Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?

"Ed Cryer" wrote

| I've just commissioned a new box of Win10 tricks. And I followed my
| usual course.
| Find fault with this for me - and give me nightmares.

I didn't know I was the dark cloud guy.

I think whatever works for you is fine. I view
my approach as the best for a number of reasons,
but your reasons might be different. Also, I've used
BootIt for this for many years. I don't know whether
Macrium has all the same functionality. I don't try
to save money when it comes to disk tools. BootIt
was $40 but it makes all disk-related jobs simple.

For me it's been about partitions and disk images
since Win9x. Back then I used Drive Image and Partition
Magic to enable multi-booting and maintain disk images.

Every computer I build or repair gets the
same treatment: Install, clean it up, get rid of extra
boot or recovery partitions, add data partitions,
make a disk image of a basic, cleaned up system and
back that up to both a data partition and DVDs.
Also, I always have 2 disks installed in my own box,
in case one dies.

So every computer I have has multiple disk image
backups ready to go in if anything goes wrong. No
muss, no fuss, no boot- or restore- partition mess
to deal with. No dependency on hard disk life.

My Win9x images used to always fit on a CD. My
basic XP disk image fits on a CD. My full XP image, with all
software set up, easily fits on a DVD. My Win7 backups
easily fit on 2 DVDs.

As far as speed, I'm not concerned about that
because once I have disk images I only back up data.
I can do that quickly and easily while I'm doing other
things because I separate it into categories: 1) Timely
data that changes, like work receipts, email, etc. 2) Data
that rarely changes and only needs occasional backup:
graphics, video, software installers, docs for various
things, etc.
It all gets copied to both disks. The timely backup
data is all on one partition and I just write it periodically
to a DVD.

If you're backing up 100 GB that's not really a disk
image. That's just backup. And you need an extra disk
or large size USB stick to store it because 95% of
what you're backing up isn't necessary.

I think of it like a tractor trailer. The OS/software is the
tractor. The data is in the trailer. (Data partitions.) They're
two fundamentally different kinds of binaries. One's the
tools, the other's the content.
It makes no sense to have the two stuck together, in
the same way that if you're shipping a truck full of produce
you don't need to lose it all just because the engine breaks
down in the desert. Rather, you hook up a new tractor
front-end and keep driving.

But I know that some people deeply disagree with
that logic. Some people feel very strongly that data
partitions don't make sense....
There's no accounting for taste.

Mayayana wrote:
"Ed Cryer" wrote

| I've just commissioned a new box of Win10 tricks. And I followed my
| usual course.
| Find fault with this for me - and give me nightmares.

I didn't know I was the dark cloud guy.

I think whatever works for you is fine. I view
my approach as the best for a number of reasons,
but your reasons might be different. Also, I've used
BootIt for this for many years. I don't know whether
Macrium has all the same functionality. I don't try
to save money when it comes to disk tools. BootIt
was $40 but it makes all disk-related jobs simple.

For me it's been about partitions and disk images
since Win9x. Back then I used Drive Image and Partition
Magic to enable multi-booting and maintain disk images.

Every computer I build or repair gets the
same treatment: Install, clean it up, get rid of extra
boot or recovery partitions, add data partitions,
make a disk image of a basic, cleaned up system and
back that up to both a data partition and DVDs.
Also, I always have 2 disks installed in my own box,
in case one dies.

So every computer I have has multiple disk image
backups ready to go in if anything goes wrong. No
muss, no fuss, no boot- or restore- partition mess
to deal with. No dependency on hard disk life.

My Win9x images used to always fit on a CD. My
basic XP disk image fits on a CD. My full XP image, with all
software set up, easily fits on a DVD. My Win7 backups
easily fit on 2 DVDs.

As far as speed, I'm not concerned about that
because once I have disk images I only back up data.
I can do that quickly and easily while I'm doing other
things because I separate it into categories: 1) Timely
data that changes, like work receipts, email, etc. 2) Data
that rarely changes and only needs occasional backup:
graphics, video, software installers, docs for various
things, etc.
It all gets copied to both disks. The timely backup
data is all on one partition and I just write it periodically
to a DVD.

