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#31
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
Steve Hayes wrote:
Mayayana wrote: I especially like to get rid of the system partition because I don't want a pointless, dangling dependency for disk images. And the restore partition is pointless once a disk image backup is made. Unless you want to sell the computer, then you can use the restore partition. Create an image the moment you get it. The imaged OS partition is the same as the one the recovery image/setup will create. Since you have your own image (and NOT on the same HDD that can die taking both the OS partition and recovery partition), you don't need to waste space or add confusion with a recovery partition. If you want to resell the computer with exactly the same setup, well, include ALL partitions in an image backup of the initial/factory-time disk state. Too often the recovery "image" is a customized setup program. You end up reinstalling the OS instead of restoring an image. Setup takes a lot longer than just a reimage. Create your own image backup. Then you don't have to hope the recovery partition still exists, that it still contains the recovery program, and that the factory-time recovery succeeds. --- Not a valid signature delimiter line, and you know it! Ignore the following - it's spammers for spambot fodder. bunch of email address Ah, so you didn't reply to help or discuss. You just wanted to spam here to Joe Job some e-mail addresses. Stalkers are as much trolls as those who they stalk. |
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#32
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image:Partitions?
VanguardLH wrote:
Steve Hayes wrote: Mayayana wrote: I especially like to get rid of the system partition because I don't want a pointless, dangling dependency for disk images. And the restore partition is pointless once a disk image backup is made. Unless you want to sell the computer, then you can use the restore partition. Create an image the moment you get it. The imaged OS partition is the same as the one the recovery image/setup will create. Since you have your own image (and NOT on the same HDD that can die taking both the OS partition and recovery partition), you don't need to waste space or add confusion with a recovery partition. If you want to resell the computer with exactly the same setup, well, include ALL partitions in an image backup of the initial/factory-time disk state. Too often the recovery "image" is a customized setup program. You end up reinstalling the OS instead of restoring an image. Setup takes a lot longer than just a reimage. Create your own image backup. Then you don't have to hope the recovery partition still exists, that it still contains the recovery program, and that the factory-time recovery succeeds. --- Not a valid signature delimiter line, and you know it! Ignore the following - it's spammers for spambot fodder. bunch of email address Ah, so you didn't reply to help or discuss. You just wanted to spam here to Joe Job some e-mail addresses. Stalkers are as much trolls as those who they stalk. When you set up a brand new OEM PC, it takes you through account creation before you can do anything (even install Macrium). Your solution would restore that account. Ed |
#33
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
"Ed Cryer" wrote
| When you set up a brand new OEM PC, it takes you through account | creation before you can do anything (even install Macrium). | Your solution would restore that account. | Does anyone actually create accounts? I never have. I don't have any computers with user logon and never have. And how many people actually want to give away their computer with an official HP logo on the desktop? That's like giving away pans or clothes without washing them first. The logo is merely an unsightly ad. If someone really wants to do that because they view an HP logo as an anti-cootie guarantee, then they can make restore DVDs. There's still no need to leave the restore partition. If it were me and I were giving away the computer, I'd do a basic cleanup of ads and shovelware before giving it away. Then I'd make a disk image of that. I do the same for friends whose computers are messed up: Do a factory restore, clean that up, then set up basic, default programs, like Firefox, Thunderbird and IrfanView. I usually also try to set them up with some kind of basic, free AV. In other words, I maximize security, privacy and functionality as much as possible for people who don't know how to do it for themselves. Some people might say, "But what if they want Chrome?" In my experience most people don't know about software programs. They don't like Chrome or Edge. They get tricked into Chrome or Edge. I try to install the most basic, useful and non-sleazy software to get people started, knowing that they're unlikely to ever change anything once I give them back their computer. Chrome is out because it's Google spyware. I manage browser settings for the same reason. The typical person is getting Google as default search in a browser with a sneaky "awesome bar" that sends every URL to Google. People have actually been de-educated so that they get to Sears.com by typing Sears and going to Google, no longer understanding that Sears has a dedicated URL. So Google gets a full report of their online activity. No wonder they're willing to pay $1 per install to be the default search engine. (Google is currently paying about $3B/tear to Apple alone, just to be the default search on Safari.) All of that is to say that a typical computer these days is a minefield of sleaze that most people don't know how to clean up. Most people don't even know it's happening. People tend to be trusting about things they don't understand. That's a big part of Microsoft getting away with their claim that by using Windows you're operating on their private property, subject to their terms. Most people will just take that claim at face value. The last time my very elderly father had a computer he got angry because it came with MS Office but after 3 months they wanted him to pay for it. Those cheats! It was supposed to come with the computer! Of course it probably said in the fine print on the case that it was a 3-month *trial*, but companies like MS depend on customers misunderstanding. Otherwise there wouldn't be big, bright stickers with tiny fine print on computer cases. I can still remember my own view before I got a computer. I thought the people at Microsoft were scientists in lab coats. The Intel ads helped to create that image. As did Symantec. Who wouldn't trust Albert Einstein or Jonas Salk to set up their computer? That's what people are up against. Flim flam artists using big words and pretending to be Jonas Salk. And with an OEM box it's coming from both sides. The OEM company is pretending they built the computer while companies buy access to install their shovelware. The whole thing is designed to milk the customer. And that includes the factory restore partition. Most people never realize it's there. Something goes wrong and they throw away their computer. Microsoft and the OEMs knew what they were doing in eliminating restore disks. It wasn't to save 50 cents. It was part of a well-planned, longterm scam to acclimate people to the idea that the OS is part of the hardware. |
#34
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image:Partitions?
