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Xnews failure update in XP Home
As I posted here earlier, I couldn't get Xnews news reader to work
properly on my sMachine T2984 computer; it couldn't DL message counts, headers or messages. It does get lists of group names, authenticates connection if required and some other things so it's successfully connected to the news server and getting some data. It fails with no error message. Xnews has run fine for me on the eMachine for many many years. The eMachine has no problem running my other software - Firefox, Eudora email ap, Kaspersky virus protection, etc. The eMachine uses DSL but exhibits the Xnews problems using a dial-up connection with another ISP as well. News server ports are set to 119. It fails with two separate news servers with different groups. The same copy of Xnews that fails runs with no problem on my Compaq backup system. A friend sent me a ZIP of Xananews. I installed it and it has the same problem as Xnews so it's not a problem with Xnews, but something wrong in the eMachine, but for the life of me I can't think of what it might be. The problem started one morning between separate turn-ons and computer sessions with no warnings or error messages. No new software installed, upgrades, uninstalls, or anything else. I tried Wireshark packet sniffer but don't understand its results. Can anyone think of anything, likely a hardware or OS fault, that could cause such a problem? This was a long post but I tried to anticipate any questions. Hoping for TIA. -- You know it's time to clean the refrigerator when something closes the door from the inside. |
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#2
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Xnews failure update in XP Home
KenK wrote:
As I posted here earlier, I couldn't get Xnews news reader to work properly on my sMachine T2984 computer; it couldn't DL message counts, headers or messages. It does get lists of group names, authenticates connection if required and some other things so it's successfully connected to the news server and getting some data. It fails with no error message. Xnews has run fine for me on the eMachine for many many years. The eMachine has no problem running my other software - Firefox, Eudora email ap, Kaspersky virus protection, etc. The eMachine uses DSL but exhibits the Xnews problems using a dial-up connection with another ISP as well. News server ports are set to 119. It fails with two separate news servers with different groups. The same copy of Xnews that fails runs with no problem on my Compaq backup system. A friend sent me a ZIP of Xananews. I installed it and it has the same problem as Xnews so it's not a problem with Xnews, but something wrong in the eMachine, but for the life of me I can't think of what it might be. The problem started one morning between separate turn-ons and computer sessions with no warnings or error messages. No new software installed, upgrades, uninstalls, or anything else. I tried Wireshark packet sniffer but don't understand its results. Can anyone think of anything, likely a hardware or OS fault, that could cause such a problem? This was a long post but I tried to anticipate any questions. Hoping for TIA. Xananews is another multithreaded multiserver program. Why aren't you debugging with something a little more single-threaded ? If you aren't running Thunderbird for anything now, install version 2.0.0.24 and test with your server. Remember to tick "Always Request Authentication", if connecting to a news server that needs a USER and PASS field passed to it. (Link to the download for a US English user...) ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.or...202.0.0.24.exe ******* One thing I didn't see in your Wireshark trace, is AUTHINFO USER and PASS commands sent to news.individual.net. Does Xnews have an "Always Request Authentication" option ? If your news server requires you to log in, the process must be "volunteered" from your end. The protocol does not "prompt" you for a username, in the way that FTP might. You make your news server, send USER and PASS commands, which the server observes as attempts to authenticate, and then it lets you in. It's a weird protocol, and if you don't send USER and PASS, the server could just hang up on you. Make sure Xnews is "volunteering" the USER and PASS for that server. ******* If you don't want to test with Thunderbird, you can test this way. http://www.anta.net/misc/telnet-trou...ing/nntp.shtml In Command Prompt, run telnet telnet news.individual.net nntp Then, in their example, they're entering this text from the keyboard. I've modified the session a bit, AUTHINFO user my_username_on_individual_net AUTHINFO pass my_password_on_individual_net POST From: Newsgroups: misc.test Subject: Test article Message-ID: This is a test. . --- This dot means "end of message", it gets posted. GROUP misc.test --- Now, he checks to see the message number. The person selects the high-water mark from the last command, which returned this in the Telnet window. The person crafting this example, assumes no one else has submitted a message. The 269643 is the high water mark. 211 24 269620 269643 misc.test selected So he then sends this, to fetch the newly posted article. ARTICLE 269643 quit That's an example of a transaction. Done with Telnet. Note that some servers have extremely short connection timeout values. If there is no activity