flipped power off during an update

Hi All,

Got an emergency call. Customer got angry at
an update and flipped the power off. Details
of what transpired are really sketchy other than
he has flipped the power off several times and
his business is down. And he is really angry.
I have to go out to his site in a few mintues.

Yikes

I printed out to take with me:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...covery-options

I take it that I can't a safe mode and "sfc /scannow" with
10?

After I get him going, I am going to ShutUp10 EVERYTHING
and no more updates EVER.

Any word of wisdom?

-T

In reply to "T" who wrote the following:

Hi All,

Got an emergency call. Customer got angry at
an update and flipped the power off. Details
of what transpired are really sketchy other than
he has flipped the power off several times and
his business is down. And he is really angry.
I have to go out to his site in a few mintues.

Yikes

I printed out to take with me:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...covery-options

I take it that I can't a safe mode and "sfc /scannow" with
10?

After I get him going, I am going to ShutUp10 EVERYTHING
and no more updates EVER.

Any word of wisdom?

Are you planning to charge money for this visit? I'm kinda thinking you probably
shouldn't. It doesn't seem right.



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On 10/7/19 1:20 PM, me wrote:
In reply to "T" who wrote the following:

Hi All,

Got an emergency call. Customer got angry at
an update and flipped the power off. Details
of what transpired are really sketchy other than
he has flipped the power off several times and
his business is down. And he is really angry.
I have to go out to his site in a few mintues.

Yikes

I printed out to take with me:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...covery-options

I take it that I can't a safe mode and "sfc /scannow" with
10?

After I get him going, I am going to ShutUp10 EVERYTHING
and no more updates EVER.

Any word of wisdom?

Are you planning to charge money for this visit? I'm kinda thinking you probably
shouldn't. It doesn't seem right.




I had nothing to do with his decision to flip the
power off. He never ever asked me for advice before
doing so. How in the world do you think this is
a warranty action on my part?

Maybe he should trying send my bill to M$. It is
their ****ty code to start with.

In reply to "T" who wrote the following:

On 10/7/19 1:20 PM, me wrote:
In reply to "T" who wrote the following:

Hi All,

Got an emergency call. Customer got angry at
an update and flipped the power off. Details
of what transpired are really sketchy other than
he has flipped the power off several times and
his business is down. And he is really angry.
I have to go out to his site in a few mintues.

Yikes

I printed out to take with me:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...covery-options

I take it that I can't a safe mode and "sfc /scannow" with
10?

After I get him going, I am going to ShutUp10 EVERYTHING
and no more updates EVER.

Any word of wisdom?

Are you planning to charge money for this visit? I'm kinda thinking you
probably
shouldn't. It doesn't seem right.




I had nothing to do with his decision to flip the
power off. He never ever asked me for advice before
doing so. How in the world do you think this is
a warranty action on my part?


I was commenting on the technician, not the customer.





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Free Newsreader @ http://www.newsleecher.com/
------------------------------- ----- ---- -- -

On 10/7/19 2:18 PM, me wrote:
In reply to "T" who wrote the following:

On 10/7/19 1:20 PM, me wrote:
In reply to "T" who wrote the following:

Hi All,

Got an emergency call. Customer got angry at
an update and flipped the power off. Details
of what transpired are really sketchy other than
he has flipped the power off several times and
his business is down. And he is really angry.
I have to go out to his site in a few mintues.

Yikes

I printed out to take with me:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...covery-options

I take it that I can't a safe mode and "sfc /scannow" with
10?

After I get him going, I am going to ShutUp10 EVERYTHING
and no more updates EVER.

Any word of wisdom?

Are you planning to charge money for this visit? I'm kinda thinking you
probably
shouldn't. It doesn't seem right.




I had nothing to do with his decision to flip the
power off. He never ever asked me for advice before
doing so. How in the world do you think this is
a warranty action on my part?


I was commenting on the technician, not the customer.

Oh I get it. You were trolling trying to pick a fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsIa_LKojJI

Thank you for helping me update my kill file.

T wrote:
Hi All,

Got an emergency call. Customer got angry at
an update and flipped the power off. Details
of what transpired are really sketchy other than
he has flipped the power off several times and
his business is down. And he is really angry.
I have to go out to his site in a few mintues.

Yikes

I printed out to take with me:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...covery-options

I take it that I can't a safe mode and "sfc /scannow" with
10?