If you're backing up 100 GB that's not really a disk
image. That's just backup. And you need an extra disk
or large size USB stick to store it because 95% of
what you're backing up isn't necessary.

I think of it like a tractor trailer. The OS/software is the
tractor. The data is in the trailer. (Data partitions.) They're
two fundamentally different kinds of binaries. One's the
tools, the other's the content.
It makes no sense to have the two stuck together, in
the same way that if you're shipping a truck full of produce
you don't need to lose it all just because the engine breaks
down in the desert. Rather, you hook up a new tractor
front-end and keep driving.

But I know that some people deeply disagree with
that logic. Some people feel very strongly that data
partitions don't make sense....
There's no accounting for taste.



I think the big PC manufacturers would agree with you about data
partitions. I've seen Acer, PcSpecialist and HP brand new PCs quite
recently, and they all came with partitions C and D; the latter named
"Data", the former something like Acer (C).
Mind you, everything is on the C. The D is empty, like Old Mother
Hubbard's cupboard.

Ed

Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 10:54:04 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Mayayana:
I don't know why you think the HP partition is critical.
I always delete those. It's only useful if you don't have
backed up disk images of C.
That was my knee-jerk reaction: just delete it.

But when I do that, the system boots up throwing a dialog that reads
something like "Desktop.ini not found" and there's basically an empty desktop
- so I jumped to the assumption that the HP partition contained some files
used day-to-day.

Vanguard, Paul, John, and you have given me hope.

I had thrown in the towel and just re-imaged to an old 1TB backup drive - but
now I think I will re-visit the scene with the 2TB drive.

First thing I will try is looking for Macrium's Resize-Partition option.

If that doesn't happen, I'll move on to Paul's approach and, if that does not
work out, will start looking for a partition manager that will do the job.

I would recommend using VanguardLH's approach first. Grab a partition
manager and be amazed at how easy it is to do what you're trying to do.
My choice is the Minitool Partition Wizard, which he linked, but the
others should work as well.

No need to do another Macrium restore, and (sorry Paul!) no need to do
multiple restores. A partition manager will have you sorted within a few
minutes.


You realize they're not multiple restores.

You restore partitions one at a time.

Two partitions are restored first (since both are part of the
boot OS, Macrium will use its boot repair logic when these
are done as a pair).

Then the fourth partition is restored separately.

Then the third partition is restored separately (can be
resized as well, or do the resize step in Disk Management).

This operation also does not require "backup and restore"
and can be done with the Macrium "cloning" option. Clone
the first two partitions. Clone the fourth. Clone the third.

Since the original partitions are not in partition table
order, after the restore they will be in physical order.
If you follow the order in the original post, partition
table entries 1 2 3 4 point to partitions 1 2 3 4 spread
in that order across the disk.

Paul

Ed Cryer wrote:
[...]
I think the big PC manufacturers would agree with you about data
partitions. I've seen Acer, PcSpecialist and HP brand new PCs quite
recently, and they all came with partitions C and D; the latter named
"Data", the former something like Acer (C).
Mind you, everything is on the C. The D is empty, like Old Mother
Hubbard's cupboard.

Out of interest: In your example(s), are C and D on disk, or is C on a
SSD and D on a HDD? And are these PCs 'desktops' or (also) laptops?

FWIW, lately, I see mostly ads for laptops with only a SSD, often not
larger than 256GB, or with a SSD and a 1 or 2TB HDD.

A little earlier, I wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
[...]
I think the big PC manufacturers would agree with you about data
partitions. I've seen Acer, PcSpecialist and HP brand new PCs quite
recently, and they all came with partitions C and D; the latter named
"Data", the former something like Acer (C).
Mind you, everything is on the C. The D is empty, like Old Mother
Hubbard's cupboard.

Out of interest: In your example(s), are C and D on disk, or is C on a
SSD and D on a HDD? And are these PCs 'desktops' or (also) laptops?

