and other responsible brand names sell the effective 'whole house' protector. Same technology found in telephone switching stations that don't disconnect during thunderstorms. Same technology with a dedicated wire for earth ground connection. Effective solutions are sold in Lowes, Home Depot, and electrical supply houses - for tens of times (in the case of Monster Cable - hundred of times) less money per protected appliance. The effective solution also costs massively less because ..... well they are not selling a $3 power strip with some $0.10 components for $160. Would you trust an AC mains breaker box labeled Monster Cable? For obvious reasons .... no. Same company even sells speaker wire for $100 - and some recommend that speaker wire as if they just know it is better - without numbers. No earth ground means no effective protection. Even the sub-$100 UPS is only data protection from blackouts and extreme brownouts. Those who disagree: then show me the numbers. DanS wrote: ... I meant the brand name 'Monster' as in 'Monster Cables', you know, the company that want to sell you $100 speaker wire for your $100 stereo receiver. It's all a marketing scam. ... 2. No "cheap" UPS "conditions" the power lines. All most do is switch over to battery power if the surges/peaks go beyond certain limits. I should have stated that by conditioning, I meant filter of RFI and EMI. 3. Decent UPS's are not available in the $30 range; the batteries t hemselves cost that much or more. That is exactly what I stated. I said 'sub-$100 (NOT a $30 one)'. ... |
#27
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Is Zone Alarm necessary with a DSL firewall?
On Nov 11, 8:27 am, "w_tom" wrote: Take a $3 power strip. Add some $0.10 parts. Sell it for $25 - or make it look more expensive and sell it as a Monster Cable product. Meanwhile, where are the spec numbers that list protection for each type of transient? Monster Cable does not provide those numbers because Monster Cable does not even claim to protect from the destructive type of surge. Where are w_'s specs for any surge suppressor that "list protection for each type of transient"? Still nissing. This is still a red herring. And if a common mode surge (H & N lift from G) comes into a house, the N-G connection in a (US) service turns the common mode surge substantially into a differential mode surge (H lifts from N & G). I agree that "monster" anything is basically a rip-off. They will do anything not to discuss earthing. Your religious views on earthing are not shared by the IEEE and NIST. The IEEE guide clearly describes plug-in suppressors as working primarily by clamping the voltage on all wires (power and signal) to the common ground at the suppressor. They do not work primarily by earthing. What does IEEE recommend in standards for effective protection? Earth ground. You have to be stupid to think the IEEE guide, aimed at the general public, is not consistent with other IEEE publications. No earth ground means no effective protection. The statement of religious belief again. Those who disagree: then show me the numbers. Specs for surge suppressors are readily available. Specs for different modes are still a red herring. The IEEE and NIST guides say that plug-in suppressors are effective. Links to sites that say plug-in suppressors are effective: 2 Your links to sites that say plug-in suppressors are not effective: zero -- bud-- |
#28
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Is Zone Alarm necessary with a DSL firewall?
Sheesh, I was a HAM, and remember when we sent "e-mails" to one another, and
how we did it before the Internet...kid-operator. I agree re the grounding. Grandfather told me about that when I was a wee lass. He developed the Diesel engine with Dr. Diesel, and refused to move to Germany (good thing), but built the first motor car engine company in the nation, and there's a sign on Pike's Peak commemorating he was the first to cross in an automobile. Fortunate, both grandfathers were commonsense people, and both always "grounded" everything possible--and took me along. LOL Mat. g'father was head lineman for Mich Bell in the upper central Mi region--during snowstorms with snow drifts to close to the top of poles, many farmers would suggest he "pull those lines up from our inside our warm homes..." LOL Not really comprehending all you write, but thanks. I shut down my computer and surge protector daily, and in storms unplug everything. New threat needed on speaker wire--but not applicable to this NG. Have questions on surround-the-home sound to enjoy my classical music. Don't know how/where to contact those in the know. CNET didn't. "w_tom" wrote in message ups.com... Protection required (and still not installed in most all homes) was routinely installed before WWII in commercial broadcasting stations, all telephone switching centers (COs), and even to electronics atop the Empire State Building where lightning struck 25 times annually. Direct lightning strikes with no damage was standard and necessary even that long ago. Do they disconnect to protect? Of course not. Notice how your telco, with a $multimillion computer connected to overhead wires everywhere in town, turns off phone service as thunderstorms approach. Oh. They suffer no computer damage and yet do not disconnect? That correct. They use 'whole house' type protection connected to a single point earth ground. Protectors connected short to earth provide protection - that good. Even early 1900 Ham radio operators would disconnect the antenna, put that antenna lead inside a mason jar, and still suffer damage. Damage stopped when that wire was earthed. Earthing - not a protector - is the protection. Take a $3 power strip. Add some $0.10 parts. Sell it for $25 - or make it look more expensive and sell it as a Monster Cable product. Meanwhile, where are the spec numbers that list protection for each type of transient? Monster Cable does not provide those numbers because Monster Cable does not even claim to protect from the destructive type of surge. Meanwhile, where are numbers for this EMI and RFI protection afforded by Monster Cable? It is an old and well proven trend. No numbers is how to promote myths as fact. Where