Mayayana wrote:
"Ed Cryer" wrote | When you set up a brand new OEM PC, it takes you through account | creation before you can do anything (even install Macrium). | Your solution would restore that account. | Does anyone actually create accounts? I never have. I don't have any computers with user logon and never have. And how many people actually want to give away their computer with an official HP logo on the desktop? That's like giving away pans or clothes without washing them first. The logo is merely an unsightly ad. If someone really wants to do that because they view an HP logo as an anti-cootie guarantee, then they can make restore DVDs. There's still no need to leave the restore partition. If it were me and I were giving away the computer, I'd do a basic cleanup of ads and shovelware before giving it away. Then I'd make a disk image of that. I do the same for friends whose computers are messed up: Do a factory restore, clean that up, then set up basic, default programs, like Firefox, Thunderbird and IrfanView. I usually also try to set them up with some kind of basic, free AV. In other words, I maximize security, privacy and functionality as much as possible for people who don't know how to do it for themselves. Some people might say, "But what if they want Chrome?" In my experience most people don't know about software programs. They don't like Chrome or Edge. They get tricked into Chrome or Edge. I try to install the most basic, useful and non-sleazy software to get people started, knowing that they're unlikely to ever change anything once I give them back their computer. Chrome is out because it's Google spyware. I manage browser settings for the same reason. The typical person is getting Google as default search in a browser with a sneaky "awesome bar" that sends every URL to Google. People have actually been de-educated so that they get to Sears.com by typing Sears and going to Google, no longer understanding that Sears has a dedicated URL. So Google gets a full report of their online activity. No wonder they're willing to pay $1 per install to be the default search engine. (Google is currently paying about $3B/tear to Apple alone, just to be the default search on Safari.) All of that is to say that a typical computer these days is a minefield of sleaze that most people don't know how to clean up. Most people don't even know it's happening. People tend to be trusting about things they don't understand. That's a big part of Microsoft getting away with their claim that by using Windows you're operating on their private property, subject to their terms. Most people will just take that claim at face value. The last time my very elderly father had a computer he got angry because it came with MS Office but after 3 months they wanted him to pay for it. Those cheats! It was supposed to come with the computer! Of course it probably said in the fine print on the case that it was a 3-month *trial*, but companies like MS depend on customers misunderstanding. Otherwise there wouldn't be big, bright stickers with tiny fine print on computer cases. I can still remember my own view before I got a computer. I thought the people at Microsoft were scientists in lab coats. The Intel ads helped to create that image. As did Symantec. Who wouldn't trust Albert Einstein or Jonas Salk to set up their computer? That's what people are up against. Flim flam artists using big words and pretending to be Jonas Salk. And with an OEM box it's coming from both sides. The OEM company is pretending they built the computer while companies buy access to install their shovelware. The whole thing is designed to milk the customer. And that includes the factory restore partition. Most people never realize it's there. Something goes wrong and they throw away their computer. Microsoft and the OEMs knew what they were doing in eliminating restore disks. It wasn't to save 50 cents. It was part of a well-planned, longterm scam to acclimate people to the idea that the OS is part of the hardware. None of which will get a "factory restore"; something that is handled by software that comes with the OEM machine; HP Recovery Management, Acer Recovery M.... etc. And how does that work? It resets the whole HD from the Recovery Partition. Now, wait a minute. You're like me. You have an understanding of these devilish things that most don't. You can think way outside the box, take advantage of your broader insight, and personalise everything to your heart's content. One