Oops, typo:

Out of interest: In your example(s), are C and D one disk, or is C on a
SSD and D on a HDD? And are these PCs 'desktops' or (also) laptops?

FWIW, lately, I see mostly ads for laptops with only a SSD, often not
larger than 256GB, or with a SSD and a 1 or 2TB HDD.

On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 14:14:05 -0400, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 10:54:04 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Mayayana:
I don't know why you think the HP partition is critical.
I always delete those. It's only useful if you don't have
backed up disk images of C.
That was my knee-jerk reaction: just delete it.

But when I do that, the system boots up throwing a dialog that reads
something like "Desktop.ini not found" and there's basically an empty desktop
- so I jumped to the assumption that the HP partition contained some files
used day-to-day.

Vanguard, Paul, John, and you have given me hope.

I had thrown in the towel and just re-imaged to an old 1TB backup drive - but
now I think I will re-visit the scene with the 2TB drive.

First thing I will try is looking for Macrium's Resize-Partition option.

If that doesn't happen, I'll move on to Paul's approach and, if that does not
work out, will start looking for a partition manager that will do the job.

I would recommend using VanguardLH's approach first. Grab a partition
manager and be amazed at how easy it is to do what you're trying to do.
My choice is the Minitool Partition Wizard, which he linked, but the
others should work as well.

No need to do another Macrium restore, and (sorry Paul!) no need to do
multiple restores. A partition manager will have you sorted within a few
minutes.


You realize they're not multiple restores.

You restore partitions one at a time.

Right, I understood what you were saying. I'm just saying that that's
completely over the top because a partition manager is much better
suited to do the task.

Your method is for those corner cases where something goes wrong, but
that won't be the case for 99.99% of people. It's good to have in your
back pocket, just in case, but it's extremely unlikely that anyone will
have to pull it out and use it. Just grab a decent partition manager,
click slide click, and enjoy the rest of your day. Easy peasy.

--

Char Jackson

In message , Ed Cryer
writes:
Mayayana wrote:
"Ed Cryer" wrote

| I've just commissioned a new box of Win10 tricks. And I followed my
| usual course.
| Find fault with this for me - and give me nightmares.
[]
If you're backing up 100 GB that's not really a disk
image. That's just backup. And you need an extra disk
or large size USB stick to store it because 95% of
what you're backing up isn't necessary.
I think of it like a tractor trailer. The OS/software is the
tractor. The data is in the trailer. (Data partitions.) They're
two fundamentally different kinds of binaries. One's the
tools, the other's the content.

The other way - the default, that you and I aren't fond of - is an RV.

It makes no sense to have the two stuck together, in
the same way that if you're shipping a truck full of produce
you don't need to lose it all just because the engine breaks
down in the desert. Rather, you hook up a new tractor
front-end and keep driving.
But I know that some people deeply disagree with
that logic. Some people feel very strongly that data
partitions don't make sense....
There's no accounting for taste.


I think the big PC manufacturers would agree with you about data
partitions. I've seen Acer, PcSpecialist and HP brand new PCs quite
recently, and they all came with partitions C and D; the latter named
"Data", the former something like Acer (C).
Mind you, everything is on the C. The D is empty, like Old Mother
Hubbard's cupboard.

Ed

Except that (a) they _default_ to making C: and D: the same size (though
can usually be adjusted if the user knows to do so at first turn-on when
these are set up), and (b) there _really_ needs to me a change by both
Microsoft and software producers, to make things _default_ - on
installation - to use D: if it exists.

And (b) is not going to happen, is it )-: - though I don't know why,
other than very petty saving of effort.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Old people today - they don't know they're born! They should stay where they
belong: on the main stage at Glastonbury. - The Now Show, 2015-7-10&11

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Ed Cryer
writes:
Mayayana wrote:
"Ed Cryer" wrote

| I've just commissioned a new box of Win10 tricks. And I followed my
| usual course.
| Find fault with this for me - and give me nightmares.
[]
Â*Â*Â* If you're backing up 100 GB that's not really a disk
image. That's just backup. And you need an extra disk
or large size USB stick to store it because 95% of
what you're backing up isn't necessary.
Â*Â*Â* I think of it like a tractor trailer. The OS/software is the
tractor. The data is in the trailer. (Data partitions.) They're
two fundamentally different kinds of binaries. One's the
tools, the other's the content.

