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#16
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cloud OS?
"mechanic" wrote
| Microsoft would like Windows to be a cloud OS, just so MSFT can charge | you rent on your software. | | What's wrong with that? We are already used to a rental system on | our cars (in the UK called Personal Contract Purchase or PCP). It's | the way things are going. ?? Speak for yourself. I have only software that I bought, wrote, or got for free. No monthly payments. No ads. My pickup truck is scheduled to be paid off in 2 years. In the US one can lease a vehicle. It's similar to buying in terms of payments, but you don't own it at the end of the term and there are limits in terms of what you can do with it. (For instance, I've installed a custom cap on my pickup. Couldn't drill the holes for it with a leased vehicle.) Leasing sometimes makes sense for businesses that are writing off the costs, but it's hardly "the way things are going" for people to no longer have their own personal possessions. At least not in the US. The UK seems to be both more socialistic and more fascistic, so maybe that accounts for your experience. Software rental is a fad mostly for one reason: The market is mature and software companies can no longer depend on selling grossly overpriced, periodic updates. That's tough for monopoly products especially. Thus, MS Office 365 and Adobe Creative Cloud are both rental and both seem to be doing well. They're doing well specifically because rental costs a lot more than buying the software, at least for the average person who doesn't need to buy every update. But the people renting often want every update of that monopoly product and use it for work. So they'll pay. In order to move along the rental trend, companies like Microsoft are making it harder to control your computer, in the name of security and convenience. There's also been a trend toward constant updating. In a few short years people have gone from a view that they buy software and use it for several years to a view that it's normal for all software to need constant updates, and that all those updates are good by definition. That kind of thinking makes rental software and services seem sensible. So again, that approach has been pushed, mostly in the name of security. A lot of dubious profits are being made in the name of security. People are literally being scared into opening their wallets. Online services also come into the picture. Many people do want to use something like an iPad or cellphone to shop online, play games, etc. They want convenience. They often don't care much about ads or privacy. And they don't really distinguish between owning, services and rental. They just want the thing to work. Most of that usage is consumeritic rather than productive. In other words, those people are not using those devices to do anything like work. So they don't much care about the idea of owning the device and the files on it. |
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#17
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cloud OS?
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:37:46 -0500, Mayayana wrote:
"mechanic" wrote | Microsoft would like Windows to be a cloud OS, just so MSFT can charge | you rent on your software. | | What's wrong with that? We are already used to a rental system on | our cars (in the UK called Personal Contract Purchase or PCP). It's | the way things are going. ?? Speak for yourself. I have only software that I bought, wrote, or got for free. No monthly payments. No ads. My pickup truck is scheduled to be paid off in 2 years. Similar here - I own all the software and I havn't bought car on time since 1968. |
#18
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cloud OS?
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:37:46 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote: In order to move along the rental trend, companies like Microsoft are making it harder to control your computer, Windows is already legacy. The leading operating system on the planet is Android - it`s free, apps are free or cheap. And you still can keep your files locally e. g. on a hard disk, if you want: https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-u...ndroid-phones/ PHONES Use external storage to expand unexpandable Android phones If your phone lacks a microSD slot, you can still add extra storage. Here's how. BY RICK BROIDA MAY 26, 2017 2:54 PM PDT Bottom line: Never computing power for consumers was cheaper than today, never they had more choices (to make). M. |
#19
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cloud OS?