After I get him going, I am going to ShutUp10 EVERYTHING
and no more updates EVER.

Any word of wisdom?

In such cases chkdsk c: /f is always my first move. Unless a recovery
drive is available, powering down during an update almost always
guarantees that the "reinstall from installation media" is the only
viable option open to you. Although the reinstall typically moves the
original C:\Windows to C:\Windows.old you will still need to re-install
applications.
At best you can disable windows update service for a week to ten
days. After that Microsoft reaches right on in an updates whether you
like it or not.

Thank you, 73,

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

On 10/7/19 1:23 PM, Don Kuenz wrote:
T wrote:
Hi All,

Got an emergency call. Customer got angry at
an update and flipped the power off. Details
of what transpired are really sketchy other than
he has flipped the power off several times and
his business is down. And he is really angry.
I have to go out to his site in a few mintues.

Yikes

I printed out to take with me:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...covery-options

I take it that I can't a safe mode and "sfc /scannow" with
10?

After I get him going, I am going to ShutUp10 EVERYTHING
and no more updates EVER.

Any word of wisdom?

In such cases chkdsk c: /f is always my first move. Unless a recovery
drive is available, powering down during an update almost always
guarantees that the "reinstall from installation media" is the only
viable option open to you. Although the reinstall typically moves the
original C:\Windows to C:\Windows.old you will still need to re-install
applications.
At best you can disable windows update service for a week to ten
days. After that Microsoft reaches right on in an updates whether you
like it or not.

Thank you, 73,



Thank you!

Oh I can disable the update service permanently.
I am sneaky.

T wrote:
On 10/7/19 1:23 PM, Don Kuenz wrote:
T wrote:
Hi All,

Got an emergency call. Customer got angry at
an update and flipped the power off. Details
of what transpired are really sketchy other than
he has flipped the power off several times and
his business is down. And he is really angry.
I have to go out to his site in a few mintues.

Yikes

I printed out to take with me:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...covery-options


I take it that I can't a safe mode and "sfc /scannow" with
10?

After I get him going, I am going to ShutUp10 EVERYTHING
and no more updates EVER.

Any word of wisdom?

In such cases chkdsk c: /f is always my first move. Unless a recovery
drive is available, powering down during an update almost always
guarantees that the "reinstall from installation media" is the only
viable option open to you. Although the reinstall typically moves the
original C:\Windows to C:\Windows.old you will still need to re-install
applications.
At best you can disable windows update service for a week to ten
days. After that Microsoft reaches right on in an updates whether you
like it or not.

Thank you, 73,



Thank you!

Oh I can disable the update service permanently.
I am sneaky.

Is this "customer" equipped with your backup system ?

The OS will already have run CHKDSK, so if
"CHKDSK was a bad idea", it might already be too late.
He might have been flipping the power while it was
running CHKDSK.

You could backup the system as it currently stands,
restore from previous backup, then import email folders and
business related stuff and bring the OS back to
its current revision level.

If the machine was in the middle of the September patch
that came in a few days ago, you might need to do this.
He must have had some reason to be hitting the power...
And remember that tomorrow is Patch Tuesday, which could
further complicate your situation unless you click the
"delay update for 7 days" button in Windows Update.

DISM /image:c:\ /cleanup-image /revertpendingactions

In terms of patches, there's Patch Tuesday, but sometimes
there's a patch near the end of the month, and that might
be what I was seeing coming in on my "Win10 on HDD" setup.

Good luck with your emergency call...

A customer like that would make me, um, nervous.

Paul

Paul wrote:

snip

The OS will already have run CHKDSK, so if
"CHKDSK was a bad idea", it might already be too late.
He might have been flipping the power while it was
running CHKDSK.

Is it possible for you to help me understand what you wrote? Under what
scenarios is it a "bad idea" to run CHKDSK? What happens when you cycle
power as CHKDSK is running?

Thank you, 73,

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

Don Kuenz wrote:
Paul wrote:

snip

The OS will already have run CHKDSK, so if
"CHKDSK was a bad idea", it might already be too late.
He might have been flipping the power while it was
running CHKDSK.

Is it possible for you to help me understand what you wrote? Under what
scenarios is it a "bad idea" to run CHKDSK? What happens when you cycle
power as CHKDSK is running?

Thank you, 73,

chkdsk could be repairing. If it gets interrupted from a crash, outage,
or anything unexpected, then data corruptions.