The other way - the default, that you and I aren't fond of - is an RV.

Â*Â* It makes no sense to have the two stuck together, in
the same way that if you're shipping a truck full of produce
you don't need to lose it all just because the engine breaks
down in the desert. Rather, you hook up a new tractor
front-end and keep driving.
Â*Â*Â*Â* But I know that some people deeply disagree with
that logic. Some people feel very strongly that data
partitions don't make sense....
Â*Â*Â* There's no accounting for taste.


I think the big PC manufacturers would agree with you about data
partitions. I've seen Acer, PcSpecialist and HP brand new PCs quite
recently, and they all came with partitions C and D; the latter named
"Data", the former something like Acer (C).
Mind you, everything is on the C. The D is empty, like Old Mother
Hubbard's cupboard.

Ed

Except that (a) they _default_ to making C: and D: the same size (though
can usually be adjusted if the user knows to do so at first turn-on when
these are set up), and (b) there _really_ needs to me a change by both
Microsoft and software producers, to make things _default_ - on
installation - to use D: if it exists.

And (b) is not going to happen, is it )-: - though I don't know why,
other than very petty saving of effort.

Yes. And that's why we've had people coming to us here. They form a plan
to create a C partition as small as possible, with the Data partition
holding Program Files etc. And they've screwed it up. They've done
things like simply cutting and pasting whole folders; and then the
system errors have accumulated until it overwhelms them.
Usually this involves installing a small-sized SSD.

Ed

On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:37:50 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Ed Cryer
writes:
Mayayana wrote:
"Ed Cryer" wrote

| I've just commissioned a new box of Win10 tricks. And I followed my
| usual course.
| Find fault with this for me - and give me nightmares.
[]
If you're backing up 100 GB that's not really a disk
image. That's just backup. And you need an extra disk
or large size USB stick to store it because 95% of
what you're backing up isn't necessary.
I think of it like a tractor trailer. The OS/software is the
tractor. The data is in the trailer. (Data partitions.) They're
two fundamentally different kinds of binaries. One's the
tools, the other's the content.

The other way - the default, that you and I aren't fond of - is an RV.

It makes no sense to have the two stuck together, in
the same way that if you're shipping a truck full of produce
you don't need to lose it all just because the engine breaks
down in the desert. Rather, you hook up a new tractor
front-end and keep driving.
But I know that some people deeply disagree with
that logic. Some people feel very strongly that data
partitions don't make sense....
There's no accounting for taste.


I think the big PC manufacturers would agree with you about data
partitions. I've seen Acer, PcSpecialist and HP brand new PCs quite
recently, and they all came with partitions C and D; the latter named
"Data", the former something like Acer (C).
Mind you, everything is on the C. The D is empty, like Old Mother
Hubbard's cupboard.

Ed

Except that (a) they _default_ to making C: and D: the same size (though
can usually be adjusted if the user knows to do so at first turn-on when
these are set up),

It's equally easy to resize partitions later, or as often as required.

and (b) there _really_ needs to me a change by both
Microsoft and software producers, to make things _default_ - on
installation - to use D: if it exists.

And (b) is not going to happen, is it )-: - though I don't know why,
other than very petty saving of effort.


--

Char Jackson

Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 14:14:05 -0400, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 10:54:04 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Mayayana:
I don't know why you think the HP partition is critical.
I always delete those. It's only useful if you don't have
backed up disk images of C.
That was my knee-jerk reaction: just delete it.

But when I do that, the system boots up throwing a dialog that reads
something like "Desktop.ini not found" and there's basically an empty desktop
- so I jumped to the assumption that the HP partition contained some files
used day-to-day.

Vanguard, Paul, John, and you have given me hope.