are numbers for this EMI and RFI protection? What problem does that solve? Somehow those details are forgotten when promoting Monster Cable and UPSes. Little hint. Electronic appliances already contain EMI / RFI protection internally. Anything that Monster Cable product claims to accomplish is already in all electronic appliances. Required by FCC requirements. Did they successfully get you to assume that EMI/RFI circuit does something for your appliance? Again, lying by telling half truths. Meanwhile, what is in the sub-$100 UPS? Same protector circuit also found inside a Monster Cable protector. Where is this protection? Protection promoted by urban myths. Have any doubts? Then post the manufacturer's numerical specs. Show us with manufacturer numbers this protection for each type of transient. Why do they routinely not provide those numbers? Shorting such information creates an environment ripe for myths. They will do anything not to discuss earthing. The Monster Cable protector does what? Where are the numbers. A damning fact proven even long before WWII. The protector is nothing more than a connection to protection. What is the protection? Earth ground. What does the Monster Cable product not connect to? Earth ground. What does IEEE recommend in standards for effective protection? Earth ground. Where is the 'less than 10 foot' connection from a sub-$100 UPS or from a Monster Cable product to earth ground? Does not exist - does it. They hope you never learn why earthing is essential to protection because ... a $3 power strip with some $0.10 parts selling for $100+. Why would they provide any numbers? Myth purveyors will create massive profits. Meanwhile, responsible manufactures provide transient protection. Monster Cable is clearly not on the list of responsible. Cutler-Hammer, Intermatic, Leviton, GE, Siemens, Square D, and other responsible brand names sell the effective 'whole house' protector. Same technology found in telephone switching stations that don't disconnect during thunderstorms. Same technology with a dedicated wire for earth ground connection. Effective solutions are sold in Lowes, Home Depot, and electrical supply houses - for tens of times (in the case of Monster Cable - hundred of times) less money per protected appliance. The effective solution also costs massively less because .... well they are not selling a $3 power strip with some $0.10 components for $160. Would you trust an AC mains breaker box labeled Monster Cable? For obvious reasons .... no. Same company even sells speaker wire for $100 - and some recommend that speaker wire as if they just know it is better - without numbers. No earth ground means no effective protection. Even the sub-$100 UPS is only data protection from blackouts and extreme brownouts. Those who disagree: then show me the numbers. DanS wrote: ... I meant the brand name 'Monster' as in 'Monster Cables', you know, the company that want to sell you $100 speaker wire for your $100 stereo receiver. It's all a marketing scam. ... 2. No "cheap" UPS "conditions" the power lines. All most do is switch over to battery power if the surges/peaks go beyond certain limits. I should have stated that by conditioning, I meant filter of RFI and EMI. 3. Decent UPS's are not available in the $30 range; the batteries t hemselves cost that much or more. That is exactly what I stated. I said 'sub-$100 (NOT a $30 one)'. ... |
#29
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Earthgrounding
Is the answer then to literally unplug the surge suppressor from the wall
outlet??? "bud--" wrote in message ups.com... On Nov 11, 8:27 am, "w_tom" wrote: Take a $3 power strip. Add some $0.10 parts. Sell it for $25 - or make it look more expensive and sell it as a Monster Cable product. Meanwhile, where are the spec numbers that list protection for each type of transient? Monster Cable does not provide those numbers because Monster Cable does not even claim to protect from the destructive type of surge. Where are w_'s specs for any surge suppressor that "list protection for each type of transient"? Still nissing. This is still a red herring. And if a common mode surge (H & N lift from G) comes into a house, the N-G connection in a (US) service turns the common mode surge substantially into a differential mode surge (H lifts from N & G). I agree that "monster" anything is basically a rip-off. They will do anything not to discuss earthing. Your religious views on earthing are not shared by the IEEE and NIST. The IEEE guide clearly describes plug-in suppressors as working primarily by clamping the voltage on all wires (power and signal) to the common ground at the suppressor. They do not work primarily by earthing. What does IEEE recommend in standards for effective protection? Earth ground. You have to be stupid to think the IEEE guide, aimed at the general public, is not consistent with other IEEE publications. No earth ground means no effective protection. The statement of religious belief again. Those who disagree: then show me the numbers. Specs for surge suppressors are readily available. Specs for different modes are still a red herring. The IEEE and NIST guides say that plug-in suppressors are effective. Links to sites that say plug-in suppressors are effective: 2 Your links to sites that say plug-in suppressors are not effective: zero -- bud-- |
#30
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Is Zone Alarm necessary with a DSL firewall?
"w_tom" wrote in
ups.com: Meanwhile, where are numbers for this EMI and RFI protection afforded by Monster Cable? It is an old and well proven trend. No numbers is how to promote myths as fact. Where are numbers for this EMI and RFI protection? What problem does that solve? Somehow those details are forgotten when promoting Monster Cable and UPSes. Regardless of what your opinion is, why do you keep going back to the Monster product I mentioned ? Everyone agrees it's a marketing ploy. And why did the subject get to 'whole house' systems ? We were discussing $100'ish dollar UPS's. It sounds like you're expecting to find whitepaper like articles about tests results of each model.......your not going to find that. |
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