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Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
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/ /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
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Don Kuenz wrote:
Paul wrote:

snip

The OS will already have run CHKDSK, so if
"CHKDSK was a bad idea", it might already be too late.
He might have been flipping the power while it was
running CHKDSK.

Is it possible for you to help me understand what you wrote? Under what
scenarios is it a "bad idea" to run CHKDSK? What happens when you cycle
power as CHKDSK is running?

Thank you, 73,


Let me give you an example.

I've already had one case here, of a failure involving
an IDE ribbon cable disk drive setup. I'd been working
inside a PC and "bumped" the ribbon cable, and (apparently)
pulled it partly out of its mate. The whole bus wasn't
touching. The connector was on an angle.

If a person, upon seeing some strange symptoms or
corruption, attempts to run CHKDSK, it will "do 100,000 writes"
to that disk, attempting to repair it (because every
read will be bad). And the bad writes will completely
destroy the information content. Nothing will be
left when it's finished. I've seen a report of this
in a newsgroup.

CHKDSK is a "repair-in-place" solution. Any time you
use it, be aware it can "rewrite the disk" on you. If
there is a structural problem (even a problem with
"bad memory" where the disk sectors are buffered,
which has happened to me), sending CHKDSK on a mission
at that point can be deadly.

Utilities which move your data to a second drive while
fixing it, those are better as they do not threaten the
source drive.

Power cycling CHKDSK does not guarantee a grisly ending,
but if enough "damage" to an NTFS partition accumulates,
you can break it. This is why the modern versions of
Windows have some kind of background scanning and integrity
checking they do, which reduces the need to run CHKDSK
on a regular basis to solve the "accumulated damage" problem.

On an OS like Win2K, you might want to run CHKDSK every
three months, to flush out any structural damage that
has accumulated over that interval. On Windows 10, you
don't need to do that, as Windows 10 is working on that
for you. And, I have not seen any web pages describing
if the background scan finds a problem, what it's supposed
to do - as some procedures could need approval from the user.
I've seen no reports in a newsgroup, traceable to background
scans.

If you damage the shadow copy subsystem, it can prevent
recovery of the partition. I lost a copy of Windows 7 that
way. The shadow copy subsystem is the "most leverage"
you can use against a partition (short of deleting the $MFT
directly). The files for shadow copies, are inside
System Volume Information. And yes, you can get at them.

*******

Summary: Before using CHKDSK, consider the hardware situation
first. Is there any reason to suspect a hardware
subsystem is damaged ? If so, then DON'T run CHKDSK.
Think carefully, about making a backup first using a
sector-by-sector method. Work on the copy and see if
a disaster befalls the copy. If so, then you definitely
know there's a hardware issue you have to solve first,
before you can fix the source disk.

The first sign of failed memory on my machine, was
running Verify on a Macrium backup and having it claim
a failure (bad checksum). Only a certain date range
of backups were ruined. And as part of testing, I
detected (using the Windows memory tester of all things),
that my memory was defective in a lower memory area.
Once the memory was replaced, I could do disk I/O
error free again. If I wanted to run CHKDSK, it would
make sense to be running it *after* the new memory was
installed, not before.

Paul

On 10/7/19 2:03 PM, Paul wrote:
T wrote:
On 10/7/19 1:23 PM, Don Kuenz wrote:
T wrote:
Hi All,

Got an emergency call.Â* Customer got angry at
an update and flipped the power off.Â* Details
of what transpired are really sketchy other than
he has flipped the power off several times and
his business is down.Â* And he is really angry.
I have to go out to his site in a few mintues.

Yikes

I printed out to take with me:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...covery-options


I take it that I can't a safe mode and "sfc /scannow" with
10?

After I get him going, I am going to ShutUp10 EVERYTHING
and no more updates EVER.

Any word of wisdom?

In such casesÂ* chkdsk c: /fÂ* is always my first move. Unless a recovery
drive is available, powering down during an update almost always
guarantees that the "reinstall from installation media" is the only
viable option open to you. Although the reinstall typically moves the
original C:\Windows to C:\Windows.old you will still need to re-install
applications.
Â*Â*Â*Â* At best you can disable windows update service for a week to ten
days. After that Microsoft reaches right on in an updates whether you
like it or not.

Thank you, 73,



Thank you!

Oh I can disable the update service permanently.
I am sneaky.

Is this "customer" equipped with your backup system ?

See my followup.