thing I didn't read in your tirade was this situation, one that applies to this very PC I'm typing on now. The hardware has been radically updated since it came from the factory, and a factory reset would battle with that; DVD changed to Bluray, large SSD replaced HD, more RAM; drivers and updated progs. A factory-reset is something I'd never do. But how am I going to pass my higher insight on to the millions who have PCs? How can I instill in them all the competence I've acquired professionally? While I was programming computers for a living, others were teaching kids, running shops, selling insurance. And those millions need a simple road-map. Those millions are the ones MS have in mind when they plan things like forced OS updates and forced AV updates. And a "factory reset" comes under the heading of these things. It's designed and intended to help "the average user". Ed |
#35
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
"Ed Cryer" wrote
| None of which will get a "factory restore"; something that is handled by | software that comes with the OEM machine; I already explained that. You have two options (assuming for some strange reason you actually want a "pure" factory restore): 1) Do a restore and then make a disk image. I'm not talking about a backup by Macrium or some such. I'm talking about an actual image of C drive. 2) Create restore DVDs. Don't all newer computers have the option to create a DVD to do factory restore? That was my understanding. Otherwise your ability to keep using the machine depends on the survival of your hard disk, which is a crazy risk to take. A third option is to download an ISO from MS and use your OEM key with it. I did that recently with a Win8 laptop that had a failed hard disk. I had to jump through some hoops to get the ISO, but I got it, it's legal, and it validated just fine. |
#36
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
In message , Ed Cryer
writes: [] When you set up a brand new OEM PC, it takes you through account creation before you can do anything (even install Macrium). Your solution would restore that account. Ed What if you don't install Macrium, but use a Macrium boot CD that you made earlier on another machine: if you image a brand new OEM PC (imaging all "partitions" that are there), and later restore from that image, will the OEM PC appear as at initial setup (e. g. ask you to choose partition sizes or whatever initial setup does)? (The only time I've ever used the _installed_ version of Macrium was to make the CD in the first place [I think, other than just copying a CD you'd made already, you _have_ to run the software to make the CD]; when making images, I always boot from the CD. I haven't even installed Macrium on this PC.) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf While no one was paying attention, weather reports became accurate and the news became fiction. Did not see that coming. - Scott Adams, 2015 |
#37
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image:Partitions?
On 6/21/2018 2:57 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Ed Cryer" wrote | None of which will get a "factory restore"; something that is handled by | software that comes with the OEM machine; I already explained that. You have two options (assuming for some strange reason you actually want a "pure" factory restore): 1) Do a restore and then make a disk image. I'm not talking about a backup by Macrium or some such. I'm talking about an actual image of C drive. Sounds like you might not be familiar with the fact that Macrium is the clear favorite around the Windows groups for making disk (volume) images. When you talk about making an image, most people will reach for their installed copy of Macrium Reflect Free. 2) Create restore DVDs. Don't all newer computers have the option to create a DVD to do factory restore? That was my understanding. Otherwise your ability to keep using the machine depends on the survival of your hard disk, which is a crazy risk to take. Ahem, see your 3rd option. ;-) A third option is to download an ISO from MS and use your OEM key with it. I did that recently with a Win8 laptop that had a failed hard disk. I had to jump through some hoops to get the ISO, but I got it, it's legal, and it validated just fine. Everyone should have an image on hand, just in case, just like everyone should have an ISO on hand, just in case. Not everyone does, of course. |
#38
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image:Partitions?