"Michael Logies" wrote
| Windows is already legacy. The OS used by the vast majority of businesses is "legacy"? I suppose that what you really mean is that using a computer to do work is "legacy". Perhaps it is for you. Somehow I can't quite picture a secretarial pool or a group of stockbrokers all sitting in rows doing their work on an Android phone, with a toothpick for typing. | The leading operating system on the planet is Android - it`s free, | apps are free or cheap. And you still can keep your files locally e. | g. on a hard disk, if you want: | https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-u...ndroid-phones/ | You represent the consumer voice. The people who don't mind spying, don't mind not owning their own files, and mainly want to shop, Facebook, or play games. The DiddleSphere. What I find odd is that while you're happy to pay through the nose for your phone and the service that makes it usable, you don't want to pay even a few dollars for software. You'd rather pay with your privacy and your dignity. Then you turn around and say it's all free! What's free? The ads? I can get 3 Windows computers for the cost of a top-end Android cellphone. And even after paying so much for the phone, Google and the app makers would spy on me and sell me out to advertisers. Here's a report from NYT this week: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/b...-tracking.html It's about phone apps rigged to monitor and recognize audio output in order to report to advertisers what TV shows you watch on your phone, and where you were when you watched them. I'm amazed at what people are putting up with. Have you no self-respect? | Bottom line: Never computing power for consumers was cheaper than | today, never they had more choices (to make). | You can choose between iPhone and Android. Then you can choose the carrier who bills you $1,000+/year to use it. Then you can choose a selection of kiddie games and commercial shopping apps to run. (Why do you think they call it Google *Play*?) Are there other choices? Are you running Photoshop or AutoCAD on you 3" screen? If so then why in the world would you do that? |
#20
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cloud OS?
On 12/30/17 2:34 PM, BurfordTJustice wrote:
When do you expect to have this on the market?/ when you code it and give me the copyright "dale" wrote in message ... : After around 25 years of enjoying peer-peer desktop computing with self : administration I look back to client/server models and want something : for most of what I do without my own machine/network admin. : : How about a terminal/thin-client running a cloud distributed java : byte-code OS with availability of byte-code apps including development? : The only thing besides that I would want is hardware input/output like: : CD/DVD, USB stick, memory card, etc. might give a rise to the hardware : consumable market ... : : With the right model I think OS or network development is even possible : : -- : Not a professional opinion unless specified. : dale - http://www.dalekelly.org/ -- Not a professional opinion unless specified. dale - http://www.dalekelly.org/ |
#21
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cloud OS?
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 15:04:23 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote: The OS used by the vast majority of businesses is "legacy"? Yes, it is on its way to legacy even for businesses. I own a business (dentist) and have about 7 Windows PCs in my office. I would prefer a dental cloud solution which for legal and technical reasons is still not available in germany. Less hassle, less admin work for me. I assume, that I will use Windows my last 15 years in my office, but the next generation will throw it out. I suppose that what you really mean is that using a computer to do work is "legacy". No. For working in the cloud a PC with "Chrome OS" oder "Cloudready" is good enough. My daughter uses a 24" Dell-monitor (1920*1200 pixel) and a usual keyboard and mouse with her Chromebit. The Chromebit is easily the device booting fastest of all my PCs (but it is always on, anyhow), same is true for updates, which take about 10-20 seconds (not minutes or hours like Windows). You represent the consumer voice. The people who don't mind spying, I don`t believe that Microsoft is better. And even on Chrome OS the web browser can be used with an ad blocker (uBlock origin). don't mind not owning their own files, As I wrote: With Android (and with Chrome OS) you still can have your files locally. You'd rather pay with your privacy and your dignity. Not more than with Microsoft. I would say: With more dignity. Microsoft makes me a babysitting slave of my PCs, Chrome OS does not. Then you turn around and say it's all free! What's free? The ads? I dont`s see ads, not on Windows, nor on Android nor on Chrome OS. VPN (with ad and malware blocking) or ad blocker for the web browser for all of them. I can get 3 Windows computers for the cost of a top-end Android cellphone. I`m quite happy with my Honor 6X, 220 Euros. The Chromebit was 120 Euros. Much cheaper than a Windows Pc. Here's a report from NYT this week: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/b...