on the port for ten seconds, the port can close. At one time, the timeout might have been set to a couple minutes. But being "tight *******s", the NSP sets the timeout extremely short, so fewer sessions are connected to the server at any one time (uses less server memory, more users can be hosted). And that means, you almost need a "here is" script to feed into Telnet stdin, so the commands are sent in rapid-fire succession. Knowing that, I'd switch over to Thunderbird, fire up Wireshark, and test that way :-) And yes, you can easily see what is happening in Wireshark. If the transaction is single thread, it'll be a lot easier to see and follow. ******* Please review your networking setup. DSL_provider ---- new_modem_router ----- (Ethernet cable to computer) That's what I think it is. Have you done something different, like add another router in series with the above setup ? Your news server won't send USER and PASS, if the initial attempt to reach the server (get the 200 message) is failing to be seen. But if the 200 message comes in, the news client sees that, it can then send out the AUTHINFO USER command, to pass the username to the server. Paul |
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Xnews failure update in XP Home
On 18 Oct 2014, KenK wrote in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general: Can anyone think of anything, likely a hardware or OS fault, that could cause such a problem? Firewall blocking the port? Maybe somethin in you HOSTS file is interfering? news.individual.net also can be accessed at port 8119 - try that? https://news.individual.net/config.php |
#4
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Xnews failure update in XP Home
Nil wrote in
: On 18 Oct 2014, KenK wrote in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general: Can anyone think of anything, likely a hardware or OS fault, that could cause such a problem? Firewall blocking the port? Maybe somethin in you HOSTS file is interfering? news.individual.net also can be accessed at port 8119 - try that? https://news.individual.net/config.php Xnews worked correctly on the eMachine this morning when I started it from force of habit. I turned it off and updated the newscr files. Then ran it again - didn't work. sigh So I doubt it's the port address. Firewall is part of Kaspersky Internet Security 2015. Updated 9/25. Xnews failed 10/8 so I don't think there is a connection. HOSTS file? No familiar with that. -- You know it's time to clean the refrigerator when something closes the door from the inside. |
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Xnews failure update in XP Home
Paul wrote in :
KenK wrote: As I posted here earlier, I couldn't get Xnews news reader to work properly on my sMachine T2984 computer; it couldn't DL message counts, headers or messages. It does get lists of group names, authenticates connection if required and some other things so it's successfully connected to the news server and getting some data. It fails with no error message. Xnews has run fine for me on the eMachine for many many years. The eMachine has no problem running my other software - Firefox, Eudora email ap, Kaspersky virus protection, etc. The eMachine uses DSL but exhibits the Xnews problems using a dial-up connection with another ISP as well. News server ports are set to 119. It fails with two separate news servers with different groups. The same copy of Xnews that fails runs with no problem on my Compaq backup system. A friend sent me a ZIP of Xananews. I installed it and it has the same problem as Xnews so it's not a problem with Xnews, but something wrong in the eMachine, but for the life of me I can't think of what it might be. The problem started one morning between separate turn-ons and computer sessions with no warnings or error messages. No new software installed, upgrades, uninstalls, or anything else. I tried Wireshark packet sniffer but don't understand its results. Can anyone think of anything, likely a hardware or OS fault, that could cause such a problem? This was a long post but I tried to anticipate any questions. Hoping for TIA. Xananews is another multithreaded multiserver program. Why aren't you debugging with something a little more single-threaded ? If you aren't running Thunderbird for anything now, install version 2.0.0.24 and test with your server. Remember to tick "Always Request Authentication", if connecting to a news server that needs a USER and PASS field passed to it. (Link to the download for a US English user...) ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.or...s/2.0.0.24/win 32/en-US/Thunderbird%20Setup%202.0.0.24.exe DLed and tested. Gets group list, gets message count but doesn't DL messages or headers. Says news server file timed out. That server does not require authntication like individual net. Interesting bit of news: Xnews worked correctly on the eMachine this morning when I started it from force of habit. I turned it off and updated the newscr files. Then ran it again - didn't work. sigh Curiouser and curiouser! One thing I didn't see in your Wireshark trace, is AUTHINFO USER and PASS commands sent to news.individual.net. Does Xnews have an "Always Request Authentication" option ? If your news server requires you to log in, the process must be "volunteered" from your end. The protocol does not "prompt" you for a username, in the way that FTP might. You make your news server, send USER