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Ed Cryer writes: [] When you set up a brand new OEM PC, it takes you through account creation before you can do anything (even install Macrium). Your solution would restore that account. Ed What if you don't install Macrium, but use a Macrium boot CD that you made earlier on another machine: if you image a brand new OEM PC (imaging all "partitions" that are there), and later restore from that image, will the OEM PC appear as at initial setup (e. g. ask you to choose partition sizes or whatever initial setup does)? (The only time I've ever used the _installed_ version of Macrium was to make the CD in the first place [I think, other than just copying a CD you'd made already, you _have_ to run the software to make the CD]; when making images, I always boot from the CD. I haven't even installed Macrium on this PC.) I really don't know if that would work. Switch on your new OEM PC and it goes straight into its Windows setup; takes all your details and preferences, trundles away, gives you control within the account it's created. Your suggestion means that you'd have to switch on your new OEM PC, change boot sequence, reboot with Macrium disc in. I suppose that if that worked, then yes, you could image the pristine disc. But I don't know if the way the OEM has set it up would allow it. Anyway, I have another suggestion. Do full setup; do whatever else you want to do. Load all your stuff. And then, whenever you want, take an image of just the Recovery partition. Ed |
#39
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
"bounder" wrote
| | 1) Do a restore and then make a disk image. I'm | not talking about a backup by Macrium or some such. | I'm talking about an actual image of C drive. | | Sounds like you might not be familiar with the fact that Macrium is the | clear favorite around the Windows groups for making disk (volume) | images. When you talk about making an image, most people will reach for | their installed copy of Macrium Reflect Free. | See the new posts from John and Ed. Ed seems to think Macrium is for backup rather than imaging. Not everyone knows the difference or agrees on what it is. I've never used Macrium, so I don't know what it can or can't do. I'm just trying to clarify that any system can be imaged. (And as you said, should be.) That seems to be another issue that confuses things. Originally there was the idea of disk images. Then people started making images with incremental updating, which is not really a case of using disk images. It's just a complicated method of backup. I get the impression that these days most people who think they're making disk images are actually just using a backup program -- like a homemade version of System Restore. |
#40
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
Ed Cryer wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message , Ed Cryer writes: [] When you set up a brand new OEM PC, it takes you through account creation before you can do anything (even install Macrium). Your solution would restore that account. Ed What if you don't install Macrium, but use a Macrium boot CD that you made earlier on another machine: if you image a brand new OEM PC (imaging all "partitions" that are there), and later restore from that image, will the OEM PC appear as at initial setup (e. g. ask you to choose partition sizes or whatever initial setup does)? (The only time I've ever used the _installed_ version of Macrium was to make the CD in the first place [I think, other than just copying a CD you'd made already, you _have_ to run the software to make the CD]; when making images, I always boot from the CD. I haven't even installed Macrium on this PC.) I really don't know if that would work. Switch on your new OEM PC and it goes straight into its Windows setup; takes all your details and preferences, trundles away, gives you control within the account it's created. Your suggestion means that you'd have to switch on your new OEM PC, change boot sequence, reboot with Macrium disc in. I suppose that if that worked, then yes, you could image the pristine disc. But I don't know if the way the OEM has set it up would allow it. Anyway, I have another suggestion. Do full setup; do whatever else you want to do. Load all your stuff. And then, whenever you want, take an image of just the Recovery partition. Ed Keywords: sysprep generalize sealing oobe (Out Of the Box Experience) It's possible to put an OS back into a factory state, if you're an IT guy, loaded WADK onto your technician machine and worked on the C: image. I think you can load WADK onto the C: of the technician machine, then bring over a laptop drive and put it back in the OOBE state. I've never done any of this stuff, so can't help with details. If I have my factory restore partition, my DVD set I made when the machine was new, my Macrium backup early in the life of the product, I probably no longer care about the issue. As I have "belt and suspenders", and couldn't give a damn about a 12GB partition still being there. My assumption is, I will drop dead, and if someone picks up the laptop, and sees the factory restore, they can prepare the machine for easy disposal. Now, if it was a tablet with eMMC, that would be an entirely different handling case. One of the reasons I don't own a tablet, is I "don't want to learn how to maintain a tablet". Desktops are just too easy. Paul |
#41
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
In message , bounder
writes: On 6/21/2018 2:57 PM, Mayayana wrote: "Ed Cryer" wrote | None of which will get a "factory restore"; something that is |handled by | software that comes with the OEM machine; I already explained that. You have two options (assuming for some strange reason you actually want a "pure" factory restore): 1) Do a restore and then make a disk image. I'm not talking about a backup by Macrium or some such. I'm talking about an actual image of C drive. Sounds like you might not be familiar with the fact that Macrium is the clear favorite around the Windows groups for making disk (volume) images. When you talk about making an image, most people will reach for their installed copy of Macrium Reflect Free. [] Yes, that does seem to be most people's option. I reach for my Macrium boot CD. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf .... she has never contracted A-listeria or developed airs and graces. Kathy Lette on Kylie, RT 2014/1/11-17 |