I had thrown in the towel and just re-imaged to an old 1TB backup drive - but
now I think I will re-visit the scene with the 2TB drive.

First thing I will try is looking for Macrium's Resize-Partition option.

If that doesn't happen, I'll move on to Paul's approach and, if that does not
work out, will start looking for a partition manager that will do the job.
I would recommend using VanguardLH's approach first. Grab a partition
manager and be amazed at how easy it is to do what you're trying to do.
My choice is the Minitool Partition Wizard, which he linked, but the
others should work as well.

No need to do another Macrium restore, and (sorry Paul!) no need to do
multiple restores. A partition manager will have you sorted within a few
minutes.

You realize they're not multiple restores.

You restore partitions one at a time.

Right, I understood what you were saying. I'm just saying that that's
completely over the top because a partition manager is much better
suited to do the task.

Your method is for those corner cases where something goes wrong, but
that won't be the case for 99.99% of people. It's good to have in your
back pocket, just in case, but it's extremely unlikely that anyone will
have to pull it out and use it. Just grab a decent partition manager,
click slide click, and enjoy the rest of your day. Easy peasy.


My method is SUPERIOR.

Data movement occurs ONCE.

It goes from ONE DISK TO THE OTHER.
NO "HEAD SLAP".

Now, knock it off.

Paul

On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 19:52:53 -0400, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 14:14:05 -0400, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 10:54:04 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Mayayana:
I don't know why you think the HP partition is critical.
I always delete those. It's only useful if you don't have
backed up disk images of C.
That was my knee-jerk reaction: just delete it.

But when I do that, the system boots up throwing a dialog that reads
something like "Desktop.ini not found" and there's basically an empty desktop
- so I jumped to the assumption that the HP partition contained some files
used day-to-day.

Vanguard, Paul, John, and you have given me hope.

I had thrown in the towel and just re-imaged to an old 1TB backup drive - but
now I think I will re-visit the scene with the 2TB drive.

First thing I will try is looking for Macrium's Resize-Partition option.

If that doesn't happen, I'll move on to Paul's approach and, if that does not
work out, will start looking for a partition manager that will do the job.
I would recommend using VanguardLH's approach first. Grab a partition
manager and be amazed at how easy it is to do what you're trying to do.
My choice is the Minitool Partition Wizard, which he linked, but the
others should work as well.

No need to do another Macrium restore, and (sorry Paul!) no need to do
multiple restores. A partition manager will have you sorted within a few
minutes.

You realize they're not multiple restores.

You restore partitions one at a time.

Right, I understood what you were saying. I'm just saying that that's
completely over the top because a partition manager is much better
suited to do the task.

Your method is for those corner cases where something goes wrong, but
that won't be the case for 99.99% of people. It's good to have in your
back pocket, just in case, but it's extremely unlikely that anyone will
have to pull it out and use it. Just grab a decent partition manager,
click slide click, and enjoy the rest of your day. Easy peasy.


My method is SUPERIOR.

Actually, IT'S NOT. When you introduce additional complexity to a task,
to any task, you add risk. This is someone's data at stake, so added
risk is something that should be avoided.

If you stand by your method, that's fine. I can respect that, but I
surely wouldn't propose it as a general recipe for the current
situation. It has way too many unnecessary steps.

Now, knock it off.

I'm not sure what that refers to.

--

Char Jackson

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote

| The situation acts like there is a file (boot block?) somewhere that
points
| to Partition 0, Partition 1, Partition 2, and so-forth - and, when
partitions
| are moved around without changing that file, Bad Things happen.

Expanding a bit for clarity, yes, the boot needs to
be in accord with the partitions, whether you
eliminate the system partition and/or the restore
partition or not.

In Win7 the boot record, BCD, is a binary file that
needs an editor, but as an example, here's the XP
version, boot.ini:

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOW S
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Micro soft Windows XP
Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=AlwaysOff /usepmtimer

That's my current boot.ini, in C:\
It points to the first disk (0) first partition (1).
If I want to put another partition in front I
need to change 1 to 2. Likewise, if you have a
restore partition then moving it's position may
prevent a restore happening unless you manually
set that partition active at boot.