and PASS commands, which the server observes as attempts to authenticate, and then it lets you in. It's a weird protocol, and if you don't send USER and PASS, the server could just hang up on you. Make sure Xnews is "volunteering" the USER and PASS for that server. One later more legible list from Wireshark includes: news.individual,net 192.168.0.2 NNTP 97 Response 281 Authentication accepted (UID=307388) ******* If you don't want to test with Thunderbird, you can test this way. http://www.anta.net/misc/telnet-trou...ing/nntp.shtml In Command Prompt, run telnet telnet news.individual.net nntp Then, in their example, they're entering this text from the keyboard. I've modified the session a bit, AUTHINFO user my_username_on_individual_net AUTHINFO pass my_password_on_individual_net POST From: Newsgroups: misc.test Subject: Test article Message-ID: This is a test. . --- This dot means "end of message", it gets posted. GROUP misc.test --- Now, he checks to see the message number. The person selects the high-water mark from the last command, which returned this in the Telnet window. The person crafting this example, assumes no one else has submitted a message. The 269643 is the high water mark. 211 24 269620 269643 misc.test selected So he then sends this, to fetch the newly posted article. ARTICLE 269643 quit That's an example of a transaction. Done with Telnet. Note that some servers have extremely short connection timeout values. If there is no activity on the port for ten seconds, the port can close. At one time, the timeout might have been set to a couple minutes. But being "tight *******s", the NSP sets the timeout extremely short, so fewer sessions are connected to the server at any one time (uses less server memory, more users can be hosted). And that means, you almost need a "here is" script to feed into Telnet stdin, so the commands are sent in rapid-fire succession. Knowing that, I'd switch over to Thunderbird, fire up Wireshark, and test that way :-) And yes, you can easily see what is happening in Wireshark. If the transaction is single thread, it'll be a lot easier to see and follow. ******* Please review your networking setup. DSL_provider ---- new_modem_router ----- (Ethernet cable to computer) That's what I think it is. Have you done something different, like add another router in series with the above setup ? No. Your news server won't send USER and PASS, if the initial attempt to reach the server (get the 200 message) is failing to be seen. But if the 200 message comes in, the news client sees that, it can then send out the AUTHINFO USER command, to pass the username to the server. Paul I'll reread this later but I think I answered your questions. Thanks for your help as always. Ken -- You know it's time to clean the refrigerator when something closes the door from the inside. |
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Xnews failure update in XP Home
Paul wrote in :
Knowing that, I'd switch over to Thunderbird, fire up Wireshark, and test that way :-) Ok. Earlier this morning I ran Wireshark on an attempt to get messages with Thunderbird. I've not had a chance to read the printed result. Hope I can understand it. I didn't get anything out of the trace it showed on the screen after it ran. For some reason, the printed list is always very different - and much harder to understand. Ken -- You know it's time to clean the refrigerator when something closes the door from the inside. |
#7
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Xnews failure update in XP Home
Paul wrote in :
Knowing that, I'd switch over to Thunderbird, fire up Wireshark, and test that way :-) I checked the Wireshark output from my Thunderbird connection attempt yesterday. As usual, I got little that I could understand. However, I noticed one often repeated line that seemed to result when T- bird was attempting to get message info from the Optimax news server: NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1 I tried Google but got nothing I could understand. Mean anything to you? Today I'm going to look at the Windows and Kaspersky Internet Security 2015 firewall settings. I doubt if that's the problem but I'm getting desperate! I'll also try Google again but all I seem to get is my own messages on Usenet. sigh Ken -- You know it's time to clean the refrigerator when something closes the door from the inside. |
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Xnews failure update in XP Home
KenK wrote in news:XnsA3CE434E06DA4invalidcom@
130.133.4.11: Today I'm going to look at the Windows and Kaspersky Internet Security 2015 firewall settings. Turned off Windows firewall. No help so turned it back on. Having a problem finding Kaspersky firewall settings. Next will try Google. Ken -- You know it's time to clean the refrigerator when something closes the door from the inside. |
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Xnews failure update in XP Home
Nil wrote in news:XnsA3CAA9A7881F0nilch1
@wheedledeedle.moc: Firewall blocking the port? Turned off Windows firewall. No help so turned it back on. Having a problem finding Kaspersky firewall settings. Next will try Google. -- You know it's time to clean the refrigerator when something closes the door from the inside. |
#10
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Xnews failure update in XP Home
KenK wrote:
Paul wrote in : Knowing that, I'd switch over to Thunderbird, fire up Wireshark, and test that way :-) I checked the Wireshark output from my Thunderbird connection attempt yesterday. As usual, I got little that I could understand. However, I noticed one often repeated line that seemed to result when T- bird was attempting to get message info from the Optimax news server: NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1 I tried Google but got nothing I could understand. Mean anything to you? Today I'm going to look at the Windows and Kaspersky Internet Security 2015 firewall settings. I doubt if that's the problem but I'm getting desperate! I'll also try Google again but all I seem to get is my own messages on Usenet. sigh Ken https://ask.wireshark.org/questions/2387/ssdp-traffic "SSDP (Simple Service Discovery protocol) is a part of UPnP (Universal Plug and Play). It is normal traffic for all UPnP enabled devices in your LAN. Each device will send out a group of NOTIFY packets every 15 minutes or so while UPnP is enabled. Many devices will also periodically send out M-SEARCH packets, which are usually followed by response HTTP packets. " It's as if the Iptimax server wants to be found, and so it is participating in UPNP ? Do you see SSDP mentioned in that entry in Wireshark ? Remember that you're looking at about five transactions at once in that Wireshark trace. I don't think it's a coincidence that they all happen at once, as if some program on your computer (Xnews) is poking something. When I run Thunderbird for NNTP here, there would be some DNS activity (both to populate the Wireshark trace with names, as well as DNS to find the E-S news server). As well as the NNTP protocol to the INN server at E-S. And the analysis is pretty straight-forward, as I'm using port 119, everything (username and password too) are in plaintext, and each response uses standard numbers (like "200" when first contacting the server). The administrator on the INN server, can change the associated text message that travels with the number. On some servers, this leads to user confusion, such as when AIOE sends a terse "Banlist" message. When it could just as easily have explained "Group closed to posting" as a response. Looking up the number part, the "200" thing, can help you "decode" terse custom responses like "Banlist". You can look up the official definition of the number, to see what it might mean. I don't usually get routing traffic, as I tend to disable IPV6 on OSes here. (There are a couple ways to prevent IPV6 activities, and one of them damages things, so you have to be careful to do the background research before hammering stuff.) I had to turn off the router in my ADSL modem/router box, because it was being a pain with all the extra traffic and flashing LED activity. That was related to IPV6. The separate router box I use, just does IPV4, and that box is "quiet" when the LAN is quiet. Some day I'll have to turn some of this stuff back on, as IPV6 will soon be mandatory. We're close to exhaustion and networking failures via IPV4. And it's possible that on the Internet side of my setup, I'll need to run IPV6 again. Even if the router does 6to4 to deal with my LAN side. "Pauls head will explode" if he has to deal with IPV6 on the home LAN... :-) Paul |
#11
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Xnews failure update in XP Home
Paul wrote in :
KenK wrote: Paul wrote in : Knowing that, I'd switch over to Thunderbird, fire up Wireshark, and test that way :-) I checked the Wireshark output from my Thunderbird connection attempt yesterday. As usual, I got little that I could understand. However, I noticed one often repeated line that seemed to result when T- bird was attempting to get message info from the Optimax news server: NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1 I tried Google but got nothing I could understand. Mean anything to you? Today I'm going to look at the Windows and Kaspersky Internet Security 2015 firewall settings. I doubt if that's the problem but I'm getting desperate! I'll also try Google again but all I seem to get is my own messages on Usenet. sigh Ken https://ask.wireshark.org/questions/2387/ssdp-traffic "SSDP (Simple Service Discovery protocol) is a part of UPnP (Universal Plug and Play). It is normal traffic for all UPnP enabled devices in your LAN. Each device will send out a group of NOTIFY packets every 15 minutes or so while UPnP is enabled. Many devices will also periodically send out M-SEARCH packets, which are usually followed by response HTTP packets. " It's as if the Iptimax server wants to be found, and so it is participating in UPNP ? Do you see SSDP mentioned in that entry in Wireshark ? No. Remember that you're looking at about five transactions at once in that Wireshark trace. I don't think it's a coincidence that they all happen at once, as if some program on your computer (Xnews) is poking something. This was a Thunderbird trace, not Xnews, if it matters. When I run Thunderbird for NNTP here, there would be some DNS activity (both to populate the Wireshark trace with names, as well as DNS to find the E-S news server). As well as the NNTP protocol to the INN server at E-S. And the analysis is pretty straight-forward, as I'm using port 119, everything (username and password too) are in plaintext, and each response uses standard numbers (like "200" when first contacting the server). The administrator on the INN server, can change the associated text message that travels