-tracking.html I don`t play games on my Androids or PCs. And I try to choose my apps more carefully. It's about phone apps rigged to monitor and recognize audio output in order to report to advertisers what TV shows you watch on your phone, I don`t do. For me it`s mostly an email, news and RSS machine ("News+" for Inoreader.com). I just showed my father how to miracast his pictures and films from his Honor 5C to his TV. It was more stable from his Android than from my new Windows laptop (which I need for RDP over Hamachi to my office). Backup will be done automatically by Google Fotos to his Google account, free & no limits for number of pictures and films. You can choose between iPhone and Android. Then you can choose the carrier who bills you $1,000+/year to use it. Family members use their Androids mainly in the WLAN of our home or office. I pay between 0 and 3 per month for a mobile contract. (Why do you think they call it Google *Play*?) Are there other choices? There are other app store, yes, but Google Play is sufficent for me. E. g. the the following health apps on my android: 7M Workout (Johnson & Johnson), AHRQ ePSS, AcciDent, NICE guidance, Heatbeats, Ada. Perhapy you woul like RealCalc (RPN), CALCU or phyphox. Are you running Photoshop or AutoCAD on you 3" screen? If so then why in the world would you do that? I have a laptop with Android (HP Slatebook 14) with mouse but recently switched to a faster Windows laptop. Nevertheless: Chrome OS has about 60% of the school market in the US. It is present and future. And Photoshop is already in the cloud. But for most of us Google Fotos will be enough, as the other Google Apps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_Suite Regards M. |
#22
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cloud OS?
"Michael Logies" wrote
| Yes, it is on its way to legacy even for businesses. I own a business | (dentist) and have about 7 Windows PCs in my office. I would prefer a | dental cloud solution which for legal and technical reasons is still | not available in germany. Less hassle, less admin work for me. I | assume, that I will use Windows my last 15 years in my office, but the | next generation will throw it out. | | I suppose that what you really mean | is that using a computer to do work is "legacy". | | No. For working in the cloud a PC with "Chrome OS" oder "Cloudready" | is good enough. My daughter uses a 24" Dell-monitor (1920*1200 pixel) | and a usual keyboard and mouse with her Chromebit. The Chromebit is | easily the device booting fastest of all my PCs (but it is always on, | anyhow), same is true for updates, which take about 10-20 seconds (not | minutes or hours like Windows). | We don't seem to be diagreeing except in interpretation. You use Windows PCs at work, with local software. Your daughter uses a Chromebook, for unspecified things. School work online? You use your phone mainly for email. The only difference is that you feel it shouldn't have to be that way. And you trust Google. And you want a simple device that needs no expertise to run. The latter makes sense to me. I can see the appeal of a tablet for easy things that need computing, where one doesn't want to be hassled with drivers, software, hardware, etc. But I don't see the logic of conflating the two things. The existence of tablets has nothing to do with the life of desktops, just as the existence of microwave ovens doesn't make stoves obsolete. A microwave is a limited-use, specialty tool. (Though just as some people are glued to their phones, some people only eat microwave-ready frozen dinners and would be happy in a studio apt with no stove. | don't mind not owning their own files, | | As I wrote: With Android (and with Chrome OS) you still can have your | files locally. | I don't mean that. I mean that Google products are spyware. You can get gmail via POP and keep the email locally, but you can't stop Google from reading your email and claiming to co-own it. Even the Chrome browser is rife with spyware. Spyware-generated advertising is their business. They're not a software or search