So you need to know about that, but as long as
you know there's no problem moving things around.

It seems silly to me to go to this trouble and still
leave those 2 junk partitions in place, but as others
have said, you certainly can do it. A decent disk
utility can "slide" partitions to a different position and
can also resize them. Though I'm not sure of the
wisdom of picking among freebies to do that. So
you could, say, slide the HP partition all the way to
the back and enlarge DATA. You can also just
make a partition behind HP. But if you add a
partition in front of HP, or eliminate the system
partition, then you'll need to edit the boot.

Mayayana wrote:


It seems silly to me to go to this trouble and still
leave those 2 junk partitions in place

That all depends on your sense of adventure.

I have disks here, crying out to be fixed. But
since there is no need of freeing up resources,
I leave the materials there. A couple 500MB partitions
aren't going to hurt anything.

On my laptop, I needed to free up some partitions,
as part of transitioning from OEM Windows 7, to
a Microsoft disc install of Windows 7. So I put the
extra effort into finding out how the stuff was
wired, and whether it was safe to dismantle what
I was seeing.

"How to Remove the Windows "System Reserved" Partition"

https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=409

Some of the newer GPT laptop machines, say a machine
with a 1TB disk and six partitions, you have
to wonder what space aliens dreamed those up.
As 1TB is too small to really need GPT, and
it usually isn't possible to determine exactly
what each of the partitions is for. Sure, you
might recognize System Reserved and HP Recovery
for what they are, but then you find a couple more
small ones that make you wonder "what else is there?".
How can you delete those, if they defy identification ?
You can use a test plan, like boot and see if Windows
boots OK, but there's a few other conditions you should
be checking for, before congratulating yourself. It's
much better to find a consensus somewhere as to
what they're for, instead of attempting to do your
own test plan. You might miss something.

For the simpler cases, where the partition label
gives the game away, sure, try your hand at cleanup.

I only learn how this stuff works, by breaking stuff.
The lesson leaves more of an impression that way.

Paul

"Paul" wrote

| Mayayana wrote:
|
|
| It seems silly to me to go to this trouble and still
| leave those 2 junk partitions in place
|
| That all depends on your sense of adventure.
|
And sense of orderliness.

I especially like to get rid of the system partition
because I don't want a pointless, dangling dependency
for disk images. And the restore partition is pointless
once a disk image backup is made.

I can see why many people don't want to bother.
When I decide to deal with a new (to me) computer
I want to be thorough and do the job thoroughly so
that I don't need to mess with it again. Which
means leaving a new install on C drive, with data
partitions, and disk images in case the OS and/or
disk goes south.

I don't like to leave tools on the kitchen table or
clothes on the floor. I don't like an 8" deep sea of
coffee cups on the back seat floor of my truck.
But that's just me.

| Some of the newer GPT laptop machines, say a machine
| with a 1TB disk and six partitions

I think I've seen 3 extra partitions. I think a
Dell laptop had some kind of silly utilities partition.
But I don't see any big risk in dumping that. In fact,
that particular laptop had a messed up restore
partition. There was something like a.exe that was
supposed to kick off b.exe but didn't work. It took
me all day to figure out that the restore would work
if I booted a CD and then ran b.exe. It was as
though someone had deliberately broken the restore
function.
To me that's a good example of why to just clean
the whole thing up and be sure that it's working
and backed up.

As long as C is made whole and bootable, then imaged,
I don't see any reason to leave the rest. The rest is
meant for people who are not handy and, at best,
may be able to handle triggering a factory restore
if they need to... but weren't handy enough to
make some restore DVDs when they got the computer.

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:51:59 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

I especially like to get rid of the system partition
because I don't want a pointless, dangling dependency
for disk images. And the restore partition is pointless
once a disk image backup is made.

Unless you want to sell the computer, then you can use the restore
partition.

---
Ignore the following - it's spammers for spambot fodder.