with the number. On some servers, this leads to user confusion, such as when AIOE sends a terse "Banlist" message. When it could just as easily have explained "Group closed to posting" as a response. Looking up the number part, the "200" thing, can help you "decode" terse custom responses like "Banlist". You can look up the official definition of the number, to see what it might mean. I don't usually get routing traffic, as I tend to disable IPV6 on OSes here. (There are a couple ways to prevent IPV6 activities, and one of them damages things, so you have to be careful to do the background research before hammering stuff.) I had to turn off the router in my ADSL modem/router box, because it was being a pain with all the extra traffic and flashing LED activity. That was related to IPV6. The separate router box I use, just does IPV4, and that box is "quiet" when the LAN is quiet. Some day I'll have to turn some of this stuff back on, as IPV6 will soon be mandatory. We're close to exhaustion and networking failures via IPV4. And it's possible that on the Internet side of my setup, I'll need to run IPV6 again. Even if the router does 6to4 to deal with my LAN side. "Pauls head will explode" if he has to deal with IPV6 on the home LAN... :-) Paul I'm going to read this carefully later. Ken -- You know it's time to clean the refrigerator when something closes the door from the inside. |
#12
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Xnews failure update in XP Home
KenK wrote in news:XnsA3CE434E06DA4invalidcom@
130.133.4.11: Today I'm going to look at the Windows and Kaspersky Internet Security 2015 firewall settings. Checked Kaspersky 2015 firewall. It has Xananews and especially Xnews under a Low Restricted setting. These are the only aps there. From what I can gather this shouldn't be causing my problem. But I do not have Kaspersky on the machine that runs newsreaders ok. However, Thunderbird isn't mentioned in the Kaspersky firewall files and it doesn't work either so that's maybe not the problem? Ken -- You know it's time to clean the refrigerator when something closes the door from the inside. |
#13
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Xnews failure update in XP Home
On 22 Oct 2014, KenK wrote in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general: Nil wrote in news:XnsA3CAA9A7881F0nilch1 @wheedledeedle.moc: Firewall blocking the port? Turned off Windows firewall. No help so turned it back on. Having a problem finding Kaspersky firewall settings. Next will try Google. You should never have two firewalls running at the same time. If you have Kapersky's firewall, turn off Windows' and leave it off. Try turning off all firewalls temporarily and see if that relieves the problem. |
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Xnews failure update in XP Home
KenK wrote:
KenK wrote in news:XnsA3CE434E06DA4invalidcom@ 130.133.4.11: Today I'm going to look at the Windows and Kaspersky Internet Security 2015 firewall settings. Checked Kaspersky 2015 firewall. It has Xananews and especially Xnews under a Low Restricted setting. These are the only aps there. From what I can gather this shouldn't be causing my problem. But I do not have Kaspersky on the machine that runs newsreaders ok. However, Thunderbird isn't mentioned in the Kaspersky firewall files and it doesn't work either so that's maybe not the problem? Ken If you want to present any more packet traces, you can put them on pastebin.com . That's a site for passing text files to people. Same rules as before - clear the Wireshark display, start it running, collect a short trace. Try to turn on the Name Resolution fields under View, so the trace uses symbolic names. After pasting into pastebin.com , collect the generated URL and you can use that as a reference when posting. Make sure there are no occurrences of USER or PASS with your account username or password in the text file, before posting. If you're working with port 119, they'll be in the trace. Paul |
#15
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Xnews failure update in XP Home
KenK wrote in
: KenK wrote in news:XnsA3CE434E06DA4invalidcom@ 130.133.4.11: Today I'm going to look at the Windows and Kaspersky Internet Security 2015 firewall settings. Checked Kaspersky 2015 firewall. It has Xananews and especially Xnews under a Low Restricted setting. These are the only aps there. From what I can gather this shouldn't be causing my problem. But I do not have Kaspersky on the machine that runs newsreaders ok. However, Thunderbird isn't mentioned in the Kaspersky firewall files and it doesn't work either so that's maybe not the problem? Ken Made a mistake as usual. When I looked for Thunderbird in Kaspersky firewall list I missed entry for Mozilla, which it lists as accepted. So if T-bird doesn't work, as it doesn't, then the Kaspersky firewall is not the problem. New grist for the mill: To check for a port 119 problem, someone told me to use Xnews on news.sff.net port 1119 I did and it worked perfectly. Then I turned off Xnews, turned it back on - several times - and the sff news server no longer works, just like Individual and Optimax. Wonder why it worked once? Just like Xnews worked once on all news servers a few days ago. Weirder and weirder. A clue? TIA Ken -- You know it's time to clean the refrigerator when something closes the door from the inside. |
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