company and haven't been for a long time. https://www.srware.net/en/software_s...me_vs_iron.php It's up to you if you don't mind the ads, spying and hijacked private files. But others are also free to mind. And many of us do. | I dont`s see ads, not on Windows, nor on Android nor on Chrome OS. VPN | (with ad and malware blocking) or ad blocker for the web browser for | all of them. | I don't use a computer phone, so I don't know how ads work there, but I do know from reading that many apps are making their money as spyware selling data to advertisers. It's becoming the new malware. Ironically, one of the reason I don't have a computer phone (besides cost, irrelevance and privacy issues) is because I would want to learn the system in order to trust it in terms of privacy and security. And I don't want to have to take on such a big learning project just to use a phone. .... So you want phones and tablets and cloud for convenience and simplicity while I see them as a very big complication. As for Windows ads, what about ads for Candy Crush or MS Office in Metro buttons? Suggestions in the Start Menu? One Drive ads in File Explorer? A friend recently told me she avoids the Tile UI mainly because there are changing, animated ads that are distracting. And what about all the people complaining that they've removed something only to have it come back with the next update? Maybe you've managed to corral all those things? Nevertheless, they're doing it. In Win7 or earlier it would have been unthinkable for Microsoft to be poking around on a daily basis and inserting such ads. At worst, that would have been the shovelware on OEM PCs, like the sneaky MS Office or Symantec trialware. It seems to me that MS is taking the boiled frog approach, and it's working. People using Win10 are very gradually getting used to lowered expectations and don't even notice ads being inserted. They no longer expect to control the system. |
#24
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"pjp" wrote
| I just don't own a phone except house's landline for emergencies and it | works when power is out which cell towers don't do I suspect. I do the same. But I'm a building contractor and have been under increasing pressure from people who want to text me, or who tell me their doorbell doesn't work so, "call me when you get here". My solution has been to get a Tracphone. $20 + $20 every 3 months to have a phone booth in my truck. But I go for weeks without using it. And I don't allow texts. I have to pay for each one and I don't want people being in the habit of interrupting me. Though some people don't pay attention to my warning and text me anyway. Then they get upset that I didn't read it. What surprises me is the number of people who think landlines are outdated, yet can't get a signal half the time. I have one brother who can't get a signal at home at all. Too rural. When they do have a signal the sound is often poor. Or they don't pay attention to holding the phone up to their mouth and I can't hear them. It's actually a poorly functioning technology. But maybe people aren't noticing because they're doing more texting than talking now. |
#25
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cloud OS?
On 12/30/2017 8:31 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"pjp" wrote | I just don't own a phone except house's landline for emergencies and it | works when power is out which cell towers don't do I suspect. I do the same. But I'm a building contractor and have been under increasing pressure from people who want to text me, or who tell me their doorbell doesn't work so, "call me when you get here". My solution has been to get a Tracphone. $20 + $20 every 3 months to have a phone booth in my truck. But I go for weeks without using it. And I don't allow texts. I have to pay for each one and I don't want people being in the habit of interrupting me. Though some people don't pay attention to my warning and text me anyway. Then they get upset that I didn't read it. What surprises me is the number of people who think landlines are outdated, yet can't get a signal half the time. I have one brother who can't get a signal at home at all. Too rural. When they do have a signal the sound is often poor. Or they don't pay attention to holding the phone up to their mouth and I can't hear them. It's actually a poorly functioning technology. But maybe people aren't noticing because they're doing more texting than talking now. Whoever invented texting should have had a swift kick or 3 in the butt. Lets hear it for good old POTS line, Yeeeah. Rene |
#26
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cloud OS?