HAHAHAHA. No backup what so ever. Now he is backing up
his specialty software to the old hard drive I installed
in his new computer.

Where do these vendors get the idea that it is a good
practice to use one of your four tires as your spare?

UPS'es, Anti Virus, and backup are hard to sell until
the customer has put his hand in the fire. Before that,
I get treated like I am trying to scam them, so I
pick and choose my battles.


The OS will already have run CHKDSK,

I won't run squat.

It was running the annoy balls saying it was doing
an upgrade. Well, the first power off. Yes, I know
it occasionally says not to flip it off, but who
reads.

so if
"CHKDSK was a bad idea", it might already be too late.
He might have been flipping the power while it was
running CHKDSK.

He flipped it several times. The first time, he could actually
get into Windows, but it would eventually freeze up. So
lets flip the power off a few more times.


You could backup the system as it currently stands,
restore from previous backup, then import email folders and
business related stuff and bring the OS back to
its current revision level.

If the machine was in the middle of the September patch
that came in a few days ago, you might need to do this.
He must have had some reason to be hitting the power...
And remember that tomorrow is Patch Tuesday, which could
further complicate your situation unless you click the
"delay update for 7 days" button in Windows Update.

Â*Â* DISM /image:c:\ /cleanup-image /revertpendingactions

Could not get a command prompt, even from install media. BIOS
won't boot off a stick and I don't carry installer DVD's
with me. I do carry the 1903 ISO, but my Live DVD's (w10 and
Fedora) don't have DVD burner apps. And his USB ports were
acting really weird.

And I was primed for chkdsk, sfc, and dism. Had all their
printouts ready in my briefcase too! But they only
work in a command prompt.


In terms of patches, there's Patch Tuesday, but sometimes
there's a patch near the end of the month, and that might
be what I was seeing coming in on my "Win10 on HDD" setup.

Good luck with your emergency call...

Thank you! It did work out well in the end.

A customer like that would make me, um, nervous.

Ya, you know it is understandable what he did. He
had customers standing in front of him tapping
their feet wanting quotes and bills. Windows Nein
is just not a reasonable platform for running
this kind of software


Â*Â* Paul

Thank you for all the help!

-T

On 07/10/2019 22.25, T wrote:
On 10/7/19 1:23 PM, Don Kuenz wrote:
T wrote:
Hi All,

Got an emergency call.Â* Customer got angry at
an update and flipped the power off.Â* Details
of what transpired are really sketchy other than
he has flipped the power off several times and
his business is down.Â* And he is really angry.
I have to go out to his site in a few mintues.

Yikes

I printed out to take with me:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...covery-options


I take it that I can't a safe mode and "sfc /scannow" with
10?

After I get him going, I am going to ShutUp10 EVERYTHING
and no more updates EVER.

Any word of wisdom?

Restore from backup.


In such casesÂ* chkdsk c: /fÂ* is always my first move. Unless a recovery
drive is available, powering down during an update almost always
guarantees that the "reinstall from installation media" is the only
viable option open to you. Although the reinstall typically moves the
original C:\Windows to C:\Windows.old you will still need to re-install
applications.
Â*Â*Â*Â* At best you can disable windows update service for a week to ten
days. After that Microsoft reaches right on in an updates whether you
like it or not.

Thank you, 73,



Thank you!

Oh I can disable the update service permanently.
I am sneaky.

And then you will be legally liable for any malware incident that would
be prevented by an update.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 10/8/19 7:14 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
And then you will be legally liable for any malware incident that would
be prevented by an update.

Ya, I know. But he demanded it, so I think I am covered.
And my house is homesteaded, so no lawyer in this state
would take his case.

He could as well sue me for Windows Nein crashing his machine.

Plus I put on ESET End Point Advanced, which is a bazillion
times better at security than any of M$'s garbage.

He can not have an OS that does a surprise update when
customers are tapping their feet waiting for a quote
or an invoice.

Windows Nein is just a really, really bad choice to
run Point-of-Sale software on.

In article , T wrote:
....
WinBlows (in its current incarnation) is just a really, really bad choice to
run Point-of-Sale software on.

I think that's really the bottom line. It's not suitable for any purpose
other than watching Netflix and/or Hulu.

That's all we use it for.

Everything else is either Linux or usable (earlier) versions of Windows.

--
To most Christians, the Bible is like a software license. Nobody
actually reads it. They just scroll to the bottom and click "I agree."

- author unknown -