#42
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
In message , Ed Cryer
writes: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message , Ed Cryer writes: [] When you set up a brand new OEM PC, it takes you through account creation before you can do anything (even install Macrium). Your solution would restore that account. Ed What if you don't install Macrium, but use a Macrium boot CD that you made earlier on another machine: if you image a brand new OEM PC [] Your suggestion means that you'd have to switch on your new OEM PC, change boot sequence, reboot with Macrium disc in. Ah, you may be right: I was assuming that new machines defaulted to boot-from-CD-if-there's-one-there; I may be well wrong about that. (And yes, you would have to turn it on briefly to use the eject button so you could actually put the CD in, unless you used the paperclip hole.) I suppose that if that worked, then yes, you could image the pristine disc. But I don't know if the way the OEM has set it up would allow it. Me neither. Anyway, I have another suggestion. Do full setup; do whatever else you want to do. Load all your stuff. And then, whenever you want, take an image of just the Recovery partition. That's the more normal situation. I was thinking about people who might want to sell/give away PCs in "as new" condition; I can't see me ever doing that (in much the same way as I run my cars into the ground, rather than selling them). Ed John -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf .... she has never contracted A-listeria or developed airs and graces. Kathy Lette on Kylie, RT 2014/1/11-17 |
#43
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
In message , Mayayana
writes: "bounder" wrote | | 1) Do a restore and then make a disk image. I'm | not talking about a backup by Macrium or some such. | I'm talking about an actual image of C drive. | | Sounds like you might not be familiar with the fact that Macrium is the | clear favorite around the Windows groups for making disk (volume) | images. When you talk about making an image, most people will reach for | their installed copy of Macrium Reflect Free. | See the new posts from John and Ed. Ed seems to think Macrium is for backup rather than imaging. Not everyone knows the difference or agrees on what it is. I've never used Macrium, so I don't know what it can or can't do. I'm just trying to clarify that any system can be imaged. (And as you said, should be.) Macrium Reflect Free is basically an imaging tool (that can also, obviously, restore from those images, if you use the CD you can make from it). You pick which partitions - including hidden ones - and it makes a single file (of extension .mrimg - Macrium Reflect Image) from them; by default, only the parts that actually have data on, so the image file is smaller than the partitions being imaged. (It also can - does by default - do some compression too.) When such an image is restored to a new disc, the partitions, boot sector, etc., are restored as they were, i. e. the restored disc is bootable. (At least, that's my experience imaging all but my data partition; I don't know what it does if you "image" only a data partition. I don't use it for that, I use synctoy.) That seems to be another issue that confuses things. Originally there was the idea of disk images. Then people started making images with incremental updating, which is not really a case of using disk images. It's just a complicated method of backup. Well, the initial one may be an image as you and I understand the term. I get the impression that these days most people who think they're making disk images are actually just using a backup program -- like a homemade version of System Restore. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf .... she has never contracted A-listeria or developed airs and graces. Kathy Lette on Kylie, RT 2014/1/11-17 |
#44
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
In message , Paul
writes: [] If I have my factory restore partition, my DVD set I made when the machine was new, my Macrium backup early in the life of the product, I probably no longer care about the issue. As I have "belt and suspenders", and couldn't give a damn about a 12GB partition still being there. My assumption is, I will drop dead, and if someone picks up the laptop, and sees the factory restore, they can prepare the machine for easy disposal. Now, if it was a tablet with eMMC, that would be an entirely different handling case. One of the reasons I don't own a tablet, is I "don't want to learn how to maintain a tablet". Desktops are just too easy. Well, and laptops. Like you, I haven't learnt how to play with tablets yet. (Unless you count a smartphone, and I _really_ haven't learnt how to do much with that either.) Paul John -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf .... she has never contracted A-listeria or developed airs and graces. Kathy Lette on Kylie, RT 2014/1/11-17 |
#45
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 23:09:59 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote: Macrium Reflect Free is basically an imaging tool (that can also, obviously, restore from those images, if you use the CD you can make from it). You pick which partitions - including hidden ones - and it makes a single file (of extension .mrimg - Macrium Reflect Image) from them; by default, only the parts that actually have data on, so the image file is smaller than the partitions being imaged. (It also can - does by default - do some compression too.) When such an image is restored to a new disc, the partitions, boot sector, etc., are restored as they were, i. e. the restored disc is bootable. For completeness of the discussion, it's also a disk cloning tool. For every disk/volume/partition (they play a bit loose with the terminology), they provide the option to "Image this disk..." or to "Clone this disk...". For a disk with multiple volumes, you can select all volumes or a lesser number. -- Char Jackson |
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