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 18:16:35 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote: "Michael Logies" wrote | No. For working in the cloud a PC with "Chrome OS" oder "Cloudready" | is good enough. My daughter uses a 24" Dell-monitor (1920*1200 pixel) | and a usual keyboard and mouse with her Chromebit. The Chromebit is | easily the device booting fastest of all my PCs (but it is always on, | anyhow), same is true for updates, which take about 10-20 seconds (not | minutes or hours like Windows). | We don't seem to be diagreeing except in interpretation. You use Windows PCs at work, with local software. Your daughter uses a Chromebook, No, a Chromebit. That is a full PC in the size of an USB-stick, with a big monitor and a big keyboard and mouse attached for using web apps (from Google and others). Web apps are (often) conceptionally superior to local programs: No need for upgrading by the end user, the web app is upgraded centrally instead. No need for massive, local CPU power, because the heavy lifting is done centrally. No need for big local storage, because data is stored centrally. The result is a cheaper, safer, easier use of computer power. Economics of scale are at work here and that`s why this will be the dominant way of computing in the future. for unspecified things. School work online? Yes. For writing reports, presentations, editing pictures from the smartphone, putting them into presentations. Next step may be collaborating on the same documents with others, which is simple and free with Google Apps. You use your phone mainly for email. For inoreader.com, collected with news+ (Android app). Then I forward good articles by email to some mailing lists and people, including myself. That`s faster than on a PC. The latter makes sense to me. I can see the appeal of a tablet I have not written about a tablet. The existence of tablets has nothing to do with the life of desktops, just as the existence of microwave ovens doesn't make stoves obsolete. A better analogy would be the fate of open fires after the introducing of central heating. I don't mean that. I mean that Google products are spyware. Then choose another web app provider. Chrome OS/Cloudread has an anonymous (guest) mode. Ironically, one of the reason I don't have a computer phone (besides cost, irrelevance and privacy issues) is because I would want to learn the system In the future "the system" will be mainly in the cloud, connected to dumber terminals. You don`t learn to operate a power station to use your electricity at home, do you? in order to trust it in terms of privacy and security. And I don't want to have to take on such a big learning project just to use a phone. Smartphones are the dominant computer platform today because they are much more simple than a PC, cheaper, easier to carry. As for Windows ads, what about ads for Candy Crush or MS Office in Metro buttons? I deinstalled these. Havn`t seen other ads on my PCs with Windows 10. Regards M: |
#27
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cloud OS?
On Sun, 31 Dec 2017 10:48:25 +0100, Michael Logies wrote:
Smartphones are the dominant computer platform today because they are much more simple than a PC, cheaper, easier to carry. That's an interesting point, I suppose if you count numbers it's probably true that most computers in use today are accounted for by smartphones. Pity Android phones are so hard to network (compared to Apple iPhones); Windows Homegroup networking is so much more of a problem than Apple networking - my daughter's Apple setup includes their AppleTV and almost anything can be accessed from any local Apple device with none of the problems that setting up MSFT Homegroup throws up. Networking is about the only thing MSFT still hasn't got right after so many Windows versions. |
#28
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cloud OS?
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 20:58:30 -0600, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
Whoever invented texting should have had a swift kick or 3 in the butt. Lets hear it for good old POTS line, Yeeeah. I wonder what the usage numbers for landline compared to mobile phone are. And many landline connections here are mainly for the broadband service, not POTS. |
#29
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cloud OS?
On 30 Dec 2017 19:14:19 GMT, ray carter wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:37:46 -0500, Mayayana wrote: "mechanic" wrote | Microsoft would like Windows to be a cloud OS, just so MSFT can charge | you rent on your software. | | What's wrong with that? We are already used to a rental system | on | our cars (in the UK called Personal Contract Purchase or PCP). It's | the way things are going. ?? Speak for yourself. I have only software that I bought, wrote, or got for free. No monthly payments. No ads. My pickup truck is scheduled to be paid off in 2 years. Similar here - I own all the software and I havn't bought car on time since 1968. So many things are rented these days, media services, smartphones, cars, cycles (in town centres), dwellings... it's a trend. Looking at your bank statements and counting the number of payments that are for goods and services paid for on a monthly basis can be a bit worrying... |
#30
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cloud OS?
On 30/12/2017 07:37, dale wrote:
After around 25 years of enjoying peer-peer desktop computing with self administration I look back to client/server models and want something for most of what I do without my own machine/network admin. How about a terminal/thin-client running a cloud distributed java byte-code OS with availability of byte-code apps including development? The only thing besides that I would want is hardware input/output like: CD/DVD, USB stick, memory card, etc. might give a rise to the hardware consumable market ... With the right model I think OS or network development is even possible IBM 3270/Linux/Unix terminals? -- @~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you! ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
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